DEKALB, Ill., Feb. 16, 2008

NIU Shooter Described As "Gentle, Quiet"

Steven Kazmierczak Struggled With Mental Illness; Duffel Bag Of Ammo Found In Hotel Room

    • This undated image obtained from a MySpace webpage shows Steven Kazmierczak, who was identified by Florida authorities and a university official familiar with the investigation as the gunman who killed five people at Northern Illinois University. Photo

      This undated image obtained from a MySpace webpage shows Steven Kazmierczak, who was identified by Florida authorities and a university official familiar with the investigation as the gunman who killed five people at Northern Illinois University.  (AP Photo)

    • Four of the five NIU shooting victims, clockwise from top-left: Catalina Garcia, Gayle Dubowski, Daniel Parmenter, Ryanne Mace Photo

      Four of the five NIU shooting victims, clockwise from top-left: Catalina Garcia, Gayle Dubowski, Daniel Parmenter, Ryanne Mace  (AP)

    • Erin Peterman, left, Hillary Roeder and Valerie Roeder gather around the makeshift memorial Friday, Feb. 15, 2008 after a Campus Vigil on Northern Illinois University campus in DeKalb, Ill. Photo

      Erin Peterman, left, Hillary Roeder and Valerie Roeder gather around the makeshift memorial Friday, Feb. 15, 2008 after a Campus Vigil on Northern Illinois University campus in DeKalb, Ill.  (AP Photo/Sue Ogrocki)

    • Flowers, candles, and small notes sit in the snow Friday, Feb. 15, 2008, on the campus of Northern Illinois University near Cole Hall. Photo

      Flowers, candles, and small notes sit in the snow Friday, Feb. 15, 2008, on the campus of Northern Illinois University near Cole Hall.  (AP Photo/Nam Y. Huh)

    • In this photo released Feb. 15, 2008, by the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is Steven Kazmierczak who was identified by Florida authorities and a university official familiar with the investigation as the gunman who killed six people at Northern Illinois University. Photo

      In this photo released Feb. 15, 2008, by the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is Steven Kazmierczak who was identified by Florida authorities and a university official familiar with the investigation as the gunman who killed six people at Northern Illinois University.  (AP Photo/University of Illinois)

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  • Play CBS Video Video Are More Guns The Answer?

    The NIU shooting was the most recent in a string of campus killing sprees. Now, as Randall Pinkston reports, lawmakers are considering allowing students to carry concealed weapons for protection.

  • Video Illinois Gov. On Shootings

    "CBS News RAW:" Illinois Governor Rod R. Blagojevich promised an investigation in the wake of the Northern Illinois University shooting rampage, and offered his condolences for the victims' families.

  • Video NIU President On Shooting

    "CBS News RAW": Northern Illinois University President Dr. John Peters updated media on the investigation into the campus shooting that left six dead, including an unidentified lone gunman.

  • Interactive Lecture Hall Horror

    Gunman opens fire at Northern Illinois University, kills five people before killing himself.

  • Timeline NIU Shooting Timeline

    Track events as former grad student opened fire in lecture hall at Northern Illinois University.

(CBS/AP)  Steven Kazmierczak checked into a hotel near campus three days before carrying out his deadly shooting spree at Northern Illinois University, paying cash and signing his name only as "Steven" on a slip of paper, according to the hotel manager.

Kazmierczak was last seen at the Travelodge - where he smoked cigarettes and downed energy drinks and cold medicine - on Tuesday, hotel manager Jay Patel said.

The Chicago Tribune reported that authorities found a duffel back that Kazmierczak had left in the room, the zippers glued shut. A bomb squad was called, but investigators found ammunition inside the bag, the newspaper reported, citing law enforcement sources.

Kazmierczak also left behind a laptop computer, which was seized by investigators, Patel told The Associated Press on Saturday.

"It's scary," said Patel, adding that he called police when he found the laptop and clothes, but "nobody's in the room."

The discoveries added to the puzzles surrounding Kazmierczak, a 27-year-old graduate student some called quiet, dependable and fun-loving who returned to his alma mater on Valentine's Day, leaving five people dead before turning a gun on himself.

A former employee at a Chicago psychiatric treatment center said Kazmierczak was placed there after high school by his parents. She said he used to cut himself, and had resisted taking his medications.

