OMAHA, Neb., Dec. 6, 2007

Omaha Mall Massacre

Police Say 20-Year-Old Gunman Killed 8 People, Wounded 5 Others, Before Killing Himself

    • At left: a yearbook photo of the alleged gunman, Robert Hawkins; at right: shoppers and employees evacuating the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Dec. 5, 2007. Photo

      At left: a yearbook photo of the alleged gunman, Robert Hawkins; at right: shoppers and employees evacuating the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Dec. 5, 2007.  (Papillion-La Vista High School/AP)

    • Crime lab technicians at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Dec. 5, 2007, hours after a gunman opened fire at the Von Maur department store, killing 8 people and wounding 5 others before allegedly killing himself. Photo

      Crime lab technicians at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Dec. 5, 2007, hours after a gunman opened fire at the Von Maur department store, killing 8 people and wounding 5 others before allegedly killing himself.  (AP Photo/Dave Weaver)

    • A victim is wheeled out of the Westroads Mall after a gunman opened fire at a Von Maur store in the mall and killed nine people, including himself, in Omaha, Neb., Wednesday, Dec. 5, 2007. Photo

      A victim is wheeled out of the Westroads Mall after a gunman opened fire at a Von Maur store in the mall and killed nine people, including himself, in Omaha, Neb., Wednesday, Dec. 5, 2007.  (AP)

    • Larissa Starchenko, an employee who was inside the Von Maur store when a gunman opened fire, is comforted by her daughter Yara, back, in Omaha, Neb., Wednesday, Dec. 5, 2007. Police locked down the Westroads mall in Omaha after nine people were shot dead Wednesday afternoon. Photo

      Larissa Starchenko, an employee who was inside the Von Maur store when a gunman opened fire, is comforted by her daughter Yara, back, in Omaha, Neb., Wednesday, Dec. 5, 2007. Police locked down the Westroads mall in Omaha after nine people were shot dead Wednesday afternoon.  (AP)

    • Nine people were shot dead Wednesday, Dec. 5, 2007 at a busy mall in Omaha, Nebraska. Photo

      Nine people were shot dead Wednesday, Dec. 5, 2007 at a busy mall in Omaha, Nebraska.  (CBS)

    Previous slide Next slide
  • Play CBS Video Video Mall Massacre In Omaha

    A gunman opened fire on holiday shoppers, killing eight and wounding 5 others before turning the gun on himself. Michelle Bandur of CBS affiliate KMTV reports

  • Video Gunfire In Omaha Mall

    "CBS News RAW": Mary Braunger describes how she took cover behind a cosmetic counter when shots broke out in an Omaha shopping mall.

  • Video Omaha Shooter's Car Searched

    "CBS News RAW": Police break into the car believed to have been owned by a gunman who killed himself and 8 others in a Nebraska mall, searching for a bomb and any additional harmful devices.

  • Photo Essay Omaha Mall Shooting

    Man, 19, goes on shooting rampage in shopping mall, kills 8, then himself.

  • Photos Shooting Sprees

    Images from some of the more notable cases in recent years.

  • Interactive Guns In America

    State-by-state gun laws and death rates, maps of recent school and workplace shootings and facts on who's at risk.

(CBS/AP)  A man opened fire in a busy Omaha, Neb., department store Wednesday, killing eight people and wounding five others before allegedly killing himself in an attack that sent holiday shoppers screaming through a mall as others barricaded themselves in dressing rooms.

Witnesses said the gunman fired down on shoppers from a third floor balcony of the Von Maur store. Police recovered an SKS assault rifle believed to have been used by the gunman.

The young shooter, identified by police as 20-year-old Robert A. Hawkins of Bellevue, Neb., left a suicide note which included the grim prediction: "Now I'll be famous."

Police have not said anything about the motive, if it is in fact known to them. But Hawkins had suffered a string of setbacks over the past year. A family friend says he recently broke up with a girlfriend and got fired, and a source tells CBS News affiliate KMTV that he tried, but failed, to get into the Army.

According to Sgt. Teresa Negron, police received a 911 call from someone inside the mall, and shots could be heard in the background. She says by the time officers arrived - six minutes later - the shooting was over.

"We sent every available officer in the city of Omaha," said Negron, who did not know whether the gunman said anything during the rampage to hint at a motive.

The Omaha World-Herald reported that the gunman had a military-style haircut and a black backpack, and wore a camouflage vest.

