Fla. Power Grid Snafu Causes Major Outages

Glitch Sends Blackouts Cascading Through State's Power Grid, Affects Up To 3 Million

(CBS/AP)  A relatively minor glitch in Florida's electrical grid somehow triggered a chain reaction Tuesday that caused a nuclear plant to shut down and briefly cut power in patches from Daytona Beach through the Florida Keys.

Up to 3 million people — about a fifth of Florida's population — lost power at various points during the afternoon, though there were no safety concerns at the nuclear plant. And while many areas were hit hard, the outages were short lived and only about 20,000 people lacked electricity during the evening commute home. Most of the evening outages were due to bad weather, not the grid problem, officials said.

An equipment malfunction in a substation near Miami disabled two power distribution lines between Miami and Daytona Beach, and in response, Florida Power & Light's Turkey Point nuclear plant south of Miami stopped operating around 1 p.m., Nuclear Regulatory Commission spokesman Kenneth Clark said.

The outage triggered a chain reaction through seven power plants, reports CBS News correspondent Kelly Cobiella. Lights flickered in the central part of the state, cascading north all the way to Tallahassee.

The utility was trying to determine what caused equipment failure and a fire at the substation, but the company said it was not the kind of problem that should have created the widespread blackouts.

Grid problems caused both Turkey Point reactors to shut down, said the utility's nuclear spokesman, Dick Winn.

"All the safety systems worked just like they were supposed to and both of those units are in stable condition right now," he said. Clark agreed the plant's safety was not in question.

The outages had no connection to terrorism, Homeland Security Department spokeswoman Laura Keehner said. Miami-Dade County Mayor Carlos Alvarez said the outages were technical, not criminal.

"It's a matter of just a cascading effect," he said.

Miami-Dade County felt the brunt of it, as 400 schools held students long after the last bell fearing the roads weren't safe enough for busses, reports Cobiella.

Florida emergency management officials said the outages cut power to 2 to 3 million people during the heat of a day that saw temperatures reach the 80s.

The federal nuclear commission said based on reports from its resident inspectors at the plant, the initial drop in voltage came from outside Turkey Point, but the problem worsened when the two reactors shut down, the panel said.

The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, which has responsibility for electricity grid reliability, said it wants to know whether there were any violations of federal grid reliability rules.

The sporadic outages spanned 300 miles of the peninsula but appeared to be concentrated in the southeast portion of the state, including Miami. Communities along the southwest coast, in the Florida Keys and as far north as Daytona Beach reported interruptions.

Miami International Airport, the Port of Miami and the area's rail and bus transportation were working normally, although some places briefly relied on generator power, officials said.

Several Miami-area hospitals switched to backup generators when the power went out. Miami-Dade schools were scheduled to be dismissed on time, and officials said school buses were running.

By 2 p.m., most of northern downtown Miami appeared to be back to normal operation, including a campus of Miami Dade College and numerous stores and businesses. In the Florida Keys, spokesman Andy Newman said areas were without power for about 30 minutes.

At a Starbucks in Miami's western suburb of Doral, employees began handing out sandwiches they feared would go bad.

Nelson Suarez, 35, a manager for Asia sales at World Fuel Services, enjoyed the free lunch.

"I can't work anyway since all the power is out, so at least something good came out of this," he said.

[shucks207]

oops

[robaldrich]

This is too much fun.

I didn''''t comment on the following, so here I go.

Someone said: robaldrich4, I''''''''m an electrical engineer and I do understand. And frankly, the word Chernobyl comes to mind. Or maybe three mile island. Or possibly the Space Shuttle Challenger....don''''''''t pretend that technology can''''''''t go wrong doof. It can, and if I had to choose between a gas-fired plant and a nuclear propelled one I''''''''ll go gas everyime.
--------

1. Already commented on Chernobyl.

2. Gee, Three Mile island proved U.S. nuclear reactors are safe . . . thanks in part to the "NEGATIVE void coefficient" design. Despite multiple human errors, the plant safely shutdown. Despite imbecilic hearsay to the contrary, the nuclear release was so small that taking a coast to coast flight will expose you to a higher radiation dose than the most extreme possible exposure from TMI (40,000 feet closer to the sun and less atmospheric protection).

To be continued . . .

Rob

[robaldrich]

continued . . .

3. Whats the Space Shuttle have to do with this? I don''''t know of any exploding rocket fuel at nuclear plants. Even if there were, the explosion of rocket fuel would not breach the containment vessel.

4. What about all that radiation in natural gas

Extra. Coal fired power plants put out more radiation than allowed from nuclear power plants. Coal is radioactive, but unregulated from a radiation perspective. Burning it releases radiation.

Maybe what should "come to mind" is the vast amounts of safe (hasn''''t killed anyone yet - as opposed to the thousands a month dying from coal fired plant exhaust), clean power being generated by the 103 nuclear plants in the U.S., or nuclear subs, or nuclear aircraft carriers.

