Fla., Mich. Delegate Battle Heats Up

Governors Call On DNC To Seat Delegates Selected During January Primaries

(CBS/AP)  The governors of Michigan and Florida are saying it's increasingly important that delegates from the two states be seated.

Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm and Florida Governor Charlie Crist say it's "reprehensible" the voices of 5.2 million people who voted in the two primaries would be silenced.

Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton won both contests in January.

They say it's "intolerable" that the Democratic National Committee has stripped the states of their delegates for moving up their primaries in violation of DNC rules.

DNC officials have suggested to both Michigan and Florida that holding another presidential contest of some kind would be one way to get the delegates seated. Both states say caucuses would be expensive to run.

CBS News senior political correspondent Jeff Greenfield reports that the Clinton campaign may be thinking about asking for "re-dos" in the two states.

”A do-over could change the whole complexion of this race," he said.

The DNC Credentials Committee could also agree this summer to seat the delegates.

[girlinvt-2009]

Florida had record turn outs..so the lameo bull of people stayed home cause they knew it wouldnt count is really stupid to say,leave it as is,redo Michigan to be fair.As to the absolute idiocy of the Dnc chair well as a Vermonter I have to say we are used to his ability to be this stupid.After all the Republicans only fined both states half the delegates only the Dnc went over board and really messed it up.Apparently the right to vote ment little to them until now.

[apprxam]

jz7936 you''re right. That''s one of the problems.

The Democrats use of Super-delegates demote a moral corruption that hasn''t always been evident to those registered to this party. As long as the Republicans lied in an upfront manner and wore the cloak of self deluted dishonesty, Democrats failed to see the weakness in their own.

Blacks for instance see Democrats as champions for their cause without acknowledging the fact that the party only caters to black elites like Sharpton, Bonds, Jackson and A. Young. Affirmative Action, for instance, has helped less than 1% Afro-Americans, and most of them elite, but we''ve been under the impression that it''s needed and to speak ill of it is an afront to MLK and racist.

Eventually, Obama''s run for the Presidency will be usurped at the behested of Lewis, Watters, Tubbs-Jones and those previously mentioned, the old guard elites, and hopefully, en mass, the disregistration of blacks from the party and into unaffiliation, nationally and locally. Mr. Obama has dared circumvent the BLACK GATEKEEPERS and must be halted at all cost. The longer the struggle and delay of the evident, the better falling apart of this most fraudulent coaltion. One built on lies and deception

[jerryz7936]

McCain will win the nomination.

The wisdom of the DNC will let Hillary and Obama slug and bloody each other. Obama has the pledge delegate lead.
When the DNC super-delegates overturn the pledge delegates for Hillary or run to Obama side, one side will not vote, may vote for Nader or McCain.

You fools are falling into the conservative republicans plans. If they overrule Obama, 90% of the black vote will be gone and all of the first time and young voters will join.
If jumping to Obama, over sixty years old and women will protest. I don''t want to miss the uneducated that Hillary always says she gets. They don''t know better.

[apprxam]

Michigan''s move to earlier date and is their fault, but who wants to pay for their sins. Florida''s Republican Legislature changes the date and the DNC punishes the voters of Florida from they''re own party. I eagerly await, with a large supply of popcorn, the assured destruction of the Democrat party. These factions will, I hope, move with wreckless abandon toward mutually AMUSED explosion! Why? (1)Super-delagates are undemocratic. (2)Monarchies are unamerican. (3)Race is just the way democrats do things.(ask Bill C. & Jesse J.). (4) The Democrats are no different than republicans and shall, or should, hence be known as DEMO-CONS. Like universal coverage or this wreck we call capitalism, collapse must occur in order for a cure to be considered. The Republican lie and beleive them, but Democrats can''t believe the BS they peddle because it''s too thick and still, they continue with it. Rove didn''t cheat the voters of Florida in 2000, the county Democrats did. But all they do is blame him and Nader, and never themselves. Nothing is ever the fault of this party. I''d vote for McCain but voting for a Republican is against my religion. My religion of good ol'' American Rebellionism.

[marchamlin-2009]

I am a Michigan voter. YOU CANNOT seat those delegates as-is. Not all of the candidates were on the ballot. No campaigning was allowed. Hillary Clinton herself told the voters in New Hampsire that the primary wouldn''t count. If she cared so much about Michigan, she would have stuck up for us then.

Just because you don''t think a law is fair doesn''t mean that you can do what you want. Jennifer Granholm, Carl Levin, Mark Brewer and other top democrats knew what the rules were, but they did what they wanted. Now they have to face the consequences. As lawmakers, they know that if you break a law, you will be punished. If they don''t like the cost of a re-vote, they sholud have considered this before they did what they did. They have no one to blame but themselves.