"My knees rocked. I didn't know what to do, so I just ran with everybody else," said Kevin Kleine, 29, who was shopping with her 4-year-old daughter at the Westroads Mall, in a prosperous neighborhood on the city's west side. She said she hid in a dressing room with four other shoppers and an employee.

Authorities say Hawkins was found dead on the third floor with an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound, and his victims were discovered on the second and third floors.

Hawkins dropped out of Papillion-La Vista High School in Papillion, Neb., in the spring of 2006 and was kicked out by his family that same year.

After staying at the homes of a number of friends for a few days at a time, he wound up moving in with the family of surgical nurse Debora Maruca-Kovac, who with her husband, took in Hawkins, a friend of her two teenaged sons.

"When he first came in the house, he was introverted, a troubled young man who was like a lost pound puppy that nobody wanted," Maruca-Kovac said.

Hawkins, according to Maruca-Kovac, was not on any medication for mental illness, but he had been treated in the past for depression and attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder.

"He was depressed, and he had always been depressed," Maruca-Kovac said. "But he looked like he was getting better."

"He was a very helpful young man, but he was quiet," Maruca-Kovac said. "He didn't cause a lot of trouble. He tried to help out all the time. He was very thankful for everything. He wasn't a violent person at all."

Hawkins, she said, was gentle and loved animals, liked music and video games, but had a drinking problem and would occasionally smoke marijuana in his bedroom.

Maruca-Kovac says Hawkins recently suffered two new setbacks, breaking up two weeks ago with his longtime girlfriend, and earlier this week, getting fired from his job at a nearby McDonald's.

At 1 p.m. Wednesday, he called Maruca-Kovac, telling her that he'd left a note for her in his bedroom. She says she tried to get him to explain, but he hung up.

Maruca-Kovac then called Hawkins' mother, who went to the Maruca-Kovacs' house and retrieved the note, which she took to authorities.

In the note, Hawkins wrote that he loved his parents and other family members, was "sorry for everything," would no longer be a burden to them, wanted his mom to have his Jeep, and his friends to have "whatever they want."

Maruca-Kovac did not hear about the shooting - which a witness said began around 1:50 p.m. - until she arrived at work at Nebraska Medical Center, where she saw patients being wheeled in.

"I had a feeling it could be him," said Maruca-Kovac, who had read the note before turning it over to his mother.

Continued



© MMVII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Video and Galleries from U.S.

Add a Comment See all 626 Comments
by excoachken December 5, 2007 4:01 PM PST
Chalk up a few more victims for the NRA. When will we take a rational look at the crazy overarming of America?
Reply to this comment
by averjane December 5, 2007 4:02 PM PST
Hey, I know, it''s Bush''s fault! I knew he had something to do with it. He should be blamed for every thing....right Bushwhackers?
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 4:02 PM PST
Why does CBS report every shooting like this, and ignore all the news stories of people defending their lives with a gun, like these stories:

Dec 5, Man defends against robber
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA120507.thievesshot.kens.6d3dcecb.html

Dec 4, Man defends neighbor
http://www.wwaytv3.com/man_fires_shot_at_robbery_suspect/12/2007

Dec 4, Store owner defends against robber
http://www.charlotte.com/local/story/391360.html

Dec 4, Store employee defends against robber
http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=e397d88a-7aeb-49be-bf4a-a0e88ce0c161

Dec 3, Man defends home against robber
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/14758493/detail.html

Come on CBS, why do you ignore these stories?
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 4:04 PM PST
* Chalk up a few more victims for the NRA. When will we take a rational look at the crazy overarming of America? *

How does this story have anything to do with the NRA?
Reply to this comment
by averjane December 5, 2007 4:04 PM PST
How about we blame it on the criminal and this God-less society we live in.
Reply to this comment
by scarletphd December 5, 2007 4:07 PM PST
How about we blame it on the criminal and this God-less society we live in.
Posted by AverJane

Oh SPARE us - do you know how many criminals kill in the NAME of thier "god"????
Reply to this comment
by scarletphd December 5, 2007 4:09 PM PST
How does this story have anything to do with the NRA?
Posted by kindrox

"At least one person was shot Wednesday at a busy mall in Nebraska..."

