Drawing The Line Between Church And State

A Closer Look At The Long History Behind Politics and Religion In America

(CBS)  Meacham cited another example: "In the Civil War, President Lincoln was presented with a proposed amendment to the Constitution to declare our allegiance to independence and Jesus … and in a brilliant parliamentary move, he referred it to a Congressional committee from whence it never emerged."

And another example, "Theodore Roosevelt, in 1908, was defending William Howard Taft, who was a Unitarian being attacked by William Jennings Bryan's supporters who were evangelicals who believed that Unitarians were not Christian."

And of course, lately, Teichner observed, we've been reminded of John F. Kennedy's famous speech.

On September 12, 1960, Kennedy said, "I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute. Where no Catholic prelate would tell the President, should he be Catholic, how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote."

Kennedy's self-defense to Houston ministers was that year's chapter in a long history ... Mitt Romney's speech was this year's.

In his speech, Romney said, "the founders proscribed the establishment of a state religion, but they did not countenance the elimination of religion from the public square. We are a nation under God, and in God, we do indeed trust."

The two speeches, 47 years apart, show how the conversation about what Jefferson called the "wall of separation" has evolved.

"Americans have tested that wall in every possible way," Meacham told Teichner. "We've run trucks up against it, we've thrown firecrackers at it, and the wall has stood pretty strongly. And it requires, I think, constant vigilance."

Because, as history and the First Amendment tell us, the relationship between government and religion is as fragile as it is strong.

[prayer4u2]

IN GOD IS OUR TRUST is a KeyPhrase in the last verse of The Star-Spangled Banner: "Oh! Thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the wars desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the Heaven-rescued land (that''''s U.S.) Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation! (that''''s HIM!)
Then conquer we must, for our cause it is just, And this be our motto:
IN GOD IS OUR TRUST Psalms 16:1)
And The Star-Spangled Banner
in triumph shall wave O%u2019er the land of the free and the home of the brave!" If prayer is outlawed, then you have also outlawed the poem & song aka The National Anthem! Begin the trend as all U.S. sporting events should begin with the last verse of our National Anthem (a poem, a prayer, a song never wrong; 3 in One like our God). Happy Holy Days (holidays) & Merry CHRISTmas

[prayer4u2]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof means the Supreme Court nor any other court can continue to perpetuate the fraud of godless secular humanism to replace America''s Congressionally established Judeo-Christian Heritage, "so help me God", Federal Judiciary Act of 1789. If Congress shall MAKE NO LAW, NO LAW is broken where none can not exist except the continued corrupt policey of fraud & hoax of political correctness. CHRISTmas is a FEDERALLY FUNDED HOLY DAY except for those trying to rewrite His Story in history, so much for separation. In 1777 Congress had Bibles printed during the Battle of Brandywine as the need was so great. Today I have grave doubts The People of Congress would attempt a return to truth "so help me God", Federal Judiciary Act of 1789. Law & Reason, Christ Jesus The Law-Giver & Reason for the Season. Yet, others will deny reason by denying the Reason for the Season. How unreasonable to continue to deny "our Lord" in the 7th Article of the U.S. Constitution.

[prayer4u2]

This is a Christian Nation...Holy Trinity Church vs. U.S. Supreme Court with over 87 legal case precedents in regards to those facts! Read it & research it as our U.S. Constitution in Article 7 was adopted & ratified "in the year of our Lord". Which Lord were the Founders referring to? The Truth of "our Lord" is self-evident and is the same Judeo-Christian Deity mentioned as Creator in The Declaration of Independence. GOD is mentioned in the last verse of the National Anthem. Whether or not Americans accept Truth is free choice. Denying "our Lord" in the Constitution under the HOAX of church/state separation is FRAUD!

[uzzisanta]

We''re not a Christian country. We never were. Christians don''t create governments to teach them their religion. Christian create government to fill the potholes. And build the roads. And build the bridges. And provide a secular common core education. And thats it. There''s no destiny.. There''s no guidance. There''s no inspiration. There''s no pre-empted wars.

[uzzisanta]

But don''t you see how unfree that is? You''re assuming Christ is the only way! A thing true in a religion, and not in a state. And that people who don''t know Christ can''t separate church from state. Because they''re selfish. Because they''re cynical. Because they only care about themselves. That assumes an awful lot about a complete stranger. Too much for a peaceful democracy.

[pilgrimsway-2009]

It all boils down to our nature in the core of our heart. Are we Self or Christ driven? If Self we are left to our own direction, if Christ driven we are living by the power of the risen Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So you see we cannot really separate church from state only if we come from the direction of self. Through Christ we can live apart from our old nature.
It is really not an issue of separation of church and state. Its an issue of self, what you want when you want it and how you want it and Christ, this contains equal justice from an unselfish volition. This also contains love from an unbiased agenda. So really the self centered person really has not religion as an problem but self verses Christ. At the end the day that is who we will have to answer to. Whoever you may be.