Re-vote or no vote. If Hillary wins the new election, there will be no arguing about it. But if you seat those delegates as-is, it will be stealing the election. Jennifer Granholm have been a public supporter of Clinton for a long time now. For her to push for seating these delegates is quite suspect.

[cmp271]

Both states need to sue their state Democratic party. They knew better than to hold the primary early. These delegates should not count!! The voters themselves know their delegates wouldn''t count. Why didn''t the public speak up?

We also need to consider having the primary on one day for the whole country. No more of these stupid caucuses. This way we all know who is going to be the candidate. The Democrats need to get rid of their system too. Superdelegates-who are they? From krypton??? Both parties should have it the same way.

Write your U.S.Congressman and U.S.Senator to change this.

This whole race has been pathetic. We are now stuck dealing with the attacks until the fall. How counter-productive is that? Only the Democratic party would do such a stupid thing.

Michigan, I am also from there, please vote for McCain. Go ahead, turn RED. Maybe you will get jobs again. The Democrats just push welfare and being poor. Michigan is a great state, it needs to wake up and "see red" at its current state of affairs. Go with the party who will help you the most.

Florida, AARP will support you!

[nearl4511]

I''m OK with a re-vote. It''s expensive, but probablythe best way.

For Mich, I can''t see how you could just seat the delegates as all the appropriate names were not on the ballot. For FLA you could present a plausible argument to seat the delegates as cast since neither candidate was allowed to campaign. But then again the turnout reflected an understanding that delegates would not be seated.

Since both states'' Dem parties agreed to the rules, then changed them, I believe the party state heads are truly at fault. They owe their constituents a chance to be heard...in their proper order as originally agrred to .....by them!

[ajmarine1]

I can imagine the following scenario. Hillary Clinton%u2019s delegate margin over Barack Obama rises and falls a bit from week to week, depending on primary results. Her margin among superdelegates, around 100, fails to increase much because party and public officeholders are wary of offending Obama%u2019s youth and black constituencies. Then, presto! In early June, Puerto Rico%u2019s 63 delegates put her over the top. She has her majority and goes about the business of choosing a vice presidential candidate.

My guess is that most American voters, no matter how many times they are reminded that Puerto Ricans are our fellow citizens and that Puerto Rican volunteers in disproportionate numbers have shed their blood for their and our country, would consider it absurd for Puerto Rico to determine the presidential nominee of a major party. And that Hillary Clinton%u2019s managers (or Barack Obama%u2019s, if you alter the scenario) would not want to have this appear to be the case.

To avoid it, I would expect a mad scramble for superdelegate commitments in late May and early June, before the national media decamp to San Juan to watch, with translators if necessary, to see who the Democratic candidate for president is going to be.

[ajmarine1]

Posted by libra127 at 10:43 PM : Mar 05, 2008


Purerto Rico compared to some states; it doesn''t make sense.



Puerto Rico Caucus 63 delegates


Alabama Primary 60 delegates
Alaska Caucus 18 delegates
American Samoa Caucus 9 delegates
Arizona Primary 67 delegates
Arkansas Primary 47 delegates
California Primary 441 delegates
Colorado Caucus 71 delegates
Connecticut Primary 60 delegates
Delaware Primary 23 delegates
Georgia
Primary 103 delegates
Idaho Caucus 23 delegates
Illinois Primary 185 delegates
Kansas Caucus 41 delegates
Massachusetts Primary 121 delegates
Minnesota Caucus 88 delegates
Missouri Primary 88 delegates
New Jersey Primary 127 delegates
New Mexico Caucus 38 delegates
New York Primary 281 delegates
North Dakota Caucus 21 delegates
Oklahoma Primary 47 delegates
Tennessee Primary 85 delegates
Utah Primary 29 delegates
Democrats Abroad Primary 11 delegates

[libra127]

Also, why does Puerto Rico get more delegates than alot of states? What''s up with that?

Posted by AJMarine1 at 10:30 PM : Mar 05, 2008

I was surprised to see that too. Can it be just proportional to population? I also don''t understand how a candidate can "win" a state but receive fewer delegates than the opponent. That''s happened.

[jegibbons]

The dumb, dumb Dems had the GOP by the short & curlies and it''s only March and they''ve already blown it.
Can you imagine what the could do with four years in the White House?
SCARY real SCARY!

[samthetvcat]

oops I posted this in the wrong section:

I''m not sure why everybody keeps saying Pennsylvania is critical - what''''s the logic behind that? Hillary by all scenarios is STILL behind on pledged delegates INCLUDING re-dos in Florida and Michigan.

