WASHINGTON, Dec. 19, 2007
Congress Passes Long-Stalled Gun Bill
Bill Inspired By Va. Tech Shootings Flags Gun Buyers With Past Mental Problems
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Passage by voice votes in the House and Senate came after months of negotiations between Senate Democrats and the lone Republican, Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, who had objected and delayed passage.
It was not immediately clear whether President Bush intended to sign, veto or ignore the bill. If Congress does not technically go out of session, as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has threatened, the bill would become law if Bush does not act within 10 days.
"This bill will make America safer without affecting the rights of a single law-abiding citizen," said the Senate's chief sponsor, New York Democrat Chuck Schumer.
One of the House's chief sponsors, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, spoke in the full House about her husband, who was killed by a gunman on the Long Island Railroad in New York. "To me, this is the best Christmas present I could ever receive," said McCarthy, D-N.Y.
Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., added that the bill will speed up background checks and reinforce the rights of law abiding gun owners.
Propelling the bill were the Virginia Tech shootings on April 16 and rare agreement between political foes, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the National Rifle Association.
But other interest groups said that in forging compromise with the gun lobby, the bill's authors unintentionally imposed an unnecessary burden on government agencies by freeing up thousands of people to buy guns.
"Rather than focusing on improving the current laws prohibiting people with certain mental health disabilities from buying guns, the bill is now nothing more than a gun lobby wish list," said Kristen Rand, legislative director of the Violence Policy Center. "It will waste millions of taxpayer dollars restoring the gun privileges of persons previously determined to present a danger to themselves or others."
The measure would clarify what mental health records should be reported to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which help gun dealers determine whether to sell a firearm to a prospective buyer, and give states financial incentives for compliance. The attorney general could penalize states if they fail to meet compliance targets.
Despite the combined superpowers of bill's supporters, Coburn held it up for months because he worried that millions of dollars in new spending would not be paid for by cuts in other programs.
His chief concern, he said, was that it did not pay for successful appeals by veterans or other people who say they are wrongly barred from buying a gun.
Quote
Just before midnight Tuesday, Coburn and the Democratic supporters of the bill struck a deal: The government would pay for the cost of appeals by gun owners and prospective buyers who argue successfully in court that they were wrongly deemed unqualified for mental health reasons.The bill is now nothing more than a gun lobby wish list.
Kristen Rand, legislative director of the Violence Policy CenterThe compromise would require that incorrect records - such as expunged mental health rulings that once disqualified a prospective gun buyer but no longer do - be removed from system within 30 days.
The original bill would require any agency, such as the Veterans Administration or the Defense Department, to notify a person flagged as mentally ill and disqualified from buying or possessing a gun. The new version now also would require the notification when someone has been cleared of that restriction.
The bill would authorize up to $250 million a year over five years for the states and as much as $125 million a year over the same period for state courts to help defray the cost of enacting the policy.
Propelling the long-sought legislation were the April 16 killings at Virginia Tech. Student Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 students and himself using two guns he had bought despite his documented history of mental illness.
Cho had been ruled a danger to himself during a court commitment hearing in 2005. He had been ordered to have outpatient mental health treatment and should have been barred from buying the two guns he used. But Virginia never forwarded the information to the national background check system.
© MMVII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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See all 224 CommentsWhich is totally worthless in the case of events like the recent one with the guy who stole a gun from his family member and went on his rampage.
A 16 year old, Columbine types in school and the like are not likely to HAVE a "documented mental health history", and whether they do or not doesn''t matter one iota if they STEAL the guns.
Posted by newster1 at 08:08 PM : Dec 19, 2007
It''s not just columbine types . . . remember the great Darth Cheney Turkey hunt?
The problem has been decades in the making. Even the handgun laws on the books had been honored more in the breach than the observance, with faulty, spotty background checks, and essential non-enforcement by understaffed, overworked ATF agents.
Unlike the empty rhetoric that usually accompanies measures to counter terror, this bill will improve the current situation with handguns and public safety.
Wrong!
If every home was a potential deathtrap for criminals, how much home invasion crime would you see? All citizens over 18 should be trained in the use of and required to carry guns. The next school or mall shooting would end in a new york second if somebody was shooting back right away at these wackos.
If we all carried guns, I think we''d all show each other a lot more respect weather we mean''t it or not... which we could certainly use a lot more of there days. Put up or shut up is my motto... unlike the talking underdeveloped testicals we have spouting their BS in the media today.
Thanks for posting. We need more gun lovers like you posting your true opinions for the rest of us to understand the disease that permeates among the people in these days.
