Jan. 10, 2008
Evangelicals A Key Part Of S.C. GOP Race
Huckabee Counting On Support From Christian Conservatives, But Others Are Courting Them
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Republican presidential hopeful and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and his wife Janet Huckabee, right, tour the Carolina Pregnancy Center with center director Alexia Newman in Spartanburg, S.C. Wednesday, Jan. 9, 2008. (AP)
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A win there in the Jan. 19 primary would keep the former Southern Baptist minister and Arkansas governor in strong contention for the Republican presidential nomination, no matter how he does in the Michigan voting that comes first.
"He is tailor-made for South Carolina voters, better so than Bush in 2000," contends former South Carolina Gov. David Beasley, a Huckabee backer. But Huckabee's hardly alone in seeking - and gaining - support from evangelicals.
Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson have won important endorsements. John McCain is trying to mend fences after a difficult primary experience in South Carolina in 2000.
As in Iowa, where he won the Republican caucuses, the cash-strapped Huckabee is relying on pastors to help get out the vote. And he also has the support of some in the political establishment - Beasley is one - giving him organizing power he lacked in other early voting states. That could make a difference to pragmatic evangelical voters, who want a candidate who could actually win the nomination.
His background has given him some advantages. He spoke in early November at a "pastors' policy briefing" similar to those staged in Iowa and New Hampshire, where local pastors can meet with national Christian Huckabee supporters.
"He's had wonderful opportunities to talk to the 'grasstops,' these pastors who preach to hundreds of people, while not spending any money," said Oran Smith, executive director of the Palmetto Family Council, an anti-abortion group that has remained neutral on the presidential race. "Being a Baptist minister and a candidate for president, no one would want to turn him away."
White evangelicals account for 53 percent of the state's likely Republican voters, according to the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press.
Still, they "are not a monolithic group here and don't always vote together," cautioned Danielle Vinson, a political science professor at Furman University in Greenville. "Their leadership isn't giving them very clear signals this time, either."
South Carolina's political and religious elite have scattered endorsements across the GOP field:
Another question is the resurgent McCain, who has sought to mend relations with evangelicals after his bitter South Carolina defeat in 2000. McCain has a strong advocate in Lindsey Graham, the state's other U.S. senator.
In 2000, the Christian Coalition was credited with boosting George W. Bush by distributing material spotlighting "disturbing facts about John McCain," including his stances on stem-cell research and campaign finance overhaul. In one sign of how South Carolina's evangelical dynamics have changed, the weakened coalition is sitting out this primary altogether.
Huckabee supporters are quick to point out that many of the state's endorsements came before their candidate emerged as a conservative contender.
Among the state's 700,000 Southern Baptists, support for Huckabee is mixed, but many now view him as an electable candidate who shares their evangelical values, said Southern Baptist Convention President Frank Page, a pastor in Taylors, S.C. "Baptists are pragmatists who support those who they believe to be electable and consistent with pro-family policies," Page said in an e-mail to The Associated Press.
Some evangelicals are wary of Huckabee, believing he is too liberal on issues such as poverty, health care and the environment. Page, while not endorsing anyone, dismissed those criticisms, calling Huckabee a "caring, genuine, humble person."
In the final campaign stretch in South Carolina, Huckabee backers will distribute voter guides and air radio announcements urging Christian pastors to speak out on moral issues and encourage people to vote, said Janet Folger, a Florida-based talk show host and co-chair of Huckabee's Faith and Family Values Coalition.
In Iowa, pro-Huckabee pastors reported receiving unsigned letters warning them that getting involved in the race would endanger their churches' tax-exempt status - and Folger said she expects more of the same.
During a rally Wednesday at a hotel ballroom in Spartanburg, Huckabee found a receptive audience that included a homeschooling mother, abortion rights opponents and a woman who said she learned only recently Huckabee was a minister.
Jessie Davis, a 27-year-old mother of three from Inman, S.C., held her youngest, 8-month old Abbie, in her arms. Davis said the No. 1 thing that attracted her to Huckabee was "Christian values."
