Iraq Violence At Lowest Levels In 2 Years

Muted Optimism As Death Tolls For Iraqi Civilians And U.S. Troops Go From "Horrific" To "Very Bad"

(AP)  The number of Iraqis killed last month fell to 718, an Associated Press tally showed, the lowest monthly death toll since just before the 2006 bombing of a Shiite shrine provoked a vicious cycle of retaliatory sectarian violence.

The figures come as the military says violence has fallen to levels not seen in nearly two years, while acknowledging that Iraqis are still dying in unacceptable numbers.

An expert on the effect of conflicts on civilians agreed, saying that while the downward trend was positive, it needed to be kept in perspective.

"We've gone from horrific levels of murder to very bad, which is an improvement but not a reason to celebrate," said Richard Garfield, a professor at New York's Columbia University and a manager of health and nutrition for the World Health Organization. "At these so-called low levels, there's a massive number of excess deaths still likely to occur."

It was the third consecutive monthly decline in the death toll of Iraqi civilians and security forces since August, when a massive suicide bombing targeting minority Yazidis in northern Iraq helped push the figure to at least 1,956.

Some 500 are thought to have perished in the bombing of the Yazidis.

At least 1,023 Iraqis were killed in September, 911 in October and 718 in November, the lowest since January 2006, when 615 Iraqis were killed, according to figures compiled by the AP from hospital, police and military officials, as well as accounts from reporters and photographers. Insurgent deaths were not included. Other counts differ and some have given higher civilian death tolls.

The number of U.S. troop deaths also declined for the sixth consecutive month, with at least 37 recorded in November, according to an AP tally based on military figures. That was the lowest number since March 2006, when 31 American service members died.

Despite the overall drop in deadly violence last month, at least seven Iraqis were killed in three attacks in and around Baghdad today.

A roadside bomb in a Sunni-dominated neighborhood claimed the lives of two police officers. Another officer was shot to death on his way to work.

Three soldiers were killed by a roadside bomb north of the city. And a third bomb blew up beneath a parked car near a Shiite mosque, taking the life of a civilian.

The U.S. military has said the decline in the number of deadly attacks is largely due to a troop buildup this summer of some 30,000 additional troops that enabled them to get closer to the population, as well as a sharp turn of public opinion against al Qaeda in Iraq and other extremist groups.

But American commanders and other officials have gone to great lengths to warn that militants on both sides of the Sunni-Shiite divide still pose a major threat, and violence continues.

"We're always encouraged by any downward trend in violence, but we can't get complacent," said Navy Lt. Patrick Evans, a military spokesman.

"There have been improvements in security, however, militants, insurgents, extremists and criminals out there will continue to keep looking for opportunities, so we have to remain vigilant and on alert," he added. "There's still a lot of work that needs to be done."

The numbers were high even before the Feb. 22, 2006 bombing in the city of Samarra north of Baghdad, which devastated the golden dome of a revered Shiite shrine. But the attack caused longstanding tensions to boil over and assassinations, bombings and execution-style killings were rampant.

November of that year was one of the deadliest of the war, with at least 2,250 Iraqis killed, dwarfing recent figures.

Garfield, the Columbia University expert, expressed concern that the recent reports of the decline in violence could tempt people to ignore the fact that the numbers are still high amid rising public criticism of the war.

"I think there is a great potential to close the door on Iraq, bring the troops home, wash our hands of it," he said in a telephone interview from Geneva. "But the improving trend suggests that the right kind of presence of the international force can make a tremendous difference in how the Iraqis are doing and they will need that presence for a long time."

He also estimated the count was only one-third of the actual total, underlining the difficulties in keeping track of the number of Iraqi civilians who have been killed since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003, with wide-ranging estimates that cannot be confirmed due to the tenuous security situation.

Iraq Body Count, an independent organization that tracks media reports as well as official figures, estimates that 77,573 to 84,502 civilians have been killed.

In a bid to better detect trends in the violence, the U.S. military is planning to increasingly use Iraqi data while warning that both sets of information are flawed.

"We recognize that when we only use coalition reports we underreport," said Col. Bill Rapp, a senior aide to the top U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus.

