McCain Looks Ahead

60 Minutes' Scott Pelley Interviews The Presumptive GOP Presidential Candidate

(CBS)  "I am told that on a trip to New Hampshire one of your aides switched you off one airline and put you on Southwest Airlines because it would save a few bucks. You were down to that, is that true?" Pelley asked.

"I don't remember the incident. It may have happened without them telling me. But it certainly wouldn't surprise me," McCain said.

"You never talked to anybody about giving it up?" Pelley asked.

"No. No," McCain replied.

McCain centered his campaign on what was among the most divisive issues in America: the surge in Iraq.

When 60 Minutes traveled with him to Iraq last April, two thirds of the American people were against the surge.

"I believe that we can succeed and I believe the consequences of failure are catastrophic. Those who say just withdraw, then you say, 'What next?'" McCain asked in the 2007 interview.

"I wonder at what point do you stop doing what you think is right and you start doing what the majority of the American people want?" Pelley asked.

"Well, again, I disagree with what the majority of the American people want. Failure will lead to chaos, withdrawal will lead to chaos," McCain said at the time.

"That was not what the American people wanted to hear at that time," Pelley pointed out.

"That's exactly right. It's not what they wanted to hear. I can read the polls very well," McCain said.

"But you said it anyway," Pelley said.

"Well, I said, at the time I'd much rather lose a campaign than lose a war. Now, more and more Americans are believing that the surge is succeeding. I'm very glad of that," McCain replied.

Surge success helped win New Hampshire. Later, the conservative vote split between Romney and Huckabee. McCain won enough conservatives, moderates and independents to seize the momentum. It was a narrow escape for McCain, but then that's the story of his life.

As a naval aviator during Vietnam he walked away from an accident that killed 134 others. He was shot down on his 23rd combat mission. The enemy offered to let him go because he was the son of an admiral but McCain demanded other Americans be released first, so he remained as a prisoner of war five and a half years. Because of torture, today, he can lift his arm only so high.

Pelley asked him about American interrogation methods today. Asked if water boarding is torture, McCain said, "Sure. Yes. Without a doubt."

"So the United States has been torturing POWs?" Pelley asked.

"Yes. Scott, we prosecuted Japanese war criminals after World War II.
And one of the charges brought against them, for which they were convicted, was that they water-boarded Americans," McCain said.

"How did we lose our way?" Pelley asked.

"I don't know the answer to that. I think one of the failures maybe was not to listen more to our military leadership, including people like General Colin Powell, on this issue," McCain said.

"In your town hall meetings you're fond of saying that you will follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of hell," Pelley remarked. "With respect, following him to the gates of hell is easy. What's hard is putting several divisions of U.S. forces on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan. What are you willing to do?"

"Well, the first thing is not tell Osama bin Laden what I'm gonna do. But I'll get him," McCain vowed.