Patriot Act Loses Appeal

U.S. Appeals Court Upholds Ruling That Portions Of Act Are Unconstitutionally Vague

(AP)  A federal appeals court ruled that some portions of the U.S. Patriot Act that govern dealings with foreign terrorist organizations are unconstitutional because the language is too vague to be understood by an ordinary person.

The ruling released Monday by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco affirms a 2005 decision by a lower court judge.

That judge, Audrey Collins, ruled on a petition seeking to clear the way for U.S. groups and individuals to assist organizations in Turkey and Sri Lanka with training on applying for disaster relief or conducting peace negotiations.

Collins said language in the Patriot Act was vague on matters involving training, expert advice or assistance, personnel and service to foreign terrorist organizations.

Without clear language, the plaintiffs argued, those who provide assistance to those organizations could be subject to U.S. prison terms of up to 15 years.

Charles Miller, a U.S. Justice Department spokesman, said his agency was reviewing Monday's ruling to determine a response.

Collins' ruling prevented the federal government from enforcing the vague Patriot Act provisions as they apply to the terrorist groups named in the lawsuit.

In its 27-page decision, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals held that to survive a vagueness challenge, a statute "must be sufficiently clear to put a person of ordinary intelligence on notice that his or her contemplated conduct is unlawful."

The language covered by the ruling remained unconstitutionally vague despite Congressional amendments to the Patriot Act meant to remedy the problems, the appeals court ruled.

[gunownerdan]

"Today we need a nation of minute men; citizens who are not only prepared to take up arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as a basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom. The cause of liberty, the cause of American, cannot succeed with any lesser effort."
-- President John F. Kennedy, January 29, 1961

[omega39-2009]

One comment said "Democrats have 2008 in the bag" -- as a lifelong Democrat, I am not so sure. We won Congress b/c of how things were going in Iraq. But since we took power, our Congress has gotten little if anything done. We are still in the war, and despite our efforts to surrender in Iraq, the Republicans have turned the war around and now the USA is winning -- THIS IS BAD FOR US AS DEMOCRATS BECAUSE NOW THE REPUBLICANS WILL GET CREDIT FOR WINNING THE WAR AND WE WILL BE SEEN AS WEAK IN THE WAR ON TERROR. I am afraid we have convinced the American people to vote Republican even though many people dont like Bush.

Posted by bobmarisol

Well gee Bob, for a "lifelong Democrat" you sure squeal like a Republican pig.

[bobmarisol]

One comment said "Democrats have 2008 in the bag" -- as a lifelong Democrat, I am not so sure. We won Congress b/c of how things were going in Iraq. But since we took power, our Congress has gotten little if anything done. We are still in the war, and despite our efforts to surrender in Iraq, the Republicans have turned the war around and now the USA is winning -- THIS IS BAD FOR US AS DEMOCRATS BECAUSE NOW THE REPUBLICANS WILL GET CREDIT FOR WINNING THE WAR AND WE WILL BE SEEN AS WEAK IN THE WAR ON TERROR. I am afraid we have convinced the American people to vote Republican even though many people dont like Bush.

[b-easy63]

None that I have heard of.
Posted by homjett at 11:02 PM : Dec 11, 2007


You must be on drugs--thousands of Americans have had their trips cancelled due to being on no flight list for being quakers, peace activists etc. That is a life disruption.

At least 3 Americans have been held, renditioned and detained FOR YEARS without benefit of council or able to see their families. Some claim to have been tortured. Padilla is one of those. WE were told the act would not harm or apply to American citizens because they had the right to due process. Not any more, Bush received the right to treat any American caught in the snares like any other enemy combatant.

The man in Florida who was treated that way was later acquitted. NIce. Doesn''t change the fact he claims he was tortured or the 2 years he was not in his family''s life.

Of course this affects ordinary Americans. You just have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time or talking to the wrong person, or sending money to the wrong charity or sitting beside a suspect, or blogging and saying the wrong things or taking a flier at a rally and get it caught on tape....on and on and on. Stop being an idiot--your mentality is why gas is over 3.00/gal, the dollar has tanked, and our grandkids will not only be paying for this war, they will euthanize you and every other old boomer''s azz to keep from being burdened with giving you social security and taking 90% of their checks....

