WASHINGTON, Feb. 8, 2008

Cheney Defends U.S. Use Of Waterboarding

But CIA Chief Says Legality Of Controversial Interrogation Technique Is Now Doubtful

    • Vice President Dick Cheney, speaking to a conference of conservative Republicans, said it was Photo

      Vice President Dick Cheney, speaking to a conference of conservative Republicans, said it was "a good thing" that President Bush authorized the use of waterboarding during the interrogation of detainees suspected of being al Qaeda members.  (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)

    • Waterboarding is illegal under U.S. and international law, but it was revealed this week that President Bush had authorized its use in 2002 and 2003 — and could do so again. Photo

      Waterboarding is illegal under U.S. and international law, but it was revealed this week that President Bush had authorized its use in 2002 and 2003 — and could do so again.  (CBS)

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(CBS/AP)  The debate over waterboarding flared Thursday on Capitol Hill, with the CIA director raising doubts about whether it's currently legal and the attorney general refusing to investigate U.S. interrogators who have used the technique on terror detainees.

Vice President Dick Cheney, meanwhile, said "it's a good thing" that top al Qaeda figures underwent the harsh interrogation tactic in 2002 and 2003, claiming they were forced to give up information that helped protect the country and saved "thousands" of American lives.

"It's a good thing we had them in custody, and it's a good thing we found out what they knew," said Cheney, speaking Thursday to a meeting of conservative Republicans in Washington.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, President Bush has "made the right decisions for the right reasons," Cheney said.

"I've been proud to stand by him, the decisions he made. And would I support those same decisions today? You're damn right I would," he said to enthusiastic applause at the Conservative Political Action Conference. [See expanded remarks below.]

Waterboarding involves strapping a person down and pouring water over his or her cloth-covered face to create the sensation of drowning. It is condemned by nations around the world; critics, including U.S. military interrogators, call it a form of torture.

Despite U.S. and international laws which recognize waterboarding as torture - a technique which dates back at least to the Spanish Inquisition, and for which U.S. courts have obtained convictions as a war crime - CIA Director Michael Hayden said the use of waterboarding by the U.S. was legal in 2002 and 2003 because a Justice Department lawyer signed a secret legal opinion claiming terror detainees were not protected by the Geneva Convention's ban on torture.

When that opinion was rescinded after it became public in 2004, other secret opinions were written declaring extreme intrerrogation methods could be approved by the president.

Such authorizations were at odds with public statements by President Bush and then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales who declared torture to be “abhorrent” and which indicated that the waterboarding of detainees was not allowed by the U.S.

During 2002-2003, the administration said this week, waterboarding was in fact authorized for use on three detainees - accused al Qaeda members Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri - because of widespread belief among U.S. intelligence officials that catastrophic attacks by al Qaeda were imminent.

Even after the Supreme Court ruled in 2006 that al Qaeda prisoners were subject to Geneva Convention protections, the president in July signed an executive order approving "enhanced" interrogation techniques on certain prisoners. As revealed in The New York Times, the order, approved by the White House Office of Legal Counsel (OLC), authorizes the CIA to use such techniques banned by international law.

Under the provisions of the secret order, waterboarding could only be authorized by the president.

Intelligence experts have not only denounced the use of waterboarding, saying that intelligence obtained through that method is questionable, but have allowed that its use exposes those who authorize it to indictment on charges of war crimes.
[As a side note, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said this week that the president is demanding that Steven Bradbury, who signed off on secret legal opinions allowing the use of waterboarding, be appointed to the head of the Office of Legal Counsel, a post which requires Senate confirmation.

Reid charges the president with purposely holding up more than 84 post nominations for federal agencies and judgeships, refusing to move forward on them unless the Senate OKs Bradbury. Meanwhile, the president blamed Congress for holding up the nominations, without mentioning Bradbury, whose duties at OLC (according to a former OLC head) could include writing an "advance pardon" excusing lawbreaking by the Executive Branch.]