"He's going to ask God what do before he asks somebody else," Davis said after the rally. "God designed everything. He knows how it's supposed to work."
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- This is all well and good, but if nominated he won''t win the election. He can''t have it both ways (evangelical and moderate vote). America has endured 8 years of the "fruits" (in more than one context!) of the evangelical electorate and won''t let it happen again this time.
- Reply to this comment
- So I hope the religious nutcases in South Carolina realize President Hillary will be the one with her hand on the Bible come January 2009...so get used to it, Crackerdogs.
Posted by FlangeSqueal at 10:12 AM : Jan 13, 2008
Wow, you said a mouthful, very accurate and funny too. But don''t forget how Patricia Robertson just sold her sole to the devil when she backed the relatively liberal John McCain who has been anything but a faithful soldier against Roe v. Wade. Robertson cut a deal with McCain for sure, but I doubt the pay-off is overturning Roe -- it''s probably more to do with helping Pattycakes amass even more wealth by stealing it from the poor and the eldery, which, by the way, you and I end up footing the bill for. - Reply to this comment
- Hillary Clinton? "Cattle Futures" Clinton? The woman who is as faithless as her husband? A woman who has supported Bush''s War from the beginning? The woman who is getting support from Rupert Murdoch, the owner of FOX? The woman who has the support of many among the Defense Industry and many more who support Israel-first and America, second, third or not at all?...If Americans are stupid enough to vote for her--or any of the other mainstream candidates, then...they will most certainly deserve them.
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- Candide777--The Salvation Army is just about the only mainstream organization that I will support--the money gets to the people who need it and the CEO doesn''t rob the till like the thief that was at United Way and his well-heeled successors.
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- Evangelicals have a choice--they can support their Savior and His Message of Peace and Brotherhood, or they can support the message of those whose message is one of everlasting war and support for the teachings and traditions of men that the Teacher condemned. Hucksterbee, like Bush, is one of the latter...a man who hires a foreign policy advisor who wants the Constitution and Bill of Rights to be set aside for world government by "elite consensus."
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- Just look at the word evangelical - take the letters and re-arrange them - they spell Evil Angels! The Devil. These leaders of the so called evangelicals are Evil people who do not care about anything but teaching hatred.
You have to wonder why they don''t teach Peace - they are soo much like the so called Evil Muslim Clerics it is hard to distinguish between the 2 of them - except the Christians are driving Rolls Royce''s and the Muslims have those ugly beards.
Just look at the last 50 years of the evangelical speeches - like Pat Robertson - all he talks about is filled with Hatred because others do not live the way he expects them too.
Time to wake up America - Evangelicals will be our demise. - Reply to this comment
- CHARACTER, ETHICS, AND MORAL VALUES ARE VITAL FOR OUR FUTURE PRESIDENT, religious affiliation is not and should not be a factor. America was founded both on Freedom OF Religion and freedom FROM religion.
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- To hear all these church goers they are the only one doing good in this world.
Posted by starleo14672 at 08:45 PM : Jan 11, 2008
The right wing evangelicals have a bizarre and twisted idea of what atheists are like. They think we live some sort of dank, dark, lives of hopeless and despair. It makes them feel better to think so anyway. The truth is that I''m an atheist and my life is quite happy. However if they were to accept the idea that a person can be just as happy without believing in the myth that they do, then their whole faith and world view would crumble like the house of cards that it is. For many people the idea of being without the crutch of religion is just to frightening to bear. - Reply to this comment
- By the way, erichsh, even though I am an atheist, I have volunteered a number of times at a nearby church to help distribute food to the poor. I do wonder how much charitable work done by atheists every day is credited to believers.
Posted by Candide777 at 07:47 PM : Jan 11, 2008
You are a perfect example to do good in this world all you have to do is find a cause and get it done. To hear all these church goers they are the only one doing good in this world.With all this evangelical stuff the media is portraying it looks like they are the only one that has the right to vote.we just had 7 going on 8 years of a President elected by the religious right haven''t you got your fill yet - Reply to this comment
- For example, there are countless charitable organizations like "Habitat for Humanity" and the "Salvation Army" who work to help out the less fortunate.
