GOP Hopefuls Split On Global Warming Plans

Candidates Agree It's Real, But Divided On What To Do About It

(AP)  While the major presidential candidates agree global warming is real, the Republicans are sharply divided over what to do about it - even as they chase votes in Florida, where the predicted risk of rising sea waters and more severe storms is anything but a passing concern.

Strategists in both parties say the political landscape for global warming has shifted dramatically in recent years with a broad coalition of environmentalists, business leaders, evangelical Christians and national security advocates - Democrats and Republicans alike - urging concrete actions to stem the effects.

The issue is likely to interest voters not only in Florida's primary next Tuesday but in the rush of primaries that follow. Nine of the more than 20 states with contests on Feb. 5 have passed or are considering programs to cap greenhouse gases, as is Maine, which holds its caucuses on Feb. 2.

"Climate change is real. It's happening. I believe human beings are contributing to it," former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani said during a debate in Iowa when pressed on the issue.

But Giuliani and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney adamantly oppose a mandatory cap on the greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide, that are blamed for the earth's warming. Both have borrowed a page from President Bush's strategy by maintaining that the answer is to free the country from its dependence on foreign oil.

That's in marked contrast to Sen. John McCain, who is battling Giuliani and Romney for the lead in Florida. The Arizona senator has been among Congress' loudest voices for aggressive action, co-sponsoring legislation in 2003 that called for capping greenhouse gases - principally carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels - and frequently chiding the Bush administration for its failure to support mandatory measures to reduce such emissions.

It's a turnaround from when McCain ran for president eight years ago and was dogged in New Hampshire by a critic in a penguin suit protesting McCain's skepticism about climate change. McCain cited a series of Senate hearings he held on issue for convincing him the problem is real.

The so-called "cap-and-trade" approach - where companies would have pollution allowances they could sell if they fall below a cap, or buy credits if they found they could not meet the requirements - also has been endorsed by former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who has called protecting the earth from warming "a moral issue."

The leading Democratic candidates - Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards - have called for a mandatory 80 percent cut in greenhouse gases from 1990 levels by mid-century and have outlined global warming proposals more stringent than Democratic legislation before the Senate.

But Giuliani has no taste for mandates on carbon emissions, saying they make no sense.

"The best way to deal with it is through energy independence," he argues, calling for building more nuclear power plants, promoting conservation and alternative fuels and more research into capturing carbon dioxide from coal plants. He argues mandates to cap greenhouse gases don't make sense.

Some environmentalists say they're not surprised by Giuliani's position given his association with one of the most influential law/lobbying firms in Washington that represent energy interests. Giuliani joined Houston-based Bracewell-Giuliani as a partner three years ago.

"Bracewell-Giuliani has been the go-to place for companies that are opposed to clean air and global warming requirements," says Frank O'Donnell, executive director of Clean Air Watch, a Washington advocacy group that regularly has been on opposing sides of the Giuliani firm's clients.

Giuliani's campaign declined to comment Wednesday on his connection to the firm.

Romney has a similar recipe for dealing with global warming.

"We can dramatically reduce our CO2 emissions by putting ourselves realistically on a course of energy independence," he told New Hampshire voters, adding that he opposes any mandatory, across-the-board carbon limits unless other countries take steps as well.

"It's global warming, not America warming," has been his standard reply when asked for his views on regulating carbon dioxide.

The global warming issue, despite a string of recent revelations suggesting it to be ever more serious, didn't bubble to the top as an issue in either Iowa or New Hampshire, and McCain's call for action may have contributed to his loss to Romney in economically ravaged Michigan, where the auto industry carries great weight.

But that may not be the case in Florida, with its 1,200 miles of coastline, history of severe storms and unique sea coral. All would be affected by the type of warming scientists predict.

"This is a state that's uniquely vulnerable," said Gerald Karnas, director of the Florida Climate Change Project at Environmental Defense, an advocacy group. "Any candidate that wants to credibly campaign in Florida right now needs to move beyond the rhetoric and platitudes and get very specific about what they will do. ... People are hungry for solutions."

Ken Mehlman, former Republican National Committee chairman and manager of President Bush's 2004 re-election, says Republicans can't afford to ignore climate change. He said addressing the issue with specific solutions is key to returning independents to the GOP after the party lost them in the 2006 elections.

There has emerged "a whole new constituency ... a left-right coalition" including military leaders worried about national defense, religious leaders, environmentalists, sportsmen and "a who's who of American business" that may once have been climate skeptics but now are demanding action to reduce greenhouse emissions, Mehlman said at a recent panel discussion about politics and climate change.

Said Joe Lockhart, White House press secretary for former President Clinton: "We're very near politically to a tipping point where it's very bad politics to try to stop" action on climate change.

"We may have passed the tipping point," added Tucker Eskew, a former senior Bush White House aide.

