Will Florida, Mich. Delegates Be Seated?

With No Clear Winner In Delegate Tally, Democratic Party Tries To Resolve Uncounted Primaries Before Denver

(CBS)  With the race between Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama close and unlikely to gain either of them a clear majority of delegates before the Democratic Party's convention this summer, the determining factors may be the fate of delegates from the Florida and Michigan primaries - delegates which have been excluded, so far.

Now representatives from each state are in talks with party leaders to come to a solution, in the hopes of avoiding a meltdown and a fractured party going into (and coming out of) Denver.

Gov. Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, said he thought it was "very unlikely" that Florida and Michigan delegations would be seated at the national convention without some concessions.

“I think it's very unlikely that Florida and Michigan, given how close this race is, are going to be seated as-is," he told Face The Nation host Bob Schieffer. "But everybody's going to work very hard to find a compromise within the rules that's fair to both campaigns that will allow Florida and Michigan in the end to be seated.”

Dean stressed that, in light of talk of a "do-over" of the vote in those two states, the party will not foot the bill should it come to states holding a new primary election.

“The Democratic National Committee is not going to pay for it because, right now, our job is to tell the American people about Senator McCain's record on Iraq and the deficits and so forth, and convince the American people that our nominee is better than Senator McCain. And that's what we're going to be using our resources for.”

Dean hoped that the issue could be resolved sooner rather than later, as the dispute has the potential of being damaging to the ultimate victor. “We don’t think knock-down, drag-out fights are ever good between Democrats," he said. “We'd much prefer to have this all settled well before we get to the convention, if that can happen.”

Also on the program, Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., and Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., talked about the importance of coming to a resolution to the delegate dispute in Flordia and Michigan, without resorting to a re-writing of the rules.

Nelson, a supporter of Hillary Clinton, said if the DNC will not seat Florida's delegates from the January 29 primary, "then the only thing I know to do is to do it over." He suggested a new election (possibly a mail-in vote) would cost $6 million, which the Florida Democratic Party would have to raise themselves.

Kerry, who has been campaigning for Obama, said the Illinois Senator would accept whatever deal is reached between the states and the party: “Let's go forward. Let's get this done in a way that allows Michigan and Florida to be at the convention, brings the party together, unites it - which is what his candidacy is about - and resolve this issue fairly.”

Later in the program, Democratic strategist and CBS News consultant Joe Trippi and Republican strategist Howard Rollins talked about the debate over delegate sin Florida and Michigan and its potential to unite or shatter the party.

"I think you have to be very careful when you alienate voters, particularly in your base," Rollins said.

"You know, my sense is that the Republican side was like a NASCAR race in which the front-runners kind of get knocked back and forth, and, obviously, John McCain survived. The Democrat race is kind of like a Muhammad Ali-Joe Frazer fight - they're pounding each other, round by round. And it's pretty fascinating to watch.

"At the end of the day, I expect the party to be unified again, and John McCain to be a very strong candidate. And it will be a very close election."

Trippi was more cautious about the dangers a protracted primary battle would pose for the ultimate nominee, saying that when you have a big fight, the other team wins: "In 1980, when Senator Kennedy went after President Jimmy Carter, we went into that convention, the Democratic side, with a fight on our hands. And Reagan won [the general election].

"Democrats cannot go into this convention fighting. I think we've got to have this settled."

---

Read the full "Face the Nation" transcript here.

[qpublic]

And they want to run the country?

[hhkeller]

Seems like chump change for the change artist candidate. I guess Obamas afraid of primaries since he lost most of them anyway.

[x32792]

Who counts the votes in Florida? Has everyone forgotten the "hanging chad" fiasco?

[smashwl7]

Do not worry all you Hillary supporters let''s wait in see how pissed off Hillary can angry all the Obama''''s supporters. I am not just talking about Obama ether; just the people who support him in this election. She underestimated him before the election and now she is underestimating his strong support. Remember this is a movement will see what happens after she steals the election. This is going to go down as a classic battle in the history books. Your grandchildren will be talking about the 08 election; what happened?. Do not worry; Obama does not have to say a word the people who support him will.

This is Hillary%u2019s scorched earth policy, slash and burn. If she can%u2019t win then her policy is to destroy everything and everyone including the Democratic Party. She is willing to loose her legacy and her dignity all in the name of power. I feel really bad for her if she does this she will regret it later in life.