CIA: Waterboarding Not In The Current Program

In 2006, the Central Intelligence Agency banned waterboarding by its personnel in the wake of a Supreme Court decision and new laws on the treatment of U.S. detainees.

"It is not included in the current program, and in my own view, the view of my lawyers and the Department of Justice, it is not certain that that technique would be considered to be lawful under current statute," Hayden told the House Intelligence Committee.

But White House spokesman Tony Fratto admitted Thursday that while waterboarding is not currently used, its legal use could be approved by the president if the attorney general and intelligence heads said it would garner important intelligence.

"I'm not in a position, and no one is in a position, to rule anything in or out," Fratto said, when asked if torture might be used, despite current law.

Quote

Everyone in the world knows that waterboarding is torture and illegal. The U.S. government admits having done it. Yet the highest law enforcement official in the land refuses to investigate this scandal.

Larry Cox, executive director,
Amnesty International USA
On Thursday, Attorney General Michael Mukasey pushed back against Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee demanding to know whether he would prosecute U.S. interrogators who used waterboarding in the past.

"Are you ready to start a criminal investigation into whether this confirmed use of waterboarding by U.S. agents was illegal?" the committee's chairman, Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., asked, calling the technique an "odious practice."

"No, I am not," Mukasey answered bluntly.

He said the Justice Department could not investigate or prosecute people for actions that it had authorized earlier.

Mukasey has refused to say publicly whether he considers waterboarding legal. On Thursday he said it "was found to be permissible under the law as it existed" in the years immediately following 9/11.

Critics say waterboarding violates the U.N. Convention Against Torture and U.S. laws outlining legal treatment of detainees. The Justice Department long has resisted exposing the Bush administration and its employees to criminal or civil charges or even international war crimes if waterboarding were declared illegal.

Larry Cox, executive director of Amnesty International USA, called Thursday's testimony an example of "the gold standard of double standards."

"Everyone in the world knows that waterboarding is torture and illegal," Cox said. "The U.S. government admits having done it. Yet the highest law enforcement official in the land refuses to investigate this scandal."

Continued



© MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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Add a Comment See all 356 Comments
by david1737 February 8, 2008 1:35 PM PST
Bush/Cheney Tortured then lied about it!

Wake up people.
Reply to this comment
by sharednotion February 8, 2008 1:39 PM PST
If our government really believes that some use of waterboarding has been necessary in the past, and may be necessary in the future, then wouldn''t it be more intellectually honets for our whole society, if our government would acknowledge that waterboarding is a form of torture? If we as a society feel that we cannot accept torture under any circumstances, then we should not rationize that something whi IS torture, supposedly is not.
Reply to this comment
by quetzal0666 February 8, 2008 1:41 PM PST
Have Congress Waterboard this Crooked S.O.B. then
the Country can be Glad we had him and he told everything about his behind the scene selling out of the American People,

We can debate wether its legal or not later after he has a chance to dry his face off...
andChange the batteries on his pacemaker im sure itd skip a few beats or so during the mild interrogation..
Reply to this comment
by lfitts1 February 8, 2008 1:47 PM PST
Bush and Cheney should be tried as traitors and war criminals--plain and simple--it violates the Geneva convention, US and international law consider it illegal and torture--how much more thought needs to go into this???
Reply to this comment
by killtheliars February 8, 2008 1:49 PM PST
I hope the fat slob has a heart attack
Reply to this comment
by downtowner97 February 8, 2008 1:49 PM PST
I''d love a front row seat at Cheney''s waterboarding. I have a few questions I''d like to ask him.
Reply to this comment
by rudy654-2009 February 8, 2008 1:50 PM PST
Posted by rafterman1 at 01:47 PM

Exactly. If he thinks it is such a wonderful tool, let him try it out on himself, just like others in the government have done, and then let''s see how enthusiastic he is about using this torture technique.
Reply to this comment
by danstoned February 8, 2008 1:54 PM PST
Neocon Goon Squad leader Cheney is more out of touch with America than is GW Bush. Just wait until we tie John McCain to the Neocon Goon Squad in the White House. There are not enough white people in the USA to get Joh McCain elected as president.
Reply to this comment
by aaabee-2009 February 8, 2008 1:55 PM PST
Gurgle, gurgle, gurgle. Now do you think it is torture, Mr. Cheney?