[b-easy63]

This is a hoot!! Even if the language is clarified, those who were caught when the language was vague could not be charged and should not be held. Because they could argue that they did not know what they did was against the law then, no matter how clear the law is now. Ex post facto (after the fact--trying to perform mental calisthenics with terrorism is not a good thing--either we really want to catch the bad guys to validate the war on terrorism or we just want to catch anyone and pretend they are the primary targets of the war on terrorism...)

[watcher269-2009]

I dread to think what will happen when the Libs repeal it.

Posted by homjett at 11:02 PM : Dec 11, 2007

------

That''s right! We''ll be a FREE country again! A Free America, for the time being. Repubilcans have always meant War and Debt while Democrats favor the opposite. Wow - Where do you stand?

Then we need to rid our selves of the Christian Commies we have trying to take over America.

[sgtrds]

I dread to think what will happen when the Libs repeal it.

Posted by homjett at 11:02 PM : Dec 11, 2007

Why in the world would you dread a return to our government being run by our Constitution and laws?

[homjett]

Since there has to be a review every six months, so there is no misuse of the patriot act, how many folks have had their rights abused to date. None that I have heard of. Actually, if a poll was taken, my guess very few no anything about the Act, nor been affected by it. I dread to think what will happen when the Libs repeal it.

[p-syrus]

First Order of Business for a Newly Elected Democratic House, Senate & President: DUMP ALL PROVISIONS OF THE "PATRIOT" ACT.

That was a gross intrusion into the rights of free american citizens and should never have been contemplated much less enacted. It was proposed & intended as a gift to unscrupulous prosecutors.

[bozworth4]

You know I believe the Constitution is unconstitutionally vague to our elected public servants. Remember they are public servants, not public leaders, kings etc: except fpr King George the second.

[Krazcarl]

Vague that explains the man that came up with it...

[kansas1946]

Patriot Act Loses Appeal
****************************

Heck, it never appealed to me! In fact, I think it is a classic example of an oxymoron. It is the antithesis of patriotism.

[forthepeopl1]

to aye1spy- the only anwser to your question is this.

we the people of the united states of america, do here-buy state the follow.

congress your fired,do not pass go, just go to jail.
same go''s to all in whitehouse.

and as it states in our constituion we the people will start over with a new governemnt for the people and by the people.

[infidel_us]

So, according to the Washington Post, Pelosi and other libs were briefed on waterboarding, European CIA detention centes, etc., back in 2002. And they said NOTHING.

Now they''re complaining!? What utter hypocrisy!!!!! Those members of congress need to be INVESTIGATED!!!!!

[bareemperor]

In today''s world, what we need is an awareness of terrorism and terrorists. The Patriot Act was written by totalitarian extremists - the ''other terrorists'' - who are offended by the existing Constitution and those who defend it... We don''t need to abolish our own rights to be aware of those who wish to dissolve them.

[macusweil]

The traitorous "patriot" act is an assault on our freedom & liberties and should be scrapped in it entirety. Repeal the law and start over looking a what if anything we really need and do it without stomp our hard fought civil liberties, right to privacy etc.

It was a knee jerk reaction by a bunch of preoccupied congressional hacks and under extreme pressure from the loonies over at the White House.

[aye1spy]

More global ignorance:

If you listen to the Reagan quote below or to Bush or even to Hillary, you hear that it is the duty of the government or of the president him(her)self, to "Protect the United States" or to "Protect the people of the United States." Hogwash.

Here is the presidential oath of office"

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."

What is supposed to be protected? Lands? People? Power? Influence? NO! "...THE CONSTITUTION of the United States!"

Here is your homework, class: Write a 500-word essay on how an elected official can protect THE CONSTITUION. Guns and war scenarios need not be submitted. Such will receive an automatic "F" for intellectual laziness.

[gce651]

Dan:
Someone else wrote all those great little one-liners for Reagan. Reagan ran up the national debt by massive military spending that we''re still paying for today, 20 yrs later. Reagan also died senile and not knowing his dork from a pickle,a fitting end to the Republican uber-lord.

[sgtrds]

"Patriot Act Loses Appeal"

It never appealed to me, or any other real American, in the first place. It is without a doubt the most unconstitutional grab for power in American history. It legalizes dictatorship and Bush is grabbing for all of the power he can under it. Hell it''s the only law he even pretends to obey!

[carlad1958]

Thank you gunownerdan. Your quotes, attributed to Reagan and Thomas Paine, are basic truths that people seem to have forgotten.