Huckabee: Sales Tax Saves Social Security

Tells New Hampshire Residents He Wants To Eliminate Federal Income Taxes In Favor Of National Sales Tax

(AP)  Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee said eliminating federal income taxes in favor of a national sales tax would help save Social Security - an odd pitch in a state where residents pay no state income or sales taxes.

"Instead of basing our national budget off of payroll taxes for Social Security ... it means the base of funding is much broader," said Huckabee, whose shoestring campaign has surged nationally and in Iowa, which holds caucuses five days before New Hampshire's Jan. 8 primary.

"That's important because we have a declining number of people who actually live by their wages," the former Arkansas governor told workers at the Elektrisola plant in Boscawen, where workers make wires for electric guitars like those Huckabee plays, among other things.

The tax plan Huckabee has proposed, called the "FAIR tax," would eliminate federal income and investment taxes and replace them with a 23 percent federal sales tax. The poor would pay no net sales tax up to the poverty level, and every household would receive a rebate equal to sales taxes paid on essential goods and services.

It's a tough sell in New Hampshire, where residents do not pay state income taxes or general sales taxes. Scott Sweezey, a programmer at the plant who lives in Bristol, said he doesn't know how to make a consumption tax treat people fairly.

"Low-income or retired would pay the same tax as somebody who has a million dollars," Sweezey said. "I guess if you don't buy anything, you don't pay any sales tax, but if you do buy something, you pay sales tax."

A grim future looms for Social Security, because as post-World War II baby boomers begin retiring, the system won't collect enough taxes to pay for retirement benefits. The government likely will have to raise taxes or reduce benefits.

Neither solution is attractive, so presidential candidates in both parties avoid talking about them. An exception is Republican former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson, who proposes lower-than-promised benefits for future retirees as well as new private investment accounts.

Huckabee says replacing income taxes with a sales tax would also have the benefit of discouraging illegal immigration because they would be forced to pay taxes they're not paying now.

Not everyone in New Hampshire dislikes the idea of a federal sales tax.

Ken Schuhle, a Navy veteran from Dover, said it would eliminate loopholes that rich people exploit. "That way, everybody pays our share," said Schuhle, who listened to Huckabee speak during lunch at the New Hampshire Veterans Home in Tilton.

Huckabee also named Republican political strategist Ed Rollins as his national campaign chairman. Rollins was national campaign director for Ronald Reagan in the 1984 presidential election in which Reagan won 49 states.

"Ed is an unparalleled strategist and is well-known as the man who directed the most successful presidential campaign in the history of the United States," Huckabee said in a statement. "Ed's experience and track record of building winning coalitions within our party; bringing together social, economic and foreign-policy conservatives, and reaching across party lines, makes him a good fit for our campaign."

[rowdytexan2]

I really can spell, I just get carried away typing...

[rowdytexan2]

You know if we did my plan, we could weed out most of the IRS. Just keep the ones who make sure that everyone pays their taxes as earned.

Then we wouldn''t have this made rush to have to file every years, and then the made rush to send back refunds, etc.

Just think of all the money that could be saved in postage and paper alone, but salaries. Plus waste hundreds of hours in debate in Congress finding new ways to screw us all.

We might even be able to eliminate half those bast''ards in Congress, and their $100-$200 thousand a year wages, and insurance, and their drain on social security, and the salaries for those bimbos half of them keep in their office for entertainment that they call necessary to run their office. Think of all the food and drink costs we''d save from all the parties they have to attend, and all their travel allowances.

Then we wouldn''t have to hire CPA''s to protect our earnings from taxes.

I''m beginning to really like my idea.

[rowdytexan2]

"...Ed''s experience and track record..."

You mean trick record?

Well, first of all, those in poverty would have to come up with the 23% sales tax to pay in the first place. Guess what...they don''t have it. So I guess they won''t be buying anything. The second thing hard to believe is that at the end of the year the government is going to turn around and give it back. So what''s the purpose of collecting it in the first place? The second thing is, they''d be rooting around in every garbage can in America gathering up sales slips so as to get more rebate.

THIS IS THE DUMBEST IDEA BROUGHT FORTH BY ANY CANDIDATE!

A sensible plan might be to just pay a flat rate income tax, and remove all the *** loopholes and deductions and everyone pay their fair share. Some of the Scandinavian countries to this already. Wouldn''t it be a crying shame if the rich had to give up the same percentage of their money as I do?