[mediapreachr]

Every other week cbs comes around and dumps another story about "global warming".The problem is people have figured out this con and are not paying attention to it anymore.After all it''s not our fault that politicians have squandered the budget on wars or bailing out bad bankers investments.They just have to find another source of funding.In Europe people don''t want to pay the so called "carbon tax" anymore and they''re registering cars in other countries.

[ubrew12]

Global warming deniers seem to understand that without CO2 in the atmosphere our planet would be freezing. CO2 acts through the well-known, well-understood, and NOT controversial ''greenhouse effect'' (a fact that''s been understood for 180 years).

CO2 levels have gone up, from historical levels, by 50%, just in the last 100 years. Its gone up 30% just since 1960. It is now at levels NEVER seen in the historical record. NONE OF THIS IS CONTROVERSIAL! NONE OF IT IS DENIED! THERE SIMPLY IS NO CONFLICT ABOUT THE RECENT CO2 LEVEL RISE!

What amazes me then is this: given CO2''s importance in maintaining the temperature of the planet, HOW can Global Warming Deniers insist that a 50% RISE in that gas would have no effect on our atmosphere???

I mean, if your weight affects your health, would increasing your weight by 50% have an affect on your health?? (Ooops, given the weight problems of current Americans, maybe I''m asking the wrong question).

CO2Max: the program director for the Antarctic Earth Sciences program at the National Science Foundation expects the levels of CO2 to double. That is anything but natural. It has been 200-280 for the last 10 million years. The increase we''re witnessing is caused by H. sapiens, and H. sapiens is going to suffer for it. Our climate will come to approximate that which existed when the dinosaurs were here. Hardly optimal conditions for billions of primates living in concrete caves along the coastlines of the world.

[micma-2009]

Global warming is natural.
Global warming is just a part of overall climate change.
Climate change has been going on since our atmosphere formed billions of years ago.
Global warming is not catastrophic, but we do need to relearn how to adapt to changing conditions.

Posted by CO2Max at 06:27 AM : Jan 27, 2008




Thanks for your two cents but I''''ll defer to the actual scientists for scientific information. And since the global scientific consensus points overwhelmingly to global warming as a very real and threatening man-made phenomena, I''''ll continue to view that as more factual than your rambling denial. If I should one day decide however, that I would rather bury my head in my @ss than face the truth, then I''''ll consult you on how to do so. You do seem to be a real expert on that. Thank you so much.


lol!

[co2max]

Micma is our resident expert practitioner of the patterned response. That''s a rather brainless way of conducting a discussion. Pretty much exactly what I hear going on when I accompany my family to church...just mindless repetitive patterned responses with no sincerity or active participation involved.
Global warming is natural.
Global warming is just a part of overall climate change.
Climate change has been going on since our atmosphere formed billions of years ago.
Global warming is not catastrophic, but we do need to relearn how to adapt to changing conditions.

[ubrew12]

prairiefox1 said: "disturbed particles... mix with snow, limiting the heat it can reflect. ...today''s snowpacks melt about a month earlier than they once did. "

Lets get after those Eskimo''s for kickin'' up all that dirt. Then the Arctic wouldn''t be melting at record rates.

BTW, gravimetric measurements by polar satellites confirms that ice is melting at record rates in Greenland and Antarctica as well. Regarding Antarctica, maybe its those Emperor Penguins kicking up all the dirt. They just look dirty to me...

BTW, usually particulates in the atmosphere cool the earth by solar energy reflection, but I''m sure you have a glib explanation why that would not be the case here. LOL!

[jowand]

I''''ll consult you on how to do so. You do seem to be a real expert on that. Thank you so much.


lol!
Posted by micma at 08:36 PM : Jan 26, 2008

Just the facts just the facts, or eat your shorts.

[micma-2009]

Jowand


Thanks for your two cents but I''ll defer to the actual scientists for scientific information. And since the global scientific consensus points overwhelmingly to global warming as a very real and threatening man-made phenomena, I''ll continue to view that as more factual than your rambling denial. If I should one day decide however, that I would rather bury my head in my @ss than face the truth, then I''ll consult you on how to do so. You do seem to be a real expert on that. Thank you so much.


lol!

[erasmus6]

rheola

There is a mistake in my post. "I see you are keeping up the good work." was typed twice.

[erasmus6]

rheola

Thanks for the information!

The Americans have major hurricanes, tornadoes, forest fires and earthquakes and have been attacked by terrorists.

Here, the west doesn''t get tornadoes and we have had one mild hurricane that I remember and that was when I was a little girl. We do have forest fires up country but nothing like the U.S. As for earthquakes, on the west we have had some small ones but nothing major. Of course one day we could I suppose. The rest of Canada to my knowledge doesn''t get earthquakes.

Canada has never had a terrorist attack and I am hoping that will always be the case. I see you are keeping up the good work.


"I see you are keeping up the good work."