Some random disgruntled loser who had a gun and used it instead of acting out his frustrations by swinging a stick.
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 4:11 PM PST
* Some random disgruntled loser who had a gun and used it instead of acting out his frustrations by swinging a stick. *

So it is the NRA''s fault that the Bill of Rights recognizes my right to own a gun? Odd, I thought the Bill of Rights was written long before there was a NRA.
Reply to this comment
by jetlizhan December 5, 2007 4:12 PM PST
AverJane -

i couldn''t have said it better myself. agree 100%
Reply to this comment
by scarletphd December 5, 2007 4:14 PM PST
Nearly 16 children a day died in 1997 as a result of a firearms homicide, suicide or unintentional shooting. [Children%u2019s Defense Fund, 1998]

Handguns are used in 80 percent of homicides, nearly 70 percent of suicides and nearly all accidental shootings. [Prevention First]

Between 1986 and 1992, the total number of children killed by firearms rose by 144 percent. [National Campaign to Reduce Youth Violence]

Direct and indirect costs of gun violence in 1995 amounted to more than $14 billion, over 80 percent of which was picked up by taxpayers. [Center for Disease Control and Prevention]

From 1985 to 1993, murders committed by people over age 25 dropped 20 percent; but they increased 65 percent among 18- to 24-year-olds and increased 165 percent among 14- to 17-year-olds. [Northeastern University%u2019s College of Criminal Justice]

From 1985 to 1992, the homicide rate for 16-year-olds increased 138%, while the rate among 18-year-olds doubled, and the rate for 24-year-olds and above either remained the same or declined. [National Institute of Justice Research Preview, 1995]

Children in adult jails commit suicide eight times as often as their counterparts in juvenile facilities. In addition, children in adult facilities are five times more likely to be sexually assaulted, and twice as likely to be beaten by jail staff. [Children%u2019s Defense Fund, 1998]

Reply to this comment
by scarletphd December 5, 2007 4:17 PM PST
In 1992, handguns killed 33 people in Great Britain, 36 in Sweden, 97 in Switzerland, 60 in Japan, 13 in Australia, 128 in Canada, and 13,200 in the United States. [Handgun Control Inc., cited in The Washington Post, 1998]

Annual rates of firearm homicides for youths age 15-19 increased 155% between 1989 and 1994. [National Summary of Injury Mortality Data, 1987-1994; National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, 1996]

Large cities claim that 72% of their school violence is attributable in part to gang activity. [National League of Cities 1994 survey of 700 U.S. cities]

In Los Angeles County between 1981 and 1992, 15,000 people died of AIDS, but 22,000 died as a result of homicide. [Los Angeles Department of Health Services]

In Los Angeles County between 1981 and 1992, a child between five and nine was slain, on average, every eight and a half days. [Los Angeles Department of Health Services]

In Los Angeles County, the use of semiautomatic handguns in gang-related killings has more than quadrupled, to more than 40 percent. [Los Angeles Department of Health Services]
Reply to this comment
by ictrep December 5, 2007 4:23 PM PST
OH FOR CHRIST''S SAKE!!! GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE!!!
PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. IF THEY DIDN''T DO IT WITH A GUN, THEY WOULD USE SOMETHING ELSE. GUNS DO NOT SIT ON SHELVES AND WAIT TO KILL SOMEONE. IT IS AN INANIMATE OBJECT. IT HAS TO HAVE SOMETHING BEHIND IT TO BE USED!!!
Reply to this comment
by ictrep December 5, 2007 4:28 PM PST
Scarlet, you plagerize very well!!!
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 4:28 PM PST
* Nearly 16 children a day died in 1997 as a result of a firearms homicide, suicide or unintentional shooting. *

Sure, if you call a 24 year old a "child". If 24 year olds are children, then the majority of our armed forces are "children" and the majority of people in college are "children".

Obviously 24 year olds are not children, you have expanded the definition to fit the results you want. Likewise most of your statistics are flawed.
Reply to this comment
by salty1954 December 5, 2007 4:31 PM PST
Like it or not - an armed populace is what prevents a dictator in America.
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 4:33 PM PST
* In 1992, handguns killed 33 people in Great Britain, 36 in Sweden, 97 in Switzerland, 60 in Japan, 13 in Australia, 128 in Canada, and 13,200 in the United States. *

Yeah, you have proven that we are not they. Britian only recently banned guns, and their crime rate INCREASED after doing so.

Swizerland has a gun ownership (per capita of course) similar to ours. And yet they have a very low crime rate.

