Texas System Worries Clinton Backers

Washington Post: State's Convoluted Rules Include Combination Of Primary, Caucuses

(Washingtonpost.com)  This story was written by Matthew Mosk.

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Supporters of Sen. Hillary Clinton are worried that convoluted delegate rules in Texas could water down the impact of strong support for her among Hispanic voters there, creating a new obstacle for her in the must-win presidential primary contest.

Several top Clinton strategists and fundraisers became alarmed after learning of the state's unusual provisions during a closed-door strategy meeting this month, according to one person who attended.

What Clinton aides discovered is that in certain targeted districts, such as Democratic state Sen. Juan Hinojosa's heavily Hispanic Senate district in the Rio Grande Valley, Clinton could win an overwhelming majority of votes but gain only a small edge in delegates. At the same time, a win in the more urban districts in Dallas and Houston -- where Sen. Barack Obama expects to receive significant support -- could yield three or four times as many delegates.

"What it means is, she could win the popular vote and still lose the race for delegates," Hinojosa said yesterday. "This system does not necessarily represent the opinions of the population, and that is a serious problem."

The disparity in delegate distribution is just one of the unusual aspects of Texas's complex system for apportioning delegates. The scheme has been in use for two decades but is coming under increased scrutiny because the March 4 presidential contest is the first in years that gives the state a potentially decisive voice in choosing the party's nominee.

Under rules described in the 37-page Texas delegate selection plan, two-thirds of the state's 228 delegates will be chosen based on the vote in each of 31 state Senate districts. The remaining delegates will be chosen based in part on the outcome of caucuses held on election night after the polls close.

Texas Democratic Party officials said there is a good reason that some senatorial districts yield two or three delegates while others yield seven or, in one Austin district, eight. The numbers are determined by a formula that is based on the number of voters in each district who cast ballots for Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.) in the 2004 presidential campaign and for Chris Bell, the Democratic nominee for governor in 2006.

The higher the turnout in each district in those years, the more delegates the district will get to select this year, explained Boyd Richie, the state party chairman.

"It's not that anyone's trying to penalize anyone," Richie said. "That's the last thing I want to do. What I want to do is encourage people to come back and vote. We want to have everybody participate."

But Sen. Eddie Lucio Jr., a Clinton supporter who represents the heavily Hispanic southern tip of Texas, said the party's formula fails to account for areas where general-election turnout may have been low but turnout for competitive primaries was much higher.

He said his district, which will yield three delegates on March 4, fits that description. Sen. Mario V. Gallegos Jr., another Clinton supporter whose largely Hispanic district will yield just three delegates, says his follows that pattern as well.

"We usually don't have contested general-election contests here," Gallegos said. "I've always questioned that formula, but I've always been given the same answers: 'That's the rules.' I think we need to look at it. I think there's a disparity there that we need to work out for future races."

He noted that the same turnout-based formula that determines how many delegates emerge from the primary vote will also dictate how many delegates can be won in the caucuses -- further diminishing the influence of voters in those areas.

The caucuses have also given rise to a separate concern, according to several top Texas Democrats interviewed last week. Because the state's Democratic Party has been out of power for years, leaders have struggled to find precinct chairs to oversee all of the 8,000 locations where caucuses will be held.

If it is time for the caucus and there is no precinct chair, party officials decided, the task of overseeing the vote will fall to the first person who collects the packet of materials used to run the caucus.

"The first person in the door picks it up and controls it," said state Sen. Eliot Shapleigh, a Clinton supporter who represents the El Paso area. "So the rules are designed to create a race to the packet. You can imagine what that might look like."

Party officials said most of the duties involved in running the events are routine and are clearly spelled out in the rules provided. But there are instances in which the person chairing the event can influence the outcome, party officials said. For instance, the rules say that only people who vote March 4 can attend that evening's caucus events. If a caucusgoer says he voted but does not show up on the rolls, the organizer has the authority to include or dismiss him.

Hinojosa saw another reason for Clinton to be concerned about the caucuses: The working-class voters who have typically favored her candidacy could be too tired or too busy to vote during the day and then return after 7 p.m. to attend a caucus.