I see a great opportunity here for the republicans in this election. If Hillary steals this election; by her any means necessary policy. The republicans should try to reach to all the African Americans and Obama supporters to support John McCain... Obama should not under any circumstances accept or align himself; in any way with the Clinton Campaign. He should go back to the Senate and get ready 2012. All of us who support Obama should either vote for John McCain or sit this election out in protest of Hillary Clinton???s campaign

[coreyalan23]

The beginning of this article is inaccurate. Obama does have a clear delegate lead and it is next to impossible for Clinton to close the gap. Saying that neither will have a clear lead is incorrect and misleading. But it sure helps make the pro-hillary argument. . . .

[alabamatoy]

Hillary Clinton is the most controversial politician in this country''s history. The republican machine is itching for her to get the nomination to make her scandals a center stage of this election. Before we vote for her, let us take a preview of how vulnerable she is here .. http://www.therant.us/staff/swirsky/03132006.htm

[alabamatoy]

Hillary Clinton is the most controversial politician in this country''s history. The republican machine is itching for her to get the nomination to make her scandals a center stage of this election. Before we vote for her, let us take a preview of how vulnerable she is here .. http://www.therant.us/staff/swirsky/03132006.htm

[alabamatoy]

Hillary Clinton is the most controversial politician in this country''s history. The republican machine is itching for her to get the nomination to make her scandals a center stage of this election. Before we vote for her, let us take a preview of how vulnerable she is here .. http://www.therant.us/staff/swirsky/03132006.htm

[alabamatoy]

Hillary Clinton is the most controversial politician in this country''s history. The republican machine is itching for her to get the nomination to make her scandals a center stage of this election. Before we vote for her, let us take a preview of how vulnerable she is here .. http://www.therant.us/staff/swirsky/03132006.htm

[gemstone1955]

The DNC may not accept the citizens of Florida & Michigan''s voice at there convention but come November they can''t suppress there voice any longer. I think Florida & Michigan citizens will at that time make very clear there voice! As will there fellow citizens all across this country who believe in a citizens right to have there voice heard and there vote count. The DNC will regret having gotten away with a bad & illegal rule that is in conflict with the constitution of the United States. Our government leaders may not want to take on the issue because they are all part of a party but we the people know wrong when we see it and come November we the people will let the DNC know they should have counted the Florida & Michigan votes and chosen delegates in a open and fair election that was conducted by the government.

[gemstone1955]

The DNC may not accept the citizens of Florida & Michigan''s voice at there convention but come November they can''t suppress there voice any longer. I think Florida & Michigan citizens will at that time make very clear there voice! As will there fellow citizens all across this country who believe in a citizens right to have there voice heard and there vote count. The DNC will regret having gotten away with a bad & illegal rule that is in conflict with the constitution of the United States. Our government leaders may not want to take on the issue because they are all part of a party but we the people know wrong when we see it and come November we the people will let the DNC know they should have counted the Florida & Michigan votes and chosen delegates in a open and fair election that was conducted by the government.

[gemstone1955]

The DNC may not accept the citizens of Florida & Michigan''s voice at there convention but come November they can''t suppress there voice any longer. I think Florida & Michigan citizens will at that time make very clear there voice! As will there fellow citizens all across this country who believe in a citizens right to have there voice heard and there vote count. The DNC will regret having gotten away with a bad & illegal rule that is in conflict with the constitution of the United States. Our government leaders may not want to take on the issue because they are all part of a party but we the people know wrong when we see it and come November we the people will let the DNC know they should have counted the Florida & Michigan votes and chosen delegates in a open and fair election that was conducted by the government.

Illegal because

1. 2008 first time Primary process is a nation wide process

2 tax payer money used to pay for elections and it crossed state lines to conduct all phases of those state elections

3. Presidents only have come from primaries

4. if the rule had been against a minority not having a right to vote in the primary process or there chosen delegate seated for representation at the conventions do you think the US government would have step in for there voters rights? YES IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

[tim2john]

Gemstone, I think you have a very valid argument here for a lawsuit to be filed on behalf of the disenfranchised voters of FL and MI. If Mr. Dean fails to seat your delegates "as is", then I would gather as many Hillary supporters as possible and file a class action lawsuit against Mr. Dean and the DNC! I believe you have a winner.
Tim

[realpatriot1]

gemstone1955,

Your case is not against the DNC, it''s against the Michigan and Florida officials who moved up their Primaries knowing what consequences the rules called for.

Hillary won''t be going to court because she would have to be a subject of her own law suit since she went along with this agreemnt when she and Florida and Michigan all agreed to it.

