AP Poll: To Fix Economy, Get Out Of Iraq

Most Believe U.S. Is In Recession, And Quitting Iraq Would Be More Helpful Than Rebate Checks

(AP)  The heck with Congress' big stimulus bill. The way to get the country out of recession - and most people think we're in one - is to get the country out of Iraq, according to an Associated Press-Ipsos poll.

Pulling out of the war ranked first among proposed remedies in the survey, followed by spending more on domestic programs, cutting taxes and, at the bottom end, giving rebates to poor people in hopes they'll spend the economy into recovery.

The $168 billion economic rescue package Congress rushed to approval this week includes rebates of $600 to $1,200 for most taxpayers, the hope being that they will spend the money and help revive ailing businesses. President Bush is expected to sign the measure next week. Poor wage-earners, as well as seniors and veterans who live almost entirely off Social Security and disability benefits, would get $300 checks.

However, just 19 percent of the people surveyed said they planned to go out and spend the money; 45 percent said they'd use it to pay bills.

And nearly half said what the government really should do is get out of Iraq.

Forty-eight percent said a pullout would help fix the country's economic problems "a great deal," and an additional 20 percent said it would help at least somewhat. Some 43 percent said increasing government spending on health care, education and housing programs would help a great deal; 36 percent said cutting taxes.

"Let's stop paying for this war," said Hilda Sanchez, 44, of Waterford, Calif. "There are a lot of people who are struggling. We can use the money to pay for medical care and help people who were put out of their homes."

The subject of leaving Iraq shows a sharp partisan divide - 65 percent of Democrats think it would help the economy a lot, but only 18 percent of Republicans think so.

Just 29 percent of people think putting more money in the hands of the poor would help a great deal in fixing the country's economic problems.

According to many economists, the lower people are on the income ladder, the more probable it is that they will spend a rebate and do it quickly - a shot in the arm for the ailing economy.

In the poll, 61 percent said they think the economy is already in a recession.

"Things are bad, but it will get a lot worse," said Jim Sims, 60, of Greer, S.C.

And Nanette Dahlin, 52, of St. Louis Park, Minn., said the economic stimulus package "would only make a recession less damaging."

The economy nearly stalled in the final three months of last year. Some economists, like the majority of poll respondents, say it may actually be shrinking now, given the strains from a persistent housing slump and a painful credit crunch. The worry is that people and businesses will hunker down further and pull back their spending, sending the economy into a tailspin.

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has gotten more forceful in cutting interest rates to spur people to buy more and to energize businesses. And now Republicans, Democrats and the White House have shown rare cooperation in approving relief.

Rebate checks could start showing up in mailboxes in May. However, Sanchez is typical is saying the money will "go automatically to bills." Thirty-two percent said they would save or invest the rebate. Said Sims: "I'm hoping to hold onto it."

Just 19 percent - like Dahlin - said they would spend it, while 4 percent said they would donate it to charity.

Paying off bills or saving the money won't give the economy a quick boost, though it may well be a wise financial decision for many people who are up to their eyeballs in bills.

"What is good for the economy as a whole - spending a rebate - is not the best idea at an individual household level if you are buried in debt," said Greg McBride, senior financial analyst at Bankrate.com. "Issuing rebate checks to give a boost to consumer spending amounts to a Band-Aid over the much bigger problem of consumer debt burdens," he said.

With Wall Street in turmoil, the top economic worry for poll respondents was seeing their nest eggs shrink. Fifty-nine percent said they were worried "a lot" or "some" about seeing the value of stocks and retirement investments drop. Those approaching retirement fretted the most.

Nearly half - 46 percent - said they were worried about being able to pay their bills. This is especially a concern for people whose household incomes are under $50,000, and for minorities. Twenty-eight percent most feared losing their jobs; minorities and those with a high school education or less were especially concerned.

Also, 48 percent of homeowners polled worried that the value of their homes would drop. The housing bust has led to record-high foreclosures, and weaker home values have made people feel less wealthy.

Who deserves most of the blame for the economy's troubles?

More than half - 56 percent - pointed the finger at mortgage lenders. Forty-four percent said President Bush deserves a lot of the blame. After that come Congress, Wall Street, consumers themselves, and in last place the Federal Reserve.

The Fed has the public's confidence that it will be able to right the economy.

More than half - 55 percent - said they have a great deal or some confidence in Fed to turn things around. Forty-one percent said that about Congress, only 28 percent about Mr. Bush.

In fact, economic problems have contributed to pulling the president's approval ratings to all-time lows. Only 29 percent approve of his handling of the economy, the lowest mark yet in this polling. Mr. Bush's overall job-approval rating slid to 30 percent, also a record low.

The AP-Ipsos poll was conducted Monday through Wednesday this week and involved telephone interviews with 1,006 adults. It had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points.

AP Director of Surveys Trevor Tompson and AP News Survey Specialist Dennis Junius contributed to this report.

[joyous88]

so iceman, name a country where they boil babies in oil,
??

The only place so barbaric that I can think of would be the home of a conservative republican, they regularly turn their pregnate daughters out, like a pimp with his ***, but thats just the christian way is it not?