Here''s a bill I''d like to send up to the hill. You can''t buy a gun if you''ve ever SHOT AN OLD MAN IN THE FACE!
Are you kidding me? Gun folks keep saying we need to enforce the laws but what''s the point if they can''t even prevent Psychosis Boy from arming himself?
And by the way, the Second Amendmant is very clear about how it is a "well regulated Militia" that has the right to bear arms as a means for the "people", and not individuals, to express that right.
However, the person who murdered 8 people at a mall in Omaha obtained the AK47 from his step-father''s gun cabinet. So there is the challenge in preventing psychologically disturbed people from mass murder rampages!
McCarthy''s post traumatic stress, combined with Sarah Brady''s, is driving their own hysterical push to abridge our 2nd amendment rights. I don''t know what drives Schumer, but he obviously doesn''t care about the Constitution or Bill of Rights.
www.a-human-right.com
www.gunowners.org
www.jpfo.org
%u201C A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. %u201D
The original and copies distributed to the states, and then ratified by them, had different capitalization and punctuation:
%u201C A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
In both cases it is more than clear that the ones with the right to bear arms are "Militias" and not individuals.
In other words, the right that "People" have to bear arms can be done through a "well regulated Militia" and not individuals.
The word individuals is nowhere to be seen not only in the 2nd amendment but also in the writings of the authors of the Constitution when commenting on this amendment.
"People" as "Militias" have the right to bear arms, not as individuals, and it''s got to be "well regulated" to boot.
The NRA Freaks and their g-dd-mn lawyers have destroyed the meaning of the 2nd Amendment.
You are undoubtedly the stupidest supposed law quoter I have ever had the opportunity to deal with! Why dont you actually try to read the Federalist papers sometime instead of just quoting *** that the liberal news media feeds you, you moron. Who do you think the militias were *******? THEY WERE THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY! THe framers of the constitution were concerned that the the current government (King George) had disarmed the citizens so they could not defend themselves against his tyranny. Just because the current liberal *** court cant even understand themselves much less anyone else does not mean their opinions mean anything. Remember our illustrious court also at one time said that a black man has no rights that a white man is bound to respect, But let me guess, you believe that too.
It is the phrase "well regulated militia" that prompted various right wing hate groups to call themselves, for example, "the Michigan militia", presuming that registering themselves as a group with the name "militia" invokes the right, under the wording.
The part they conveniently ignore is the "well regulated" part, that is, that such groups be subject to control by regulatory authorities such as the military, or law enforcement branches of government.
Posted by drkingJD
Regardless of the existance of a few "Whites" who actually don''t believe it, you must admit that the record of American attitudes, both civilian and government, vis a vis civil rights for "non-whites" to this day still reflect the thinking of that original court decision.
Once again you miss the mark. Who do you think the law enforcement and the military were at that time.
IT WAS THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY WHO WERE TRYING TO GUARANTEE THAT THEIR WEAPONS COULD NOT BE CONFISCATED AGAIN BY PEOPLE WHO THINK LIKE YOU! (i.e. the crown)They were tired of the regulatory control imposed on them. Go to school, or better yet get a law degree so you can carry on a decent educated conversation instead of gushing your liberal defeatest democratic *** to people who may actually want to learn something.
Sir, you clearly don''t get it, do you? I''m not quoting the freaking "liberal media" I''m quoting the Constitution for crying out loud.
You can''t be that d.umb, can you?
Besides, I don''t know how much attention you''ve been paying at how the USA is run but it is run by the Constitution and not the freaking Federalist papers.
It is by the use of the Constitution that Civil Rights were granted. But the example that you give about how at one time a warped court decision made it possible to interpret the Constitution in such a f''d up way as to deprive others of their Civil Rights is more apt to my point than yours.
The Constitution has been misrepresented by gun freaks and they''ll keep on doing until they die.
I just hope this country comes to its senses and start putting the "well regulated" section of our Constitution to work.
And by the way you are the one who clearly does not get it.
gunnerv1
Amen
"The Second Amendment, as passed by the House and Senate?"
The house and senate was created by the constitution!!!!!! D****ss
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the
security of a free State, the right of the people to
keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
"The militia of the United States consists of all able bodied males at least 17 years of age.."
- U.S. Code Title 10, Section 311
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole
people, except for a few public officials."
- George Mason
"The Constitution shall never be construed... to
prevent the people of the United States who are
peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at
large is that they be properly armed."
- Alexander Hamilton
"The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone
who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry
"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- President Thomas Jefferson
"Americans have the right and advantage of being
armed -- unlike the citizens of other countries whose
governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
- James Madison
"To disarm the people is the best and most effective
way to enslave them."