He also had a short-lived stint as a prison guard that ended abruptly when he didn't show up for work. He was in the Army for about six months in 2001-02, but he told a friend he'd gotten a psychological discharge.

Exactly what set Kazmierczak off - and why he picked his former university and that particular lecture hall - remained a mystery.

On Thursday, Kazmierczak, armed with three handguns hidden in his coat and a shotgun hidden in a guitar case, stepped from behind a screen on the lecture hall's stage and opened fire on a geology class, reports CBS News affiliate WBBM-TV in Chicago.

He killed five students before committing suicide.

University Police Chief Donald Grady said Friday that Kazmierczak had become erratic in the past two weeks after he stopped taking his medication.

"We were dealing with a disturbed individual who intended to do harm on this campus," NIU President John Peters said, reports WBBM.

University Police Chief Donald Grady said Friday that Kazmierczak had become erratic in the past two weeks after he stopped taking his medication.

Kazmierczak spent more than a year at the Thresholds-Mary Hill House in the late 1990s, former house manager Louise Gbadamashi told The Associated Press. His parents placed him there after high school because he had become "unruly" at home, she said.

Gbadamashi said she couldn't remember any instances of him being violent.

"He never wanted to identify with being mentally ill," she said. "That was part of the problem."

The attack was baffling to many of those who knew him.

"Steve was the most gentle, quiet guy in the world. ... He had a passion for helping people," said Jim Thomas, an emeritus professor of sociology and criminology at Northern Illinois who taught Kazmierczak, promoted him to a teacher's aide and became his friend.

Kazmierczak once told Thomas about getting a discharge from the Army.

"It was no major deal, a kind of incompatibility discharge - for a state of mind, not for any behavior," Thomas said. "He was concerned that that on his record might be a stigma."

Kazmierczak enlisted in September 2001, but was discharged in February 2002 for an "unspecified" reason, Army spokesman Paul Boyce said.

Quote

He never wanted to identify with being mentally ill.

Louise Gbadamashi,
Thresholds-Mary Hill House
He worked from Sept. 24 to Oct. 9 as a corrections officer at the Rockville Correctional Facility, a medium-security prison in Rockville, Ind. His tenure there ended when "he just didn't show up one day," Indiana prisons spokesman Doug Garrison said.

On Friday, investigators interviewed Kazmierczak's father in Lakeland, Fla., and his former girlfriend in Champaign, the Chicago Tribune reported. Investigators provided no details about what they may have learned. According to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the case is still under investigation, authorities were looking into whether Kazmierczak and the woman recently broke up.

A federal law enforcement official confirms to CBS NewsKazmierczak purchased four guns - two last week, two months ago -- at Tony’s Guns and Ammo in Champaign, Illinois.

He bought a Remington shotgun and a Glock 9mm handgun. He bought the two other handguns at the same shop - a Hi-Point .380 on Dec. 30 and a Sig Sauer on Aug. 6.

All four guns were bought legally from a federally licensed firearms dealer, said Thomas Ahern, a spokesman for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. At least one criminal background check was performed - Kazmierczak had no criminal record.

Kazmierczak had a State Police-issued FOID, or firearms owners identification card, which is required in Illinois to own a gun, authorities said. Such cards are rarely issued to those with recent mental health problems.

NIU President John Peters said Kazmierczak compiled "a very good academic record, no record of trouble" at the 25,000-student campus in DeKalb. He won at least two awards and served as an officer in two student groups dedicated to promoting understanding of the criminal justice system.

Kazmierczak (pronounced kaz-MUR-chek) grew up in the Chicago suburb of Elk Grove Village. He was a B student at Elk Grove High School, where school district spokeswoman Venetia Miles said he was active in band and took Japanese before graduating in 1998. He was also in the chess club.

Nobody answered the door Saturday morning at the Urbana home of Kazmierczak's sister, Susan. But sobs could be heard through the door of the Urbana home, where a statement was posted:

"Our heartfelt prayers and deepest sympathies are extended to the families, victims, and all other persons involved in the Northern Illinois University tragedy. We are both shocked and saddened. In addition to the loss of innocent lives, Steven was a member of our family. We are grieving his loss as well as the loss of life resulting in his actions."

At NIU, six white crosses were placed on a snow-covered hill around the center of campus, which was closed Friday. They included the names of four victims - Daniel Parmenter, Ryanne Mace, Julianna Gehant, Catalina Garcia. The two other crosses were blank, though officials have identified Kazmierczak's final victim as Gayle Dubowski.

