Testy Exchanges In S.C. Democratic Debate

Clinton, Edwards, Obama Squabble In First State With Significant Number Of Black Voters

(CBS/AP)  Democratic presidential rivals Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama accused each other of repeatedly and deliberately distorting the truth for political gain Monday night in a highly personal, finger-wagging debate that ranged from the war in Iraq to Bill Clinton's role in the campaign.

Obama told the former first lady he was helping unemployed workers on the streets of Chicago when "you were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board at Wal-Mart."

Moments later, Clinton said that she was fighting against misguided Republican policies "when you were practicing law and representing your contributor ... in his slum landlord business in inner city Chicago."

Obama seemed particularly irritated at the former president, whom he accused in absentia of uttering a series of distortions to aid his wife's presidential effort.

"I'm here. He's not," she snapped.

"Well, I can't tell who I'm running against sometimes," Obama countered.

The two rivals, joined by former Sen. John Edwards, debated at close quarters five days before the South Carolina primary - and 15 days before the equivalent of a nationwide primary across 20 states that will go a long way toward settling the battle for the party's nomination.

"The kinds of sharp exchanges we saw tonight probably don't do much to help any of these three candidates but might harm Obama the most," said CBSNews.com senior political editor Vaughn Ververs.

"Getting caught up in lengthy and confusing explanations about votes, whether in the Illinois legislature or in the United States Senate, makes Obama seem less like the transformational leader he has presented himself as and more like a politician," Ververs said. "The fact that both Clinton and Edwards pressed him hard on those issues made that perception stand out even more. At least the audience seemed to be largely on his side."

Clinton was the national front-runner for months in the race, but Obama won the kick-off Iowa caucuses three weeks ago, knocking her off-stride. She recovered quickly, winning the New Hampshire primary in an upset, and on Saturday, won the popular vote in the Nevada caucuses while Obama won one more delegate than she.

The Democratic electorate in South Carolina is expected to be roughly 50 percent black, an evident advantage for Obama in a historic race that matches a black man against a woman.

Even in the superheated atmosphere of the primary, the statements and exchanges between Clinton and Obama were unusually acrimonious. The debate came as the two campaigns continued to complain about dirty politics and disenfranchisement of voters in last Saturday's Nevada caucuses.

Obama suggested the Clintons were both practicing the kind of political tactics that had alienated voters.

"There was a set of assertions made by Senator Clinton as well as her husband that are not factually accurate," Obama said. "I think that part of what people are looking for right now is someone who is going to solve problems and not resort to the same typical politics that we've seen in Washington."

Clinton countered: "I believe your record and what you say should matter."

Edwards, who badly trails his two rivals, tried to stay above the fray while pleading for equal time.

"Are there three people in this debate, not two?" he asked.

"We have got to understand, this is not about us personally. It's about what we are trying to do for this country," Edwards said to applause from the audience.

Hillary Clinton, who was close with the Walton family, served on the Wal-Mart board from 1986 to 1992. In 2006, her Senate campaign returned $5,000 to the company's political action committee while citing differences with company policies.

A blind trust held by Clinton and her husband, the former president, included stock holdings in Wal-Mart. They liquidated the contents of the blind trust in 2007 because of investments that could pose conflicts of interest or prove embarrassing as she ran for president.

Chicago real estate developer and fast food magnate Antoin "Tony" Rezko was a longtime fundraiser for Obama. Prosecutors have charged him with fraud, attempted extortion and money laundering in what they allege was a scheme to get campaign money and payoffs from firms seeking to do business before two state boards.

Obama's campaign said Saturday it was giving to charities more than $40,000 from donors linked to Rezko. In 2006, when charges against Rezko were made public, Obama gave $11,500 in Rezko contributions to charities.

Often speaking over each other, Obama and Clinton bitterly complained about each other's legislative records. Obama questioned why the New York senator had voted for a bankruptcy bill that she later said she was glad hadn't passed, and Clinton criticized Obama for voting "present" on dozens of occasions while a member of the Illinois legislature.

"Senator Obama, it's hard to have a straight up debate with you because you never take responsibility for any vote," Clinton said to loud boos. "On issue after issue, you voted present ... Whenever someone raises that, there's always some sort of explanation."

Obama accused Clinton of playing loose with the facts and saying anything to get elected, while Edwards joined Clinton in criticizing Obama for the "present" votes.

