March 11, 2008
Florida Dems May Get A Recount
Politico: Plan To Redo Primary Using Mail-In Ballots Moves Forward
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Photo
In this photo provided by CBS, Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., appears on the CBS's "Face the Nation" in Washington, Sunday, March 9, 2008. Nelson has been a driving force behind Florida's mail-in plan. (AP Photo/CBS Face the Nation)
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Democratic Campaign Trail
Notable events in the race for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination.
Florida Democrats were moving forward Monday with a plan to redo their presidential primary using privately-funded mail-in ballots, a key state party official said, even though some congressional and party leaders had yet to sign on to the idea.
“We’re huddling with state brass now,” the official said. “The spotlight will be on us. We will have a detailed plan.”
The official said the state party expected both the Clinton and Obama campaigns to eventually agree to the plan.
“They’ve seen the writing on the wall and they realize this is something they need to get behind,” the official said. “Both campaigns have reacted favorably to the idea so far.”
Both Florida and Michigan have been studying ways to hold re-votes now that the Democratic contest remains so close and their states could determine the winner. The states’ previous primaries were held earlier in the election season than party rules allowed, prompting the Democratic National Committee not to count their delegates.
The plan would be funded with money raised by the Florida Democratic Party and possibly include the help of the campaigns, the official said. The plan would also provide for the possibility of voting auditors and third parties to provide independent accountability.
The plan could eventually call on the state to play an active role in the mail-in primary, something Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Florida, has been actively pushing.
Under the plan now being considered, Florida voters would receive mail-in ballots, with return postage, in mid-May and possibly face a late May or early June deadline for returning them, the state official said. Before it could be implemented, the mail-in plan would need to be voted on by the state party before heading to the Democratic National Committee for final approval, the state party official said.
The DNC would then conduct a 30-day public comment period before allowing the state party to move forward. If approved, the state party would then need at least three weeks to verify the mailing addresses of the 4 million Democrats who reside in the state before ballots could be sent.
Florida officials had been studying alternate voting methods well before the current controversy erupted, affording them a familiarity with mail-in voting even though the state does not typically conduct its primaries by that method.
Michigan Sen. Carl Levin suggested on ABC’s “This Week” on Sunday that the mail-in option might work for Michigan as well.
A spokesman for Nelson (D-Fla.), a driving force behind Florida’s mail-in plan, said the senator saw no other options to allow Florida voters a say in the nominating process.
“He’s pretty much wedded to having the state do this with the cost going to the state party,” said Nelson spokesman Dan McLaughlin. “We realize there are some significant obstacles but we also realize there’s no recourse.”
Florida Rep. Alcee Hastings (D) was amenable to the plan, if it could be funded.
“Look, if we can find the money and the voters want it, then I'm open to being convinced that this is the best course of action,” he said.
Another Florida representative, however, had grave concerns about mail-in ballots. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D) said the plan would disenfranchise many voters, especially those in low income areas.
“I really don’t think it’s a good idea,” she said. “It’s fraught with problems and now is not the time to be experimenting when we’re talking about stakes this high…We still have very raw nerves from the 2000 recount.”
Plans for revotes in Florida and Michigan have stoked pointed divisions not only in the states themselves but nationwide.
Rep. Mike Doyle (D-Pa.), an uncommitted superdelegate from the Pittsburgh area, enthusiastically supported revotes.
"They've got to redo that,” Doyle said. “There's no way we can go to Denver (the site of the Democratic National Convention) without those states having a say. Those are two huge states you're talking about. You can't disenfranchise those voters. "
But Rep. Jason Altmire, whose district lies next to Doyle’s, said he was against it.
“I don’t agree with that. A decision was made to not play by the rules. If they just waited, as Pennsylvania did, they would be fine. You cannot change the rules in the middle of the game.”
As the Democratic nominating process dragged on with ever more complexity and, in some cases, acrimony, one Democrat called on DNC Chairman Howard Dean to convene a convene a group of party elders to short-circuit the process and help decide a nominee.