Wouldn''t Cheney make just a first rate ***-tator? We could call him Saddam II.

The terrorists are right here in America, folks. Right here in America.
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds February 8, 2008 1:55 PM PST
Water-board this Fat *** until he dies! Then we''ll see if it''s torture or not!
Reply to this comment
by prinzowhales February 8, 2008 1:55 PM PST
Why is this lying piece of offal still walking around? Why isn''t he in jail!!---Because Americans are too morally bankrupt to insist on being told the truth...too timid to challenge authority...too arse-licking to think for themselves...too mealy-mouthed and mealy-minded to back a true oppostion party that would fight for his impeachment.

The Democrats won because people thought they opposed the war in 2006...now they have two war pigs running neck and neck for the presidential nomination and the House and Senate are run by corrupt figures who support the Regime.
Reply to this comment
by aaabee-2009 February 8, 2008 1:56 PM PST
That was dic-tator, just so''s ya get the joke. :)
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds February 8, 2008 1:57 PM PST
Cheney is lower then scum. He''s what pigs, goats and maggots puke up. The day this Fat Bas***** finally gives up the ghost will bring celebration around the world! My main reason for going on now is that I hope I get the chance to pis*s on this pricks grave someday!
Reply to this comment
by aaabee-2009 February 8, 2008 2:02 PM PST
Posted by Prinzowhales at 01:55 PM : Feb 08, 2008

Agree. If I had the right to, I would apologize for booobs in Congress, but I don''t. I voted for a couple of them. That the Republicans have run this country into the ground so blatantly and so manically is horrible. That the Democrats have done so ga-dang little about it is a whole other level of horrible.

Trust me, the let-down of the trust of the American people, the globe, and even future generations by the current high-dollar trash in Washington has been felt across the political board.
Reply to this comment
by heartlight3 February 8, 2008 2:05 PM PST
The scariest and most outrageous thing in this article is the part about Bush trying to blackmail congress into approving Bradbury as head of the OLC. It looks like he is maneuvering to set up a situation where he will not be held accountable for anything no matter what he does. Why is this not getting more attention in the press? This is outrageous! This is how we bumble obliviously along and suddenly wake up with an autocratic government and no civil liberties without knowing how we got there, as happened in Germany.
Reply to this comment
by aboz3 February 8, 2008 2:06 PM PST
Lets waterboard cheney and find out about halliburton/kbr and their mystery contracts and gouging!
Reply to this comment
by macusweil February 8, 2008 2:06 PM PST
Hey Cheney! Go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go do not collect 200 billion dollars. Yes it''s true rape is legal at Halliburton.
Reply to this comment
by aaabee-2009 February 8, 2008 2:06 PM PST
My main reason for going on now is that I hope I get the chance to pis*s on this pricks grave someday!
Posted by SgtRDS at 01:57 PM : Feb 08, 2008

May I come too? It would be my pleasrue to not only witness but to cheer you on gleefully, and to refill you with the beverage of your choice, so that the liquid impeachment may continue as long as you see fit.
Reply to this comment
by quetzal0666 February 8, 2008 2:08 PM PST
gurgel, gurlgle,, gurgle.....
Reply to this comment
by aaabee-2009 February 8, 2008 2:08 PM PST
Why is this not getting more attention in the press? Posted by heartlight3 at 02:05 PM : Feb 08, 2008

It''s that daang liberal press, don''t cha know. Liberal media refuses to print anything good about Bush, so hence the media silence. Or so I tell myself, everytime a Republican cries that the media is liberal-bias.
Reply to this comment
by pkelly79 February 8, 2008 2:15 PM PST
"I''''d love a front row seat at Cheney''''s waterboarding. I have a few questions I''''d like to ask him."