Rapp, speaking to a small group of reporters at a recent briefing on measuring trends, said the increasing use of Iraqi data became a priority as Petraeus shifted the U.S. command's focus to protecting the Iraqi people. It also will help the military fill in the gaps as it draws down forces and transfers more security responsibilities to the Iraqi government in coming months.

U.S. officials acknowledged that Iraqi government data is often incomplete and imprecise as well as tainted by potential sectarian bias. For example, there was a 50 percent decrease in field reports to the Iraqi national command center in October after the government failed to pay a contractor responsible for satellite transmission of the data.

But the military is working with the Iraqis to develop an automated database of their own that would help eliminate duplicate reports, among other attributes.

"We want to avoid the perception that if the coalition forces did not see it, it did not happen," said Lt. Col. Todd Gesling, an Army officer who works with databases.

[feelfree1]

Re: "Iraq Body Count, an independent organization that tracks media reports as well as official figures, estimates that 77,573 to 84,502 civilians have been killed."

According to the two best available estimates of excess violent Iraqi deaths, since the start of the Invasion, the number of dead Iraqis is more than one million.

Also, there are four plus million displaced Iraqis, Iraqis, and another couple million injured and maimed.

The Regime has delivered acute freedom to millions of Iraqis.

[feelfree1]

Re: "...as well as a sharp turn of public opinion against al Qaeda in Iraq and other extremist groups."

It still does not appear that very many Iraqis are falling for the "al-Qaeda-in-Iraq" ruse.

The strategy of "collaborating" against this dubious and imaginary band of boogie-men, is doomed to fail.

[micma-2009]

If there is no political reconciliation, then this is all for nothing and the situation will just spiral out of control when we draw down again.

[mcvet]

6 YEARS and TWO TRILLION Dollars and MAYBE we have some lowering of violence?? Now folks you have to be a REAL hard line bootlicker to call that progress but when you add to that the fact that the nation that, after 6 long years and two trillion dollars we HOPE we''ve gotten a cease fire in, had NOTHING to do with the attack on us nor posed any threat to this nation.... now anyone who call''s THAT a victory is drinking some of Pat Robertson''s SUPER kool aid. If FDR had fought WW II this way we''d have lost BIG TIME. At this rate we MAY find the GRAVE of Bin Laden in 50 years or so, when our kids are trying to make ends meet in a third world country. How many of the BENCH MARKS have they met??? That''s the question here... when can we get the He11 out of there and back to getting the real enemy??? Sieg Heil Bush!!

[hungry1968]

What has changed since March 2003? Saddam Hussein was removed from power, they held sham elections so that Bush''s puppet of choice was elected, and the terrorist sponsored Shia now control the government.

American troops are still dying in a country that did nothing to us and posed no threat to us. In fact, you can say that there weren''t any terrorists in Iraq until the invasion liberated them from Saddam Hussein''s rule.

Four and a half years later the questions still are, "Why did we invade, and how has it made us safer."

[cbs_oliver]

I have trouble understanding the casualty numbers for Iraqis.

I thought "we don''t do body counts."

I notice that all men between the ages of 15 and 55 or so who are reported killed by US action are automatically "insurgents" and probably "al Quada" or something. They arn''t counted as civilians killed or counted at all in many cases.

The US military unfortunately has a proven record of deceit about casualties in Iraq. The US media like CBS and FOX and CNN has a proven record of bearing false witness as well. We Americans can''t trust our media.

We are probably completely in the dark.

The Iraqis may have a better idea. The Iraqis can get their info from direct experience and word of mouth.

But they have no way to tell us.

Too bad.

Whatever happened to Christian values?

Actual Christian values.

Like "thou shalt not bear false witness."

[cfin5]

Hang in their fella''s. We''re trying to get Ron Paul elected, whose word is good to bring you guys home. It''s loooooong past due for the Iraqis to manage their own problems and for us to do the same on our own dirt.

[cbs_oliver]

I''m bemused to hear the reports that we are running out of people we want to kill.

I guess our work in Iraq is done.

From here on they can carry on killing without us.

Good.

Maybe we will be able to save our souls after all.

[mbievtea]

First of all, orngs2appls are you as ignorant as you sound? Secondly, FeelFree1 it is a shame that Islamic extremists have killed so many "so-called" fellow Muslims. They should be ashamed of themselves and the Muslim community should speak-up against it. Thirdly, I am so proud of my fellow Americans, allies, and especially our President. These people know what is at stake in the long run. It''s too bad there are still those unwilling to recognize the fight we are in. That''s something we have to accept in a free society.