Rob

[robaldrich]

Someone said: robaldrich4, I''''m an electrical engineer and I do understand. And frankly, the word Chernobyl comes to mind.
------

Sir, electrical engineering is not nuclear engineering. The Chernobyl reactor design was a "positive void coefficient" design. That design is illegal in the United States. Thus, Chernobyl has NOTHING to do with U.S. reactor safety.

Further, the Chernobyl incident occurred because the military shut down the reactor''s safety systems to run a military experiment. The United States doesn''t do that either.

Rob

[thomderr]

This wasn''t a cold shut down of Turkey Point. The electricity generated was simply ''not sent out over the power grid'' to avoid a possible feedback.

[demslie]

Great, the conspiracy theorists are alive and well today. GWB did it.

Posted by squidly8

You are absolutely right. When the tiger got loose from his cage at the San Franciso Zoo and killed one person, there were Democrat conspiracy theorists right here at CBS (Communist Broadcast System) who found a way to blame it on Bush. And this is the New Change for America that Saddam Hussein OBAMA, Hitlery and the Democrats have promised us.

[perrycbs1]

Part 2

I am not sure how many people understand the degree of redundant systems in a nuclear plant that are designed to prevent a serious problem; and to protect the health and safety of the public.

What happens when something goes wrong?

Recently my plant had a power cable fail that provided power from the grid to the plant for all the key %u201Csafety related%u201D AC electrical equipment. This is formally called a Loss of Offsite Power.

Here is what happened:

1) 4 emergency diesel generators auto started. 2 of them auto loaded and all of the key %u201Csafety related%u201D AC electrical equipment was auto sequenced back on. A few minutes interruption in power (and in use of that equipment) does not provide a significant upset to the plant, nor has any real safety significance (things cannot go bad that fast; even in the worst case).

Only 1 diesel would be needed to power all the key %u201Csafety related%u201D equipment; and the operators could have manually started the diesel and manually turned on all of the equipment and still have protected the plant.

2) Over a day later, when it was determined that the problem was not something that could be fixed in a short period of time; a scheduled and routine shutdown of the plant occurred.

I can point to multiple independent systems that are designed to automatically contain all kinds of possible problems. Also, it%u2019s not easy to criticize the NRC inspection process after you have gone through several of them.

[perrycbs1]

To lpoole5 & others:

Part 1

I am not going to claim that a significant event cannot happen at a nuclear power plant; but, I believe that it would be very rare and the possibility of it having a significant effect on people is minuscule. 3 Mile Island both demonstrated the key problem that existed in the US (which I believe has been fixed in the US). Chernobyl demonstrated the same problem elsewhere; and I believe most countries have adopted the US solution.

The key problem: The operators should not try to save a plant (keep it online) when things are going wrong. Just let the automatic safety systems take over and ensure that they work and the plant is safely shutdown before doing anything. In both 3 Mile Island and Chernobyl the plant operators intentionally turned of (or disabled) safety features that were designed to protect the core as they were focused on keeping the power plant operating. The plants were safe, were designed correctly, and neither event would have occurred if the operators had just let the automatics take over.

3 Mile Island was also a huge success in that the US had insisted on expensive containment buildings in the event that something really bad did go wrong. The containment building worked. People get more radiation from flying on a routine business trip or on a vacation than people got that lived adjacent to 3 Mile Island. Chernobyl was a true disaster because there was no containment building.

[squidly8]

Perrycbs is describing selective tripping. You want the breaker closest to the fault tripped off to isolate it. You want your hairdryer to trip the GFI in the bathroom instead of the main breaker to your house or your street or neighborhood or town. Somehow the switch fault tripped the "town". BTW, this switch is not like a light switch, it is much larger and far more complicated.

[squidly8]

Great, the conspiracy theorists are alive and well today. GWB did it.

[lpoole5]

Uh, the "resident ispectors" at Turkey Point Nuke Plant assure us nothing wrong there, all is just Peachy Keen, folks. They "inspect" all the time.

Yeah: You mean, like the "resident inspector" at that MEAT PACKING PLANT in Calif., which supplies cow meat to MILLIONS of American School Kids, & to Senior Citizens feeding programs?

Gee! Isn''t it terrific that Homeland Security tells us it wasn''t TERRORISTS? I mean, BUSH says "We haven''tbeen attacked domestically since 9/11"!

And even if we HAVE been attacked since 9/11, the BUSH Regime would COVER IT UP, keep it SECRET, like they have everything else! (3 Oil Refinery EXPLOSIONS & FIRES, so far, since 9/11, & we are supposed to believe that all 3 Explosions & Fires at such vital targets as OIL REFINERIES, were "ACCIDENTS"? ALL 3??