...wouldn''t that be great! Cheney and Bush have done their best to destroy what makes America such a great country - like NOT torturing people. How is this even a debate? Cheney and the terrorists are one is the same - they preach hate, condone violence, hide behind ideology, spread fear, finance militias, and contribute to the deaths of innocent & peaceful men, women, & children. The Bush administration will be judged by history to be the worst administration in American history - they had seemingly endless opportunity & resources to contribute value to our country and global community but decided to try and build an imaginary empire instead. The next administration has its hands full fixing the mess.
Reply to this comment
by aboz3 February 8, 2008 2:15 PM PST
and throw in Gonzo for good measure!
Reply to this comment
by forthepeopl1 February 8, 2008 2:19 PM PST
[edit] Criminal and Civil Prosecutions
Two provisions of the MCA , MISERY HILLARY GOT THIS PAST INTO LAW...WHY

First, the MCA changed the definition of war crimes for which US government defendants can be prosecuted. Under the War Crimes Act of 1996, any violation of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions was considered a war crime and could be criminally prosecuted. Section 6 of the Military Commissions Act amended the War Crimes Act so that only actions specifically defined as "grave breaches" of Common Article 3 could be the basis for a prosecution, and it made that definition retroactive to November 26, 1997. The specific actions defined in section 6 of the Military Commissions Act include torture, cruel or inhumane treatment, murder, mutilation or maiming, intentionally causing serious bodily harm, rape, sexual assault or abuse, and the taking of hostages. According to Mariner of Human Rights Watch, the effect is "that perpetrators of several categories of what were war crimes at the time they were committed, can no longer be punished under U.S. law."[32] The Center for Constitutional Rights adds:

The MCA%u2019s restricted definitions arguably would exempt certain U.S. officials who have implemented or had command responsibility for coercive interrogation techniques from war crimes prosecutions.
. . . .
This amendment is designed to protect U.S. government perpetrators of abuses during the "war on terror" from prosecution.[33]

Reply to this comment
by sgtrds February 8, 2008 2:21 PM PST
May I come too? It would be my pleasrue to not only witness but to cheer you on gleefully, and to refill you with the beverage of your choice, so that the liquid impeachment may continue as long as you see fit.

Posted by AaaBee at 02:06 PM : Feb 08, 2008

Arrive early. I''m sure there''s going to be a line of people waiting to pis*s on Cheney''s grave that will stretch for miles.
Reply to this comment
by kofiananimus February 8, 2008 2:22 PM PST
Contact the U.N. Security Council (via the U.N. at: inquiries@un.org) and ask them to refer Bush and/or Cheney to the International Criminal Court for war crimes.
Reply to this comment
by aaabee-2009 February 8, 2008 2:27 PM PST
Arrive early. I''''m sure there''''s going to be a line of people waiting to pis*s on Cheney''''s grave that will stretch for miles. Posted by SgtRDS at 02:21 PM : Feb 08, 2008

Will do. Every cemetary needs a water feature.

Does he get to be in-*** in Arlington, along with the real Soldiers and presidents?
Reply to this comment
by missingamerica February 8, 2008 2:29 PM PST
Oh, for crying out loud. Cheney would defend bashing babies'' heads on rocks if it would accomplish another one of PNAC''s goals.
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds February 8, 2008 2:33 PM PST
Does he get to be in-*** in Arlington, along with the real Soldiers and presidents?

Posted by AaaBee at 02:27 PM : Feb 08, 2008

Nope. They wouldn''t dare anyway since they''d have to recall a battalion of troops from Iraq to protect it from vandalism. Not that most of the soldiers guarding it wouldn''t do some pis*sing on it of their own. They''re going to have to bury this prick in a secret location.
Reply to this comment
by rowdytexan2 February 8, 2008 2:34 PM PST
"Vice President *** Cheney, meanwhile, said "it''s a good thing" that top al Qaeda figures underwent the harsh interrogation tactic in 2002 and 2003, claiming they were forced to give up information that helped protect the country and saved "thousands" of American lives."