"Why would you over 100 times vote present?" Edwards pointedly challenged Obama. He said he didn't simply refuse to vote on controversial bills in Congress. "It would have been safe for me politically ... but I have a responsibility to take a position even if it costs me politically."

Obama said most of his present votes didn't have political consequences but were because of technical or legal concerns.

"Don't question, John, that on issue after issue that is important to the American people, I haven't followed. I have led," Obama said.

"Present" votes are common in the Illinois legislature, and they have the same impact as a "no" vote. Legislators use them for a variety of reasons, from registering doubts about a measure's legality to avoiding a firm position.

With the holiday honoring the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., as a backdrop, the candidates also addressed questions of racial equality.

Clinton and Edwards compared their records on helping to alleviate poverty, while Obama was asked if he agreed with the famed black novelist Toni Morrison who dubbed Bill Clinton "the first black president."

Obama praised the former president's "affinity" with black people but also drew laughs.

"I would have to investigate more, Bill's dancing abilities and some of this other stuff before I accurately judged whether he was, in fact, a brother," Obama said.

"I'm sure that can be arranged," Clinton joked.

The two-hour debate was sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus Institute and CNN.

[jon2012-2009]

I am an old guy (71) and I would like to see some young idealistic people get into to office and get the old, more than two term pols out of office. Just look where all that experience has gotten us in the last 40 years, not a very impressive record.
Posted by tibu987 at 03:07 PM : Jan 22, 2008

I think experience has some value. It''s the only thing that offers a record you can examine. Without it, all you have is promise. You might as well throw a dart in the wall.

But I can see where you''re going with this. The system could corrupt you negating the experience factor. In this regard, neither Hillary nor Obama is in a state of immaculate grace. Hillary comes off better because she''s been around so long we''ve known the worst about her and the only thing I know for sure is that she has received a lot support from corporate inteterests. Everyone else does, don''t they? Except maybe Edwards. There''s your guy then except for the promise thing.

[hwy71so]

Snipe hunters...

[pepperwood2]

John Shattuck - He was U.S. assistant secretary of state for democracy, human rights and labor and is the author of Freedom on Fire: Human Rights Wars and America''s Response. His interview with FRONTLINE illuminates how America''s failure to intervene in the genocide was the result of bureaucratic and domestic politics and higher priorities. He says Rwanda never drew top-level attention in the Clinton administration because he was getting ready to make his decision on "most favored nation" status for China. Just One of the untold stories about Rwanda.

Bill was also in the process of teaching his new intern (Monica) on just what her job description covered, & Hiliary was still trying to find a place to hide the Travel Vouchers from the Auditiors.

China as a "most favored trading buddy" was pouring large sums of illegal contributions to the Clinton Camp to get Bill to go along with them.

The Genocide in Rwanda of Poor Black Communities by the hundred of thousands somehow couldn''t equate the large sums of money & benefits the Clintons were now pulling in from the Chinese.

Nothing''s changed or will change with the Clinton''s Policies of Personal Destruction. Don''t take my word for it - Research "Ghosts of Rwanda" and you''ll begin to hear THEM as they cried out to America & Bill Clinton for help. 1993-1994!

[cbsfan27]

I will vote for John Edwards if Hillary and Barack don''t stop fighting!!!!!! I like John anyway. I didn''t really care in the beginning which of the three wins. I know I don''t want Hillary to win and I don''t understand why I ever voted for Bill now that I see his true colors. He kisses the donkey of those he needs most and to heck with the rest of us. He is a very big disappointment to me as is his wife. I can see why Bill would want to have *** with someone else!!!!!!

[cbsfan27]

I just want to say that I watched the debate last night and I Hillary Clinton came out looking like a witch. I do hope that Barack stops aruging with her and does what he does best. He must continue to give us his uplifting speeches and focus on those of us who already want him to be the next President of the United States of America. Barack must show he is above the Clintons (and he is) and will not smear either Hillary or Bill. They lack the class to do that themselves. They only know how to fight and fight dirty. As one newscaster on MSNBC said today, Barack will lose if he allows the Clintons to cause him to banter.

Hillary looked like an evil woman last night. There was hatred in her eyes. A determination that showed she will do anything to win. I doubt she ever imagined she would have such a fight against Barack and John Edwards. Her claws are out and let her continue to show them. Barack, continue to show you are calm and not effected by Hillary''s smears. Let someone else on your team tell us where we can go to see the true facts, ie. your website. Show us you don''t have time to bicker because what you are trying to do is make changes and this smearing and fighting with the Clintons is not change.