[iceman_1960]

"We"ve gone from horrific levels of murder to very bad, which is an improvement but not a reason to celebrate," said Richard Garfield."

Nor is it an acceptable return on America"s four year investment in lives and dollars.

Bush isn"t in school anymore. He will not be "graded on a curve."

[iceman_1960]

"Thirdly, I am so proud of my fellow Americans, allies, and especially our President."
- Posted by mbievtea at 09:27 AM : Dec 02, 2007

You"re not half as pleased with Dubya as he is with himself.

He"s an empty suit, but he smiles in the mirror every morning as he"s shaving.

Whatever he says, is given to him to say by his handlers.

Case in point: here"s something his handlers thought a Japanese audience would love to hear him say, so they wrote it for him. And he said it.

Any other modern American president would have choked on these words:

"For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times." - George W. Bush, Tokyo, Japan, February 18, 2002

Source:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/02/20020218-2.html

[donbl1]

Ice, be happy with the news. Hatred makes you old before your days.

[pensacola88]

The sharp turn against religious extremists is taking place both Iraq and in the USA. That is because reasonable people see what happens when loud mouths speak out. We are tired of them. There is no shortage of them. They are often hypocrits with a loud voice. People can see that peace is not possible as long as someone is listening to one.

[iceman_1960]

"Ice, be happy with the news. Hatred makes you old before your days."
- Posted by donbl1 at 10:06 AM : Dec 02, 2007

Thank you, Gandalf the Grey. I"ll be really happy when the troops are home.

Just imagine Omar Bradley reporting to President Truman in 1948 that although the fighting was still going on there, there was reason for optimism, because the violence was at the lowest levels in two years.


(*) Gandalf the Grey: the wise old sage in "Lord of the Rings."

[macusweil]

A lower level of violence is good, but just getting back to where we were two years ago in a five year old conflict is not really not a turning point.

There is little or no progress in the government. It is only a matter of time before Iraq is divided. Without major long term international assistance the country will collapse.

The Turks will claim the north and Iran the continue to have greater influence in large parts of what remains. It will cost the US tax payer our Social Security system and more to continue to hold the occupation.

[iceman_1960]

In four years we"ve gone from "horrible" to "terrible."

There is no reason to be happy about that.

[radiob-2009]

Gandalf the Grey: the wise old sage in "Lord of the Rings."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Iceman

Aah the ring master, the ring. Hmmm reminds me of Bush.

[abdoul_pasha]

I haven`t noticed this, just the opposite-there is violence every day.

[radiob-2009]

look closely they have the same eyes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gollum.PNG

[iceman_1960]

RE: Post by radiob at 10:41 AM : Dec 02, 2007

"Sir Charles" Barkley made a wicked comparison of Gollum"s appearance to that of a current NBA player,

"I love Sam Cassell. But if anybody tell me that he don"t [sic] look like Gollum, they are full of it. The ugliest team in NBA history is the Celtics era with Danny ainge and Dennis Johnson. They were the 2nd best team I have ever played against, but they were not pretty people."

http://jensfreethrows.wordpress.com/2007/10/30/conan-propositions-barkley-to-use-jub-jub/

[iceman_1960]

Let me offer my impersonation of Karl Rove: "What? A war in Iraq? It"s Congress" fault!!! They pressured us !!!!"

[iceman_1960]

If you are beating your head against a stone wall, but not as hard this month, it will probably feel a little better.

That is a p*iss-poor definition of success in Iraq after 4 years, 4,000 dead troops and 1-2 trillion dollars in the hole.

Yeah we won the war! I guess we can bring all the troops home.

Not - this effort is about grabbing oil. There will be no withdrawal.

[baghdadshere]

Thank you, Gandalf the Grey. I"ll be really happy when the troops are home.

Posted by Iceman_1960 at 10:00 AM : Dec 02, 2007

Iceboy.....You leftist weakmind_brainwashed_by_democraters_antiwar_propaganda, just tell me, are you really so worried about the toops or you just pretend? Do you have any relative serving in Iraq?