By Friday night, dozens of candles flickered in packed snow at makeshift memorials around campus as hundreds of students, mostly wearing the school colors of red and black, packed a memorial service.

"It's kind of overwhelming. It feels strong, it feels like we're all in this together," said Carlee Siggeman, 18, a freshman from Genoa who attended the vigil with friends.


© MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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Add a Comment See all 151 Comments
by gkc99 February 16, 2008 10:07 AM PST
"ACCOKEEK, Maryland (AP) -- Seven people were killed early Saturday when a car plowed into people apparently gathered to watch a street race on a suburban two-lane road, police said.


Police examine a car involved in a Maryland drag-racing crash that killed seven bystanders.
The car went out of control on Route 210 around 3:40 a.m. and slammed into the crowd standing on the roadside, Prince George''s County Police Cpl. Clinton Copeland said. "



And where is the media blizzard about the driver of this car, what he thought about everything, why he was willing to endanger others for his obsession with high powered automobiles and driving fast?

Where is the media $hitstorm of cries to limit the power of automobiles?
Reply to this comment
by bwright923 February 16, 2008 10:22 AM PST
First off, I am not against handguns and am thinking about getting one myself. However, the street racing people knew they were putting themselves in an illigal and precarious position. Anything that happened was on them. The people at the college were just there trying to learn about rocks when some madman open fire.
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by flreason February 16, 2008 10:38 AM PST
With his mental health history, this person should never have been issued a gun license.

Arming students isn''t a solution. If students are allowed to carry guns, how many more disturbed, but undiagnosed, students might take similar action? More guns will only aggravate the situation, increase the availability of guns for students with mental health problems (access to friends and/or roommates guns), and result in more unnecessary deaths.

I''m a strong supporter of the Constitution, but I firmly believe that the wording that gun lobbyists want Americans to ignore--"A well-regulated MILITIA being necessary to the security of a free State..."--is specific in identifying that the right to bear arms is associated with state militias, which were volunteer units, like the national guard, that states could call upon in times of emergency. At the time the Constitution was framed, that was the only swift recourse for hostile military action by foreign nationals. Most settlers had to hunt game to supplement their food diets. The founding fathers couldn''t possibly envision the types of weapons that would later become available. I don''t believe a reasonable reading supports the intent of the framers to encourage citizens--especially untrained ones--to collect arsenals of weapons to be used on one another, rather than foreign/hostile enemies of the State, in the name of self-defense.
Reply to this comment
by linfinster February 16, 2008 10:44 AM PST
Where is the media $hitstorm of cries to limit the power of automobiles?

Posted by gkc99 at

LOL If you mean reducing the top speed on a car, that would be excellent! I would love to see 70 MPH a maximum, but you KNOW there will be people out there who who "soup" up their car. LOL
And I DO want guns out of peoples hands, but it seems more and more like the Old West and the police and the (unenforced) laws are no longer enough. I might just have to get me a little something just to feel safer should this country get any more insane! It''s disgusting! I don''t want the responsibility and I know that in order to keep mistakes from happening (that all gun owners should be doing) I''ll have to keep it locked away. So there goes the safety of home protection ..
Reply to this comment
by marcpcbs February 16, 2008 11:30 AM PST
I can%u2019t believe the cops said there were no red flags. I%u2019m not even in a gang and I know that most the time tattoos are more than just artwork. This guy had tons of red flags. We need to change the laws in three ways. 1) In addition to state laws, create a national set of regulations that applies in every state to purchase a gun. 2) Make it so that people under the age of 25 have to jump through additional hoops to purchase a gun. 3) Hold law enforcement partially accountable if steps one and two are mishandled.

The only way I can think of to make the DEA, the INS and the boys at ATF start doing their jobs is to make the nations doughnut shops off limits until further notice.
Reply to this comment
by fibonacci_ February 16, 2008 11:30 AM PST
I wish that the people who always say "he was such a nice guy" would at least sometimes tack on to the end of that statement "- before he did this".
Reply to this comment
by schwarzzennegger February 16, 2008 11:33 AM PST
People find the mostly positive description of this shooter in conflict with the fact that he premeditatively shot and killed 5 innocent students and seriously wounded many more. If you find this part confusing, then learn about a psychological phenomenon called "The Shadow" ( we all have one !) discussed extensively by C.G. Jung, and more recently in the books and workshops of Debbie Ford. A good book is "The Secret of the Shadow" and a new one due out March 11 is "Why Good People Do Bad Things". These books are very enlightening and helpful.
Reply to this comment
by ubrew12 February 16, 2008 11:48 AM PST
Face it. Ya wanna own an automobile in this country and we''ll make you jump through every hoop imaginable to prove you can do so safely. Ya wanna own a gun and as long as you''re not obviously nuts or have a prison record, buy as many as you can carry.