We have a crime problem INDEPENDANT of citizens able to own guns legally.
Reply to this comment
by amcornelius December 5, 2007 4:35 PM PST
It was reported that there could be attacks at malls from terrorists during the holiday.
And Bush was there, and the shooters were in camo.
But even if they were terrorists, are they American,Foreigners,or whom? We won''t hear anymore about it because the economy would go into chaos if people were afraid to shop at their malls.

It''s a sad thing when a religious holiday is turned into an economic success or failure.

I pray for the victims and their families.

Innocent people are being murdered all over the world.

I don''t think that is something Jesus would do.
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 4:36 PM PST
If banning guns is the answer, why is Washington DC the murder capital of the USA? If legal gun ownership is the cause of crime, why do areas with the high concentrations of concealed carry permits almost always have the lowest crime rates?

Why don''t you ever hear of shootings at NRA meetings or gun shows?
Reply to this comment
by lewiston14 December 5, 2007 4:41 PM PST
This is happening all over and it is happening to often. Now its not safe to go to a mall with thousands of other people. I read clips how to keep holiday stress down. I think I figured a way. Stay out of malls and stay home. I find as I get older I take less chances. Lew
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 4:44 PM PST
Lew,

Out of 300+ million people, the news reports every nut that goes murdering people. While sensational, your chances of being murdered at the mall is very very small.

So why do you change your behaviour and avoid the mall, when you are many many many times more likely to die in a car accident or freak accident, provided you are not engaged in risky activities like committing crimes in places like Texas?
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 4:47 PM PST
Also CBS fails to mention that there is something going on around this mall. These guys are wearing camo, and MSNBC reports that they found a live granade in the parking lot.

If I recall, granades are illegal.
Reply to this comment
by rheola-2009 December 5, 2007 4:47 PM PST


Like it or not - an armed populace is what prevents a dictator in America.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by salty1954 at 04:31 PM : Dec 05, 20

You are so right, there are so many western countries controlled by Dictators.
Reply to this comment
by 5HwnBoys December 5, 2007 4:50 PM PST
GUN-STICK-KNIFE-BAT DO we blame the item used instead of the individual who commits the atrocious act. We should enforce the current laws instead of giving criminals a slap on the wrist then forcing law abiding citizens to pay by having to give up cetain constitutional rights. Consider this ScarletPhD, you have all the tools to open a massage parlor, girly club, etc. Do we hold it against you just because you have the tools?? NO we enforce the current laws on the books and stop hookers/prostitutes from selling tricks instead of holding all women accountable for the crimes of others. Even though they possess the same tools!
Reply to this comment
by lewiston14 December 5, 2007 4:51 PM PST
kindrox: I agree and you are correct. It''s just the way I feel sometimes reading the news. I doubt this had anything to do with terror But it still is bad news. Hiding under a bus stop seat after killing somebody in camo no less? I think people would have spotted this person from a mile away. Again you are correct and I should not feel that way. I think. Lew
Reply to this comment
by rheola-2009 December 5, 2007 4:52 PM PST


I can''''t believe that idiot ''''gunownerdan'''' hasn''''t joined this story yet...his solution to crime is to arm EVERYONE in America.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by ScarletPhD at 04:10 PM : Dec 05, 2007

Don''t be to hard on him, even though he is way off on this subject, He makes a lot of sense on others.

Reply to this comment
by gunownerdan December 5, 2007 4:52 PM PST
Murderers, terrorists, and other violent criminals love defenseless victims.
Responsible concealed-carry saves lives.
If some homicidal maniac with a gun decides to attack a shopping mall or a school, the only thing that is going to stop them is an armed citizen or security guard. The police take many minutes to arrive once they are called and by then the damage will be done. Get educated, get trained, and get prepared.
www.a-human-right.com

Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 4:55 PM PST
* You are so right, there are so many western countries controlled by Dictators. *

Hmm well there was Hitler in a country called Germany. And for a while Hitler ruled many western countries, until the good old USA went to war.

Since then there have been a number of countries that used to be democracies and are no longer. For example
Afganistan, Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Cuba, Sudan.

Considering the USA''s influance in the world, DO YOU SUPPOSE WE HAVE HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH NO MORE DICTATORS IN THE WESTERN WORLD?

Duh stupid! But who is going to keep the USA free of a dictator, moron. Because of course our government would never take our freedoms away to keep us *secure*.
Reply to this comment
by displeased December 5, 2007 4:58 PM PST
What?!? Blame the criminal. That''s very un-American. Nobody should have to take responsibility for their own actions. It''s the abusive parent''s fault, or the classmate''s fault, or society''s fault, or the drugs. And as most people on this post will say, it was the fault of the lenient gun laws. Either way, these people snapped and became criminals and they would have acted with or without gun laws.
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 4:58 PM PST
Lew,

I think the correct attitude is that nowhere is 100% safe. And no law will make it so.

