Patriot Act Loses Appeal

(AP)  A federal appeals court ruled that some portions of the U.S. Patriot Act that govern dealings with foreign terrorist organizations are unconstitutional because the language is too vague to be understood by an ordinary person.

The ruling released Monday by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco affirms a 2005 decision by a lower court judge.

That judge, Audrey Collins, ruled on a petition seeking to clear the way for U.S. groups and individuals to assist organizations in Turkey and Sri Lanka with training on applying for disaster relief or conducting peace negotiations.

Collins said language in the Patriot Act was vague on matters involving training, expert advice or assistance, personnel and service to foreign terrorist organizations.

Without clear language, the plaintiffs argued, those who provide assistance to those organizations could be subject to U.S. prison terms of up to 15 years.

Charles Miller, a U.S. Justice Department spokesman, said his agency was reviewing Monday's ruling to determine a response.

Collins' ruling prevented the federal government from enforcing the vague Patriot Act provisions as they apply to the terrorist groups named in the lawsuit.

In its 27-page decision, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals held that to survive a vagueness challenge, a statute "must be sufficiently clear to put a person of ordinary intelligence on notice that his or her contemplated conduct is unlawful."

The language covered by the ruling remained unconstitutionally vague despite Congressional amendments to the Patriot Act meant to remedy the problems, the appeals court ruled.

[gunownerdan]

"Today we need a nation of minute men; citizens who are not only prepared to take up arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as a basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom. The cause of liberty, the cause of American, cannot succeed with any lesser effort."
-- President John F. Kennedy, January 29, 1961

[omega39-2009]

One comment said "Democrats have 2008 in the bag" -- as a lifelong Democrat, I am not so sure. We won Congress b/c of how things were going in Iraq. But since we took power, our Congress has gotten little if anything done. We are still in the war, and despite our efforts to surrender in Iraq, the Republicans have turned the war around and now the USA is winning -- THIS IS BAD FOR US AS DEMOCRATS BECAUSE NOW THE REPUBLICANS WILL GET CREDIT FOR WINNING THE WAR AND WE WILL BE SEEN AS WEAK IN THE WAR ON TERROR. I am afraid we have convinced the American people to vote Republican even though many people dont like Bush.

Posted by bobmarisol

Well gee Bob, for a "lifelong Democrat" you sure squeal like a Republican pig.

[bobmarisol]

One comment said "Democrats have 2008 in the bag" -- as a lifelong Democrat, I am not so sure. We won Congress b/c of how things were going in Iraq. But since we took power, our Congress has gotten little if anything done. We are still in the war, and despite our efforts to surrender in Iraq, the Republicans have turned the war around and now the USA is winning -- THIS IS BAD FOR US AS DEMOCRATS BECAUSE NOW THE REPUBLICANS WILL GET CREDIT FOR WINNING THE WAR AND WE WILL BE SEEN AS WEAK IN THE WAR ON TERROR. I am afraid we have convinced the American people to vote Republican even though many people dont like Bush.

[b-easy63]

None that I have heard of.
Posted by homjett at 11:02 PM : Dec 11, 2007


You must be on drugs--thousands of Americans have had their trips cancelled due to being on no flight list for being quakers, peace activists etc. That is a life disruption.

At least 3 Americans have been held, renditioned and detained FOR YEARS without benefit of council or able to see their families. Some claim to have been tortured. Padilla is one of those. WE were told the act would not harm or apply to American citizens because they had the right to due process. Not any more, Bush received the right to treat any American caught in the snares like any other enemy combatant.

The man in Florida who was treated that way was later acquitted. NIce. Doesn''t change the fact he claims he was tortured or the 2 years he was not in his family''s life.

Of course this affects ordinary Americans. You just have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time or talking to the wrong person, or sending money to the wrong charity or sitting beside a suspect, or blogging and saying the wrong things or taking a flier at a rally and get it caught on tape....on and on and on. Stop being an idiot--your mentality is why gas is over 3.00/gal, the dollar has tanked, and our grandkids will not only be paying for this war, they will euthanize you and every other old boomer''s azz to keep from being burdened with giving you social security and taking 90% of their checks....

[b-easy63]

This is a hoot!! Even if the language is clarified, those who were caught when the language was vague could not be charged and should not be held. Because they could argue that they did not know what they did was against the law then, no matter how clear the law is now. Ex post facto (after the fact--trying to perform mental calisthenics with terrorism is not a good thing--either we really want to catch the bad guys to validate the war on terrorism or we just want to catch anyone and pretend they are the primary targets of the war on terrorism...)

[watcher269-2009]

I dread to think what will happen when the Libs repeal it.

Posted by homjett at 11:02 PM : Dec 11, 2007

------

That''s right! We''ll be a FREE country again! A Free America, for the time being. Repubilcans have always meant War and Debt while Democrats favor the opposite. Wow - Where do you stand?

Then we need to rid our selves of the Christian Commies we have trying to take over America.

[sgtrds]

I dread to think what will happen when the Libs repeal it.

Posted by homjett at 11:02 PM : Dec 11, 2007

Why in the world would you dread a return to our government being run by our Constitution and laws?

[homjett]

Since there has to be a review every six months, so there is no misuse of the patriot act, how many folks have had their rights abused to date. None that I have heard of. Actually, if a poll was taken, my guess very few no anything about the Act, nor been affected by it. I dread to think what will happen when the Libs repeal it.

[p-syrus]

First Order of Business for a Newly Elected Democratic House, Senate & President: DUMP ALL PROVISIONS OF THE "PATRIOT" ACT.

That was a gross intrusion into the rights of free american citizens and should never have been contemplated much less enacted. It was proposed & intended as a gift to unscrupulous prosecutors.

[bozworth4]

You know I believe the Constitution is unconstitutionally vague to our elected public servants. Remember they are public servants, not public leaders, kings etc: except fpr King George the second.