On Environment: Pay Now, Or Pay Big Later

Global Economic Group Says It's Affordable, Economically Viable Now, But Not For Long

(AP)  The world can respond to such "red light" environmental challenges as climate change at a low cost now, or pay a much stiffer price later for indecision and inaction, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development said Wednesday.

"A window of opportunity to act is now open," the organization said in its Environmental Outlook to 2030. "We need forward-looking policies today to avoid high costs of inaction or delayed action over the longer term."

The outlook, part of a series of reports compiled every five years, was being presented by the organization's secretary-general, Angel Gurria, in the Norwegian capital on Wednesday. The latest report concentrates on "red light issues" in such areas as climate change, water shortages, energy needs, biodiversity loss, transportation, agriculture and fisheries.

"Without more ambitious policies, increasing pressures on the environment could cause irreversible damage within the next few decades," said the summary released in advance. "The cost of inaction is high, while ambitious actions to protect the environment are affordable and can go hand-in-hand with economic growth."

Although the organization is made up of 30 European nations, the report stressed the need for a global response to environmental challenges.

It said that by 2030, the world's population, currently about 6.5 billion people, is expected to hit 8.2 billion, and the global economy could double in size, largely due to growth in countries like Brazil, Russia, China and India. Unchecked, growth in energy consumption in those countries could be 72 percent by 2030, compared to 29 percent for all 30 OECD countries.

That would lead to a 38 percent increase in climate-damaging carbon dioxide emissions by 2050, even if the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development reduced its own emissions by 43 percent through a carbon tax of US$25 per ton starting this year. However, if Brazil, Russia, China and India take the same step in 2020, and are followed by the rest of the world in 2030, emissions could be held at 2000 levels.

Globalization can help solve the world's environmental problems or make them worse, depending on what steps are taken now to shape the world economy, the report said.

"While globalization has a range of potential impacts both good and bad on the environment, the state of the environment and natural resources also affects economic development and globalization," the organization said.

The report included a model of the impact on the environment if no steps were taken, compared to the result if the report's policy recommendations were adopted worldwide.

With no measures, the world gross domestic product is expected to grow 99 percent between 2005 and 2030, with severe environmental consequences, it said. With measures, growth would be nearly the same, 97 percent, but with a much healthier environment.

"A policy package to address some of these key environmental challenges could cost as little as 0.03 percentage points in average GDP growth globally to 2030," it said.

The report said governments must create such policies as "green taxes" to encourage sound technologies and practices, and that the rich world must help poor countries develop without spewing pollution by providing technology and expertise.

It also said ecological advances bring multiple benefits. For example, cutting motor vehicles' greenhouse gas emissions would improve air quality in cities; better insulated homes cut power bills for consumers while reducing power plant emissions; reducing agricultural run-off of nitrogen fertilizers could cut emissions of climate damaging gas nitrous oxide and provide cleaner water supplies.

[afmca]

Nothing will happen in the U.S. until the Repubs are out of office and in such small numbers in Congress that they cannot stall legislation. Until then Repubs will do what Repubs do the best .. deny science, protect CEO bonuses, and defer the damage to the next generation. Since our grandchildren will still be paying for Bush''s war, Bush''s deficit, and Bush''s infringement on our Constitution; they might as well pay for his ecological damages also. I think that the legacy of the Republican Party is already sealed for the 21st century and it will match thate of Hitler, Lenin, and Mao as devasting to their people and the world.

[skyk-2009]

Nothing will happen in the U.S. until the Repubs are out of office and in such small numbers in Congress that they cannot stall legislation. Until then Repubs will do what Repubs do the best .. deny science, protect CEO bonuses, and defer the damage to the next generation. Since our grandchildren will still be paying for Bush''''s war, Bush''''s deficit, and Bush''''s infringement on our Constitution; they might as well pay for his ecological damages also. I think that the legacy of the Republican Party is already sealed for the 21st century and it will match thate of Hitler, Lenin, and Mao as devasting to their people and the world.


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Posted by afmca at 08:15 AM : Mar 05, 2008
+ report abuse

Yep just like everything else in our history.

[singingrick]

If we''d spent the 2 trillion we''re going to spend stealing Iraq''s oil on developing the sustainable energy technologies that are already available, we''d be a long way toward total energy independence. As it stands, we continue to export dollars to countries that hate us so that we can import their oil.