The best thing people can do is take as much responsibility for their own safety as possible and be aware.

Then go about your business.
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 4:59 PM PST
* his solution to crime is to arm EVERYONE in America *

I have to ask, where did he advocate arming criminals?
Reply to this comment
by rheola-2009 December 5, 2007 5:01 PM PST

Considering the USA''''s influance in the world, DO YOU SUPPOSE WE HAVE HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH NO MORE DICTATORS IN THE WESTERN WORLD

Posted by kindrox at 04:55 PM : Dec 05, 2007

When you look at the majority of those countries you posted, certainly says a lot for the USA''''s influence.

Iraq, come on.

Reply to this comment
by anicelady December 5, 2007 5:01 PM PST
Statistics prove that more people are killed or crippled by drunk drivers each year than by handguns, purposely or accidentally. I don''t see people screaming for the sale of alcohol to be forbidden.
Reply to this comment
by gunownerdan December 5, 2007 5:02 PM PST
"It''s a nasty truth that those who seek to inflict harm are not phased by gun control laws. I happen to know this from personal experience."
- President Ronald Reagan, 1983

"Let me make a point here, in case this isn''t becoming extremely clear. My state has gun control laws. It did not keep Hennard from coming in and killing everybody! What it did do, was keep me from protecting my family!"
- Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, Killeen Texas Luby''s massacre survivor
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 5:02 PM PST
Further, I have to ask this. If every able bodied, responsible american was given firearm training, and then armed, just how much crime would we have?
Reply to this comment
by lewiston14 December 5, 2007 5:05 PM PST
Perhaps an older man out to buy a nice tie to have dinner with his family. Prehaps a husband buying a gift for his wife, perhaps a wife buying a gift for her husband, Perhaps a family buying a gift for their child. I can think of so many perhaps and how many lives were shattered some for ever for this senseless act.
Reply to this comment
by rheola-2009 December 5, 2007 5:05 PM PST

Before gun control laws were introduced in Australia, there were two major gun massacre''s, Port Arthur and Hoddle st. Melbourne.

Since gun control NIL

Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 5:05 PM PST
* Statistics prove that more people are killed or crippled by drunk drivers each year than by handguns, purposely or accidentally. I don''''t see people screaming for the sale of alcohol to be forbidden. *

Swimming pools kill over 2,000 very young children PER YEAR. I don''t see people screaming for stricter swimming pool ownership laws either.

Swimming pool deaths don''t make the news either.
Reply to this comment
by gunownerdan December 5, 2007 5:08 PM PST
Since there are nut cases out there who would murder innocent civilians for no reason, why should we be totally defenseless against them and forced to rely on the police for protection?


"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
-- Thomas Jefferson, quoting criminologist Cesare Beccaria
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 5:08 PM PST
* Before gun control laws were introduced in Australia, there were two major gun massacre''''s, Port Arthur and Hoddle st. Melbourne.

Since gun control NIL*

Great. Gun control, if started 100 years earlier would have saved, what 20 lives?

How many people have subsiquently died because they could not defend themselves? Hundreds? Thousands? How many rapes? How many assults? How many robberies?

Does the social good of saving the 20 justify the hundreds and thousands of dead, along with the rapes, assults and robberies?
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 5:15 PM PST
This is really the point with gun grabbers. When criminals kill the innocent, they want to take my gun and my wife%u2019s gun. Because somehow my being defenseless makes me safer.

And then if my wife is raped and then strangled, that%u2019s just too bad. Better luck next time.
Reply to this comment
by rheola-2009 December 5, 2007 5:16 PM PST

How many people have subsiquently died because they could not defend themselves? Hundreds? Thousands? How many rapes? How many assults? How many robberies

Posted by kindrox at 05:08 PM : Dec 05, 2007

I am confident that you would find, by comparison, on a pro rata basis, to overcome the population difference, that the numbers of offences as listed by you, would in fact be very much lower in Australia.

Of course criminals will always get guns anyway, usually from countries with lax gun laws.

