Court Told: Don't "Interfere" In Tape Case

Bush Admin. Claims No Obligation To Save CIA Torture Videos, Urges Judge To Not Ask Questions

(AP)  The administration of U.S. President George W. Bush has told a federal judge it was not obligated to preserve videotapes of CIA interrogations of suspected terrorists and urged the court not to look into the tapes' destruction.

In court documents filed Friday night, government lawyers told U.S. District Judge Henry H. Kennedy that demanding information about the tapes would interfere with current investigations by Congress and the Justice Department.

It is the first time the government has addressed the issue of the videotapes in court.

Kennedy ordered the Bush administration in June 2005 to safeguard "all evidence and information regarding the torture, mistreatment, and abuse of detainees now at the United States Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay."

Five months later, the CIA destroyed the interrogation videos.

Government lawyers told Kennedy the tapes were not covered by his court order because Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri - the suspected terrorists whose interrogations were videotaped and then destroyed - were not at the Guantanamo military prison in Cuba.

The men were being held overseas in a network of secret CIA prisons. By the time Bush acknowledged the existence of those prisons and the prisoners were transferred to Guantanamo, the tapes had been destroyed.

In court documents, acting Assistant Attorney General Jeffrey S. Bucholtz was concerned that Kennedy might order CIA officials to testify about the tapes. Bucholtz said that "could potentially complicate the ongoing efforts to arrive at a full factual understanding of the matter."

The administration has taken a similar strategy in its dealings with Congress on the issue. On Friday, the Justice Department urged Congress to hold off on questioning witnesses and demanding documents because that evidence is part of a joint CIA-Justice Department investigation.

Attorney General Michael Mukasey on Friday refused to give Congress details of the government's investigation into the matter, saying that doing so could raise questions about whether the inquiry was vulnerable to political pressure.

Even if Kennedy accepts the argument that the government did not violate his order, he still could demand a hearing. He could raise questions about obstruction or spoliation, a legal term for the destruction of evidence in "pending or reasonably foreseeable litigation."

Zubaydah was the first high-value detainee taken by the CIA in 2002. He told his interrogators about alleged Sept. 11, 2001, accomplice Ramzi Binalshibh, and the two men's confessions also led to the capture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who the U.S. government said was the mastermind behind the terrorist attacks.

Al-Nashiri is the alleged coordinator of the 2000 suicide attack on the USS Cole in Yemen, which killed 17 sailors. Like Zubaydah, he is now at Guantanamo.

David Remes, a lawyer who represents a Yemeni national and other detainees, has called for a court hearing. He says the government was obligated to keep the tapes and he wants to be sure other evidence is not being destroyed.

[newz4i]

Cheney/Bush administration, "If we broke the law, we don''t need anybody to find out."

[cfin5]

So don''t ask no,.....stupid questions. And I won''t tell you no lies.......LYNYRD SKYNYRD

[justsane-2009]

the man clearly has no understanding of the tricammeral system of government that we operate under in this country. he does not get to tell the judicial branch what to do. the founding fathers established the three branches of government specifically to protect the country from leaders like bush. i''m sure that he''s heard of "checks and balances"...perhaps he needs to bone up on them a bit.

[toolmangler-2009]

Posted by matvei1107 at 10:52 AM : Dec 15, 2007



Government has been run by a corrupt organization for centurys. (any side). Thats why Jesus said "to render unto Caesar, that which is Caesars and to GOD that which is GODs." (And keep GODs name separate from ''Mans Goverment'' because man corrupts everything he touches).

[culturechang]

He can tell the judges, but they dont have to obey. We will see if this judge has any kahoonas. Judges have failed us miserably in this country because they have allowed politics and religion to interfere with thier oath and duty.

[manner6]

What does it take to start impeachment proceedings? The administration telling the court not to ask questions is the newest outrage--one of way too many.

[rowdytexan2]

Looks like we''re going to have to waterboard the people in our administration to get the TRUTH! lol

My God, they are in open defiance of the people now. When is our Congress going to do what has to be done and IMPEACH these people!

They have already admitted that they used ''extreme'' torture on these people! They have now destroyed the evidence! Mr. Bush/Cheney ordered the whole thing and now refuse to take responsibility for their actions and are literally daring anyone to come up against them.

Somebody better get a grip on this situation before one of the other world powers decides we''re all terrorists and lob a nuke on us!