Insanity has been defined as doing the same thing over and over again... and expecting different results. Its not Kazmierczak that was crazy, its the society that only notices once he''s taken 5 people with him.
Reply to this comment
by marcpcbs February 16, 2008 11:52 AM PST


7 killed in racecar wreak. Where is the media $hitstorm of cries to limit the power of automobiles?

Posted by gkc99

How many lives would be saved if we could stop the carnage done by both cars and guns.
Reply to this comment
by tjd325 February 16, 2008 12:01 PM PST
Thomas Jefferson said "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
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by berettacx4 February 16, 2008 12:03 PM PST
Everyone is focusing on the guns in this case, but someone better be looking closely at the drug(s) he was on and whether they are contributing to the recent rash of shootings. Of course, the pharmaceutical companies are likely working overtime to make sure that doesn''t happen. God forbid they put their millions of dollars of investment at risk. Also, no one is talking about parenting in this case, or the possibility the guy was sexually abused as a kid by some sick ****-pervert. And for those of you advocating the elimination of guns (such as JesusFace above), do your homework before you make idiotic statements about the Second Amendment. Over the last two hundred years have determined conclusively that the founders intended the Second Amendment as an individual right. How is that you interpret the First Amendment as an individual right and not the Second? Let me also make something else very, very clear to you. As an NRA member, I will NEVER give up my guns...to you, or anyone else, because if that happens, freedom in this country will be dead and it will not be worth living here.
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by nothappyatall February 16, 2008 12:20 PM PST

Five died because of a nut with guns, lets ban guns right?
But the same day this happened, some 160 people died (a day on average) on the nation''s freeways and roads, so lets ban all automobiles and freeways...
Reply to this comment
by ponco seno February 16, 2008 12:38 PM PST
A former employee at a Chicago psychiatric treatment center said Kazmierczak was placed there after high school by his parents. She said he used to cut himself, and had resisted taking his medications.

He was in the Army for about six months in 2001-02, but he told a friend he''d gotten a psychological discharge.



Ohh SURE!!! Fun, Loving, Gentle and Quiet. Folks is time for some tough gun control policies.

Reply to this comment
by dredre2k February 16, 2008 12:38 PM PST
So the shooter kills 5 people and gets his picture plastered all over CBS... that''s what these crazy people want!
The media should keep the killer''s pic out of the news.
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by nolalou February 16, 2008 12:41 PM PST
nutsie11 , once again you prove your nickname is accurate, because your ideas are NUTS! You might as well advocate issuing a gun to every passenger as they board a plane, to discourage hijackings! Gun Fight at 30,000 Feet!

If some of those students in the classroom had a gun, all that would have resulted is exchange of gunfire between the students and the shooter, with even more casualties, as people are caught in the crossfire, especially with the panic in the room and students running for the exits!

This in one of those unfortunate cases where there was not much that could have been done to prevent this. Unlike the case at Virgina Tech, where the shooter had known mental problems that should have been warning signs, this kid was a ''model'' student on the Dean''s list, and had already graduated a year earlier.
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by fibonacci_ February 16, 2008 12:48 PM PST
"He was a really nice guy." - Oh.
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by nolalou February 16, 2008 12:51 PM PST
ilikecats1 , you are another one of those idiots repeating myths as facts, or twisting facts to your own purpose. In a country with 7 shootings one year, and 14 the next, you could make it sound much worse if you just quote percentages , without mentioning actual numbers! In the year 2000, there were 68 gun murders in the UK, and over 11 thousand in the USA!

Some NRA nuts claim if the government takes our guns, it will be the end of our freedom! Bull! There are many countries in the world with freedom and strict gun ownership laws. Australia comes imediatly to mind.