Posted by erichsh at 07:16 PM : Jan 11, 2008
By the way, erichsh, even though I am an atheist, I have volunteered a number of times at a nearby church to help distribute food to the poor. I do wonder how much charitable work done by atheists every day is credited to believers. - Reply to this comment
- Finewoven, how could your bible profess perfect order when, as you say and I agree, some planets are in a more circular revolution and some in a more elliptical revolution? Some speeding away and some floating away. Some about to be burned up and some millions of light years from certain doom%u201D How can you ask to have it both ways, perfect order and chaos? Again, anyone that thinks a god made this is not worthy of leading a nation. They show an amount of instability that makes for a better side show clown then a President.
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- My point is that for all the injustices perpetrated because of religion, there are countless more smaller acts of grace and decency brought about and bestowed by religious people. For example, there are countless charitable organizations like "Habitat for Humanity" and the "Salvation Army" who work to help out the less fortunate.
I don''t view religion in the same stark, grim, evil, monotone light that you do, that''''s all. Gotta go.
Posted by erichsh at 07:16 PM : Jan 11, 2008
If you got to know atheists, you would realize that all those countless more smaller acts of grace and decency come from being human, not religious. It''s simply wrong for you to credit religion with that.
Without religion, you have good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things. The only way to get good people to do bad things is with religion. I too, gotta go. - Reply to this comment
- Candide777 - I''m not going to dispute your contention that religion causes a lot of needless suffering. However, since I mentioned my wife, and you picked up on it, I need to clarify your conclusion for you.
My wife (like your grandparents) not only means well, she conducts her daily life according to her religious beliefs. Amongst those beliefs is that we are to all love and forgive, and harbor no malice. When I want to wring some idiot''s neck, she councils me not to because it''s not Christian. And I respect her for that. But since I''m not Christian I''m not bound by such restraint and grace.
The other thing that religion provides her is a deep self-assurance that she is loved by her God and Jesus, and her faith provides her with an inner peace and happiness I cannot claim for myself. Now go ahead and pronounce her (and, more to the point, millions of like-minded Christians) as blithering idiots worshipping a sky-father or what have you. I take a more charitable view - it if fulfills some inner need that I don''t understand, more power to them.
My point is that for all the injustices perpetrated because of religion, there are countless more smaller acts of grace and decency brought about and bestowed by religious people. For example, there are countless charitable organizations like "Habitat for Humanity" and the "Salvation Army" who work to help out the less fortunate.
I don''t view religion in the same stark, grim, evil, monotone light that you do, that''s all. Gotta go. - Reply to this comment
- Kind of like the dark side of the moon--never gets any light. Poor soul. Time heals most wounds, though some that fester never quite make it through.
Best of luck.
Posted by finewoven at 06:55 PM : Jan 11, 2008
Oh, that''s so sweet, and such a surprise, another pompous arogant "spiritual" type feigning concern for a fellow human being. Really touches me. Truth is, I''m fully recovered from religion. You see, I grew up and became an adult. That''s when I put away childish things, but hey, if you''re still amused by them, more power to you. Enjoy your journey. - Reply to this comment
- Since any other view would reveal the dark under-belly of religion.
Posted by Candide777 at 06:35 PM : Jan 11, 2008
Kind of like the dark side of the moon--never gets any light. Poor soul. Time heals most wounds, though some that fester never quite make it through.
Best of luck. - Reply to this comment
- Secondly, I can assure you I''''m not religious - just ask my devout Christian wife who would love for me to attend church with her, but I won''''t and can''''t.
Posted by erichsh at 06:21 PM : Jan 11, 2008
Ah, there in "lies" the rub. You are afraid that acknowledging the evils of religion means that you don''t love your wife. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have had dear, well-loved and well-respected grandparents who were devout christians. I learned to hate the sin, not the sinners. They meant well, and rest assured, they meant no harm to anyone, but the fact remains their religion has and continues to be the cause of a great deal of needless suffering on this earth. I cannot simply look the other way, and say, oh gee, what''s the harm? I know what the harm is, and so should you. Believing in lies is a dangerous thing, just look around the world today. - Reply to this comment
- Sure you did - right here:
"As someone who never had to suffer any of the real and painful injustices perpetrated by the religious in this country, I would expect you to be cavalier about it." - candide777
Finally, your question: "Now, how does a black Baptist woman contribute to the oppression and persecution of gay_ and lesbian americans, is that your question? Seriously?"