[homespunlady]

Posted by jim3215 at 12:39 PM : Dec 15, 2007

Gee, guess the OLD house I bought for 10k would be cheaper than the ARM BAIT McMansion some fool''s now losing their future over because they BELIEVED it was a tax-free ATM machine. Maybe with that "added cost" it won''t seem to be such a "good investment" to the future suckers that fall for that line. Homes ARE depreciating assets for homeowners - they need maintenance or the fall apart. Improvements or the markets Might "raise the value" for a short time but over the long run it will only be worth what the market will bear and often that''s based on currency and land values.

I live in a state that believes in Personal property tax as well as sales tax etc. That example you gave of the 400k McMansion WILL cost MORE than the "tax" cost you gave over the years here. Cars, furs even chickens get "taxed" here.

The ONLY thing taxes are meant for is ASSET REALLOCATION and unfortunately our nation has forgotten this fact.
The cost of running our government could be MUCH LOWER but between contrived, tax structures that RELIEVE the Rich from the "burden" of governing with their OWN money and shifting the cost onto the middle class through countless "hidden" taxes; this nation has begun to go down the SAME road All the other FORMER empires have traveled - an irresponsible elite blind to the needs and suffering of those they govern and illiterate about economic BALANCE.

[jim3215]

Okay, all of you FAIR tax supporters... just remember when you buy a $400,000 NEW home, the tax will be a mere $120,000. How the housing market would adjust to the 30% difference, I do not really know... but I am sure there are many opinions. Each $50,000 new car you purchase during your lifetime... yep, a mere $15,000 each. Even more scary, when you think about financing the tax. OUCH! Of course, FAIRTAX tells you that your mortgage rate would be 25% lower under the plan. You do believe your mortgage lender will lower your rate by 25% because they pay less tax...right?? FAIRTAX also assumes you have the 30% to pay for the tax in you bank account...and did not finance it. Keep in mind, it will cost you an extra 30% on about all of your purchases. Now look at your tax returns and see how long it will take you to break even. Feel free to browse around fairtax.org for yourself! Now don''t be surprised if you wake up one day to find out that there was not enough "FAIR tax" to pay for your Social Security and Medicare when you retire. Of course, if you are single and your taxable income is $2,000,000 every year, you will save about $680,000 on your Federal tax bill. Let''s see, you would have to spend nearly $2,300,000 to pay that much FAIR tax. For most of us, there may be another four letter word to better describe the "FAIR tax".

[homespunlady]

Posted by Prinzowhales at 09:45 AM : Dec 15, 2007


BTW, the study I''ve referred to on economic tipping points based on asset percentage distribution I found around a decade ago during my MBA studies.
It was a slight "diversion" from Elliot Wave but I''ve forgotten the author.
The best I can remember beyond the finding is that he had a name that made me wonder if he was from India.

[homespunlady]

Posted by Prinzowhales at 09:45 AM : Dec 15, 2007

No, I watch them and did very well playing the stock market in the early 80''s as it began to take off.

Made OTHER people a lot of money but allowed my personal life (the no.1 No-NO) to override what I knew would happen.

Military career and family concerns ruled my finances.

Now, after retiring, several degrees and time to research my favorite subject - Economics; I''ve settled for financial peace and living well but not wealthy.

I''ll leave that to those more willing to take on the risk.

In this day of computers a sales tax is the "easy" way to RAISE taxes. GAS is taxed in most states WELL OVER 23 percent. That said it also is a seriously FLAWED and potentially terribly regressive tax if done wrong.

The wealthy can only buy so much milk and bread and I am AGAINST taxing the ESSENTIALS of living - food and BASIC shelter although they ARE already taxed NOW.

I am for REMOVING tax LOOPHOLES aimed at making the economic BALANCE OF ASSETS even more skewed toward a shrinking minority at the top. THAT is one of the MOST DANGEROUS economic manipulations this nation has taken.

The poor don''t use them and the rich abuse them.

Warren Buffet seems to understand that and I admire his attitude concerning it. Not sure though whether his form of "redistribution of assets" by giving his wealth to the Gates Foundation makes sense.

[hungry1968]

This is one of the dumbest ideas I''ve ever heard!!!