"Anytime you require additional steps, that means extra effort, and that's particularly hard on working families," Hinojosa said.

While Richie said he recognizes those concerns, he does not think Texas will lack enthusiastic voters and caucusgoers.

Early voting, which typically makes up one-third of the ballots cast, will begin Tuesday. That could help reduce crowding at the polls March 4, but Richie says he is not sure what to expect.

"I think all the old models are out the window," he said. "I expect we're going to set a new state record."

[b-easy63]

Well--Clinton will like the rules well enough if she wins--we see a pattern here--complain when she thinks the rules will hurt her (complaining late in the day) champion/defend or defy the rules--if she thinks it will help her--like keeping her name on a ballot after pledging not to campaign or even acknowledge contests in MI and FL. IN other words--Clinton and her whiners are already setting up her defense if she fails--it was all unfair--sort of like her keeping her name on a ballot--after every other candidate took theirs off due to the promise they made--woman is sleazy and dishonest and so are the people who defend her.

[prinzowhales]

Apparently, the openly corrupt system in New Hampshire exposed this year and in 2004 was no problem for them...or, the Ohio system in which two people are in jail for helping Kerry surrender the State to Bush in the 2004 election before he jetted off to party with Schwartzenegger in Colorado.

Obama ignored the theft of several percentage points from his totals in New Hampshire to help bolster Hillary''s flagging fortures in this electoral farce.

Enjoy a continuation of your Demopublican wars in Asia and the price of energy...you booming economy and soaring stock market...if you hold your charts upside down.

Surge on! Demopublicans...Surge on! Baaaaahhh!

[ewroot]

Good God, what a bunch of incompetents! Alarmed? Like they didn''t know the rules? This is a campaign? Meanwhile, Obama''s people have it all sussed out.

Clinton''s arrogance astounds me. And hey, Mark Penn, I''ve got a free bus ticket to Hawaii for you...

[Keypinitreel1]

Why dont Hillary just run for President of Mexico.

The reason why her support is so high amongst Latinos is because they put 2 and 2 together and figure that her health plan with its costs will cover everone.. even Illegals.

Not to mention the rumored, famous Latino Absentee voting block. Where the hell are they voting from... Mexico City?

[neobrian-2009]

Backers are Accountable
.. sleazy and dishonest and so are the people who defend him.

Posted by b-easy63 at 09:42 AM : Feb 18, 2008
----------------------
All Shrubbies and Bushbots should be water-boarded and deemed insane.There money should be used for national health care or ''energy development''.
This Corrupt GOP sect has to be Eradicated. If not,the Evil roots will spread like the hanging chad-moss of the bigot-filled redneck nation.This being the hypocritical South of course.
Friends NEVER let friends vote republiCon.

[truthspeake2]

"The disparity in delegate distribution is just one of the unusual aspects of Texas''s complex system for apportioning delegates. The scheme has been in use for two decades but is coming under increased scrutiny because the March 4 presidential contest is the first in years that gives the state a potentially decisive voice in choosing the party''s nominee."


So now what, does she want to change the rules of the game or will she cry again to get the rules changed???

[jwind11]

All Shrubbies and Bushbots should be water-boarded and deemed insane.There money should be used for national health care or ''''energy development''''.
This Corrupt GOP sect has to be Eradicated. If not,the Evil roots will spread like the hanging chad-moss of the bigot-filled redneck nation.This being the hypocritical South of course.
Friends NEVER let friends vote republiCon.


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Posted by neobrian


And you are how old?

[neobrian-2009]

Windy,...Why does it matter how old I am?
Does age give a Better Value to a vote ?

[jack3213]

Alot of the strife and chaos stems from the media''s involvement and their lack of telling facts over fiction, and their insane ability to exaggerate and spin politics. People can be gullable and easily influenced, which in itself is a shame, but reality is that so many people believe what they read and hear. The first amendment gives us the right to free speech, and this won''t change, however, there is the fact of ethical & moral values and respect. In conclusion, make your own judgement, dont assume to think the media has the answers. Read history and go with your gut. If it is too good to be true it usually is. The Democrats are promising not only things they cannot deliver but alot of what they want is detromental and disaterious to the USA. The child like behaviour of these candidates proves they are not qualified let alone experianced.