[docofthebay]

What''s the use in complaining about Bush? Biggest criminal is US presidential history, nothing gets done, he commits more criems, America suffers around the world. Maybe the one good thing that could come of it: MORE people will get out and vote next time. Last time, too many sane, educated, rational people stayed home hoping someone else would cast the correct vote.

[rowdytexan2]

Keep pushing, Mr. Kennedy, justice against criminal actions resides in the COURTS, not in the executive branch of this government!

[justsane-2009]

wow--you bible-thumpers try to inject religion into every conversation, don''t you? this has nothing to do with religion (remember that separation of church and state doctrine?) maybe you should try a nice 12-step program...

[taotxzen]

WASHINGTON (AP) %u2014 Attorney General Michael Mukasey refused Friday to give Congress details of the government''s investigation into interrogations of terror suspects that were videotaped and destroyed by the CIA. He said doing so could raise questions about whether the inquiry is vulnerable to political pressure.

Heck of a job Feinstein!

[ajmarine1]

Posted by DocOfTheBay at 11:15 AM : Dec 15, 2007

I have said "if Bush is as bad as everyone says, why hasn''t someone brought up impeachment charges? Why hasn''t someone gone to the World Court and filed charges; a symbolic act if nothing else?"

[cfin5]

Government has been run by a corrupt organization for centurys. (any side). Thats why Jesus said "to render unto Caesar, that which is Caesars and to GOD that which is GODs." (And keep GODs name separate from ''''Mans Goverment'''' because man corrupts everything he touches).

Posted by ToolMangler at 11:10 AM : Dec 15, 2007-----------------------------------------------------------------------Another good point. That''s why I pay my taxes. It''s got nothing to do with whether it is right or wrong (legally obligated) for me. I been on the playground as a kid. Learned real quick who''s bigger than you. Same deal here. Besides,.....I''m sure "Caesar" didn''t do everything according to hoyle either. Another point is there was a time that I owed and didn''t have it to pay. Asked God for the money as I needed it fast like he paid his from the penny in the fishes mouth and he did it for me,......still thankful for that!

[inbredwhty]

The Teflon president is at it again...

[neoconrcrazy]

"Government lawyers told Kennedy the tapes were not covered by his court"

then they wriggled out saying the judge mentioned Gitmo but the "terrorists" were elsewhere. Cute.

THE RULE OF LAW just doesn''t apply to bushit & co. -
an American judge gives an order which is rejected!

How in Heavens name are we going to continue as a country when our highest officials refuse to acknowledge our laws & system of justice?

It is a sorry day for our democracy when individuals, who we''ve elected to protect our laws and Constitution, drag them, and us, in the mud of fascism.

[sedean1]

Yup, here we go again! bush and his renegade administration, breaking all the laws on the books and the democrats sit on their hands and do nothing!
I have a feeling that bush baby and his cohorts will make this a very memorable year indeed!

[neoconrcrazy]

This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.

Abraham Lincoln


think it''s time to exercise that revolutionary right!

[formrusmcsgt]

Kennedy ordered the Bush administration in June 2005 to safeguard "all evidence and information regarding the torture, mistreatment, and abuse of detainees now at the United States Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay."

Five months later, the CIA destroyed the interrogation videos.
-----

This attempt to tell the judge to "not to look into the tapes'' destruction" is as obvious as a flouting of the law gets.

The court issued the order. The administration ignored it and did as it pleased anyway.

Now, the administration is saying "we ignored your order and want you to ignore it as well".

I mean, how arrogant can the administration get? Obviously, there just is no limit to their arrogance.

I hope the judge shows, in no uncertain terms, what he thinks of such blatant contempt for the rule of law.

[cfin5]

Hey Guys, A lot of good democrat and republican public servants get blamed for what democrat and republican "CFR" members do. Are you confused why some leaders act the way they do? Check to see if they are a member, either side, then compare what they do in office and you''ll get your answer.

[ajmarine1]

"I deeply oppose it," Schumer said of waterboarding. "Unfortunately, this nominee, indeed any proposed by President Bush, will not agree with this. I am, however, confident that this nominee would enforce a law that bans waterboarding."

Schumer, who was Mukasey''s chief Democratic sponsor, said the retired judge told him that if Congress passes a law banning waterboarding, "the president would have absolutely no legal authority to ignore such a law." Schumer said Mukasey said he would enforce any congressional ban the controversial interrogation method.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,307704,00.html



"if Congress passes a law banning waterboarding,"


If this is torture, what''s taking them so long?