Yeah, seriously. . .
Posted by erichsh at 06:21 PM : Jan 11, 2008
First of all, the fact that you have not suffered at the hands of a religious person does not equate to being "exempt" from their hatred and intolerance, it just makes you lucky.
Secondly, I have demonized religion not, as you dishonestly imply, every single person on the face of the earth who is religious, though at some level they are complicit, just not consciously so.
Third, to answer your question, how about when this hypothetical black Baptist woman''s son realizes that he is gay and then commits suicide because he knows that his mother, the only family that he has, will never accept his shameful and dirty secret? I guess that doesn''t count in your book though, that''s his fault, right? Since any other view would reveal the dark under-belly of religion.
I''m not blaming his mother though -- when she buries her son, she becomes as much a victim of religion as he was. - Reply to this comment
- On the other hand, you''ve declared white non-Christian hetrosexual males such as myself as having been exempt from that hatred . . . Posted by erichsh at 05:28 PM : Jan 11, 2008
First of all, that''s a lie, plain and simple, I never said that.
Sure you did - right here:
"As someone who never had to suffer any of the real and painful injustices perpetrated by the religious in this country, I would expect you to be cavalier about it." - candide777
Secondly, I can assure you I''m not religious - just ask my devout Christian wife who would love for me to attend church with her, but I won''t and can''t. I urge you to read my posts literally. Talk about a straw man! You make a baseless assumption about me, one that''s not backed up by anything I''ve said, and then proceed on to your trademark rants about said false assumption.
Finally, your question: "Now, how does a black Baptist woman contribute to the oppression and persecution of gay_ and lesbian americans, is that your question? Seriously?"
Yeah, seriously. Like I''ve said, you''ve painted religious people with one broad, brush: "hateful policies", "absurdly stupid", "liars", "appalling silence", "cram their religion down my throat", etc. etc. ad nauseum.
Now if certain classes of religious people are exempt from these characterizations, then perhaps you can elaborate. And then explain why THEY are''nt stupid, ignorant, dangerous fools, but OTHERS are. - Reply to this comment
- to do exactly what he planned that I would do a long time ago because after all, he is god. Does that make sense?
Posted by adasher1 at 05:35 PM : Jan 11, 2008
And herein lies the confusion for most. Let''s put it a different way if you''ll allow. The planets in our solar system all have an orbit, some are elliptical are others circular (Earth''s actually changes over time based on a wobble and tilt). Would you be able to anticipate the different manifestations caused? When is the next lunar Eclipse? When is summer and winter? But afterall, you''re intepretation of what causes it is based on your knowledge. If you don''t have this knowledge you may choose to come up with some kind of story to explain (some myth), but only those who really know can give you the truth. - Reply to this comment
- On the other hand, you''''ve declared white non-Christian hetrosexual males such as myself as having been exempt from that hatred . . . Posted by erichsh at 05:28 PM : Jan 11, 2008
First of all, that''s a lie, plain and simple, I never said that. Secondly, you do seem to be pretty religious, are you sure you are not? Usually, it is the die-hard christians that resort to strawman arguments such as the ones you''ve been putting forth, which I hardly find necessary to respond to since you can''t have an honest argument. Also, typically, it''s the religious who believe, as you seem to, that everything is "black and white," i.e., that all religious people are either guilty or not guilty of the same evil conduct.
We certainly do seem to be talking past each other though because there is nothing self-contradictory nor complex about anything I have said: If we believe absurdities, we will commit atrocities. See, for example, 9/11; the Salem Witch trials, etc., ad nauseum.
Now, how does a black Baptist woman contribute to the oppression and persecution of gay_ and lesbian americans, is that your question? Seriously? - Reply to this comment
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