[rphull]

Its clear that the science is being ignored by the Gore, the UN and all of those that think that global warming is caused by the increase in co2. All one has to do to convince themselves is to critically review the data that is available. The popular media is doing a "snowjob" on the masses. In a nutshell what the data shows is that it was warmer in 1000ad than it is now and the co2 was lower. So how does that data support the snowjob stance that co2 causes global warming? Please America put on your thingking caps and wakeup!! Your are being taken for a ride!!

[lorinkundert]

I didn''t think it would take too long for the propaganda to start again, look at the NOAA report, the ice packs are back and record cold and snows affected most of the world.

[hawksprings]

Meanwhile, in the real world,
Australia had it''s coldest summer since 1956, with far above average.
Global temp averages for the past 8 years have been unchanged.
The past 12 months'' temps on this planet have been 1 degree cooler than normal.
500+ scientists have met in New York this week to challenge The Consensus and threaten to sue Algore to force him to go into a court of law and defend his carbon credits scam and the so-called ''science'' of global warming.

There''s no Global Warming crisis people.
Chill out.

You Global Warming Sheep have been duped.
Admit it.

[nic1234567-2009]

Its clear that the science is being ignored by the Gore, the UN
---------------------------------------
It sounds like you%u2019re the one that really ignoring science. There is pretty much a consensus in the science community that global warming is real. While it is true that the Earth has had much warmer climates in the past, it misses the real point. The critical issue with what is going on today is not where the temperature is or is not at, but how fast it is moving. Change, not final state, being the real danger.

Here%u2019s a chart comparing temperature change over the last 2000 Years notice the change in the last 100 years..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png

There are also two major global temperature analyses go back around 150 years.

NASA GISS direct surface temperature analysis
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/

CRU direct surface temperature analysis
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/info/warming/

[hmikem]

Follow the carbon credit money!!!!!

[singingrick]

If we''d spent the 2 trillion we''re going to spend stealing Iraq''''s oil on developing the sustainable energy technologies that are already available, we''d be a long way toward total energy independence. As it stands, we continue to export dollars and blood to countries that hate us so that we can import their oil.

It''s clear that we have to remove these backward thinking "conservatives" to make any progress on this issue.

[displeased]

There''''s no Global Warming crisis people.
Chill out.
Posted by hawksprings

So are you suggesting we don''t take means to clean our air and water and we should keep investing in non-renewable sources of fuel?

[mike71067]

Are people still crying about the changing climate? Notice how they are no longer calling it "global warming" - there hasn''t been a measurable increase in the earth''s temperature in 10 years. Whoops! Now it''s called "climate change". Well, not to shock you, but the climate has been warming since the Ice Age.

"Global warming" is a scam. If we fall for it, we will spend billion$ before we realize we''ve been had.

[mike71067]

"Too many morons driving super sized vehicles to make there small brained little worthless selves look important."
-Posted by george2221 at 11:43 AM : Mar 05, 2008

You could replace "super sized vehicles" with "hybrids" and the sentence would be just as accurate.

[thgdriver]

Waddle right up to the brainwash trough and swill down on this cra-p. Have another heaping ladle of whatever the crack pot doom sayers are selling this year.

"GREEN TAXES" LMFAO, I knew they would start it sooner or later. Hey, you want to buy into this be my guest, they try to tax me to pay for this folly and WW3 will start.

[wardoglrs]

Milton Friedman Explain''s it all
http://www.ideachannel.tv/

Read how the fed stole your money.

http://www.apfn.net/Doc-100_bankruptcy.htm

[hawksprings]

"There''''''''s no Global Warming crisis people.
Chill out."
Posted by hawksprings

"So are you suggesting we don''''t take means to clean our air and water and we should keep investing in non-renewable sources of fuel?"
Posted by Displeased

Displeased,
I''m all for cleaner technology, but I''m not for more government control, more ''carbon taxes'' and people like Algore getting rich on this scam.

[thgdriver]

Hi Floyd, how are things in the trailer park today? Don''t forget to check in with your Guru, Owl Gore. I am sure he has some leaflets for you to hand out at wal mart, k-mart. LOL!

[thgdriver]

I''ll tell you this george2221, you cut me off again with that Ja-p scooter of yours and they won''t be able to tell the difference between you and that squirrel that''s s been on the road all week.