It didn''t save the 3,000 lives Cheney and Bush had already taken when they allowed/caused the 9/11 disaster.

It didn''t save the 4,000 soldiers whose lives were taken over the Bush/Cheney war for oil!

It didn''t save the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives taken in the Bush/Cheney war for oil!

It didn''t save Benazir Bhutto''s life when Bush/Cheney had her taken out!

Mr. Cheney, you are a hypocrit, as well as a murderer!

Reply to this comment
by bobmarisol February 8, 2008 2:35 PM PST
Why is it that everyone is so concerned about ''torturing'' the terrorists? Would we rather let the terrorists mock our interrogators and not disclose vital information about impending attacks that could kill thousands of Americans? Was it not ''torture'' when the terrorists decapitated and mutilated the bodies of American soldiers and prisoners?
Reply to this comment
by bobmarisol February 8, 2008 2:39 PM PST
And why is it that you liberal Democrats are okay with sucking the brains out of unborn children and/or snapping their necks after pulling them out of the womb prematurely (called ''partial birth'' abortion), but you are so against the idea of pouring a little water on the face of a terrorist?
Reply to this comment
by secundus2 February 8, 2008 2:40 PM PST
No, evertbody in the world doesn''t know that waterboarding is torture and illegal. That is why Congress needs to pass a law making it and other specifically identified, harsh interrogation practices illegal either absolutely or except under extraordinary circumstances -- whatever is the best wording they can work out. They''ve had five years to do this, but they would rather have political arguments than take any action. They are not a court; nobody cares ultimately what their opinion of past actions is; they are a legislature. So make a law, for God''s sake, and let the courts hold any trials that need to occur.
Reply to this comment
by zorar-2009 February 8, 2008 2:42 PM PST
Chaney..& Bush with their conservative christian values...Thou shall not kill,
Thou shall not lie...ya right the worst hypocrits of all time "Jesus would throw these two monsters out of the tenple"?
Reply to this comment
by byeneocons February 8, 2008 2:42 PM PST
Is he still alive? How?
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds February 8, 2008 2:45 PM PST
Was it not ''''torture'''' when the terrorists decapitated and mutilated the bodies of American soldiers and prisoners?

Posted by bobmarisol at 02:35 PM : Feb 08, 2008

Now THAT''S a stupid argument. They do it so we should to. Let''s become as bad as terrorists are. Great battle cry to give to our troops as they die for noting in Bush''s war. "We''re as bad of murderers and torturers as you are!" or "Join us! We''re slightly less of murders as they are!". The Japanese tortured our troops in WWII, but we didn''t torture theirs. We defeated them and they were an infinitely bigger threat then Islamic terrorists. Torture ALWAY''S hurts the nation that does it more then the victims of it.
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds February 8, 2008 2:48 PM PST
The use of torture is inexcusable and indefensible no what the circumstances. It is ALWAY''S wrong!
Reply to this comment
by brianp55 February 8, 2008 2:49 PM PST
Believe me, I''m no fan of the Bush administration but I believe that there are times when harsh measures are required to extract information from this terrorist scum. I''d rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.
Reply to this comment
by clestes-2009 February 8, 2008 2:49 PM PST
I have a suggestion. Let''s waterboard Scooter Libby and get him to fess up the truth!
Reply to this comment
by joyous88 February 8, 2008 2:52 PM PST
Now we have proof that evangelical conservatives are really SUB-HUMAN
Reply to this comment
by ianlou February 8, 2008 2:52 PM PST
I heard Cheney said: "...While waterboarding, we add a bar of soap and these guys will get a bath for the first time in their lives"
Reply to this comment
by battyellison February 8, 2008 2:53 PM PST
*** Cheney is one of the worst people in the US how does the goverment let this man ever get on tv or radio with this BS !!!!!
www.youtube.com/Unconstitutional The real *** Cheney
Reply to this comment
by bobmarisol February 8, 2008 2:54 PM PST
Now THAT''S a stupid argument. They do it so we should to. Let''s become as bad as terrorists are. Great battle cry to give to our troops as they die for noting in Bush''s war. ''We''re as bad of murderers and torturers as you are!'' or ''Join us! We''re slightly less of murders as they are!''. The Japanese tortured our troops in WWII, but we didn''t torture theirs. We defeated them and they were an infinitely bigger threat then Islamic terrorists. Torture ALWAYS hurts the nation that does it more then the victims of it.
Posted by SgtRDS