“The road to Denver, as it currently exists, is dotted with intra-party explosive devices (IEDs) with the potential to blow away our party's very real chance to capture the White House,” wrote Missouri Rep. Emanuel Cleaver to Dean Thursday. “The Michigan and Florida predicament ... could explode at the convention and cause more casualties than we could imagine.”
By Amie Parnes and Josephine Hearn
Copyright 2008 POLITICO
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See all 77 CommentsHOWEVER - the person or persons responsible in Florida for moving their primary ahead - violating DNC rules - and causing this whole mess - should be PUNISHED. How DARE they cause this problem - Florida is just a state like any other - it isn''t a special case, except in that it''s been a special PROBLEM case the last few elections.
PUNISH THOSE INDIVIDUALS RESPONSIBLE FOR MOVING FLORIDA''S PRIMARY AHEAD OF DNC RULES. And ... have your primary normally now so we know how your state votes.
I believe in a re-vote, but only for those who voted the first time. The lazy ones and those who thought "What''s the point" gave up their right the first "GO-round".
If the Dems don''t wake up and get themselves together, we''ll have 4 more Pub years to deal with. As an Indie, I''ll be watching closely. Anything shady and I''ll vote the other way.
And you are right,IRLiberal, punish those responsible to prevent more of the same
Both candidates signed an agreement not to campaign in Florida and Michigan because the two states violated the rules. Hillary was the only name on the ballot in Michigan. This is ridiculous. A mail in Florida ballot would be ripe for the kind of corrupt manipulation that we''ve seen in Florida before.
2. The Republican Natl Committe(RNC) or Florida state republicans should be required to pay, or a lawsuit taken against them to pay for any future recount.
3. The mail-in recount will probably be better than nothing. But, simply giving the delegates to Senator Clinton CANNOT be done, when the other candidates didn''t campaign there in observance of the rule violation by Florida state democrats.
4. Howard Dean is correct in the way he''s handled this so far---state delegations should be rewarded for breaking known party rules! Stick to your guns, Mr.Dean!
4. Howard Dean is correct in the way he''''s handled this so far---state delegations should NOT be rewarded for breaking known party rules! Stick to your guns, Mr.Dean!
Sorry about that!
Since the primary date in Florida was set by the Republican controlled legislature, and signed by the Republican Governor, I guess they have to arrest them all? Not that it would bother me in the least, but that''s not going to happen! I don''t think the party should have to pay for a new election! The legislature and governor caused this mess, let them pay for it! Then , next time they are up for re-election, the Democrats can run ads reminding voters of how much money it cost to hold another election, due to the fact the Republican''s screwed up!
2. I think federal election law should be amended to prevent this ability to scuttle or interfer with the other parties'' primary!
http://thepage.time.com/obama-foreign-policy-memo/
They can''t do anything correctly. Now they want to do it all again. Dolts.
The Republican''s method of winner take all just steam rolls the process and disenfranchises anyone who doesn''t side with the majority.
Caucus votes are totally manipulated that is why Obama won because of the Caucus votes but the real thing is the Primary . We are not playing GAMES anymore. General Election is like the Primary election with WINNER TAKE ALL like the Republicans are doing. They have a winner and if we use the same method , we have a winner.
Dennis Kucinich is more qualified to be President than Obama. There%u2019s no need to take shots at Obama%u2019s middle name in order to defeat him: all one has to do is look at his limited accomplishments in the Senate, his undistinguished track record in the Illinois Legislature, his connection to a radical, race-baiting church and his link to scandal-scarred financier Antoin Rezko. Some politicians make good Presidents in theory. Obama doesn%u2019t even pass that threshold.
Obama has skillfully exploited anti-Bush sentiment to become a political rock star%u2014but has yet to truly appeal to those who will make their electoral decisions based on something besides Bush-loathing.