[crusherking]

"Global warming" is a scam. If we fall for it, we will spend billion$ before we realize we''''ve been had.
Posted by mike71067

See people. This is exactly how you should think. Good job Mike! Its about time we woke up and studied Earth and its loooonnngg history of climate cycles. The Earth has gone between cold and hot for millions of years. It has NOTHING to do with mans activity. Sure we all want cleaner air less cfc''s etc. Thats fine. But call it what it is.. Clean air inititiave or something like that. The whole global warming concept was simply a scam. We are in fact consider a cold climate in comparison to what the dinosaurs lived in. Don''t believe the hype, do the research and be intelligent about what you believe. If you actually do the research, you''ll see that what global warming fear mongers are telling you just isn''t supported by history or fact.

[thgdriver]

If you actually do the research, you''''ll see that what global warming fear mongers are telling you just isn''''t supported by history or fact.

Posted by crusherking

You must be new around here crusher, telling these sheep to do some research, might as well tell them to burn their "Inconvenient Truth bibles. Ain''t gonna happen.

[lochlan-2009]

It doesn''t make sense to say we want to change the entire worlds climate. This has the stink of global politics all over it. I don''t see any proof that anything these people are saying about the weather couldn''t have happened anyway, since it has all happened in the past anyway. We had ten million year ice ages, and warm ups, and volcanoes, and comet collisions. Now we want to stop the climate from changing from its current climate. I see large quantities of money being pushed into alternative energies. I don''t believe the Global warming scam, especially when Al Gore wins the Noble Peace Prize for it.

[rf35]

I''m glad the majority of the world is buying into the man-made global warming idea. We need to get off oil and coal and onto renewable energy. The concept of anthropogenic climate change is just the incentive people need to actually make a change and clean up the environment. I don''t care that it''s fake or that a few people stand to make some money on it. It''s good for the world. Besides, if we don''t do something soon, the will be some REAL disasters, as yet unforeseen, in our future.

[mcvet]

I don''''t believe the Global warming scam, especially when Al Gore wins the Noble Peace Prize for it.

If you want to gamble you entire future and the future of your family on your bigotry and hate for a person I guess that''s okay. Me? I will believe the scientist and people who have the knowledge and degrees. By the way where did you get your degree? Sears? SIEG HEIL Bush!

[mcvet]

I''''m all for cleaner technology, but I''''m not for more government control, more ''''carbon taxes'''' and people like Algore getting rich on this scam.


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Posted by hawksprings at 12:23 PM : Mar 05, 2008
+ report abuse

You''re hatred for Mr. Gore is beneath even a Nazi. I just can''t figure you freaks out. You pick someone out, HATE them with all you have and expect everyone else to hate them. I know you HAVE to be a southern fascist, no other people on planet earth are that stupid, but it would appear you would grow up some. The GOVERNMENT is REQUIRED by our constitution to be involved and to provide for the General Welfare of this nation. That is something else you Nazi''s have never understood or believed in isn''t it. Sieg Heil Y''all.

[mcvet]

If you actually do the research, you''''''''ll see that what global warming fear mongers are telling you just isn''''''''t supported by history or fact.

Posted by crusherking

You must be new around here crusher, telling these sheep to do some research, might as well tell them to burn their "Inconvenient Truth bibles. Ain''''t gonna happen.


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Posted by thgdriver at 01:09 PM : Mar 05, 2008
+ report abuse

Really? Well I HAVE done a lot of research on it and the VAST majority of experts in the field all agree, that global warning is AS real as it can get! Now where did you two "Intelligent" fascist say you got YOUR degrees from? ROFLMAO Sieg Heil Bush!!

[mcvet]

Posted by crusherking at 12:40 PM : Mar 05, 2008
+ report abuse

Those "Fear Mongers" happen to be the PEOPLE who have told us about the changes in the past. THEY are the ones who are telling us that THIS one could be as bad or worst than those in the past. Now Swastika Breath, since you raised the issue, can you tell us WHAT those experts say the REASON''s for those past changes WERE? One of those Changes cause just about ALL life on this planet to vanish. Care to explain THAT one for us. IF the caps melt, what will happen? If the climate changes by 3 degrees what happens? Come on Swastika Breath YOU say you''ve done research on this issue... tell us what happens and how. Sieg Heil Bush! Dumb as a box of rocks!!

[mcvet]

Every American should listen carefully to the pro''s and con''s in the arguments on this issue then weigh what YOU stand to loose should one side be right. If we do as all the leading scientist and experts tell us at the very worst we end up with much cleaner air and water. If we listen to those who want to pretend it doesn''t exist the worst is do awlful to even discuss here. IF you will notice the SAME people who now argue that we should just ignore Global Warning, it''s happened in the past they say. THOSE are the SAME people who just a few months ago were telling us there was NO such thing as Global Warning. They were wrong then and they are wrong now. In fact in EVERY debate we''ve had on the enviroment they have ALWAYS been wrong. Sieg Heil Y''all.

