GOP Hopefuls Clash Over Taxes

Economy, Immigration Take Center Stage At Second Weekend Republican Debate In New Hampshire

(CBS/AP)  Mitt Romney and John McCain sparred Sunday over their tax and spending records and who was a better agent for change, in the second Republican debate in as many days as the clock wound down to the New Hampshire primary.

"You have a choice," Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, said after ticking off his accomplishments in office. "You can select somebody who wants to fight for those things, or you can select somebody who's actually done those things."

McCain listed the pork-barrel spending he has exposed, as well as an Air Force tanker contract he squashed, before responding: "I think it was a reason why I wasn't elected Miss Congeniality in the Senate. I have a record of saving billions of dollars."

Sitting elbow-to-elbow in a studio on the campus of St. Anselm College, the two rivals also continued a debate they have been conducting at long distance about who is better equipped to bring change to Washington.

"Throughout both Republican debates this weekend, Mitt Romney has been the focus, and that attention has not been at all positive," said CBSNews.com senior political editor Vaughn Ververs. "Both Huckabee and McCain are clearly annoyed by the millions of dollars in ads Romney has run against them. It appears increasingly likely that is was not money well-spent."

Citing his record as a venture capitalist, Olympics CEO and governor, Romney said, "I've been in the economy. I've been in the real world."

McCain shot back moments later: "I led the largest squadron in the U.S. Navy, not for profit but for patriotism."

Fred Thompson also jumped into the exchange, mocking Romney for saying the next president did not have to be a foreign policy expert so long as he was a good manager.

"My friend Mitt thinks expertise is important in all areas except national security," Thompson said with a sly smile.

He and Rudy Giuliani scoffed at the notion that change should dominate the political debate - as Thompson noted, just because Iowans said so in their caucuses last week.

Giuliani added, "Change is a slogan, and the examination has to be is it change for good or change for bad?"

There were several prickly exchanges between Romney and rival Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor who bested him last week in the Iowa caucuses.

At one point, Romney asked Huckabee a question as the former governor was responding to one posed by moderator Chris Wallace. Huckabee said he preferred to speak through the moderator.

Romney also prodded Huckabee about whether spending had increased during his decade as governor of Arkansas.

"You make up facts faster than you can talk sometimes," Romney said as Huckabee avoided giving a direct answer.

Huckabee said: "I had a court order that said we had to improve education."

The debate got under way as a new USA Today/Gallup poll showed the Republican race tied in New Hampshire.

McCain had the support of 34 percent of likely voters, up from 27 percent in mid-December. Romney was at 30 percent, down from 34 percent, and Huckabee - the Iowa caucus winner - was third at 13 percent. Giuliani had 8 percent and Thompson was in the low single digits.

Ron Paul was excluded from the debate by the sponsor, the Fox News Channel. The New Hampshire Republican Party dropped its co-sponsorship of the forum to protest the exclusion.

As the clocked ticked to less than 48 hours before voting began, McCain declared "I will win" Tuesday's primary, while Romney scrambled to keep a second big race from slipping away after posting second in the caucuses.

"I'm planning on winning in New Hampshire," said Romney, but he added, "It may not happen."

Huckabee also downplayed his own prospects but said: "We're going to do better than expected."

The acrimony of their debate Saturday night spilled over into Sunday morning as the top candidates made the rounds of TV news shows before heading out for campaign stops in snowy New Hampshire. They sought to correct their own verbal missteps as well as take swipes at their opponents.

Romney argued that his positions as he runs for president are consistent with the actions he took as governor - despite evidence that he has shifted to the right on some issues. He castigated politicians who he said are more interested in personal insults than changing government - even as his campaign sought to portray McCain as a nasty candidate who has a record of personally going after opponents.

McCain, for his part, tried to walk a careful line.

He didn't mention his opponent during a question-and-answer session at a Salem school, and he mostly resisted engaging in a back-and-forth with Romney when pressed by reporters. He insisted he was focused on running a positive campaign.

McCain, did, however, repeat a claim against Romney that has almost become a standard part of his pitch: "He has changed his position on almost every major issue," McCain said at one point then added: "That doesn't mean he's not a good person."