Reply to this comment
by fibonacci_ February 16, 2008 12:53 PM PST
nolalou, I tend to agree. People are way to simple-minded if their attitude is "Guns don''t kill people, people kill people." Life is more complicated than that.
Reply to this comment
by chemist308 February 16, 2008 1:21 PM PST
Nobody seems to remember what happened in 1997 at Pearl High School in Mississippi.

Let me refresh your memories:
"...He [Luke Woodham] filled the pockets with ammunition and took a handgun to the Pearl High School in Pearl, Mississippi...He had the incident planned out. He would start shooting students and continue until he heard police sirens in the distance. That would allow him time to get in his car and leave campus. From there he intended to go to the nearby Pearl Junior High School and start shooting again...What Woodham hadn%u2019t planned for was the actions of Assistant Principal Joel Myrick...He [Myrick] couldn%u2019t have a handgun in the school. But he did keep one locked in his vehicle in the parking lot...As Myrick headed back toward the school Woodham was in his vehicle headed for his next intended target. Myrick aimed his gun at the shooter. The teen crashed his car when he saw the gun. Myrick approached the car and held a gun to the killer who surrendered immediately..." [1]

References:
1: http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/04/when-mass-killers-meet-armed-resistance.html
Reply to this comment
by rudy654-2009 February 16, 2008 1:34 PM PST
Posted by erasmus6 at 01:06 PM

Yes, they keep saying there were no warning signs, and yet we find out that he got a psychological discharge. Then we find out he used to cut himself. And yet, he was free, completely free to buy guns.
Reply to this comment
by skyk-2009 February 16, 2008 1:39 PM PST
Some NRA nuts claim if the government takes our guns, it will be the end of our freedom! Bull! There are many countries in the world with freedom and strict gun ownership laws. Australia comes imediatly to mind.






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Posted by nolalou at 12:51 PM : Feb 16, 2008
+ report abuse

The fact is that ALL the G-7 Nations have strict gun control laws and the citizens of the country to our north enjoy much more freedom than we do. They also do NOT have these kind of things happen.
Reply to this comment
by shanev137 February 16, 2008 1:40 PM PST
It''s amazing how much face time and glorification these psycho scumbags get after slaughtering mobs of people.

You mediawhores are the ones to blame.

The bad karma is on you.

Reply to this comment
by skyk-2009 February 16, 2008 1:42 PM PST
In Australia today, police can enter your house and search for guns, copy the hard drive of your computer, seize records, and do it all without a search warrant. It''''s the law that police can go door to door searching for weapons that have not been surrendered in their much publicized gun buy back program. They have been using previous registration and firearm license lists to check for lapses and confiscate non-surrendered firearms.

http://www.haciendapub.com/
comm8.html


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Posted by ilikecats1 at 01:07 PM : Feb 16, 2008
+ report abuse

They have decided to have and ENFORCE tight gun laws. They do not just break down the doors or the like, they show a judge probable cause to enter those home''s, then do so. Regardless they are MUCH more successful with the number of Gun Related Deaths... in fact ALL the nations that have gun laws are better than we.
Reply to this comment
by skyk-2009 February 16, 2008 1:44 PM PST
It''''s amazing how much face time and glorification these psycho scumbags get after slaughtering mobs of people.

You mediawhores are the ones to blame.

The bad karma is on you.




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Posted by shanev137 at 01:40 PM : Feb 16, 2008
+ report abuse

All the more reason to deny him the right to keep and bare arms wouldn''t you say?
Reply to this comment
by skyk-2009 February 16, 2008 1:46 PM PST
Goes to show background checks are a joke,Anyone with cash can go to a GUN SHOW and pick up whatever they need.Lets do away with bad,unstable people,GUNS have nothing to do with it!I used to get in trouble alot when I was young,I have not even been pulled over by the cops or anything for 14yrs,yet some of you anti-gunners call me a whack job,thats ok, I like the attention!Just kidding,I am a nice guy with a foul mouth,SUE ME!