[hawksprings]

McNazi, I mean, McVet and Floyd:

Global Warming is NOT happening.
The global temp averages for the past 8 years have not changed, so how can you call that Global Warming?
The global temp averages for the past 12 months is ONE DEGREE below the average, so how can you call that Global Warming?

Algore will not debate scientists who dissagree with him, he will not provide proof of how his Carbon Credit Scam works, and therefore a group of scientists are looking at the option of suing him to FORCE him to prove his claims in a court of law... where he would lose and be exposed.


McNazi, I mean, McVet: Unlike you, I don''t want the government to have more control over my life and pocketbook than it does now.
But for a Naziphile like you, you''d love it, wouldn''t you.

Someday soon the whole Global Warming Hysteria will go down in the history books as overblown hype.
And then won''t you look even more foolish than you do now.

[mbcsmith]

Global Warming is happening whether they believe it or not. The Earth doesn''''t care what their political opinions are....

Global Warming will have serious impacts whether they believe it or not. The NASCAR Set are irrelevant to the situation.

Now THAT is the reality.


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Posted by FloydZepp at 02:16 PM : Mar 05, 2008


Record cold for 2008 winter. Expanding sea ice in Arctic. Yeah, pay your taxes to the U.N. like Al Gore says.

[mbcsmith]

They were wrong then and they are wrong now. In fact in EVERY debate we''''ve had on the enviroment they have ALWAYS been wrong. Sieg Heil Y''''all.


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Posted by MCVet at 02:17 PM : Mar 05, 2008


If you believe it, I know it''s a fraud.

[mbcsmith]

I''''ll tell you this george2221, you cut me off again with that Ja-p scooter of yours and they won''''t be able to tell the difference between you and that squirrel that''''s s been on the road all week.


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Posted by thgdriver at 12:37 PM : Mar 05, 2008


LOL... Thanks for the laugh.

[jimfinster]

Algore will not debate scientists who dissagree with him, he will not provide proof of how his Carbon Credit Scam works, and therefore a group of scientists are looking at the option of suing him to FORCE him to prove his claims in a court of law... where he would lose and be exposed.

Posted by hawksprings


Really? And what group of "scientists" would that be?

[lloydbest1]

"It said that by 2030, the world''s population, currently about 6.5 billion people, is expected to hit 8.2 BILLION,......." (my emphasis)

There''s your problem, gang. If we don''t do something about that then the all the political hype around global warming, growth vs. sustainability, resource distribution and conservation becomes unimportant if not irrelevant. Nature will solve the above mentioned issues in one fell swoop using any one (or more) of a number of extremely unpleasant ways.
Those population figures, by the way, are U.N. estimates that they (the U.N.) believe to be accurate. In fact, those numbers are extremely conservative. We may have 8.2 billion right now.
A post or two ago, MCVet asks us to make some choices about whom to believe and, indirectly, the choices we make in how we live our lives. If we can winnow our numbers down to a more reasonable 1.5 to 2.5 billion over the next half century (or however long it takes), keep them there and make reasonablly intelligent choices about resource use; then having to make such choices wouldn''t be so urgent.

[hawksprings]

Dr. Finster:
Here''s the link about a conference that was held earlier this week, but ignored by the Mainstream Media, because it doesn''t agree with The Consensus.

http://www.heartland.org/NewYork08/newyork08.cfm

[hawksprings]

Dr. Finster:

The Weather Channel Founder John Coleman suggests that Algore should be sued to force him to prove his claims in a court of law.
Sorry for the broken up link:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/03/04/weather-channel-founder-sue-al-gore-expose-global-warming-fraud

[displeased]

If we can winnow our numbers down to a more reasonable 1.5 to 2.5 billion over the next half century (or however long it takes), keep them there and make reasonablly intelligent choices about resource use; then having to make such choices wouldn''''t be so urgent.
Posted by LloydBest1

Good luck convincing religious people to cut back squeezing out puppies. When I claim I won''t have kids so I don''t contribute to overpopulation, they keep preaching to me "have kids, God loves them and will see them through the difficult times". But yes, population will be a huge problem. When animals become overpopulated, their numbers are reduced by either disease or starvation.