[baghdadshere]

"Iraq Violence At Lowest Levels In 2 Years
Muted Optimism As Death Tolls For Iraqi Civilians And U.S. Troops Go From "Horrific" To "Very Bad""

"Very bad" is the way CBS clearly works for the democrates campaign while helps the terrorists cause.

[abdoul_pasha]

I have not noticed any decreasment in the violence

[iceman_1960]

"Do you have any relative serving in Iraq?"
- Posted by BaghdadsHere at 11:03 AM : Dec 02, 2007

I had a cousin who served and was decorated in the First Gulf War.

Now tell us about your thousands of relatives fighting hand-to-hand in the streets of Baghdad.

[iceman_1960]

After the Bill Clinton-Janet Reno Surge that defeated David Koresh, the violence in Waco was greatly reduced the following month, almost to zero.

Does the Right give them any credit for that ?

[baghdadshere]

FloydZepp....Another Osama-lover jihadidiot weakmind_brainwashed_by_democrats_antiwar_propaganda in the past 6 years. Rush to a rehab.

[jerr11]

And U.S. Troops Go From "Horrific" To "Very Bad"


Guess the neocons will start celebrating!

And it just goes to show how low their threshold is for success in Iraq.

When "very bad" becomes a cause for optimism, that''s an indication we''ve sunk pretty low.

[abdoul_pasha]

Stop calling everybody a jihadists only because he is against the aggressor Bush.

[baghdadshere]

"Do you have any relative serving in Iraq?"
- Posted by BaghdadsHere at 11:03 AM : Dec 02, 2007

I had a cousin who served and was decorated in the First Gulf War.

Now tell us about your thousands of relatives fighting hand-to-hand in the streets of Baghdad.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Iceman_1960 at 11:12 AM : Dec 02, 2007


Little Iceboy_1960....Gulf war ended a long time ago so you dont have to worry about your cousin anymore. About the fighting in the streets of Baghdad I wanna tell you that on this days its more dangerous to walk in the streets of Philadelphia than in Iraq.

[iceman_1960]

"If you were to wake up tomorrow and miraculously find Hillary was President, all the wars were over, and all our dead soldiers had been brought back to life and back to their families, you''''d still complain that "it took 24 hours instead of the promised 8 hours."
- Posted by michaelt302 at 11:15 AM : Dec 02, 2007

That is exactly what Bush would have to do to redeem himself: bring the dead back to life.

Not brag about fewer deaths this month.

And we aren"t talking about trivialities like 8 hours or 24 hours. We are talking about a war that has dragged on for 4 years in a country smaller than Peru in area and population.

Don"t even try to grade Bush on a curve. That should be left to future historians, if it is to be done at all. Don"t do it while he"s still in office and the war is still dragging on.

And don"t insult the families of dead soldiers with trivializing analogies.

[pelostilaho]

Maybe Captain Reid of the Mormon Lancers and Lieutenant Pelosi of the ILLEGAL moddycuddlers might summon up enough courage now to go over to Camp Victory and truly SUPPORT our troops.

Though I highly doubt it. Besides they''re too afraid of MoveOn.Org to do something meaningful and patriotic.

Ditto for the ''ore and cuckolded shrew, or Boy Obama who calls Lincoln a "Racist" yet sups with KKK Byrd. They''re equally gutless.

Bubba? Don''t make me laugh. He''s too busy looking for another Lewinsky to s*cker. He was a coward in ''67, he''s still a coward today - and "wifey" will only aid and abet that mindset because she''s one too.

Now, start screeching hyenas. Don''t forget to drop a few "sieg heils" too - that''s about your speed, America-haters. You''d prefer Islamonazi throat-slitters to win, and you know it, so why not go over and join them.

Fact is, you of the brain dead Fascist Left as stupid and cowardly as those I''ve mentioned above.

We''re winning - and your moveon.org stooges can''t deal with it. Tee Hee.

[radiob-2009]

I am sorry this photo is of all of the presidential candidates and President Bush prior to makeup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Im
age:Gollum.PNG

[baghdadshere]

Stop calling everybody a jihadists only because he is against the aggressor Bush.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Abdoul_Pasha at 11:18 AM : Dec 02, 2007


Abdoul.....Fix your mouth you jihadidiot, GWB is the greatest terrorists hunter in history and the president who saved America from suicide-bombers SOB like you.

[pelostilaho]

Hi Baghdad''s Here,

Iceboy is just a typical coward and big baby.