[antizion]

No kidding? Who''s a thunk it. Spendings trillions to destroy the worlds source of cheap oil while oil companies make record profits is bad for the economy.

The oil companies should be nationalized due to price fixing and other concerns.

[iceman_1960]

"To eat an animal while it is still alive is to be able to imbibe its very essence--or so it is said."
- Posted by b-easy63 at 12:18 AM : Feb 11, 2008

There are some countries so barbaric they throw living lobsters into boiling water and burn them alive.

Ellen Degeneres rescued some lobsters from that grisly fate on her sitcom once.

[iceman_1960]

Almost right, from memory.

"China can"t understand our beef."
Posted by b-easy63 at 11:11 PM : Feb 10, 2008

And their Hindu neighbors are horrified at the eating of beef.

Christopher Hitchens reports that during the mad cow epidemic in Europe, the government of India tried to purchase the European cattle herds, intending to save them from slaughter by giving them political asylum in India.

[iceman_1960]

"iceman--I"m also surprised that Yuan said his daughter was shocked that americans eat pork given that, pork is highly prized as a food in china as is chicken. Beef on the other hand, is rarely eaten, due to the expense. gotta go to bed now. bye. :) "
- Posted by b-easy63 at 12:22 AM : Feb 11, 2008

That must be what you meant earlier, when you said "The Chinese don"t understand our beef."

Oh well,

As they say in China, hasta la vista.

[b-easy63]

remember being the guest of one of my Chinese friends, and how she and her (white) husband were doting over her little dog, almost treating it as her child.

But maybe they were just waiting for me to leave, so they could cook it for desert. You never know.

Posted by Iceman_1960 at 12:26 AM : Feb 11, 2008


BAD FORM!!!! LOL. Actually, until the time that the animal is used for food, the Chinese are very loving to most animals. I think like many things, eating dog and wanting to continue to do it is an acquired taste. Ever had Rocky mountain oysters or tongue? Some like it--some don''t. But I can tell you , that when we lived in Taiwan, our neighbor''s stole and cooked 3 of our dogs (2 puppies and the mom) we know, because one of them came over and offered the housegirl some of the meat, they did not realize she would side with us and tell us.

I bet, your friends DO love the dog as a pet. Maybe she never learned to like eating dog. Or she has no need to now. LOL

[iceman_1960]

Goodnight, b-easy63.

[b-easy63]

One of my favorite movies: "Eat. Drink, Man, Woman" wonderful, especially the cooking in the movie.

[iceman_1960]

RE: Post by b-easy63 at 12:18 AM : Feb 11, 2008

Unfortunately appalling cruelty to animals can be found in this country. (Isn"t that right, Mr. Vick ?)

I remember being the guest of one of my Chinese friends, and how she and her (white) husband were doting over her little dog, almost treating it as her child.

But maybe they were just waiting for me to leave, so they could cook it for desert. You never know.

[b-easy63]

iceman--I''m also surprised that Yuan said his daughter was shocked that americans eat pork given that, pork is highly prized as a food in china as is chicken. Beef on the other hand, is rarely eaten, due to the expense. gotta go to bed now. bye. :)

[iceman_1960]

Often works of art can reveal facets of a society one doesn"t have the chance to visit.

I recommend the interesting Chinese film "Yi Ge Dou Bu Neng Shao" (translation, "Not One Less") made in China in the year 2000.

It"s unlike any film I have ever seen.

Its Netflix summary:

"Master Chinese filmmaker Zhang Yimou (Raise the Red Lantern) turns his lens on the travails of modern China''s peasants. Wei (Wei Minzhi) is a 13-year-old girl pressed into serving as a substitute teacher in the school where she just graduated. If she keeps her class intact, she will receive a bonus. But when a student leaves for the city, she follows and strives relentlessly to bring him back."

Two thumbs up.

[b-easy63]

The Chinese do not eat dogs due to famine. It is considered a great delicacy. there are even restaurants in China (and Vietnam) where small puppies are brought to the table , alive, and is partially skinned--customers can then eat small slivers of the dog as it lays whimpering, it is tied down and muzzled. To eat an animal while it is still alive is to be able to imbibe its very essence--or so it is said.

[b-easy63]

There is (or used to be?) an amusing program on televiison called "Yan Can Cook."

They interviewed that Yan and asked him how he felt about the cooking and eating of dogs in Asian countries.

He said that American people don"t fully appreciate living in a country that has never had a major famine where hundreds of thousand or millions have died, and where a great deal of discrimination can be shown in the choice of foods to eat.

He also added an amusing anecdote. When he brought his family to America, his young daughter had a little piglet that she kept as a bad. He spoke of his horror at learning that pigs were considered food in American restaurants.