[bookwerm314]

That economic growth expecation is wrong.. assumes there will be oil to fuel it.. that is not the case. The only country on that list with HUGE reserves will be Brazil, they just discovered a Saudi Arabia sized oil field right off the coast.. and that is the only economy that won''t be energy stangled.

[hawksprings]

"The only country on that list with HUGE reserves will be Brazil, they just discovered a Saudi Arabia sized oil field right off the coast.. and that is the only economy that won''''t be energy stangled."
Posted by bookwerm314

Doesn''t it strike anyone as odd that after all these years of being told we''re running out of oil soon that they have this huge find off of Brazil, a few years ago Mexico had a huge find, and there was another large find recently.

Now one of the leading geologists is saying that crude oil is formed by the hydrocarbons forcing their way up from the core of the earth, and not from dinosaurs.

[jimfinster]

hawksprings:

John Coleman is not exactly a "group" of scientists :)

[jimfinster]

Now one of the leading geologists is saying that crude oil is formed by the hydrocarbons forcing their way up from the core of the earth, and not from dinosaurs.

Posted by hawksprings


You are really on a roll today. As a geologist, I am very surprised to hear this information. Source?

PS
Petroleum did not come from dinosaurs.

[jimfinster]

Here''''s the link about a conference that was held earlier this week, but ignored by the Mainstream Media, because it doesn''''t agree with The Consensus.

http://www.heartland.org/N
ewYork08/newyork08.cfm

Posted by hawksprings


Yeah, I am very familar with the Heartland bunch. They are funded by big energy and right wing conservatives, and don''t even try to deny it. Their agenda is supporting the fossil fuel industry, not in speaking the truth.

[jimfinster]

The funding of the Heartland Institute by big oil and tobacco companies is detailed here:

http://tinyurl.com/yejuvy

[hawksprings]

Dr. Finster:
From the Heartland site:

"You%u2019ve probably read some of the attacks that have appeared in the blogosphere and in print directed against this conference, and against The Heartland Institute. Let me repeat for the record here tonight what appears prominently on our Web site:

No corporate dollars were used to help finance this conference.

The Heartland Institute has 2,700 donors, and gets about 16 percent of its income from corporations.

Heartland gets less than 5 percent of its income from all energy-producing companies combined. We are 95 percent carbon free.

And let me further add to the record:

The honoraria paid to all of the speakers appearing at this conference add up to less than the honorarium Al Gore gets paid for making a single speech, and less than what his company makes selling fake carbon %u201Coff-sets%u201D in a week.

It is no crime for a think tank or advocacy group to accept corporate funding. In fact, corporations that fail to step forward and assure that sensible voices are heard in this debate are doing their shareholders, and their countries, a grave disservice.

[usbrit-2009]

One of the other things that Heartland.org sponsors is a book claiming that health problems concerned with smoking are wrong. A truly learned organization obviously.

I''ll bet you could find quite a correlation between global warming deniers and creationists.

[jimfinster]

hawksprings:

I stand by my previous posts. If you feel they are a reliable source of accurate information, then by all means attend their conference. LOL


http://tinyurl.com/yejuvy

[usbrit-2009]

Humans first! Earth second.

Posted by salty1954

Pretty stupid outlook salty. Without earth where would the humans be?

[jimfinster]

One of the other things that Heartland.org sponsors is a book claiming that health problems concerned with smoking are wrong. A truly learned organization obviously.

I''''ll bet you could find quite a correlation between global warming deniers and creationists.

Posted by USBrit


They have a reputation for taking any position that they get paid to take. That includes tobacco companies, as well as the coal and oil industry...

[hawksprings]

Dr. Finster,
Your source on the Heartland Institute, The Center for Media & Democracy is just a couple of extremist, left-wing guys, Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber, whom the liberal rag Village Voice called "left of liberal".

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/12

[usbrit-2009]

Hawksprings - Note in the final paragraph of your info on Heartland it claims itself to be "a think tank or advocacy group," not an academic institution.

[hawksprings]

Dr. Finster,
Why should we believe your comment about The Heartland Institute when your source is from a couple of radical, left-wing extremists who are called "Left of Liberal" by liberal?

[usbrit-2009]

"Heartland has prompted criticism by employing executives from such corporations as ExxonMobil, General Motors, and Philip Morris on its board of directors and in its public relations department.The institute has accepted more than US$500,000.00 in funds from Exxon and more than US$200,000.00 from Philip Morris.[3]"

From Wikipedia