Projecting confidence, McCain proclaimed in a TV interview: "I will win." Underscoring how much is at stake in New Hampshire, he added that victory is "vital" to his candidacy.

Later on his campaign bus, McCain qualified his prediction of a New Hampshire victory. "I believe I will win, but a lot of things can happen between now and Tuesday when the polls close," McCain said, adding that many New Hampshire Republicans still haven't decided whom to support.

Huckabee spoke of "a brotherhood" of sorts with McCain, fueled by Romney's criticism. "We have both been brutally assaulted by Governor Romney with amazingly misleading ads that attacked and distorted and misrepresented our records, Romney attacking me in Iowa, attacking him in New Hampshire," Huckabee said.

At the same time, Huckabee, who has styled himself as a straight-shooting candidate, confronted his own string of inconsistencies, including recent ones on the troop increase strategy in Iraq, the Writers Guild Strike, and gambling.

"People are going to go through and nitpick. And that's fine," he said. "But I'll tell you why we won Iowa. We won Iowa because people believed that there was a need for somebody who had clarity in his positions. And I've stuck by those positions."

He said he hasn't changed his positions on gun rights, life issues, family values and President Bush's tax cuts. He said he had made some verbal slips but "I think most of us do, especially if we talk as much as politicians do."

[moxford0]

Between the Iraq war and tax cuts for the wealthy, Bush succeded in nuking America. Once again let''s keep the illegal immigrants and send the Republican party to a bathroom stall with Sen.Larry Craig. Mexico wouldn''t want them.

[candide777]

Awww, shux, if you fellas want Texas, you better dumb it down reeeeeeeeeeel good, mmmmkay? I''m talkin'' cro-magnon, but don''t mention cro-magnons; that causes a Texan''s head to explode because the Bible says the earth didn''t exist back then.

[standlee5]

I wish a candidate would lay out graph and pie chart style what we all pay in taxes. We pay taxes on every blasted aspect of our lives. We have taxes on top of taxes and never once do we talk about shrinking this massive bloated wasteful govt. It drives me nuts.

[candide777]

If Reagan were alive today: "I didn''t leave the Republican party -- it left me. I''m joining the Bloomberg revolution. No self-respecting American would call himself a republican today."

[vilyn1]

Ron Paul is the only one who understands economics, fiscal responsibility, and taxes. He is the only one that offers a real solution to our problems. The other 5 candidates argue like 10 year olds on a playground because they don''t know what they''re talking about. Personally I don''t understand how any of them even got to where they are today.

[tibu987]

It just goes to show how distant the Republicans are from the electorate.
Let me give them a clue.

Any available medical insurance is too expensive for the average American.
The immigration problem, while important, should NOT take center stage above all the other problems the average American has.
What we want is "change", yes, change from the old pols resposible for the mess this country is in. A new, fresh outlook that takes into consideration all Americans and not just the wealthy.
We want an end to the war(s) in the Middle East, and our troops to come home.
We want a stronger economy and more jobs.
We want our infrastructure to be safe and well maintained.
We want to have the best schools and teachers for our children.
We want to be safe on our streets.
We want the wishy-washy politicians, purveyors of pork, out of office.
We want to be rid of the staus quo politicians who line their pockets and feed from the public trough.
We demand honesty from our government officials.
I believe those are some of the major issues and needs of the majority of the average voting public, and they get scant attention from the candidates.
Most of the presidential candidates are multi-millionaires that long ago lost touch with the average American and have no inkling about what our needs and sufferings are about.
And that is why Obama is in the lead, he is the only one who has shown some concern for the average American.
''Nuff said.

[neobrian-2009]

GOP`s PLATFORM Greed,Racism and Bigotry!
Hmm ?,.Gates or Trump running for President? Good Idea!
The GOP left ''mainstream America'' long ago!
'' Corruption ''comes to the minds of 72% when speaking of this sect.This election Will show what the people know! No More republiCONS!

[nolalou]

grumpas, I agree! They complain about ''tax & spend'' policies of the Democrats, but not about Bush''s ''borrow and spend'' policies! He has this country in trillions of dollars in debt, to countries like communist China ! But what does he care, the next generation will just have to figure out how to pay it!