Even if we ARE attacked in the near Future (i.e., BEFORE the Presidential Election), theBush Regime sure ss HELL won''t tell the MEDIA, or the American PEOPLE!! (Well, maybe they''ll tell their buddies over at FOX NEWS, Karl Rove or Rupert Murdock or Tony Snow)

If the Gov''t. repeats a "BIG LIE" often enough, & get the NEWS MEDIA to also repeat it, WE WIN!

Remember: They told the people living near THREE MILE ISLAND, that it was perfectly "SAFE" too!

[enlightenu]

SNAFU - Situation Normal, All ******* Up

[perrycbs1]

CBS has now changed the headline to a more appropriate one.

Concerning reliability & Utility efficiency. There are federal standards that have not changed much in decades about how many spinning reserves and how much back-up high voltage transmission you need. Something did not work - or something is not right in this case.

[newsjunky5]

Power companies are more efficiently run now than ever through privatization. For those who are unhappy about blackouts, you need to know that redundancy and maintenance in a power system is inefficient. All you get for all that is reliability. Where is the money in that? You''ll still consume as much, as you''ll do the laundry when the power comes back on, and the fridge and AC will work just as hard to remove all that heat that''s built up. So it''s more efficient, and the bottom line of the utility is lower than it''s ever been

[perrycbs1]

The headline is very misleading:

I currently work in the Nuclear Power industry (not in Florida), and prior to that worked in coal fired power plants. When I left work this afternoon it was with the understanding that Turkey Point (both reactors) had tripped as a result of the loss of the transmission lines needed to transmit the power to the state of Florida.

The Turkey Point Power Station also has 3 coal fired power plants; and they also shut down for the same reason.

This outage had nothing to do with the nuclear plants; other than they were affected. Nuclear and fossil plants are well designed to safely handle this type of loss of transmission and safely trip offline.

Transmission line failures, for various reasons, are not that uncommon; nor that they cause isolated power plants to trip.

What is uncommon is that their were not sufficient redundant back-up lines in service to maintain power to most of the area and maintain most power plants to stay online (to have all the Turkey Point plants - fossil and nuclear trip due to lack of transmission lines is quite the accomplishment - and not in a good way).

What is wrong with our transmission line infrastructure? That is the real question.

[newsjunky5]

"Doesn''''t anyone ask tough questions anymore?"
---------------------------------

Not if they want to keep their jobs. Did you know that the seating in the White House pressroom is arranged so conservative news organizations are in front, PBS in the back? They won''t get called on/an interview if they don''t play ball. And if they don''t get called on/an interview they can''t be a journalist.

[perrycbs1]

The headline is very misleading:

I currently work in the Nuclear Power industry (not in Florida), and prior to that worked in coal fired power plants. When I left work this afternoon it was with the understanding that Turkey Point (both reactors) had tripped as a result of the loss of the transmission lines needed to transmit the power to the state of Florida.

The Turkey Point Power Station also has 3 coal fired power plants; and they also shut down for the same reason.

This outage had nothing to do with the nuclear plants; other than they were affected. Nuclear and fossil plants are well designed to safely handle this type of loss of transmission and safely trip offline.

Transmission line failures, for various reasons, are not that uncommon; nor that they caused isolated power plants to trip.

What is uncommon is that their were not sufficient redundant back-up lines in service to maintain power to most of the area and maintain most power plants to stay online (to have all the Turkey Point plants - fossil and nuclear trip due to lack of transmission lines is quite the accomplishment - and not in a good way).

[squidly8]

Keith, I believe I saw on navytimes.com a couple of days ago that they are getting ready to decommission that last diesel sub next year. It has probably just been sitting next to a pier for several years anyway

I was a Navy nuclear trained machinist on a sub several years ago. Nuclear is the way to go - sorry Floydzepp. Chernobyl could not happen in the USA as it was a graphite reactor which can burn. That is the exact reason why US nuclear plants are not a graphite moderated core. We use pressurized water or boiling water reactors.

The anti-nuclear argument in the USA is strictly one of fear. Go ahead, raise your hand if you have never give it a second thought about getting an xray at the dr or dentist? Fly on a plane? Lived in a house with a radon problem? All of these things that we dont give a second thought to absolutely expose us to increased radiation levels. Commercial nuclear programs in the USA are extremely safe - it is time to stop the fear mongering.

[redstripe11]

An equipment malfunction in a substation near Miami disabled two power distribution lines between Miami and Daytona Beach, and in response, the Turkey Point nuclear plant south of Miami stopped operating around 1 p.m.

As you cansee, that IS the way it happened

Posted by mikebeat1 at 06:58 PM : Feb 26, 2008

I always believe everything I read on the internet, in the news and definitely what my government tells me.

Why do we continually accept this *** that is spoonfed us through press releases and paid PR people who''s job it is to hide the truth and protect the company? Doesn''t anyone ask tough questions anymore?

[keithle1]

Doesn''t take much to shut us down. Just turn off the electricity.

Two questions:

Can we get by with no nuclear power at all?

Do we have any subs that aren''t powered by nuclear power?

Thank you.