I live near Buffalo, 10 minutes from Canada - I can shop there and essentially pay no taxes to the United States. And for a while a few years back, the exchange rate was $1.00 US was equal to $1.60 Canadian making the package even sweeter, (though the exchange rate isn''t that good now, it will probably rebound as it always has). I can bring back up to $600 worth of merchandise every 48 hours without having to declare it for tax purposes.

Mr. Huckabee - how do you propose to collect the billions, (trillions?), of lost dollars to the economies of country''s close to America?

This is just a typical, short sighted, narrow minded, Republican idea, thought up on the spur of the moment without giving and consideration to the consequences.

[latazman]

One thing the plan does not take into BIG consideration is local and State taxes it seems. Here in LA some places already have 9% sale taxes! Would that make it over 30% taxes to buy something?

[cyberus-2009]

If the "sales tax" applies to the sale of commodity contracts (futures included), stocks, bonds, and other "investment vehicles" I could get behind it.
Otherwise its another tax that will be paid (percentage of income wise) mostly by the poor to middle class.

[prinzowhales]

homespunlady--Your post with regard to the Elliot Wave was very interesting...I think I''ll look into it...do you play the commodities markets?

[sleepyric]

oh yeah,,,that''s gonna be good for the economy,,,I won''t buy a *** thing if I have to pay 23% of it''s price in taxes!...Is there anyone running who is NOT and idiot? Please raise your hand.

[jsilver2th]

i bet this makes bill & hillary chuckle

[harp1963]

Why increase the taxes on people who have millions and billions in the bank when you can soak what''s left of the American middle class some more.

Dear Mr. Hickabee,

Could you please ask the billionaires running the oil industry today if they could get gas up to $ 4.00 a gallon, ah heck, just tell''em to take it to $5.00 a gallon. We know they need more cash to pay their personal b u t t wipers.

A hundred years from now, these greed mongers will wish they had been homeless in this lifetime.

[sharncedar]

Hmmm .. what a great election, choose the perverted sleaze from New York, or the other perverted sleaze Senator from New Your, or the scumback lying filth from Arkansas, or the other scumbag lying filth from Arkansas. Their positions are the same - raise taxes on us to pay for big subsidies and giveaways to the "rich" ie the thieves who are plundering us.

Great election, what a choice, Scumabee the phony from Arkansas, or Shillery the phony liar from Arkansas. Who shall we vote for? The liar or the thief or the liar or the crrok or the sick freak? Let''s see, should we vote for the traitor who hates americans and says she doesn''t, or the traitor who hates freedom and says he wants to kill for freedom? Hmmm .. what a choice, I don''t know what to do. the liar from Arkansas, or the liar from Arkansas, who shall I vote for.

[jaykay3141]

There''s already plenty of experience with national sales taxes. Politicians in Europe LOVE them because they are incredibly easy to manipulate, plus they''re difficult for consumers to break out as a separate part of what they pay for things - the tax is buried everywhere along the line from factory or farm to the retail store. And yes, they DO hit hardest at those least able to pay, while barely tickling the wealthy. But I guess I shouldn''t be surprised to hear this from a Republican. It''s just the culmination of what the Bushies have been trying to do over the last 7 years - protecting the wealthy with huge tax cuts at the top end of the economic spectrum while the rest of us get a few extra pennies in our weekly checks.

Nice work, GOP. At this point even Hilary is starting to look like an attractive candidate.

[brianbwb-2009]

The poor don''''t pay tax unless you''''re counting lottery tickets and cigarettes.
Posted by downtowner97

And food, clothing, medicine, transportation, water, utilities, and a myriad of other things which are needed to survive. The "working poor", those who are employed, but make far less than the median standard, also have taxes deducted from their checks.

[brianbwb-2009]

So "the Hound" would hang the US government''s ability to provide essential services on a diminishing middle class, whose employment is leaving for slave labor states, and whose purchasing power has steadily been in decline since the 70s, with no change of direction in sight?

More Reaganesque "voodoo economics".

Well America, it was nice knowing you, you will be missed...

[lizardbate]

For the person who said there will be no republican elected to president next election----- At one time I would agree with you, BUT--- Considering what the democratic congress has accomplished since gaining the majority, other than accomplishing the important things - re-naming a library - I think the next election could be very interesting. If everything thing goes absolutley perfect, The whole *** establishment will get voted out, democrat and republican.

[downtowner97]

The poor don''t pay tax unless you''re counting lottery tickets and cigarettes.