[grumpas]

It''s just another scam of Republican''s! Which is the single biggest reason I don''t even listen to anything they have to say anymore. They start the ''tax and spend Democrat''s'' every election. And the ignorant follow them like the pied piper to their doom. While Republican''s never fail to ignore their own sorry records when it comes to tax cuts for the rich, pork for ignorance like abstinence only *** education and the war of choice that''s devouring us. Why people vote for these people often makes one wonder how the voting public can get any dumber. It often makes one wonder just how far they will let Robber Baron Republican''s go to keep from paying their fair share of the tax load. Most aren''t bright enough to even know how much they actually pay anyway.

[likeitis5050]

LIARS,...GOP=Greed,Racism and Bigotry.
NO More GOP ! Friends Don`t let friends vote republicon. Posted by neobrian

Liars apply and get elected in all parties. (Clintons...!!! Hands down the biggest ever to be in any office!!)
Greed? Name 4 Republican billionairs to rival Gates & Trump (Democrats).
Bigotry is a given for Democrats as well as Republicans. If you don''t want the same old c.rap, say so...but don''t try to lay something at the feet of one party that can found in any party operating business as usual!!!!

[prinzowhales]

Here is a link to a story from the SUNDAY TIMES on the Israeli-Pakistani-Turkish axis of nuclear spies who Sibel Edmunds, the former FBI whistleblower, says paid high-ranking US government officials for nuclear secrets. She states if the the tapes she translated were publicized, there would be many high level Bush officials facing criminal trials.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19006.htm

WHY IS THIS STORY IGNORED BY THE SWINE AT CNNFOXPBSABCNBCABCCBS?

While Israel spies on the US, Bush goes to Israel and the Israelis demand their aid to be delivered in EUROS!!

The candidates will not address this treason! The ''American'' mainstream media will not address this treason! How much longer will Americans keep their heads buried up their nether regions?!!

[antoniof123]

The Republicans promise tax reform but reform means to improve.

Let''s see bridges fall for no reason or because of a lack of repair. Infrastructure falling apart because the money isn''t there to fix it.

The Great GOP fix it let''s borrow money to pay for it then let our children and grand children pay our debts. The way they figure it the Democrats will be in charge by then and have to fix it.

Wait they are going to be in charge next year. Oh that is right they Republicans broke it again and now the Democrats have to fix it again.

[antoniof123]

We have YET to see the results of the stupid War in Iraq either.

Posted by MCVet at 06:45 AM : Jan 07, 2008

You are so right but we are already seeing the beginning of the effects. Turkey, Kenya, Pakistan and the list just keeps growing. By the time the Republicans realize what they have done the only thing they will be sorry for is that they didn''t destroy the evidence, just like in Nixon''s case.

[taotxzen]

From Hype to Fear
By PAUL KRUGMAN

The unemployment report on Friday was brutally bad. Unemployment rose in December, while job creation was minimal %u2014 and it%u2019s highly likely, for technical reasons, that the job number will be revised down, showing an actual decline in employment.

It%u2019s the latest piece of bad news about an economy in which the employment situation has actually been deteriorating for the past year. It%u2019s no longer possible to hope that the effects of the housing slump will remain %u201Ccontained,%u201D as one of 2007%u2019s buzzwords had it. The levees have been breached, and the repercussions of the housing crisis are spreading across the economy as a whole.

It%u2019s not certain, even now, that we%u2019ll have a formal recession, although given the news on Friday you have to say that the odds are that we will. But what is clear is that 2008 will be a troubled year for the U.S. economy %u2014 and that as a result, the overall economic record of the Bush years will have been dreary at best: two and a half years of slumping employment, three and a half years of good but not great growth, and two more years of renewed economic distress.

(cont)

[taotxzen]

(cont)

The November election will take place against that background of economic distress, which ought to be good news for candidates running on a platform of change.

But the opponents of change, those who want to keep the Bush legacy intact, are not without resources. In fact, they%u2019ve already made their standard pivot when things turn bad %u2014 the pivot from hype to fear. And in case you haven%u2019t noticed, they%u2019re very, very good at the fear thing.