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Posted by nutsie11 at 01:41 PM : Feb 16, 2008
+ report abuse

Well how do you explain the FACT that all the nations in the Industrialized World have Gun Control and we have MORE Gun related death than all of them COMBINED?! Are they just better at "Controling" folks who have a mental Problem or have they found a way to prevent them from taking a gun and doing what this person did?
Reply to this comment
by shanev137 February 16, 2008 1:47 PM PST
skyk......gun control and the media''s love and glorification of psychotic people who murder mass numbers of people are two totally different issues.
Reply to this comment
by secundus2 February 16, 2008 1:52 PM PST
The balance between the rights of the mentally ill and the protection of society is completely out of kilter in the US. Turning somebody such as this patient loose without supervision on a university campus (NIU) with a few bottles of pills is outrageous. The same was true of the Va. Tech. killer and the furniture-store killer in Nebraska. Some of the mentally ill need to be separated from society, and they certainly need to be separated from guns. I say all this as a member of a family with mental illness among its members; compassion is one thing, but foolish indulgence is asking for continual catastrophe.
Reply to this comment
by skyk-2009 February 16, 2008 2:10 PM PST
skyk......gun control and the media''''s love and glorification of psychotic people who murder mass numbers of people are two totally different issues.


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Posted by shanev137 at 01:47 PM : Feb 16, 2008
+ report abuse

I don''t understand your point! As long as we have a free press then things like this are going to be reported. I SERIOUSLY doubt any American would want less from or press than they are doing NOW. They want to know who this guy is, why he did what he did and the circumstances behind it. It''s their right to know that. Now to a person who has a mental illness that process may well be something they crave and that again goes to my point. that''s all the more reason to deny him the Gun. This person WANT''s to die and the AMOUNT of recognition isn''t as important as his warped sense of justice. The targets are those who die and that has been proven over and over and over again.
Reply to this comment
by skyk-2009 February 16, 2008 2:12 PM PST
Can you imagine the chaos,if the govt. ever tried to go door to door and take our guns away,GET REAL!Man,it would be a total riot.I myself will fight to death over a stupid idea like that!!


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Posted by nutsie11 at 01:48 PM : Feb 16, 2008
+ report abuse

I remember when the radical Nut Cases here in the south said NO ONE would force them to sit with Blacks too. They would have a fight on their hands they could never win, it was said. Then along came the LAW...anyone involved with such actions are now subject to STIFF Prison time. It seems that time with "Big Bubba" changed the minds of those "Corragious" souls!
Reply to this comment
by fibonacci_ February 16, 2008 2:21 PM PST
"He was such a pleasant guy, nice to everyone - very gentle."
Reply to this comment
by sparks224 February 16, 2008 2:23 PM PST
How come I can''t have a rocket launcher?
If the purpose of the 2nd amenment is to overthrow the government, if we need to, these little pea shooters aren''t going to get the job done.
Reply to this comment
by fibonacci_ February 16, 2008 2:25 PM PST
"He cared about everyone and only wanted to do good. He was gentle and quiet. He helped the homeless. He put others before himself. He was such a great guy."
Reply to this comment
by tjd325 February 16, 2008 2:28 PM PST
Thomas Jefferson said "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
Reply to this comment
by sparks224 February 16, 2008 2:38 PM PST
"Thomas Jefferson said...."
Posted by tjd325

It''s great to see conservatives quoting Jefferson. Does this mean they finally accept the separation of church and state?
Reply to this comment
by erasmus6 February 16, 2008 2:45 PM PST
"I myself will fight to death over a stupid idea like that!!" posted by nutsie11

I rest my case. The fact that you would fight to the death over a stupid gun, says it all. The reason that you guys have such a problem is because of whack jobs like you.
Reply to this comment
by rudy654-2009 February 16, 2008 2:46 PM PST
Posted by tjd325 at 02:28 PM

Maybe the almighty Thomas Jefferson can come back from the grave and tell us why the US ranks higher than any other western nation in homicide.
Reply to this comment
by sparks224 February 16, 2008 2:47 PM PST
Guns don''t kill people. "Gentle, quiet" guys with guns kill people.
Reply to this comment
by fibonacci_ February 16, 2008 2:54 PM PST
"He was just such a lovely person."
Reply to this comment
by erasmus6 February 16, 2008 2:59 PM PST
rudy654

My post at 1:06 has disappeared. I don''t know what happened to it. I don''t think anyone would have reported it because I don''t think I swore or anything.:)
Reply to this comment
by saralee55 February 16, 2008 3:15 PM PST
Everyone is subject to mental illness at any point in their life. It is again, unfortunate that this young man slipped through the cracks, and his "friends" that saw him behaving erratically lately did not get him help or call the police. We never know what will push any of us "over the edge".
Reply to this comment
by rudy654-2009 February 16, 2008 3:30 PM PST
Posted by ilikecats1 at 03:14 PM