[creeper00]

It figures. Texas'' politics are more fouled up than any other state, even Florida.

What else would you expect from the state that elected George W. Bush and then foisted him off on the rest of us?

[jwind11]

Windy,...Why does it matter how old I am?
Does age give a Better Value to a vote ?



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Posted by neobrian

as immature as your post sounded, you can''t be over 18..

[klingon69]

So now what, does she want to change the rules of the game or will she cry again to get the rules changed???
Posted by truthspeake2 at 09:53 AM : Feb 18, 2008
Hmm, now that it might hurt her campaign, she wants the rules changed that have been in place and working for 20 years? Weren''t these the same rules when Bill was running for office?

[repdemapart]

OBAMA Plagiarizes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M6x1H08aFc

[taddles-2009]

"The working-class voters who have typically favored her candidacy could be too tired or too busy to vote during the day and then return after 7 p.m. to attend a caucus.

"Anytime you require additional steps, that means extra effort, and that''s particularly hard on working families," Hinojosa said. "


Aww...are the poor Texans too tired to come out to the caucuses? Gee, all the other people in all the other states that have had caucuses haven''t been tired...maybe it''s something in the water in Texas that makes them such wimps.

[taddles-2009]

"The child like behaviour of these candidates proves they are not qualified let alone experianced.

Posted by jack3213 at 10:03 AM : Feb 18, 2008"

Oh please, so swift-boating your own parties candidates as the Republicans have done to McCain is ok and mature. $crew you.

[taddles-2009]

"as immature as your post sounded, you can''''t be over 18..

Posted by jwind11 at 10:04 AM : Feb 18, 2008"

Old enough to vote, old enough to express an opinion.

[MIpapaof4]

Navada????

[MIpapaof4]

Navada---Naxas

[klingon69]

It figures. Texas'''' politics are more fouled up than any other state, even Florida.

What else would you expect from the state that elected George W. Bush and then foisted him off on the rest of us?
Posted by creeper00 at 10:03 AM : Feb 18, 2008
Well, it''s been working for us for at least 2 decades, only now is it coming under scrutiny. Now that it may cost madame witch the candidacy.
WAAAAAAAA, Boo effin Hoo.

[jjp735i]

One would like after 2001 each party would have set rules that are equal and benefit the voter. Yet again, each party does what it always does and ignores a problem that everyone can see.

Rules should be the same in all States since this is a party run function.

[neobrian-2009]

Ha Ha Ha !!
You `re Not a Very good Handicapper Windy !
But,You only Know what Rush tells you,..I`m retired and on my way to see my CPA now.Time to give more ''Tax cash for W`s Oil buddies'',..Like You.
Hope you can grow older too,..a hint,.Think for yourself. Shrub,Dead-eye Dicck and the cronies won`t always be here for you.

[klingon69]

Aww...are the poor Texans too tired to come out to the caucuses? Gee, all the other people in all the other states that have had caucuses haven''''t been tired...maybe it''''s something in the water in Texas that makes them such wimps.
Posted by taddles at 10:08 AM : Feb 18, 2008
AWWWWWW, We have more importatnt things to do than chase politicians, things like dinner, and prime-time tv.

[taddles-2009]

"Not if you are a voter from Michigan, Florida, Navada, or South Texas.

Posted by trapbreak at 10:09 AM : Feb 18, 2008"

Michigan and Florida knew the rules a year in advance and intentionally broke them. Texas has had their apportionment rules in place for over 20 years and now people want to change them? So what you''re really saying is you don''t like to follow the rules...you sound like a Bush supporter, they like to make up the rules as they go along too.

[MIpapaof4]

Where is all this intelligence coming from??? Can''t spell. How or why should we care what you even think? Opinions are like a$$ holes. Do you know what a cowboy hat and hemorrhoids have in common? Only a$$ can have them!!!