It would be like the Coke commercial where coke wants to sue itself. It wuld be thrown out in a nano-second.

Regarding disenfranchisement these 2 states disenfranchised themselves. The problem will be worked out but it''s a problem of Michigan and Florida''s making, with an assist from the flip-flopping Clinton Campaign.

Keep in mind that 45% of Michigan voters came out in the snow to vote none of the above with only Hillary to vote for. And you think she should get all the delegates? I don''t think so!

[ewnnrj]

"Will Florida, Mich. Delegates Be Seated?"
No.
Live with it.

[snarful]

If I were to break the law, would a judge say go back and do it over? Well all parties agreed to the rules. Now they want to be seated? Many Dem.''s did not vote in the Floida primary because they knew it would not count. Besides the Dem.s will not win Florida in the general election anyway. As far as Mich. goes only one candidate on the ballet give me a break.

[realpatriot1]

If Hillary had abided by her agreement to not campaign in these states the Primaries could''ve proceeded when originally scheduled and we wouldn''t have this mess.

She wanted to see if she could get away with running unopposed like Sadaam. Now it''s blowing up in her face yet she''s still whining.

She is now telling Newsweek that she believes pledged delegates elected by the voters re free to change their votes. It''s clear that she knows she''s already lost fair and square and she''s planning to steal the nomination by promising perks to elected delegates to go against the vote of the public.

Is this what she would call a core Democratic value?

Samantha Power was ight, she is a monster. It''s time for real Democrats to ram a stake through the heart of the beast!

[davthewav1]

Florida''s republican governor Charlie Crist is promoting the option of allowing the illegitimate primary''s results stand with Hillary Clinton as the winner . Why wouldn''t he want a do over election that would follow the rules of the DNC . Could it be as a avid supporter of John McCain, governor Crist wants Hillary to win the nomination knowing that she would be easier to beat than Barack Obama in the general election? It seems that Hillary Clinton and the republicans have a common agenda, to take Obama out of the game, that is until the general election where the republicans will unite strongly against their despised opponent .

[cozzicon]

"The DNC may not accept the citizens of Florida & Michigan''''s voice at there convention but come November they can''''t suppress there voice any longer. I think Florida & Michigan citizens will at that time make very clear there voice!"-- Posted by gemstone1955

What a load of garbage.

1. The Michigan and Florida democrat parties were told not to hold a primary before a particular date, or their delegates would not be seated.

2. Clinton and Obama both agree to this based on party rules. They both state publicly that they will adhere to the policy of the party.

3. Clinton puts herself on the ballot in in both states. Obama is on the ballot in Florida.

4. Michigan and Florida hold primaries in violation of party rules.

5. Clinton starts losing primaries. And then starts to actively trying to get the DNC to give her the delegates for her wins in Florida and Michigan. Which are not even really wins, since Obama didn''t campaign in either state, and wasn''t even on the ballot in Michigan (Obama adhered to the rules).

C''Mon- who are you speaking up for? This isn''t a voters rights issue. If anything it''s a manipulation of the vote being perpetrated by Hillary Clinton.

Those delegates should-not-be-seated. Period.

Citizens of Florida and Michigan who feel disenfranchised in the primary process should hold their local party leadership accountable.

Vote the bums out!

[lisa313-2009]

Many people living outside of the state of Florida are stating that the will of the people came through in the votes on January 29. The amount of people that came out to vote had more to do with the tax issue on the ballot than voting for Hillary Clinton. What they fail to realize when they comment that Hillary Clinton won overwhelmingly is the fact that many Barack supporters were told that their vote would not count, and for this reason stayed home. I myself was one of those voters and I know many others as well. In retrospect, I am now wondering if I was apart of just another one of Hillary Clinton and her campaign insiders "bag of tricks". Could this have been planned all along. If Hillary knew the rules of the game going in and objected to them, why did she agree not to campaign in front of the DNC and other candidates. Yet inspite of this agreement she flew down to Florida before the primary and just happened to be shown on the local tv speaking to a crowd of potential voters. Like usual, she said one thing in our faces and did something else behind our backs. I don''t know about anyone else, but that is called campaigning. Hillary and all her supporters knew about that DNC decision to not seat delegates before Michigan and Florida. It seems her conviction to get them seated now has more to do with being behind Barack Obama in the delegate count.

[kerick913]

The whole Loser-crat situation shows how well they could govern the country. They can''t even figure out how to nominate their leader. They want to change their own rules after the game starts. That is something that kids do when they are losing at Monopoly or another board game. If the DNC wants to havea do-over, then they should pay the entire bill for a do-over. The taxpayers of the state should NOT pay a dime. Besides, the Republican voters don''t care and definately should not pay.