[jumkey]

The dirty little secret here is that the Democrats are complicit in these crimes, which is why there is no move for impeachment. There is no "opposition" party - there is simply the US Government and the laws don''t apply to the people running it, whether Democrats and Republicans. Both parties are working in concert and illegally to violate the law and maintain their grip on power.

It''s now the citizens vs. an increasingly authoritarian and lawless government, and as history has shown that''s a very dangerous place to be.

[gkc99]

"Do not look at the man behind the curtain!"


It is now time to look at the man behind the curtain, the shadow government of the US who controls the Darth Bushit administration like Buffalo Bob controlled Howdy Doody.

Who are these billionaires and corporate bosses who tell a federal judge that he better not dare to order the preservation of evidence?

They are largely White, Kristian, Fascists, born in the USA or in Europe. This is a group that should be hated and feared. They are stealing our freedom.

[jumkey]

Caveat:

Given that Bush is asking the same judge to rule in his favor whose previous order he ignored gives me some hope. It''s going to take a lot of individuals to stand up and say "no" and take the consequences to change things in a peaceful way.

I''ve often wondered how different things would be if any of the Supreme Court dissenters on Bush v. Gore had simply resigned in protest instead of slinking away and allowing this criminal cabal to steal the presidency.

I wonder what stuff Judge Kennedy is made of?

[l8c6]

I wonder how many Germans wished at the time they could escape their country 60 some years ago.

[thinkingmom]

In answer to your comment...the news article to read is Republicans stop bill to ban waterboarding.


"if Congress passes a law banning waterboarding,"
If this is torture, what''''s taking them so long?

[l8c6]

This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.

Abraham Lincoln


think it''''s time to exercise that revolutionary right!


Posted by neoconRcrazy


It''s already been done. It happened insidiously with the Reagan attacks on big government and the people buying into the deceptive rhetoric. The people have allowed by their lack of participation or their being misled to place in power those who in the words of neo con Grover Nordquist have shrunk the government of the people and placed it in the hands of a few global elite corporate rulers who know no international boundries but have divided humanity and placed themselves at the helm of all dictates.

[cbs_oliver]

Kennedy ordered the Bush administration in June 2005 to safeguard "all evidence and information regarding the torture, mistreatment, and abuse of detainees now at the United States Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay."

Five months later, the CIA destroyed the interrogation videos.
-----

This attempt to tell the judge to "not to look into the tapes'''' destruction" is as obvious as a flouting of the law gets.

The court issued the order. The administration ignored it and did as it pleased anyway.

Now, the administration is saying "we ignored your order and want you to ignore it as well".

I mean, how arrogant can the administration get? Obviously, there just is no limit to their arrogance.

I hope the judge shows, in no uncertain terms, what he thinks of such blatant contempt for the rule of law.

Posted by formrusmcsgt

You can say that again. :)

[lorinkundert]

The Courts have a Constitutional obligation to interfere when the other branches overstep legal bounds. If that fails then the people have the obligation to bind their servant government.

[jumkey]

Ah yes, verifyuser and terrorislam7, the dumb and dumber of he CBS News comments page.

It must be hard to cut-and-paste to all of these threads while lacking opposable thumbs.

[ajmarine1]

Posted by ThinkingMom at 11:54 AM : Dec 15, 2007


I read the article, they headlines say the Republicans stopped the bill, but you read into it and it says, "Senate opponents."



Senate opponents of that provision, however, discovered a potentially fatal parliamentary flaw: The ban on torture had not been in the original versions of the intelligence bill passed by the House and Senate. Instead, it was a last-minute addition during negotiations between the two sides to write a compromise bill, a move that could violate Senate rules. The rule is intended to protect legislation from last-minute amendments that neither house of Congress has had time to fully consider.

Although it''s not unheard of for new language to be added in House-Senate negotiations and accepted anyway, the rules allow such a move to be challenged and the language stripped from the bill.

[skyk-2009]

Why does Nancy Pelosi refuse to answer questions and go into avoidance pattern regarding the video tapes of her being led round on a dog leash by 2 queer men in leather at the "Up Your Alley" street fair in SF?

LOL


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by verifyuser at 12:07 PM : Dec 15, 2007

What does your post have to do with this? Isn''t it about time you folks grew up a little here. We have a president who thinks he''s above the law and you post this....