[earleccs]

This country has not forgotten the past and the antics of the Clinton%u2019s. We are now seeing a repeat of it again. We all must throw our support behind Obama by not voting at all we are guaranteeing a win for Clinton. We may be left with the lesser of two evils but a vote for Clinton is a repeat of a hell that I cannot stomach.

[taddles-2009]

"We have more important things to do than chase politicians, things like dinner, and prime-time tv.

Posted by Klingon69 at 10:16 AM : Feb 18, 2008"

I was being sarcastic...please tell me you were too. ;o)

[jwind11]

Ha Ha Ha !!
You `re Not a Very good Handicapper Windy !
But,You only Know what Rush tells you,..I`m retired and on my way to see my CPA now.Time to give more ''''Tax cash for W`s Oil buddies'''',..Like You.
Hope you can grow older too,..a hint,.Think for yourself. Shrub,Dead-eye Dicck and the cronies won`t always be here for you.


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Posted by neobrian

I rest my case

[klingon69]

I was being sarcastic...please tell me you were too. ;o)
Posted by taddles at 10:18 AM : Feb 18, 2008
Of course, seven course...mmmmmmmmmm, steak....

[drputt45]

Hey, Texas politics worry Texans too! What are you going to do? Every time someone doesn''t like the rules, change them? It is OK to question the rules for future elections, but the rules are the rules.

Here in Texas, the Dems don''t like the division for districts for representatives. It was changed a few years ago for the benefit of the Reps. But instead of staying and fighting for their rights, the Dems packed up and left the state, twice! Maybe they understand why Texas doesn''t think too highly of Dems. That is not our style to hide our heads.

I will vote in the primary and I will stay up for the caucus because it means something to me. I won''t run and hide like a lot of Dems have done in the past.

[Marie Zarankevich]

From what I''ve read, it seems to me that the PIPs (People - In - Power)have got a very convenient way of manipulating our voting mechanism to their liking. Not too comfortable with that. Makes my lip twitch.

[jack3213]

It would be incredible if Texans saw the relevance of leaning to the right, the fact remains Bush is from Texas, and though not popular, he should be given credit for those things he has done well with. For example, being the President when not only Sudam Hussein was cpatured and killed, but other evil terrorists. Under Bush Al Quida military has diminshed over half and not another attack has occured since 9-11. Both Democrats are NOT QUALIFIED nor EXPERIANCED and will not be good for this country. Period.

[andersenme]

DISPATCHES FROM THE GROUND WAR ...

THE CINCINNATI ENQUIRER IS REPORTING ...

OHIO GOP ROOTS FOR HILLARY
Cincinnati Enquirer
Howard Wilkinson
February 18, 2008 09:11 AM

One of the worst-kept secrets of the Ohio presidential primary is that Republican Party leaders have a candidate they are rooting for on the Democratic side.

Her name is Hillary Rodham Clinton; and they believe that if she wins the Ohio primary and goes on to become the Democratic nominee, she will be the one who unites their dispirited and divided party and gives them their best chance of keeping the White House this fall. ...


MARTIN EDWIN "MICK" ANDERSEN

[vet999999]

This is hilarious....the democraty party designed their primary processes and now they don''t even have confidence in their own system....and they want to be president....wonderful.

[joyous88]

jack3213

you are a neo con liar, there have been thousands of terroist attacks all over the world since your idiot president had the mindless christian voteer got him close enough to steal two american election

bush is a war criminal he belongs in prison

take a look at the bush crime family, wealth elites , hes grannsfather and great grand father were politicians as well,

this family has been collecting welfare for the wealthy at the government trough for generations;

[jerkeedoodle]

What''s the big deal.Clinton doesn''t like the rules,what else is new?Her and Bill make me long for the old days................when you could pelt a politician with tomatoes and eggs without fear of repercussion!

[joyous88]

drputt

you are another neocon liar, the dems did not hide, they were portrayed that way by clowns on the right wind,

you ''''tom delay'''' criminal politicians and arnchair war hawks should get a life

[glossypan]

One person - one vote would seemn to be the benchmark for democracy. Yet we have the electoral college, gerrymandered Congressional districts, and the US Senate - Idaho the same number of Senators as California, absurd if you want true democracy.
That our Democratic Party has superdelegates and arcane rules for state primaries and caucuses is a slap in the face for those of us who believe in equality.