I do try!:)

[rheola-2009]

Erasmus6

Found the following

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/canada-not-so-safe-website/2008/01/26/1201157737457.html

The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade''s Smart Traveller website warns potential tourists of terrorism, dangerous winter driving, heavy snow, ice and wind chills, as well as tornadoes, earthquakes and forest fires.

They should have thrown in Climate warming hoax perpertrators.???????????

I would not take to much notice of it, sounds like a beat up to me.

As you can see from the above, the reasons are a little on the ridiculous side.

Certainly would not stop me from coming to your beautiful country.

[rheola-2009]

Posted by erasmus6 at 03:35 PM : Jan 26, 2008

Hullo Mz. Erasmus.

I have no idea of what you are talking about, nothing of such has been published over here, no doubt a beat up from somebody looking for a bit of publicity, but is totally lacking in ethics.

So sleep easy, the rascals are not coming to get you during the night..

In point of fact, Canada is regarded as one of the safer destinations foer us, more so than the country to your south.

I see you are keeping up the good work.

All the best, have a good one.

[prairiefox1]

PART 2
Painter, a recent addition to the university''s geology department, is now studying the Wasatch Range. He says the snowpack
there is under serious assault from dust and soot. Wasatch canyons provide most of Salt Lake City''s water and are
economically significant for winter recreation.
"If it''s possible to clean up the snowpack, we can buy significant time to increase snowpack duration," he said. "We have
enormous amounts of research to do. I look forward to doing it over the next decade."
Painter said dust''s effects on snow are a global problem. The disappearance of central Asia''s Aral Sea, for example, magnifies
ecological devastation by sending plumes of dust off the dry lake bed. The dust blows east and settles in China''s Tienshan
mountain range, where it disrupts the snowpack''s hydrologic cycles.
Old lake bed sediments document changes over time, in the way historic weather patterns are written into tree rings. Reading
these sediments reveals a surge in dust emissions around the world, Painter said.
___
Information from: The Salt Lake Tribune, http://www.sltrib.com

[prairiefox1]

ITS ALL A BUNCH OF BUNK! READ ON! PART 1
Utah scientist: Dust shortening winters
52 minutes ago
Western winters are getting shorter because of dust kicked up by urban and agricultural development, a University of Utah
researcher said.
Thomas Painter, head of the school''s Snow Optics Laboratory, said in a lecture at the downtown library Monday that disturbed
particles from the Colorado Plateau mix with snow, limiting the heat it can reflect. As a result, today''s snowpacks melt about a
month earlier than they once did. Painter''s research affirms longtime anecdotal claims that the dirtier snow is, the faster it
melts.
"That has enormous implications up and down the line," Painter said. He said it''s important because when the snow cover
dissipates earlier than it should, the ground is exposed at a time when the sun is highest in the sky. This can hurt the local
ecology.
"That has some impact on regional climate," he said. "We''re seeing a 1.5 degree Centigrade temperature increase."

I just got back from a lecture by the program director for the Antarctic Earth Sciences program at the National Science Foundation. Some very interesting information about studies recently completed, and studies in the works. With Polenet, they will be able to weigh the Antarctic ice sheets every year by using a system of GPS and seismic sensors.

[erasmus6]

rheola

If you are still around I have a question for you.

Are you hearing warnings about traveling to Canada?

Last night on our news, they were saying that Australia is warning their people about coming to Canada. They are saying that it isn''t safe to walk the streets. When my husband and I heard that, we turned and looked at each other and started laughing. We couldn''t believe it! Our news reporters took their cameras out on to the streets and started asking people what they thought about the streets and they all said that they felt very safe. In fact one of the people interviewed was a person from Australia on vacation and he said he felt perfectly safe.

The real funny thing was that Australia said that they considered CHINA and a number of other countries, which I can''t remember, to be safer! At the time they listed them, though, I do remember that NONE of them would be safer than here. The only place that I can think of that wouldn''t maybe be safe would be Toronto.

[smirk5]

Now, the Republicans finally believe in global warming. Next, they will start walking upright.

[erasmus6]

There is another article on this site: "UN Chief Warns Of Water Shortages".

The U.S. is already getting water from Canada and because of global warming the shortage is supposed to get worse. We don''t mind helping someone in need, but do you think we should have to supply the U.S. with water when they are in huge denial about global warming and doing nothing about it? I don''t think so. To me that would be like donating a kidney to someone who is still drinking, wouldn''t it? What would be the point? I would be giving something up that was of great importance to me to someone that doesn''t deserve it, don''t you think?

[realpatriot1]

jowand,

You seem to know something about making things up.

There is no debate on global warming in the scientific
or civilized community, only in the neanderthal community.

[fairandbal]

"GOP Hopefuls SPIT on Global Warming Plans" - this is the TRUE title of this article. Other articles coming in the next week:

"GOP Hopefuls SPIT on Working Americans"
"GOP Hopefuls SPIT on improved health care for children"
"GOP Hopefuls SPIT on the American Soldier"
"GOP Hopefuls SPIT on sound Economic Recovery Plans"