The stink of the Bush torture coverup is already putrid. The Democratically lead Congress obviously won''t do anything besides the usually principled babble and we are left to some conservative judges who still actually have some principles. How tragic that the great United States abandons it''s principles for nothing and there''s no apparent way to get them back.

[trumpetstuff]

Tea, anyone?

[cfin5]

I wonder how many Germans wished at the time they could escape their country 60 some years ago.

Posted by l8c6 at 11:52 AM : Dec 15, 2007-----------------I heard that some ladies grandmother kept saying to her that the things that have been going on are EXACTLY the same rules/regs that the German Nazi party governed by. She didn''t pay much attention to it till her grandmother came over and presented a few old books of the Nazi ordinances (no info on their titles). She said that, after pouring through them, her grandmother was absolutely CORRECT!

[ajmarine1]

Posted by verifyuser at 12:03 PM : Dec 15, 2007


Washington, D.C. %u2014 Concerned Women for America (CWA) broke the story on Tuesday about an anti-Christian promotional advertisement put together by organizers of San Francisco%u2019s partially taxpayer-funded and hedonistic Folsom Street Fair%u2013sponsored by Miller Brewing, Co.%u2013 which will take place this Sunday. More than 400,000 people are expected to attend. The ad replaces Christ and his Disciples with homosexual sadomasochists in a twisted portrayal of Da Vinci%u2019s The Last Supper.

%u201CAs if the ad itself isn%u2019t offensive enough,%u201D said Matt Barber, CWA%u2019s Policy Director for Cultural Issues, %u201Cwe have photographic evidence that the San Francisco government suspends indecency and child abuse laws for a day, allowing fair goers to parade the streets of San Francisco fully nude, engaging in illegal public *** while taxpayer-funded police stand by and do nothing. Children are allowed to %u2013 and do %u2013 attend this event and are exposed to this activity, which is illegal child abuse. We%u2019re a nation of laws, and we%u2019re calling on Mayor Gavin Newsom to enforce the law and for San Francisco police to arrest lawbreakers on Sunday.%u201D

[fornicario]

Once again, our government has decided that it is above the laws it swore to uphold. The new twist though, instead of coming up with some tortured logic to support it''s illegal actions, it has decided to just stick a finger in the court''s eye, saying "We are above the law", while expecting the rest of the country to follow those same laws. I am thoroughly disgusted with how far we have fallen as a country, and I wish Congress would finally admit that maybe it is time for them to step up to the plate and defend what is left of this country, because it is obvious that this fine country that stood for so many things has now become the same tin pot dictatorship that we used to sneer at. A question, what is the difference between us and them now?

[underdogus]

(remember that separation of church and state doctrine?) maybe you should try a nice 12-step program...

Posted by justsane at 11:18 AM : Dec 15, 2007
try and tell the MUSLIMS church and state separation!! QUR''AN 8:12..ALLAH wished to confirm the truth by his words " wipe the INFIDELS out to the last..that means YOU ''just sane" merry xmas!!

[underdogus]

IT''S 1938 AGAIN... SO GET READY!!!!!

[grazinggoat]

What does it take to start impeachment proceedings? The administration telling the court not to ask questions is the newest outrage--one of way too many.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Manner6 at 11:12 AM : Dec 15, 2007

- Who still believes we are into democratic governing? if this is not dictatorship, someone could tell me... what dictatorship is? pleaeaeaease?

- Shame on this ugly administration. They are shutting the Justice up. Revolution is simmerin'' right at the steet corner.

-By electing such boot-licker as Hilary, be sure the pressure will not let over Justice. The only candidate who may be able to do something is Obama. Hillary is subjected to the same pressure from the Establishment.

[cfin5]

terrorislam,......I agree with your post. I''m against ANY fascist policy regardless of which party it comes from. I assure you that I am no Nazi,.....not even a little bit. I''m an American Constitutionalist.

[johnshaft4]

Place your bets...Who is more evil?
The "family value'' Republican ''Christians'' or the Muslims?

[macusweil]

Clearly there is ample war evidence of crime violations enough for the courts and Congress to act. The Dems in Congress should be very much ashamed of themselves for not pursuing this to the fullest extent. You know for a fact if the rolls were reversed and it was Bill Clinton the Repubs would be sure he was facing a special prosecutor to look into war crimes charges for these despicable acts. What secret deal did Reid and Pelosi cut to call of the dogs? Did Cheney agree to give them a fat piece of the billions looted from the US treasury, the "lost funds" in Iraq?