[joyous88]

the criminal and bush buddie ,tom delay, changed the texas system when it would benefit the republicons

now you clowns think that the democrats should not do the same things that are good enough for your republicon clown friends.

what a bunch of sissy whiners, any of you clowns real veterans or are you all like ''bush'' the draft dodgeing
hide in the guard kind

[joyous88]

any of you Texans notice haow often your buddie, Ted Haggard, Jeff Gannon and Larry Craig were visiting the White House at the same time???

Looks like some one at the White House was having an all boy love fest,, bush will deny of course

[DCropp]

It''s interesting how this system was good when Bill Clinton ran. Now, it''s wrong. The Clintons should have pointed out the problems when they were in power.

They must have been too busy sending jobs overseas with NAFTA and the China Trade agreements.

[realpatriot1]

vet999999,

It wasn''t just the Democrats who mucked things up in Texas. The apportioments are based upon Congressional districts, as they are in most other states.

Tom Delay and the GOP gerrymandered the Congressional districts into a totally contorted fashion so as to water down the effect of both Hispanic and African-American voters over a range of districts.

The idea of apportioning dlegates based upon prior turnout and awarding a portion of delegates through a caucus is not necessarily a bad system, it just doesn''t fit Hillary''s needs of the moment.

It''s clear that if she pulls out a win in Wisconsin it won''t be by a wide enough margin to change the delegate dynamics by itself and this shows that Texas won''t do it either.

The Super delegates pledged to her keep being whittled away on an almost daily basis.

Her only chance, and it''s still a fair chance, is to win by huge margins in Ohio and Pennsylvania where she has the support of Democratic Governors and large numbers of working class voters.

She won''t attain the numbers by telling people why not to vote for Obama, she''ll only pull through by giving voters a new reason to support her affirmatively.

[Marie Zarankevich]

In case nobody noticed, our intelligence communities and our generals run the military. The President''s role as Commander in Chief is a figurehead position. Every president elected cannot be a war hero or military strategy expert. That''s what our system of government is good at, dividing responsibility. Keeps us from looking like a room full of fallen dominoes, which often happens when a leader falls or fails in other countries not so well prepared. Like the bunny, we just keep on going.................

[craigh9]

When Hillary wins she wins because of her - not Bill, not the party bosses, and certainly not because the system is unfair. But when she loses, everything is unfair. Get real woman, the rules are the same for everyone - you knew them going in - and now that your in trouble your looking for loopholes. If you were a true Democrat and cared for what happens to our country over the next 4 years you would drop out and let the party unite behind the candidate with the best chance to beat the republicans - BUT YOU WON''T BECAUSE YOUR HILLARY AND YOUR PRIVILEGDED

[jack3213]

Joyous88 said:"there have been thousands of terroist attacks all over the world since your idiot president had the mindless christian voteer got him close enough to steal two american election"

BUT NONE IN THE USA SINCE 9-11.Doesn''t this matter to YOU?!

[erasmus6]

"Well--Clinton will like the rules well enough if she wins--we see a pattern here--complain when she thinks the rules will hurt her..." posted by b-easy63

She has a right to complain. You have a whacky voting system.

[jerkeedoodle]

jack3213,I''d almost bet if we had to put up with Bush any longer,or even anyone like him,we''ll have more "attacks" here in the U.S.,but it won''t be arabs!

[jwind11]

jack3213,I''''d almost bet if we had to put up with Bush any longer,or even anyone like him,we''''ll have more "attacks" here in the U.S.,but it won''''t be arabs!


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Posted by Jerkeedoodle

Oh no!!! who will attack us?!!

[jerkeedoodle]

Aaaaah,the Clintons,How they make me long for the old days..................when you could pelt a politician with tomatoes and eggs without fear of repercussion!

[jerkeedoodle]

jwind11,Look around you,sweetie...

[jwind11]

jwind11,Look around you,sweetie...


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Posted by Jerkeedoodle

now i am scared!! what should i do!!!? how can we prevent this attack?!!!