Incidentally, both aforementioned massacres occurred immediately before the introduction of the gun control laws, no doubt if I checked further back, then the figure would be much higher than the innaccurate figure you state.
Reply to this comment
by amcornelius December 5, 2007 5:16 PM PST
There were warnings that terrorist attacks may happen in Malls during the shopping season. These people were wearing camos. Bush was in town.

So, the question is, a terrorist attack happened, but who were the terrorists?
Homegrown or foreign?

In Columbia, there are armed militia at all the Malls, Golf courses, etc. Is that how our country is going to end up?

Innocent people are being killed all over the world.

And it''s a sad state of affairs when our economy is so based on consumerism during a religious holiday.

I don''t think many people got the message Jesus sent when he was dying on the cross. He tried to teach non-violence and forgiveness.

Peace on Earth and Goodwill Towards Men. It''s just too bad people don''t try to live that way.

Reply to this comment
by beehive21-2009 December 5, 2007 5:18 PM PST
This is a live one.The day is fast arriving, we shall be wearing guns like the old west ,why ? Man loves killing, anything that walks runs or crawls,run out and arm yourselves to protect your fellow man .Great example of a nut case being allowed to kill, by society and not gunning them down before so mamy dead.prepare to take em out before they get to you.
Reply to this comment
by badbrown126 December 5, 2007 5:20 PM PST
It is a fact ..

The UK and Autralia are FAR more violent than the US. They just beat and stab each other rather than shoot each other.

In Japan they have over 50,000 suicides a year. They kill themselves ... rather than each other.

If you take the number of female babies killed in just JUST China and India ..... we are far more peaceful. Add in the other Asian countries and you would be stunned!

And Africa ... well in Africa 10''s of thousands are "missing" each day.

Each country has there own ugly face.

Just an observation.
Reply to this comment
by lewiston14 December 5, 2007 5:21 PM PST
Kindrox : This is going to be another hard one to sort out. Not everybody has the stability or responsibility to own a weapon. The only things I have shot are a few tin cans along the way but I also can do it from a mile away. I had two hand guns but turned them in. I now question that logic. I guess I did not want to be part of the big bang theory. Maybe I was wrong? Lew
Reply to this comment
by 5HwnBoys December 5, 2007 5:21 PM PST
displeased
so you mean to tell me enforcing laws won''t make a criminal think twice by taking all of them off the streets??? As you''ve stated we''re all doomed when the individual loses touch with reality and snaps, it doesn''t matter what they use cause they will still commit the heinous acts then blame it on society-abuse-neglect-ETC... Most Neigh sayers claim that without access to firearms we will all be safe. OK then we should also get rid of kitchen utilities, sports equipment, and please don''t forget vehicles, then we all can expect criminals to register and/or turn in their stolen/blackmarket weapons to the authorities right now. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THEN YOU''RE IN LUCK CAUSE I HAVE OCEAN FRONT PROPERTY IN ARIZONA FOR SALE.
Reply to this comment
by kindrox December 5, 2007 5:21 PM PST
* I am confident that you would find, by comparison, on a pro rata basis, to overcome the population difference, that the numbers of offences as listed by you, would in fact be very much lower in Australia. *

I did not ask about if they are lower. I asked how many people died, or were assulted, or raped, or were robbed, and could have prevented it if they were armed.

And then I ask, if 1,000 people defend their lives for every innocent person killed by a criminal, why do you take the means of protection away from the 1,000.
Reply to this comment
by denn034 December 5, 2007 5:21 PM PST
"It''''s a nasty truth that those who seek to inflict harm are not phased by gun control laws. I happen to know this from personal experience."
- President Ronald Reagan, 1983

"Let me make a point here, in case this isn''''t becoming extremely clear. My state has gun control laws. It did not keep Hennard from coming in and killing everybody! What it did do, was keep me from protecting my family!"
- Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, Killeen Texas Luby''''s massacre survivor
Posted by gunownerdan

Valid point.
Reply to this comment
by gunownerdan December 5, 2007 5:22 PM PST
When terrorists and other homicidal criminals decide to kill innocent civilians, the only thing that is going to stop them is a responsible armed citizen or security guard.
It takes the police many minutes to arrive and by then the damage will be done.
Killers will always prefer unarmed victims!
For the sake of humanity, get educated, get trained, and get prepared.
www.a-human-right.com
Reply to this comment
by fibonacci_ December 5, 2007 5:22 PM PST
Wake up America...youre getting sicker.
Reply to this comment
See all 626 Comments
  • MOST POPULAR
  • Viewed
  • Commented
Latest News
Featured Blogs