What''s with the cut and pasting? Does Canada have problems? No doubt. Does the US outrank them in per capita homicide? By FAR! 2.04 per 100,000 vs. 5.6 per 100,000. Mind you, people can still own firearms in Canada.
Reply to this comment
by rudy654-2009 February 16, 2008 3:38 PM PST
Posted by ilikecats1 at 03:32 PM

You cut and paste in order to put down Canada, yet why? What''s with that? What are you trying to prove?
Reply to this comment
by mrbrill February 16, 2008 3:47 PM PST
I love how it looks like some legislature is considering a bill to allow concealed hand-weapons on campus... What a brilliant solution. We''ll return to how things were in the old western days... and we all know that there were never any gun deaths back in the old western days, right? Perhaps next thing you know, we''ll also start allowing concealed weapons in high schools and grade schools, too.
Reply to this comment
by erasmus6 February 16, 2008 4:28 PM PST
"Mind you, people can still own firearms in Canada." posted by rudy654

People can own rifles for hunting if you have taken a course. Handguns are illegal.

Reply to this comment
by erasmus6 February 16, 2008 4:33 PM PST
"If we are to protect our Canadian way of life, we need to crack down on gun, gang and drug crime..."

Toronto is the worst, the rest of Canada isn''t bad. But the difference here is that we are paying attention and will make a drastic attempt at containing it. The U.S. as far as I can see has made little attempt. You can''t contain things if everyone has a gun. You can''t contain things when you are letting in millions of people from other countries. And you most certainly can''t do anything if you have an idiot ruling your country.
Reply to this comment
by nodemotwit February 16, 2008 4:34 PM PST
(cont)
Beyond that, if the left wants to restrict gun purchases by mentally-disturbed-but-un-medicated (ex: VA Tech) or mentally-disturbed-but-medicated (ex: NIU) individuals then I say lets do it, tie all psychological practitioners into the ATF database. But leave the law abiding gun owners alone, and ditch your simpleton Minority Report-esk claims that all law abiding gun owners are insane pre-criminals. Even if gun ownership by citizens were outlawed completely the majority of NON-SUICIDAL gun deaths (sorry, you want to off your self, you will find a way%u2026) are caused by criminal-on-criminals, the same criminals who deal in outlawed drugs, the latter which a billion dollar US criminal industry. Since the decades of the US war on drugs have NOT stopped the flow of drugs into the US, who on the left is signing on to the simpleton and naive notion that the US criminal industry will NOT import all the guns and ammunition they need for their billion dollar illegal business??
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by irliberal February 16, 2008 4:35 PM PST
Gentle, quiet. NRA member. Well there''s your freaking red flag! LOL
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by nodemotwit February 16, 2008 4:35 PM PST
Three interesting observations of recent events:
1) This AM a perp used a car to kill 8 people in MD, w/a 200yd crime scene, and yet there is no outcry from the left to ban cars, despite a total lack of any constitutional right to own a car, despite +50K killed every year by vehicles (or more accurately, by the those driving them%u2026).
www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080216/NATION/818766356/1001

2) A few months ago a volunteer guard used her personal sidearm to stop yet another psycho murderer (4 dead) in CO, with multiple torso hits per coroner, on the premises of a church during a service, preventing many additional deaths.
www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-shoot11dec11,0,3079377.story?coll=la-default-underdog

3) Yesterday an 80 yr old citizen used his pistol to defend his life from two home invasion perps, wounding one. Now both perps are in custody charged with assault, burglary, robbery.
www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa080214_lj_hawes.bfc57dff.html

Yet I have yet to see ONE news agency reference to a law abiding gun owner who
- ACTED in defense of his/her person, or
- ACTED in the defense of others,
and ended up maiming/killing an innocent person in the process (not that that is impossible, but if law abiding gun owners are so incompetent then there should be an overwhelming number of www NEWS links the left can provide to support their ''''opinion''''.).
(cont)
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by erasmus6 February 16, 2008 4:40 PM PST
Posted by rudy654 at 03:38 PM : Feb 16, 2008

ilikecats is trying to prove something to me, I think, but has failed.
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by fibonacci_ February 16, 2008 4:41 PM PST
"He was a sweet, gentle, loving, kind-hearted, good-natured person."
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