God speed and God help you win.

Cheryl Stapleton
Milwaukie, Oregon

[ajmarine1]

Susan Cooper says it is "really hard to predict" if any of this material will be released before the election.

Bill Clinton has tried to cast blame for the backlog on the Bush White House. "Look, I''m pro-disclosure," Clinton said in a testy exchange with reporters during a recent press conference. "I want to open my presidential records more rapidly than the law requires and the current administration has slowed down the opening of my own records." But White House spokesman Scott Stanzel tells NEWSWEEK the Bush White House has not blocked the release of any Clinton-era records, nor is it reviewing any. (Under the 1978 Presidential Records Act, the former president and the current president get to review White House records before they are disclosed. Either one can veto a release.) Ben Yarrow, a spokesman for Bill Clinton, says the former president was referring "in general" to a controversial 2001 Bush executive order%u2014recently overturned, in part, by a federal judge%u2014that authorized more extensive layers of review from both current and former presidents before papers are released. (Hillary''s campaign didn''t respond to requests for comment.)

[realpatriot1]

Hillary presents herself as a cocky leader who would do best running a MAFIA Organization.

[ajmarine1]

Hillary presents as a confident leader who has done her homework.

Posted by l8c6 at 07:42 PM : Jan 22, 2008



I would like to see her White House papers.


emerging as an issue in Hillary''s presidential campaign: she cites her years of experience as First Lady as one of her prime qualifications to be president. Like other Democratic candidates, she has decried the "stunning record of secrecy" of the Bush administration; her campaign Web site vows to bring a "return to transparency" to government. But Clinton''s appointment calendar as First Lady, her notes at strategy meetings, what advice she gave her husband and his advisers, what policy memos she wrote, even some key papers from her health-care task force%u2014all of this, and much more documenting her years as First Lady, remains locked away, most likely through the entire campaign season. With nearly 300 FOIA requests pending for Clinton documents, and only six archivists at the library to process them, Archives spokeswoman Susan Cooper says it is "really hard to predict" if any of this material will be released before the election.


http://www.newsweek.com/id/57351

[realpatriot1]

18C6,

Is neocon a word you use when you can''t think of anything else to say

Unlike your Queen I spoke out agaisnt the invasion of Iraq and was called a commie and every other name you can think of at the time while Hillary was voting against the Levin amendment and for the blank check to Bush.

Mr. Hillary was President for 8 years, you know, 2 for 1?

So where''s the beef?

[l8c6]

What exactly does your Queen plan to do to make America less dependent on foreign oil and why the hell didn''''t she do it in 8 years?

Posted by realpatriot1

You expected that a senator of New York would manage to influence an energy plan that the right wing morons in power created behind close doors?

You come across as a neo con crazed sexist one who is delusional about believing self to be a "realpatriot"

Sometimes it''s just all to obvious why this nation is in such a mess.

[l8c6]

Hillary presents as a confident leader who has done her homework.

[realpatriot1]

RowdyTexan,

What''s strange is how ill informed you are, but another poster has already rebutted your ***.

What exactly does your Queen plan to do to make America less dependent on foreign oil and why the hell didn''t she do it in 8 years?

[pepperwood2]

General Romeo Dallaire 1993 - During the Rwanda Genocide "Why is it that Black Africans, sitting there being slaughtered by the thousands, get nothing?? Why is it when a bunch of White Europeans get slaughtered in Yugoslavia you can''t put enough capability in there?"

Bill Clinton our First Black President during this tragic time could not justify taking action our Black Brethern were crying out.

January 20 - 21 2008 - Hiliary turns on Obama with the help of Lackey John Edwards.

Kofi Anan - 1994 - "I would appeal to them to show sensitivity, to respect the sanctity of life, the dignity of each other. Even though they may belong to different tribes and different religions and different regions of the country, they don''t have to detest the other side, other person, so much to (be) like themselves."

The Clinton Legacy - Polarizing polictics of personal destruction. hatred an animosity. This may be FUN for Hiliary & Bill but after 8 years it is time to and bring this Country & People together. We deserve better!

[ajmarine1]

he says he isn''''t for nuclear power plants.