Is it because they''re buying into Hillary''s argument that she can win the more blue-collar states? Because that''s stupid - if all her supporters are concentrated in states that Barack can win without her, and she can''t win any other states but he can, then Democrats have a better chance of winning if we can toss her to the curb . . .

Am I missing something with the Pennsylvania argument? Because it would seem to me if Hillary wants to have a chance, she needs to prove herself this weekend in Wyoming which polls show Barack able to win but her losing in head to heads against McCain. It''s also a weak argument to claim caucuses don''''t matter - she wants to be CIC but can''t even out-organize somebody she claims is incompetent?

Given that Superdelegates are mostly elected officials and that by a two to one margin Democrats believe superdelegate votes ought to reflect the will of the people, that''s why Barack is saying Hillary can''t win unless she goes against the will of the people and that she''s not for democracy ...

[jegibbons]

Florida & Michigan pose interesting dilemmas for the Democratic Party operating within a small ''d'' democracy.
If they are do-overs likely Obama will gain enough to put him on top.
If they use the old results: it looks like the Clinton Machine will have spanked the party''s chairman BUT GOOD.
No good result here if you''re a loyal Democrat!

[ajmarine1]

I agreee the whole situation is unfortunate, but I don''''t think the voters should be disenfranchised, and I don''''t think a re-do breaks any rules.

Posted by libra127 at 10:19 PM : Mar 05, 2008


I''m not smart enough to figure out how they give out delegates, you would think winner should get all.

Also, why does Puerto Rico get more delegates than alot of states? What''s up with that?

[okiewhoopass]

I live in Michigan and am a registered Democrat. I had no say whatsoever about the date of our primary. This is not my fault and I''m tired of hearing that my vote doesn''t count. If the Democrats don''t want me to have a say in the choosing of our candidate, I will absolutely vote for McCain in November and hope all other Michigan Democrats will also. Let the message to the Democrat party be clear: Michigan will not be ignored or our state can go red!

[libra127]

Just change the rules whenever we want?

Posted by AJMarine1 at 09:54 PM : Mar 05, 2008

Changing the rules would be to count the early Florida primary already held. The DNC ruled Florida & Michigan could not hold their primary that early. There was no rule that they could not hold a primary later in the season. I agreee the whole situation is unfortunate, but I don''t think the voters should be disenfranchised, and I don''t think a re-do breaks any rules.

[ajmarine1]

Uh, no - for the benefit of the Democratic voters of Florida. They deserve a say. It looks like the primary will be held again. That''''s fair.

Posted by libra127 at 09:51 PM : Mar 05, 2008


Just change the rules whenever we want?

[libra127]

Let me see if I can uderstand this; we have a Republican governor of Florida, urging the Democratic Party to seat Democratic Party delegates from Florida for the benefit of Hillary Clinton.

Posted by mutmee at 08:56 PM : Mar 05, 2008

Uh, no - for the benefit of the Democratic voters of Florida. They deserve a say. It looks like the primary will be held again. That''s fair.

[samthetvcat]

"CBS News senior political correspondent Jeff Greenfield reports that the Clinton campaign may be thinking about asking for "re-dos" in the two states."

You know what''s the most socially irresponsible aspect of this is that yeah, Florida and Michigan broke the rules but at the same time everybody ought to be hear - but if the contests were to be held today, Michigan with Barack''s name on the ballot would be a virtual tie and Florida would be another narrow win for Hillary now that John Edwards is out.

Hence Hillary''s so pushy and so aggressive and so willing to do or say anything to win, she would have the taxpayers of Michigan and Florida shell out millions of dollars so she can win a net 5 or 10 delegates.

That Florida Governor made a brilliant move in terms of moving Florida ahead to become more relevant because even with half the delegates awarded, Florida basically locked the nomination in for McCain.

On the other hand, Howard Dean maybe didn''t make the best decision trying to use threats to get Michigan and Florida to do what he wanted. And the Michigan governor didn''t help Democrats in her state have their say . . . what''s with that?

[samthetvcat]

The utter gall of some people to try and cloak themselves in the banner of ''fairness'' and democracy'' in Florida of all places!

To urge that delegates be assigned as-is when the electorate had been told their votes would not be used to assigned delegates is as much of a case of disenfranchisement as to not allow the people of Florida and Michigan a re-vote. Because Florida and Michigan are 2 of only 5 states where turn-out was less on the Democrats side than Republicans - Alabama was virtually tied, and the other two were Romney''s and McCain''s home states . . .