[samthetvcat]

If you allot the all the delegates for the remaining states by using relative donations to the candidates as proxy for relative voter support which tends to be a strong predictor, and then add the Michigan and Florida delegates and popular vote as-is, Hillary STILL doesn''t beat Obama (when you give Obama half the ''uncommitted'' votes, which is WAY generous) on pledged delegates and popular vote.

So, maybe this whole argument will become moot if she loses Pennsylvania. Because then doesn''t she lose her whole argument that only SHE can win big states? The superdelegates might all use that excuse to pile on Barack''s side if that happens just to squeeze her out. Despite conventional wisdom, I actually think she''s LESS likely to win Pennsylvania because she''s never actually been the front-runner this whole race . . . when she tries to portray herself as the front-runner, voters shoot her down. She CLAIMS her base are blue-collar men, but prior to Ohio they''ve been shifting towards Obama which means if they shifted to her that fast they can just as easily shift away from her.

If you look at candidates the way you would assess the true value of a stock, Obama''s got greater growth potential because his ''change'' platform works better against McCain. Hillary''s ''experience'' platform does not. I think it comes down to that given that their policy positions are pretty much the same . . .

[samthetvcat]

PS Also blue-collar men are likely cognizant that while Hillary uses black/''muslim'' references against Barack, the GOP are likely to use female references against her (the stand by her man like Tammy Winette quote, etc) . . .

[elsylee28]

of course they will.
BTW I found a fantastic article...A MUST read for EVERYONE

%u201CThe Hussein Dynamic%u201D at http://savagepolitics.com.

Brilliant writing that goes beyond what the MSM is feeding us!!!!

[elsylee28]

of course they will be seated.

BTW I found a fantastic article...A MUST read for EVERYONE

%u201CThe Hussein Dynamic%u201D at http://savagepolitics.com.

Brilliant writing that goes beyond what the MSM is feeding us!!!!

[samthetvcat]

''%u201CThe Hussein Dynamic%u201D at http://savagepolitics.com''
Posted by elsylee28

Oh, it just occurred to me that the GOP are also going to have a field day with Hillary''s other base of support - recent immigrants (apparently gratitude for Bill Clinton''s immigration policies in the 90''s) who''s voting block is often referred to by the ''msm'' as the ''latino'' vote and the ''Asian'' vote . . .

[tibu987]

Who authorized the primaries in Forida and Michigan knowing it was against DNC rules? And why?
I smell something here that is not right. Is this some underhanded method that somewhow will influence the campaign results?
I do not trust the Clintons one iota, they are capable of sleazy, under-the-table doings. They may be calling in some of their political chits.
Can anyone tell me why this happened?
What was gained by having the primaries early?

[samthetvcat]

That slickster Gov. Crist needs to start thinking about how it''s going to look if he is taking every position that benefits Clinton with regards to this Florida primary debacle, and Obama still prevails, wins the nomination, wins the general election, becomes President, is successful at it, and then comes up for re-election in 2012.

Because if Crist is hoping to challenge him, he''ll be running as the guy who directly took on Obama and his popularity and LOST.

[qa2008-2009]

I am not the brightest person when it comes to all of this stuff, so could someone please explain to me why it even mattered when Fla, and Mich held their primaries?
I know there has been a long standing order, but does it really matter?
I consider myself a Democrat, maybe not a liberal, but for the most part a Democrat, but I do feel by having a "do over" is not the right thing to do no matter how it is done.
The leaders of the state party were told what would happen if they did, and that should be it.
The real losers in my opinion are the people that took the time to go to the polls knowing their votes would not count, and now the possibly having no say in the process, yet still tried to do what they felt was right.
I do not feel the delegates should be seated, and let the state party leaders explain to the people of these states why they took the actions they did.
I also hope the super delegates listen to what the people of America are saying and not just go with whom they are now pledged.

[katg21]

They want to change their own rules after the game starts.Posted by kerick913

Bingo. Dems will try to find a way around all rules, even their own. Sneaky ***. I say what''s done is done, no going back. The DNC (Dean & McCullough) hand picked Clinton as the candidate, never expecting Obama to be any kind of a challenge. It''s so laughable! Now that there''s a chance that their chosen one won''t win they want to change their own rules. If I were Obama and his supporters I would be very suspect. Allowing Michigan and Florida delegates to be seated only benefits Hillary. Don''t be fooled, this was the plan all along. For what other reason would Hillary keep her name on the Michigan ballot? She has Howard Dean, the DNC and the super delegates by the short and curlies. She will be the Dem candidate. Poor Obama.