Posted by RowdyTexan2 at 06:14 PM : Jan 22, 2008



However, Bob Fullerson, the former director of Citizen Alert which helped turn Nevada into an anti-dumping state for nuclear waste, claimed the attacks on Obama''s record were unfair.

"It''s completely ludicrous and disingenuous to say that he is soft on Yucca Mountain," Fullerson said on the conference call.

But Obama does support the expansion of nuclear power plants, if there is better technology to handle nuclear waste. He was the only candidate to take that position at the Democratic debate this past Tuesday in Las Vegas. The issue of nuclear waste and power is a prickly one for the candidate, since Illinois is one of the largest generators of nuclear waste in the country.

Obama''s campaign released a fact sheet today quoting Obama saying that he believes every state should handle their own nuclear waste, rather than shipping it outside their own borders. Obama also joined fellow Illinois Sen. *** Durbin in writing a letter in 2006 to Sen. Pete Domenici (R-NM) that said no regional nuclear waste sites should be created without local populations having veto power over the site.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/17/585257.aspx

[rowdytexan2]

Posted by realpatriot1 at 04:11 PM : Jan 22, 2008

Strange isn''t it how words can be twisted...just like when Obama started pointing fingers at the Clintons claiming they were putting down MLK''s civil rights efforts!

Strange, too, how Mr. Obama can''t remember that he helped sponsor a bill that would allow the building of 17 nuclear power plants...and then in Nevada where they would dump the nuclear waste, he says he isn''t for nuclear power plants. He even twists his own words...strange isn''t it?

[rowdytexan2]

Posted by thgdriver at 02:41 PM : Jan 22, 2008

The democrats in congress are doing just what they need to be doing. And that''s not sending the Bush bastward any legislation to sign or veto. We don''t want anymore legislation sent back to be written his way. He''s been rendered powerless...after he spends that final $70 billion he got for his terrorism in the middle east project! He''s done!!! Fini!!!

[realpatriot1]

SearingTruth,

What I took from the interview, and i think it''s clearly true, is that the republicans have been perceived as being the party of ideas. By saying the past 10-15 years he''s talking about Clinton stealing issues from the republicans like welfare reform and law and order. The "ideas" behind those proposals were initially raised by the republicans and the voters know it.

They also know that the Republicans talked about these problems for years but it took a Democrat to actually do something about them and it would''ve been better if he had said that.

However, he didn''t praise Reagan or Republicans with that comment. As I read it he was calling upon Democrats to become the party known for both proposing and enacting new ideas.

What''s wrong with that?

[searingtruth]

"SearingTruth
Thanks for the Obama paragraph, it speaks loads for him, and contrary to what you say, it is a very favorable positon to me and, I am sure, many other voters."
tibu987


And that''s fine fellow citizen. I just want people to be aware of the interview, and hopefully watch it for themselves in its entirety.

I was left with the feeling that Obama was either very naive, or more likely a center-right to right wing candidate rather than a progressive one.

He certainly didn''t have anything to say about restoring our Constitution, and declared the Republicans "challenging of conventional wisdom" a good thing. And yet the only conventional wisdom the Republicans have challenged over the last 10 to 15 years is that we are a nation governed by our Constitution, and the rule of law, and that greed is not a guiding light.

In fact, I believe a McCain/Obama-Obama/McCain ticket would be almost unstoppable, and solidify our nations abandonment of its Constitution and rule of law.

But that''s all I have to say about him, and certainly am no supporter of either party in general, although I recently decided that if a viable Independent candidate vowing to restore our Constitution doesn''t appear I will vote for Edwards.

So I''ll leave it up to you and the other citizens on this forum to hash this one out. I don''t think my head could take that much spinning right now.
ST


"Once again, a mirage of salvation condemning all."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave - www.searingtruth.com

[tibu987]

SearingTruth

Thanks for the Obama paragraph, it speaks loads for him, and contrary to what you say, it is a very favorable positon to me and, I am sure, many other voters.

[bobnjersey]

[All 5 of the congressmen who were expelled from congress were DEMOCRATS. Both presidents who were impeached were DEMOCRATS.]
[Posted by trapbreak at 03:09 PM : Jan 22, 2008]

so ... as long as you don''t leave there''s nothing wrong?

is this what bush, cheney, gonzalez, rove, and larry craig are/were doing?