Episcopal Diocese Secedes Over Gays' Role

California Group Is First To Leave National Church In Conservative-Liberal Split

(AP)  An Episcopal diocese in central California voted Saturday to split with the national denomination over disagreements about the role of gays and lesbians in the church.

Clergy and lay members of the Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin voted 173-22 at their annual convention to remove all references to the national church from the diocese's constitution, according to spokeswoman Joan Gladstone.

The Fresno-based congregation is the first full diocese to secede because of a conservative-liberal rift that began decades ago and is now focused on whether the Bible condemns gay relationships.

The diocese, in a later vote, accepted an invitation to join a conservative South American congregation of the Worldwide Anglican Communion. The Episcopal Church is the U.S. member of the global Anglican Communion.

The decision is almost certain to spark a court fight over control of the diocese's multimillion-dollar real estate holdings and other assets.

The head of the U.S. denomination had warned Bishop John-David Schofield of the Fresno-based diocese against secession.

"I do not intend to threaten you, only to urge you to reconsider and draw back from this trajectory," Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, head of the U.S. denomination, wrote in a letter to Schofield earlier this week.

Schofield responded that the Episcopal Church "has isolated itself from the overwhelming majority of Christendom and more specifically from the Anglican Communion by denying Biblical truth and walking apart from the historic Faith and Order."

The Fresno diocese has explored breaking ties with the American church since 2003, when Episcopalians consecrated the church's first openly gay bishop, V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire. The resulting uproar throughout the world Anglican fellowship has moved the 77-million-member communion toward the brink of schism.

San Joaquin is one of three Episcopal dioceses that will not ordain women. Last year the Episcopal Church elected Jefferts Schori as its first woman primate.

Christian advocates for accepting gay relationships, including Jefferts Schori, say they are guided by biblical teachings on social justice and tolerance. But Schofield and other conservatives believe Scripture bars same-sex relationships.

The diocese's holdings include 48 church buildings, including its Fresno headquarters, a series of mission-style buildings surrounded by olive, Chinese elm and cherry trees. Its total assets are worth millions, said the Rev. Van McCalister, a diocesan spokesman.

About 55 conservative Episcopal parishes have split from the church in the last few years and some have affiliated directly with Anglican provinces overseas, according to national church statistics. But the courts have mostly ruled against them.

San Joaquin is one of four full dioceses out of 110 in the nation - along with Fort Worth, Texas; Quincy, Ill., and Pittsburgh - that has taken steps toward breaking with the U.S. church.

[luvcomments]

userverify

I was surprised to read your comment about what RC''s in Britain are probably taught. I am a Protestant, not an RC, and was born and raised in England and we were taught in public school that King Henry left the RC church because he wanted a divorce, and he became head of the new church.

[michellem99-2009]

MCC Famiy of Christ site. It was stared by same gender people. I do not go there. If I went to church it be Mass.

[wheezel3]

Money money money, always money and *** with these religinoids.

[caldwellptr]

I must say that I am curious as to how all of the churches breaking away from the Episcopal Church will treat the other sinners in their midst. Only God knows what is in your heart, and only God will sit in judgement, regardless of anything said here in these comments or by Churches breaking away or uniting.

[robaldrich]

Someone said: ''These dioceses have clearly forgotten that Christ accepted and blessed everyone.''

So that''s what Christ was doing when he was whipping the money changers in the temple. That''s must also be what He will do when He, being one with the Father, sends the vast majority of people into the Lake of Fire for eternity.

Not religion, just what the Bible (in all translations) unarguably says. It seems that you have not read it.