Executive Level experience is what is needed. and to be president national level experience is what is important. Obama has none. Hillary has been in the Senate for 86 month. Also Hillary was Governor''s wife in Arkansas for 8 years and later for 8 years'' President''s wife. She was not just a housewife. Being an attorney herself and a smart politician she was constantly advising Clinton and was his right hand person. Bill was named the best Governor and he was the best President with no deficits and strong economy under his administration and you have to give a lot of credit to her as well for this .
Everyone knows that for any sporting event or contest you participate in, you can%u2019t change the rules in the middle of a contest! Adding more players at half time is wrong. Especially after they have been disqualified before the game began!
Anwar Sadat and Yitzak Rabin sacrificed their lives so that Israel & Egypt can live in Peace. Jesus Christ lost his life on the cross for all of us. You have 14 months of experience in the US senate out of which you spent 14 months running for presidency.This is too little experience to become the President of USA & the most powerful person in the world. It is about time to make sacrifice to unite the Democratic Party and wait your turn 8 years from now. Vote for the DREAM TICKET !!!
1. On the surface, it sounds, like a ''cut ''n dry'' method to use---but, it has one pretty big problem---it doesn''t always ensure the candidates will be thoroughly ''vetted''! Consequently, someone could get the nomination due to the bandwagon effect or his/her popularity, and yet be poorly equipped to handle the job as president (the current president comes to mind), and get soundly defeated in the general election! While it doesn''t ensure they would (they could cheat,etc) they probably would.
2. As annoying as the current democratic primary is, hopefully, maybe in the end, we''ll have someone to vote for! We''ll see!
Hillary has also had numerous experiences of answering the White House phone at 3am but unfortunately the callers always said CAN I SPEAK TO YOUR HUSBAND PLEASE !!
Here in Kansas, we used caucauses this year. Considering a lot of us are rural, we did not get to vote because of the distance. Oh, they also tooted the horn about Obama''s grandfather being from Kansas. Which was a BIG joke since he has downplayed his white ancestry. Basically he is ashamed he had a white mother.
posted by jack99123
What an excellent comment. How many of us of have thought about this. This man has NOT fulfilled his duties as a US Senator, he has used it strictly as a springboard to run for the Presidency. Again I repeat, America you had better wake up and start raising H*** with the DNC about seating the Florida and Michigan delegates with the primary results standing as is.
Wow, I''m impressed with your typing skills! I''ve never seen anyone type so much within 2 minutes... almost as if you had all this prepared in advance. So how long have you been working for the Clinton 2008 Campaign?
Obama is smashing Hillary ( 10000 BC monster) in the exit poll miss.
He is expected to bag 25 delegated out of 40 ..
also, the PEN latest statewide poll show obama tied up with the monster.
1. Clinton Couple
2. Spitzer
Hilarr''s comment about Spritzer - '' He is a good friend of mine and I respect what he did for NY and for the country....''
Hehehehehhehe
Crush Billary
The Democratic voters should be allowed a chance to have their voices heard. Considering low voter turnout in previous elections, these idiot legislators don''t represent the majority of state voters anyway. (Spoken as a Florida resident.)
The leaders of the Democratic Parties of FL and MI are the people who should be punished. They are the leaders who decided to break the "rule of law" governing the delegate selection process. They knew when they chose to act that they were breaking the rules, and that the consequences could be severe. The DNC did what any political party that wants to remain in existence has to do, and enforced its rules.
The voters of FL and MI should be calling for the heads of their foolish party leaders.
As to a do-over, the rules governing this year''s elections are the results of decades of debate within the party. To allow a do-over at this point will radically alter the process which the rules had provided for. How would FL and MI have voted if they had stayed within the process? We will never know. But any vote by the residents of those states now is tainted by the changes on the ground that have taken place since the time when they might have voted under the rules.
I also don''t believe that not having FL or MI seated at the convention is going to make much difference one way or another to the vast majority of voters. First of all, there is less and less evidence that voters make decisions this far in advance of an election and stick to them, under any circumstances.