Posted by Iceman_1960 at 12:10 AM : Feb 11, 2008


I loved that show. I also agree. It is all about perspective and reference points. Each of our reference points are shaped by our own experiences, this in turn colors our perspective. I have no problem with the Chinese eating dogs or cats or rats (they eat all 3. I''ve been fed all 3 by my nannies (much to the horror of my mom) I remember it was delicious and very tender fried morsels, My mom whisked me to the base to have me checked for parasites--though she did not find out what had happened until months later.

the deal is to each his own--In Europe, and England, Cheval often appears on menus--who among us would willingly eat a horse? It is all about what we are used to, isn''t it?

[iceman_1960]

My bad, part two.

HER horror.

"He spoke of her horror at learning that pigs were considered food in American restaurants."

[iceman_1960]

"When he brought his family to America, his young daughter had a little piglet that she kept as a bad"

My bad.

Make that "pet"

"...a little piglet that she kept as a pet"

[iceman_1960]

There is (or used to be?) an amusing program on televiison called "Yan Can Cook."

They interviewed that Yan and asked him how he felt about the cooking and eating of dogs in Asian countries.

He said that American people don"t fully appreciate living in a country that has never had a major famine where hundreds of thousand or millions have died, and where a great deal of discrimination can be shown in the choice of foods to eat.

He also added an amusing anecdote. When he brought his family to America, his young daughter had a little piglet that she kept as a bad. He spoke of his horror at learning that pigs were considered food in American restaurants.

[b-easy63]

Seriously, the above does not seem to ring true of the bunch I knew.
Posted by Iceman_1960 at 11:58 PM : Feb 10, 2008

Perhaps.
I consider that highly commendable. It is not as if other cultures engage in furtive looks, sulleness and hand signals, you know. LOL. It is a hallmark of any group if they can effect nonchalance or keep things hidden and you never guess. This reminds me of when an American says he is going to "kill someone" the way he says it, the context, etc changes the meaning does it not? It can be a threat, a joke, a flip remark, etc--now, the less you know of how culture''s nuance, then the less you suspect or read into what is said. I can guarantee, you that you would be very surprised indeed if you could follow any of these people home, be a fly on the wall and hear them discussing their day with you.
This is the essence not only of minorities, the same is true for other cultures. As Americans, a lot flies over our heads. I once took a girl to Europe and had to take people aside to chastise them--they repeatedly were insulting to this woman, but she had no idea, because every thing was said in a soft voice with a kind expression and so, she took the remarks at face value and did not realize, she was being patronized and put down, left and right. We finally had to leave, because one of the people (who loathed Americans) just would not quit and too many people seemed amused by the very real fact that the girl was enjoying herself and had not a clue.

[b-easy63]

Americans who accepted Chinese offers to defect to their society generally didn"t suffer discrimination, but often became disenchanted with the sameness and the lack of opportunities to excel.

Posted by Iceman_1960 at 11:51 PM : Feb 10, 2008


That''s nice. But remember I said I lived in Taiwan a while? Well I was there when Cheng kai scheck (phonetic spelling) escaped to Taiwan and many Mandarin accompanied him. The Chinese are perfectly capable of inhumanity and brutality as well as the Japanese. Many of them had stories that were horrific in the extreme. But I agree about the Japanese--the genocide exacted on the Chinese is said to exceed the HOlocaust of the European Jewry. It is a testament to our ethnocentricity and WEstern bias, that we barely even acknowledge the Chinese holocaust, let alone refer to it in history books.

[iceman_1960]

"no matter how friendly you are [with the Chinese]--if you are not in their eyes--"one of them" it is highly unlikely they reveal anything to you."
- Posted by b-easy63 at 11:46 PM : Feb 10, 2008

They used to laugh at my jokes. That"s all I know.

Seriously, the above does not seem to ring true of the bunch I knew. They were a pretty relaxed bunch of people, pretty funny, even comical in a practical-joke kind of way. I can"t imagine there was some secret understanding among them to keep me in the dark about anything.

You must have met a different sample of the 1.3 billion than I did.

Like that story of the group of blind men asked to describe an elephant. Each had a different description, based on the part he had felt: one called it a snake (from the tail), one a tree (from the legs), one a large fan (from the ears). etc...

[b-easy63]

no matter how friendly you are--if you are not in their eyes--"one of them" it is highly unlikely they reveal anything to you.

Note: I did not say they would not speak in front of you--but they will always be cognizant that you are there and are perhaps listening. If you speak Chinese, they may, if the conversation gets too heated, switch to a dialect to get more in depth. this is also the reason Blacks use so much slang. They do not have their own language anymore due to the large number of years being away from any African tribes. They therefore, take the language they grew up with English, change the cadence and inject a lot of slang and euphemisms and make the resultant speech difficult of other outside groups to follow.

The language of Hip hop only contains a very small amount of black slang--it is for mainstream consumption and as it is copied or understood , they change it. But if you ever hang out with any blacks from the "hood" and heard them speak, chances are, no matter how well versed in "rap slang" there is a very good chance you would not understand what they were saying...This is because not only is their slang, there are poses, mannerisms, expressions and inflections that change the meaning of the slang and the connotations of it. Not for outsiders--definitely. I suspect the same is true for most cultures, this allows them to be a part of the mainstream and to humour it--but to retain and foster their own separateness also.