It''s like the concept "God loves the sinner, but hates the sin." While hyper-technically true because God loves everyone, His love has been fully expressed in Christ''s death and resurrection. It''s 2007, find an online Bible and search on %u2018hate%u2019 and read all the passages that say God hates people (e.g. ''a lying TONGUE,'' ''HANDS that shed innocent blood,'' ''an HEART the deviseth wicked imagination,'' FEET that be swift in running to mischief,'' ''a false WITNESS,'' ''all WORKERS of iniquity,'' ''the ONE who loves violence'') . Or check the verses on how God will treat those who reject Him (e.g. ''I [God] also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; Then they shall call upon me, but I will not answer; they seek me early, but they shall not find me.''

Continued below.

[robaldrich]

Continued from above.

As far as loving others, the Bible defines that love as follows: ''And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. And THIS IS LOVE, that we walk after His commandments." So, God%u2019s love is not an emotional thing, but doing what God says to do in your relations to others.

What does God say the Episcopals%u2019 duty is: ''He that is spiritual judgeth ALL things'' ''Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.'' ''[T]hose who keep the law, STRIVE with [the wicked].'' Homosexuality is an "abomination" to God.

So it seems the Episcopals discussed in the news story are doing just what the Bible commands, and if anyone has ''forgotten'' anything, it''s the mainline Episcopal church.

[robaldrich]

Someone said, ''Hey people, this is not a case about whether homosexuality should be tolerated in the church. It is a case about the 1st Amendment, the right to practice one''''s religion, but more importantly it is about the 1st Amendment right to free association.''

WHAT? WRONG! The First Amendment bars GOVERNMENT action: ''Congress shall make no law.'' A necessary element of a First Amendment suit is "government action."

The church is not the government, so the First Amendment is irrelevant to its actions, except as an additional hurdle against government intrusion.

If I don''t like what you say and knock you out, I haven''t violated your "freedom of speech." I''m not the government, either. You can file a tort claim, or have me arrested, for battery; however, you can''t sue me or have me arrested for violating your First Amendment rights.

[tmn]

There''s nothing like an old-fashioned schism to keep life interesting. At least the "good" people of San Joaquin have come forward and shown their true bigotry (indeed, hate) and total lack of Christian love and understanding.

Let ''em split, take from this group and give the Episcopal Church all the assets that rightfully belong to them, and let this rogue group of losers start from scratch. They can call themselves whatever they desire, but should avoid the label Christian.

[one4gipper]

Hey people, this is not a case about whether homosexuality should be tolerated in the church. It is a case about the 1st Amendment, the right to practice one''s religion, but more importantly it is about the 1st Amendment right to free association.

There are those who believe that clergy may be gay, and those who do not. It is right that each group be able to practice its right to choose with whom to associate. Thus, it is right that those opposed to gay clergy have to power to leave the Episcopal church and form whatever group they wish.

Let''s all stop condemning and let both groups go their separate ways in peace.

[brianbwb-2009]

Sorry about the double posts

A belief is just that, a belief. To say that a belief, whatever it is, is the right or wrong way is the height of arrogance.

There are those who don''t like broccoli. Don''t eat it. I like broccoli, I will eat it whether you like it or not.

I am not g*a*y. There are those who are. Fine by me, just understand that I will not become one, and I won''t expect you to become straight. The world will still go round, and not miss a beat for our views.

There are far more important things that religious organizations should be dealing with, but the fact that they waste time and money on this suggests that they consider their rituals and trappings more important than the substance, they place themselves above their "God" in presuming to pass judgment on their fellow man.

[brianbwb-2009]

"Perhaps the next step for San Joaquin will be reconciliation with the Church of Rome. I know the Pope would undoubtedly receive them with open arms."
Posted by clgl_fubar

Then the fight over church assets could escalate into a war between Catholics and Anglicans, probably make the Shia-Sunni struggle seem like a minor domestic dispute.

Then Bush declares martial law, suspends the constitution, and declares war against the "terrorists", set up special detainment camps where Catholic priests can torture Anglican children, and others for the reverse, then demand billions from both sides to back their positions, with Blackwater guards passing the plate...

Won''t it be fun?