- George Mason
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who
are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who
regard the preservation of freedom as the basic
purpose of their daily life and who are willing to
consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."
- President John F. Kennedy
www.a-human-right.com
Drinking Jack Daniels has clearly muddled your brain where somewhere in that vast empty space you''ve confused a debate with actual law.
Can you imagine a defense lawyer arguing to a judge, "Your honor, this law my client has broken was suppose to mean something else because one of the guys who wrote it said so during the crafting of the law".
Whatever arguments there were a law has been chosen and that''s the end of that.
Again, the word individuals is nowhere to be found. But whatever you think of it, it''s the "well regulated" part that needs to be put to good use.
-- Congressman Ron Paul, June 26, 2006
It''s People organized as Militias what the 2nd amendment is calling for regardless of how anyone else feels about it. Not People as individuals.
Read the 2nd Amendment, you won''t find the word "individuals" in it, do you?
Many thanks! It is a comfort to know that we actually still have real americans to depend on when and if theyre needed. There is still hope for the protection of our country and our laws. This country was actually created by independent thinkers as yourself. Thanks.
be to allow the subjected people to carry arms;
history shows that all conquerors who have allowed
their subjected people to carry arms have prepared
their own fall."
- Adolf Hitler
"The first thing we must do is disarm the people. A disarmed people can''t fight back."
- Adolf Hitler
"One man with a gun can control 100 without one. Make mass searches and hold executions for found arms."
- Lenin
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We wouldn%u2019t let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"
- Joseph Stalin
"Every Communist must grasp the truth, Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our Principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party."
- Mao Zedong
"On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini
- Aristotle
"Jews are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons.
Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.
Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew''s possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation.
Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions...will be punished with imprisonment and a fine.
Berlin, 11 November 1938
Minister of the Interior
Frick"
German Law, 1938
http://www.jpfo.org/NaziLawGerman.htm
"All permits for the carrying or keeping of arms...are invalid and must be exchanged for new certificates..."
Soviet Resolution, 1918
"Any violation of laws concerning...firearms are punishable by forced labor."
Soviet Law, 1926
"Whoever, without authority or good cause...is found in possession of guns...shall be punished with imprisonment."
Chinese Law, 1935
"Buying or possessing firearms or ammunition for use in athletic activities or for hunting...[shall be punished with detention]"
Chinese Law, 1957
"It''''s People organized as Militias what the 2nd amendment is calling for regardless of how anyone else feels about it. Not People as individuals.
Read the 2nd Amendment, you won''''t find the word "individuals" in it, do you?"
"It says the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" The militia you refer to was the people not the government, pinhead. They were concerned with the security of a free state. The people were to guarantee that! And by the way, laws are argued and interpreted everyday in defense of individuals. Of course you would know that if you had any legal training. Ive even argued legislative intent in defense of a client and won. Sometimes what is written gets misinterpreted as in your case. You want to argue that the supreme court says this or that but what you dont relize is that a majority of their decisions are erroneous and get overturned on a regular basis. You are arguing from an untenable position. Take the time to learn something about what you are talking about.
- The Dalai Lama
"The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi..."
- Martin Luther King, Jr
www.a-human-right.com
"It''''''''s People organized as Militias what the 2nd amendment is calling for regardless of how anyone else feels about it. Not People as individuals.
Read the 2nd Amendment, you won''''''''t find the word "individuals" in it, do you?"
"It says the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" The militia you refer to was the people not the government, pinhead. They were concerned with the security of a free state. The people were to guarantee that! And by the way, laws are argued and interpreted everyday in defense of individuals. Of course you would know that if you had any legal training. Ive even argued legislative intent in defense of a client and won. Sometimes what is written gets misinterpreted as in your case. You want to argue that the supreme court says this or that but what you dont relize is that a majority of their decisions are erroneous and get overturned on a regular basis. You are arguing from an untenable position. Take the time to learn something about what you are talking about.
extremely clear. My state has gun control laws.
It did not keep Hennard from coming in and killing everybody!
What it did do, was keep me from protecting my family!"
-- Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, Killeen Texas Luby''s massacre survivor
Posted by a drunk lawyer
So where else is the term "Militia" used anywhere to describe people as individuals?
But again, whatever you think of this it is the "well regulated" part of the 2nd Amendment that has not been put to good use and it''s high time we do that.
Want to go hunting? RENT the freaking rifle. Want to own a gun? A pistol should be more than enough. Owning anything else bigger than that should be a crime.
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