You see, for 30 years American politics has been dominated by a political movement practicing Robin-Hood-in-reverse, giving unto those that hath while taking from those who don%u2019t. And one secret of that long domination has been a remarkable flexibility in economic debate. The policies never change %u2014 but the arguments for these policies turn on a dime.

When the economy is doing reasonably well, the debate is dominated by hype %u2014 by the claim that America%u2019s prosperity is truly wondrous, and that conservative economic policies deserve all the credit.

(cont)

[taotxzen]

(cont)

But when things turn down, there is a seamless transition from %u201CIt%u2019s morning in America! Hurray for tax cuts!%u201D to %u201CThe economy is slumping! Raising taxes would be a disaster!%u201D

Thus, until just the other day Bush administration officials were in denial about the economy%u2019s problems. They were still insisting that the economy was strong, and touting the %u201CBush boom%u201D %u2014 the improvement in the job situation that took place between the summer of 2003 and the end of 2006 %u2014 as proof of the efficacy of tax cuts.

But now, without ever acknowledging that maybe things weren%u2019t that great after all, President Bush is warning that given the economy%u2019s problems, %u201Cthe worst thing the Congress could do is raise taxes on the American people and on American businesses.%u201D

(cont)

[taotxzen]

(cont)

And even more dire warnings are coming from some of the Republican presidential candidates. For example, John McCain%u2019s campaign Web site cautions darkly that %u201CEntrepreneurs should not be taxed into submission. John McCain will make the Bush income and investment tax cuts permanent, keeping income tax rates at their current level and fighting the Democrats%u2019 plans for a crippling tax increase in 2011.%u201D

What %u201Ccrippling%u201D tax increase, which would tax entrepreneurs into submission, is Mr. McCain talking about? The answer is, proposals by Democrats to let the Bush tax cuts for people making more than $250,000 a year expire, returning upper-income tax rates to the levels that prevailed in the Clinton years.

And we all remember how little entrepreneurship there was, how weakly the economy performed, during the Clinton years, right? Oh, wait. (I%u2019ve put some charts comparing job performance during the Clinton and Bush years on my Times blog, krugman.blogs.nytimes.com. It%u2019s pretty startling how comparatively weak the Bush era looks.)

(cont)

[taotxzen]

(cont)

Never mind. The whole point of scare tactics is that they can work even in the face of inconvenient facts.

And what I%u2019m not sure about is whether the Democrats are ready for the fight they%u2019re about to face.

Not to put too fine a point on it, Barack Obama won his impressive victory in Iowa with a sunny, upbeat message of change.

But there%u2019s a powerful political faction in this country that understands very well that any real change will create losers as well as winners. In particular, any serious progressive reform of health care, let alone a broader attempt to reduce middle-class insecurity and inequality, will have to mean higher taxes on the affluent. And members of that faction will do whatever it takes to scare people into believing that change means disaster for the economy.

I don%u2019t think they%u2019ll succeed. But it would be a big mistake to assume that they won%u2019t.

[prinzowhales]

Hucksterbee is right out of Regime central casting... like this FOX focus group actor uncovered by Paul supporters:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=79365

Hucksterbee chose as his foreign policy advisor a man who wants to scrap the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights and have a world government by "elite consensus" while simpering fools listen to him play the guitar...and praise his tax plan which allows the oligarchs to take their incomes abroad without taxation while working Americans pay a sales tax to cover the trillions of dollars in debt taken on by the Regime to feed the Oligarch''s kitty at Halliburton and other vile places! Chuckle-Heads for Hucksterbee! Line up for your Dunce Caps one step from the edge of the cliff!

[heartlandjim]

Mike Huckabee will suprise everyone. Finally a man in the republican party willing to take the big right machine head on. That''s what we out here in the heartland have been waiting on for a long time. Smirky grins, more of the same and talking points from the latest focus group don''t win me over. I went and studied Mike Huckabee''s total plan and it is is a great and workable one. Fox News is in the tank for Mitt. Three of the four panelists on last nights post debate show have ties to the Romney campaign trrough either working for them or endorsing him. Romney is not change. He would be 4 more years of George Bush!