SgtStupid - so what is your battle cry? ''Join us! We know the terrorists tortured and mutilated your fellow soldiers, but if you capture them just be nice and give them hot meals and a bed to sleep on!'' REAL MOTIVATING.

Why is it you liberals are so weak on the war on terror? What you dont understand is that the terrorists are evil people intent on killing innocent Americans. Our soldiers should be given every tool possible to defeat the terrorists and to save American lives. If that includes pouring a little water on the face of a terrorist, that is a small price to pay to save even one innocent American.
Reply to this comment
by joyous88 February 8, 2008 2:54 PM PST
bobmarisol --is an idiot, no body wants an abortion, nobody lkes it,
it is just none of your business because it''s not a human unless it is born, NO BIRTH = NO BABY, ITS NOT ALIVE DUMMY-
Reply to this comment
by salty1954 February 8, 2008 2:56 PM PST
Cheney should be waterboarded , publicly , then we can all decide whether or not it is torture.
Reply to this comment
by kissamaarse February 8, 2008 2:57 PM PST
I would thoroughly enjoy the public waterboarding of *** Cheney. I would pay money to watch. We can ask him afterwards whether he thinks it is torture. We will warn him, "You will not enjoy this. It will not be over with quickly. You will say ANYTHING to make it stop."
Reply to this comment
by grazinggoat February 8, 2008 3:00 PM PST
We are bound by treaty to have our government act in legal ways, and the next treaty obligation will entail extradition of war criminals such as you admittedly have confessed.
Posted by mjlewis6 at 02:00 PM : Feb 08, 2008

-I drink to that! I''ll open a bottle of Veuve Cliquot and share it with my neighbours, when this pinky piiiiig will be thrown in Jail.
Reply to this comment
by bobmarisol February 8, 2008 3:01 PM PST
Why is it that you liberal Democrats are so against pouring a little water on a terrorist''s face but you are totally okay with sucking the brains out of unborn children and/or snapping their necks after pulling them out of the womb prematurely (called ''partial birth'' abortion)?
Reply to this comment
by ianlou February 8, 2008 3:03 PM PST
"Cheney Defends U.S. Use Of Waterboarding"

What happened to the good-old-days when Vice Presidents did nothing, tried to avoid scandals and kept their dammned mouths shut until the next election?
Reply to this comment
by rowdytexan2 February 8, 2008 3:07 PM PST
Posted by bobmarisol at 02:54 PM : Feb 08, 2008

Because it is against the law. And when you allow a regime to be above the law, then they can turn around and use the same rational on you. America has become a great nation because of our Constitution and our democracy. We signed an agreement NOT to torture. And then the Bush regime tortured and then lied and said they didn''t torture.

Signing an agreement and not sticking to it is dishonorable and weak. Then all other agreements become suspect and you are no longer a nation to be trusted.

We are not weak on the war on terrorism. Remember we voted to go into Afghanistan and get Osama and the terrorists, also. But the war on terror was dropped for the war for oil.
Reply to this comment
by grazinggoat February 8, 2008 3:09 PM PST
Everyone in the world knows that waterboarding is torture and illegal. The U.S. government admits having done it. Yet the highest law enforcement official in the land refuses to investigate this scandal.

Larry Cox, executive director,
Amnesty International USA

-Makes me think there is soemthing wrong. The constitution is being disrupted. USA is getting under a coup status-Martial Law, with no evidence of eminent danger to the security of the country.
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