[prayer4u2]

Of The People, by The People, for The People...means we are the church & the state these two one can not separate because we are united which does not imply united for SEPARATION. United for separatism is still division. I recommend watching FoxNews'''' One Nation Under God on Christmas Eve & Christmas. It isn''''t like CBS hit piece on religious divisions within the Judeo-Christian denominations. This is a Christian nation...Holy Trinity Church vs. U.S. Supreme documents over 87 legal precedants in that opinion alone. The Treaty of Tripoli (1787) declared we were not a Christian nation only to save American hostages held by Islamofacists & almost 200 years later Americans were held hostage during the Jimmy Carter administration. A war against terror since the inception of our nation. 7th Article of U.S. adopted "in year of our Lord" & all the denials doesn''''t change that fact "so help me God", Federal Judiciary Act 1789. America has forgotten legal precedence in regard to Holy Trinity Church vs. U.S. Supreme Court Feb 29, 1892. I did my homework & recommend the same for others. If God is not part of ones constitution as one continue to deny "our Lord" contained in the U.S. Constitution, could it be said they have lost their god or their mind?

[prayer4u2]

My Country Tis of Thee last verse,
Our fathers''''s God to Thee, Author of Liberty, to Thee we sing. Long may our land be bright, with freedoms'''' Holy Light, protect us by Thy Might Great God our King! Protected by "our Lord" mentioned in the 7th Article of The U.S. Constitution supposedly The Supreme Law of The Land. If your constitution is godless, which god do you serve? America has forgotten legal precedence in regard to Holy Trinity Church vs. U.S. Supreme Court Feb 29, 1892.

[prayer4u2]

IN GOD IS OUR TRUST is a KeyPhrase in the last verse of The Star-Spangled Banner: "Oh! Thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the wars desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the Heaven-rescued land (that''s U.S.) Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation! (that''s HIM!)
Then conquer we must, for our cause it is just, And this be our motto:
IN GOD IS OUR TRUST Psalms 16:1)
And The Star-Spangled Banner
in triumph shall wave O%u2019er the land of the free and the home of the brave!" If prayer is outlawed, then you have also outlawed the poem & song aka The National Anthem! Begin the trend as all U.S. sporting events should begin with the last verse of our National Anthem (a poem, a prayer, a song never wrong; 3 in One like our God). Happy Holy Days (holidays) & Merry CHRISTmas

[prayer4u2]

CHRISTmas a FEDERALLY FUNDED HOLY DAY except for those trying to rewrite His Story in history, so much for separation. In 1777 Congress had Bibles printed during the Battle of Brandywine as the need was so great. Today I have grave doubts The People of Congress would attempt a return to truth "so help me God", Federal Judiciary Act of 1789. Law & Reason, Christ Jesus The Law-Giver & Reason for the Season. Yet, others will deny reason by denying the Reason for the Season. How unreasonable to continue to deny "our Lord" in the 7th Article of the U.S. Constitution.

[uzzisanta]

Ya think genuine faith is a sweaty old farrrtt with a sweaty upper lip telling everybody his sins? No. Its a ballet dancer.. who never says two words to anyone, and yet displays to all the world her genuine beauty.

I think this country is due for a gender change.

[uzzisanta]

I''ll tell ya why the founding fathers separated church and state. Its for your own protection. Religion separated from dogma. Healthcare separated from shoe salesman. Patriotism separated from political party affiliations. It cheapens what you believe in. It opens it up to undue scrutinies. To non sequitor scrutinies. And it makes something once genuine into a thing maniplateable.. and untrustworthy. It turns faith into a sale.. like an ambulance chaser lawyer who cries his sympathies make believe tears for the sake of a windfall.

It makes you look cheap.

[uzzisanta]

Do you always have conversations with yerself?

[bennyblack1]

When the gov''t forgets religion, it forgets the people. That is when tyrrany and totalitarianism take place.

[bennyblack1]

That''s my opinion. So, I don''t know if any of you will read it, or get anything out of it. It''s late and I missed the news.

[bennyblack1]

I know I repeated alot of stuff, but church involved in society would prevent alot of terrorism by simply being what God called the church to be, which is a provision for the needy, whether the needy are poor spiritually or materially.

[bennyblack1]

But, since we are trying to kick out the church and religion, what will basically happen is that reps and senators will rise without the congregations of these churches. There will be no representation of the needs of the congregation, and the reps and senators will FORGET where they come from, and pretend like the place never existed. A church will not let government forget.

[bennyblack1]

The government comes into play when a Church cannot fulfil the needs of the congregation. The church should be able to outline the needs of the community and present it to the rep. No matter how far reaching that community is, the rep is supposed to take note of it, and go there.

[bennyblack1]

They know if there is aneed for more police, a need for more social workers, or a need for a person to get on to some government social programs. That IS THE FUNCTION OF THE CHURCH!!!!! The church is SUPPOSED to reach out to people in need, NOT the government. The church is SUPPOSED to reach out to the friendless with friendship. The church is SUPPOSED to reach out to the hungry and feed him/her. The church is SUPPOSED to reach out to the naked and clothe them. The church is SUPPOSED to reach out to the homeless and GIVE THEM A HOME. It is SUPPOSED to educate the uneducated, whether child or adult. And, first and foremost, to teach a higher morality and to ingrain it into all those who have been given help: to help others in the same way. All these things are the duties of a wholesome religion. None of these things are the job of the government.

[bennyblack1]

Churches in general have a visitation policy, which means that chosen members of the congregation would send postcards to people, walk down the streets of their own neighborhoods and get to know people and their needs, meet their needs, and invite them to church. Once a poor and disadvantaged person is made known, then the needs are met on a constant basis by the people of the church.