Do you remember when he threatened me - then claimed I threatened him.

Just a girlyboy - he wouldn''t get caught dead in a uniform of the U.S. military because the "heshe" lacks cojones.

Maybe a visit with his boyfriend Bubba or his "girlfriend" Hil might solve that. But I''ve heard she''s too busy servicing Suha Arafat.

[iceman_1960]

"Gulf war ended a long time ago so you dont have to worry about your cousin anymore. About the fighting in the streets of Baghdad I wanna tell you that on this days its more dangerous to walk in the streets of Philadelphia than in Iraq."
- Posted by BaghdadsHere at 11:18 AM : Dec 02, 2007

Only a mediocre intellect would think of the First Gulf War as "a long time ago."

As for your second point, thanks for making the case for redeployment.

The troops should be brought home at once to patrol the mean streets of America"s big cities.

Thanks for making the case for the Murtha Plan.

[radiob-2009]

All political pundits are saying the same thing on this that both Rove and Clinton are flip flopping on this.

[pelostilaho]

FloydZepp,

You''re boring me.

Be a good little girlyboy and attend that meeting of the Hitlerjugend you regularly attend. Maybe you can say a prayer there for Osama - I''m sure David Duke, Cindy Sleazehand, and KKK Byrd won''t mind.

IF LEFTISTS HAD BRAINS, THEY''D BE REPUBLICANS. AND AMERICANS.

Not brain dead girlyboys.

[abdoul_pasha]

Abdoul.....Fix your mouth you jihadidiot, GWB is the greatest terrorists hunter in history and the president who saved America from suicide-bombers SOB like you.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by BaghdadsHere
*--------
Why what will you do if I dont fix my mouth

[iceman_1960]

Pelostilaho, the Hitler Blogger, has emerged from the closet once again.

Pelostilaho = "All Hitler All The Time"

Just change your screenname to AdolphHitler and be done with it.

And I"m not the only one hiding behind an anonymous screenname, am I, "Pelostilaho" ?

Or is that your real name in the phone book ?

[pelostilaho]

When DID YOU serve, Floydzepp, outside of cleaning toilets?

Your girlfriend David Duke is calling you, little girlyboy. You must be running along - after all, you must avoid that Army Recruiting Station down the block.

[baghdadshere]

Hey, its only 718 dead Iraqis this month! Lets throw a Party and declare "Mission Accomplished!" HAHAHAHAHA!!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by FloydZepp at 11:21 AM : Dec 02, 2007


Floyd.....You jihadiot Osama-lover, there have been more than 200 killed in NYC, 180 in Chicago, 140 in Washington in just one month. Its too much if compared to the entire Iraq.

[radiob-2009]

Hey, its only 718 dead Iraqis this month! Lets throw a Party and declare "Mission Accomplished!" HAHAHAHAHA


Or as George would say Muslim Accomplished.

[pelostilaho]

iceboy,

You''re funny. And still a big coward and baby.

You and your friends who support Osama are the Nazis here, not WE AMERICANS.

But just spew and **** in your pants like the coward you are, and pretend everytime you or another bozo screech "sieg heil" you''re supporting the troops.
Too bad the reality is that you''re too cowardly to do so.

Your mommie''s got a warm bottie for you. Nope, not champipple either.

[iceman_1960]

Pelostilaho had to run away in tears and change his screen name when he got caught making cowardly Internet threats in violation of Federal law.

"Iceboy,

You are one hilarious pissant. How is your Uncle Adolf Hitler these days? Do you care to join him??? It could be arranged."
- Posted by SendReidPelo at 02:00 PM : Nov 04, 2007

[pelostilaho]

Floydzepp is a cowardly idiot who is now trying to claim he''s a Republican.

About as Republican as Nancy Pelosi or Bubba - two other NONSERVING COWARDS.

Like him.

He needs to go back to his copy of "Mein Kampf" - I''m sure a brain dead fascist like him gets his inspiration from it.

[radiob-2009]

Pelostilaho how many personality disorders are you suffering from MichaelT/Singinrick?

[pelostilaho]

It CAN still be arranged, Iceboy.

LOL.

Now don''t forget to go screaming and crying. Maybe you can get Floydzepp to stick up for you. Though I highly doubt it. Girlyboys do lack cojones.