[katg21]

Who authorized the primaries in Forida and Michigan knowing it was against DNC rules? And why?Posted by tibu987

Exactly! Howard Dean and the DNC and Florida authorized the primaries and you are right to ask why. The RNC'' punishment was that only half of the states delegates would count. Why is it not the same for the DNC? The dems believe their base to be the biggest idiots. They actually expect you to re-do the primaries? You all complain about the economy and deficit yet it''s okay to re-do a primary that will cost in excess of 25 mil because the DNC''s chosen one needs the delegates? Come on people, wake up already! The DNC doesn''t want Obama to win the nomination, plain and simple.

[arr967]

This wasn''t even an issue until Hillary, and her surrogate CNN made it an issue. The Senior Correspondant cautioned CNN on this quite some time ago and rightly so. CNN projected Senator Clinton to win Iowa, and she lost it. They then projected Senator Obama to win New Hampshire, and he lost. The correspondant for the Washington Post told "The Best Political Team" in news as CNN would put it to stop "Predicting the News and stick to Reporting it." Now they''ve taken it a step further. Now they want to "Be the News" instead of reporting it, but htis time they have clearly stepped over the line. Bloggers are having a field day with this and to be quite candid so am I.
CNN ran an internet article titled "Dems should have seen this coming" yesterday. Well I''m sorry for my ignorance but I never thought a news cast would tell me how to think or determine who the next President was going to be. I thought "The People" decided that. Silly me.

[popstom1]

After Gore there is no way they have too redo Fl. Mi.
the republican moved the Fl. election Howard pull
your head out of your A$$ and get it done

[singingrick]

katg21

Wow, such a long post and you said absolutely nothing. How do you do it?


lol!

[machiavelliw]

The overarching point of this article is that the Dems will lose in November. All this infighting over Clinton v. Obama will leave the party at a major a disadvantage in the general election because the eventual nominee will have only about two months to assuage the bruised feelings of their opponent''s supporters, while simultaneously trying to do battle with John McCain and the Republicans. So let''s just all get used to the idea of President McCain shall we?

[jaycal33]

Obama is CORRUPT, his slogan of change an ILLUSION.

1) A houseowner wants to sell both a house and adjoining land. Obama can afford to buy only the house. No problem, the criminal Rezko to the rescue. Rezko pays full price for the land, whereas Obama gets a discount of $300,000 on the house. Nice to have criminal friends like this!!! (reference ABC News)

2) Exelon Corporation had not disclosed radioactive leaks at one of its nuclear plants in Illinois. Obama, a senator for Illinois introduces a bill to make disclosures mandatory. Seems like Exelon doesn''t like it. Each draft of the new bill by Obama goes more and more towards Exelon till disclosures end up being "voluntary". What gives? How about $250,000+ donations by Exelon to Obama''s campaigns!!! Obama is not change, he is WASHINGTON BUSINESS AS USUAL. (reference New York Times)

People need to stop believing their fantasies about Obama and realize that Hillary is the one who has been fighting for them all along. All the way back to 1993 when she tried to introduce universal health care (before it became politically fashionable).

[mdk2dude]

To allow the Michigan and Florida represenatives to be counted at the convention they should give half the votes to Obama and half to Clinton. That was the delegation is seated and no one has an advantage.

[darrren12000]

only the dems could make a 15 million dollar decision that is unfair to almost 3 million voters.

[darrren12000]

qa -- you could have saved a lot of space in your post if you just said "go-bama"

[darrren12000]

um, why the stupid arguments about giving half the delegates to each candidate? that''s real smart. same result as giving each candidate zero delegates. what would that accomplish?

[katg21]

Wow, such a long post and you said absolutely nothing.
Posted by singingrick

Nothing you or any other dem is willing to hear b/c of your stupidity. You don''t even realize that your party leaders think you''re stupid. They know that you will NEVER question anything they do; you''ll just blindly vote for them.

[iamthequeen-]

If everyone says we should play by the rules with FL and MI then the same should be true with the superdelegates. Why do they have to vote with their constituents when the party gave them a vote of their own. Obama can''t have it both ways but nice try.

[byeneocons]

Where the he// is Jeb Bush when you need another Florida election fixed?

[fettkonserv]

Why bother? They''re Republicons who needs them.