[underdogus]

DEATH TO AMERICA, THE GREAT SATAN!!! MUSLIMS MOBS in EGYPT, IRAN, IRAQ, SUDAN, PAKISTAN, SAUDI ARABIA, INDONESIA, AND MALAYSIA, WWIII has already begun and most AMERICANS do not know it!!!

[cfin5]

Place your bets...Who is more evil?
The "family value'''' Republican ''''Christians'''' or the Muslims?

Posted by JohnShaft4 at 12:29 PM : Dec 15, 2007-----------------Let me answer your question with this historical question.......What religious system financed the Communists to overthrow a religious rival namely Czar Nicholas, head of the Russian Orthodox Church in 1918.......I see bad fruit from them both, so both are BAD!

[searingtruth]

"When everything is secret, everything is legal."
SearingTruth


"And so, just as Hitler and Stalin before them, Bush and his henchmen recruited brutal sociopaths to torture and murder, accounting only to their personal will. Lending them, wholeheartedly and enthusiastically, all necessary moral and legal blessing.

I have always been curious, and wondered, who the American people thought were torturing and murdering in our name."
SearingTruth


A Future of the Brave - www.searingtruth.com

[searingtruth]

Today, in America, George W. Bush or any of his henchmen can simply point their finger at you, declare you an enemy combatant, and have you incarcerated indefinitely in a secret prison without charge or representation, where they have institutionalized torture and murder.

And for those Americans who think they are exempt, and don''t care about foreign citizens or their rights as human beings, think again.

You may have heard the term "Habeas Corpus" tossed around a lot lately, and heard that we have lost the right to it, but do you know what that means?

It means that you no longer have the right to be brought before an impartial judge to protest your imprisonment, or provide evidence that the charges against you are false.

For example, when Bush secretly imprisons an American citizen he doesn''t like he can simply say that they are an Afghani national caught on the battlefield of Iraq, even if they were actually a loyal citizen living in Boston who was illegally abducted at the mall while shopping.

And since you no longer have the right to Habeas Corpus you will never have a chance of the truth being told, and will be at the mercy of Bush''s psychopathic brethren for what remains of your lives.

Welcome to fascist America.
ST


"A whisper of horror.
That''s all we could hear."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave - www.searingtruth.com

[gkc99]

"I wonder how many Germans wished at the time they could escape their country 60 some years ago.
Posted by l8c6 at 11:52 AM : Dec 15, 2007

do not let the door hit you in the arse "=Posted by terrorislam7


And how many of the Nazis let the trap door of their gallows hit them in the *** on the way down, goosestepper? There WILL be a day of Nuremberg trials for the fascists who are attempting a putsch in America!

[searingtruth]

"I understand that many have no conscience, sense of humanity, or loyalty to The Constitution of the United States of America.

However there are selfish reasons that should drive even the soulless to abhor torture.

Their own children.

All those who gleefully extol the virtues of the torture and murder and inhumane treatment of prisoners, are giving our enemies, now and in the future, permission to do the same.

Is it OK if our sons and daughters are captured and then tortured and murdered, instead of being treated humanely according to the rule of law, and Geneva Conventions?

There have always been those who violated the rights of prisoners, even in the face of International law, but these people were kept to a minimum, and considered global pariahs because of the practices and examples of nations who didn''t violate it.

And though it''s already hard to remember, there was a time when The United States was considered the leader in protecting these human rights.

Now we are considered the leader in destroying them, and have unleashed far more evil than we can now imagine.

But soon, no imagination will be necessary."
SearingTruth


"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine, Dissertation on First Principles of Government, December 23, 1791

A Future of the Brave - www.searingtruth.com

[neoconrcrazy]

searing truth -

good to see your words again here.

it would be instructive to see what would transpire if a group of Americans would publically call for an insurrection against this government. Not our institutions, our government.

They''d all be thrown in jail as "terrorists" I suppose!

But the more logical thing to do would be to call for impeachment. It is beyond me why this has not yet been done, seeing how Clinton was practically "brought down" by a trifle.

Do you think the entire political class in this country has been hypnotized? Has hysteria taken over all those senators and represntatives ?

[sevenveils]

Where is the balance of power here? It seems as if this administration answers to no one. This maneuver is very Putin-ish.