[brianbwb-2009]

"Perhaps the next step for San Joaquin will be reconciliation with the Church of Rome. I know the Pope would undoubtedly receive them with open arms."
Posted by clgl_fubar

Then the fight over church assets could escalate into a war between Catholics and Anglicans, probably make the Shia-Sunni struggle seem like a minor domestic dispute.

Then Bush declares martial law, suspends the constitution, and declares war against the "terrorists", set up special detainment camps where Catholic priests can torture Anglican children, and others for the reverse, then demand billions from both sides to back their positions, with Blackwater guards passing the plate...

Won''t it be fun?

[missingamerica]

This is what happens when liberals get hold of pretty much anything... it ends up a stinking rotten pile of garbage that eventually dies... sometime of aids

Posted by dogsoul at 12:27 AM : Dec 09, 2007

I was amused by the comment I quote above - it appears to be about some evil sect called "liberals" who do horrid things to religion.

Ironically, the signature is "dogsoul". In Thailand, those who are evil in life are thought to be reincarnated as dogs - at least up around the Laotian border, anyway.

I guess it just goes to show you that religions have great differences on this world...the question, of curse, is why would anybody dare to presume they have chosen the only correct one?

More to the point, why do so many gamble that whatever form of judgement awaits their arrival into the next world will look kindly upon their attempts to forcibly foist their belief systems upon others?

[dogsoul]

"These dioceses have clearly forgotten that Christ accepted and blessed everyone. The bigotry of these individuals is truly sad.

"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Jesus (Matthew 22:39)."

That doesn''t mean Jesus said you should accept everything anyone does - hate the sin, love the sinner....

This is what happens when liberals get hold of pretty much anything... it ends up a stinking rotten pile of garbage that eventually dies... sometime of aids

[l8c6]

Rock the boat I say. The "conservative" movement was spoiled and foiled by vile opportunists if it had anything legitimate to profess.

[lawyertom1]

These dioceses have clearly forgotten that Christ accepted and blessed everyone. The bigotry of these individuals is truly sad.

"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Jesus (Matthew 22:39).

As noted in the Chinese proverb: Deal with the faults of others as gently as with your own.

[suzsteil]

To say that the dissension in the Episcopal Church or the secession of the California Diocese is over gay rights is to hugely over-simplify the problem. The main differences revolve around the tenets of the church: the Creed, the Trinity, the most fundamental of beliefs. It''s too bad that the media is choosing to focus only on the gay issue.

[suzsteil]

To say that the dissension in the Episcopal Church or the secession of the California Diocese is over gay rights to to hugely over-simplify the problem. The main differences revolve around the tenets of the church: the Creed, the Trinity, the move fundamental of beliefs. It''s too bad that the media is choosing to focus only on the gay issue.

[feelfree1]

I had a feeling that ''userverify'', ''libsluvsuvs'', ''jdweymouth'', and other deeply repressed homosexuals would have a lot to say about this topic.

This news must hit a little too close to home.

[jdweymouth]

He that lieth with mankind as a women shall surely be put to death. How clear does that have to be. That is from the Old Testament. And Jesus preached against *** outside of marriage, an institution which he said was between men and women (Matthew 19). And of course we have what Paul said in Romans 1. Some of you who made your statements about what the Bible says about Homosexuality (and by the way Lesbianism is Homosexuality-**** there is "same" like Homogenize you idiots). You may say this is archaic, right wing homophobic etc. Fair enough. But the issue is the Orthodox and traditional teaching about sexuality is that marriage is between man and woman and homosexuality is aberrant. This is what the Anglican Communion always believed. Start your own church with the confession and creed that states acceptance of homosexuality and build your own multi-million dollar infrastructure based on your beliefs. Do not try to steal one that was established on beliefs contrary to yours. Why do these people need to infiltrate and try to change from within. It is like heterosexuals joining GLAAD (Gay and Lesbian etc) and trying to make it a Christian Fundamentalist organization.