And is there really anyone out there who thinks many voters will sit out the election if there are no FL or MI delegates?
I understand, and am sympathetic to your position regarding the Florida and Michigan Democratic leadership(Michigan being much more culpable, since they have a Democratic governor and legislature). There will certainly be an opportunity to punish those of them that are up for re-election in the fall.
But, as I stated before, the primary date was voted on by the entire legislature and signed by the governor. In Florida''s case, that means a Republican majority legislature and governor. How are Democrats to punish them? And in Michigan, the only Democratic candidate whose name was on the ballot was Hillary Clinton, who didn''t show support for the DNC rules by removing her name from the primary ballot. Should she be rewarded at the Michigan Democratic voters expense?
If the state Democratic parties are going to foot the bill, it could be argued that they are paying (literally) a large penalty for their flaunting of DNC rules. To penalize the voters would be grossly unfair, and could skew the nomination in favor of a candidate who thumbed her nose at the rules.
If the state Democratic parties are going to foot the bill, it could be argued that they are paying (literally) a large penalty for their flaunting of DNC rules. To penalize the voters would be grossly unfair, and could skew the nomination in favor of a candidate who thumbed her nose at the rules.
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Posted by flreason at 01:59 PM : Mar 11, 2008
Ms. Clinton didn''t break any rules. She didn''t campaign in either Michigan or Florida. The rule was that they couldn''t campaign, not that they had to take their name off the ballot.
And if you apply the rule to her, you have to apply it to all the other democrats that didn''t take their names off the ballot. It''s not their fault Mr. Obama took his name off the ballot.
80,000 ex-felons ( majority were profiled as democrats) would have been enought to change Florida Blue or Democrat.
To dilute the voting power of Democrats, the primary are moved up giving few ex-felons adequate time to get their voting rights restored.
It has been a monumental fear for Florida republicans, who held out to the last year for their compliance.
Governor Charlie Crist has his eyes on the Republican VP position, and knows that watching the state turn Democrat during his watch, would reduce his chances for a bid at the white house.
Democrat Bill Neslon, warned Crist about he delegate penalty threat by the DNC, but Crist and his Republican cronies, just bushed Nelson''s warnings aside and proceeded to make more notorious history for this state, by depriving Democrats of their civil rights. It is fashionable, in their eyes.
http://thepage.time.com/obama
-foreign-policy-memo/
(Obama supporters distribute it as many as possible, about time someone released something pertaining to her "experience")
Our country is not even supposed to NEED "experience".. supposed to be CITIZENS running the place!!! Not some special breed.. and the fact folks THINK you need ''DC'' years to MAKE it is one of the BIG things WRONG with DC.
How can Hillary be ready on "day one" when, after 31 primaries, she says she is "just getting warmed up"??? Dudes, don''t go by what you think you know.. it is wrong.. She claims %u201Cexperience%u201D.. well, Hillary has LESS experience than Obama.. yes, a few more years in DC Senate, but LESS TOTAL!! I do NOT count Mrs Clinton time..
would we even KNOW Hill if she had not been married to Bill? On her own merits? NOPE! And as for that "call at 3AM".. well, she has HAD that call. many times.. she supported the Iraq invasion and did not even READ the intel, which said there was NOT any reason to go in.. other congress critters did read it, and came to the same conclusion that Obama did.. not a good idea to go into Iraq. She is a rubber stamper for BUSH for gods sake! NOT an effective leader.. just says she is.. and you gullible dopes believe what she says and never look past that.. dig into it.. her past is both thin and poor.
So, what kind of nutso WOULD vote, fully knowing the vote was meaningless? NOT folks we want to listen to SOLELY.. (yes they get a voice, but not the ONLY voice).
Let both of them campaign and educate the residents, so they can vote on what is TRUE and NOT on what they THINK they know based on past articles etc.
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