PARK CITY, Utah, Nov. 29, 2007
More Mentally Ill Barred From Buying Guns
Database Has Doubled In Past Three Months, But 18 States Still Not Participating
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In his first policy speech since taking over as attorney general early this month, Michael Mukasey encouraged more states to add information to a federal list of mentally ill people barred from buying guns. (AP Photo/Charles Dharapak)
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Virginia Tech Tragedy
Deadly shooting rampage on Virginia Tech campus leaves 33 dead.
In his first policy speech since taking over as attorney general early this month, Mukasey said states have now reported 393,957 mentally ill people to the federal database used to screen the backgrounds of potential gun-buyers. As of last July, three months after the Virginia Tech shootings, states had submitted only 174,863 names to the database.
“Instant background checks are essential to keeping guns out of the wrong hands, while still protecting the privacy of our citizens,” Mukasey said.
“But as we learned in the tragedy at Virginia Tech, the checks must be accurate and complete to be effective,” Mukasey told the National Association of Attorneys General. “We're making progress, and I hope that even more states will submit this information so that the national instant background check system can be maximally effective.”
People are included in the federal database only after courts or other authorities have found them to have mental health problems, Justice Department officials said. Federal agencies, including the Defense and Veterans Affairs departments, also submit names, but the Justice Department could not immediately say how many.
Currently, 32 states submit names to the mental health database, and the federal government cannot force the other 18 to follow suit.
“We've got 32, it'd be nice to have 50,” Mukasey said.
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Virginia Tech student Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people and himself in the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history. He bought two guns - a Glock 9mm at a Virginia store and a .22-caliber pistol over the Internet - despite a special justice's 2005 order to get outpatient treatment for being a danger to himself. There has been no indication that Cho ever received the treatment.As we learned in the tragedy at Virginia Tech, the (background) checks must be accurate and complete to be effective.
U.S. Attorney General Michael MukaseyHad his court order been submitted to the federal database, Cho likely would have been unable to buy the guns.
Private mental health records, including diagnosis documents from hospitals or insurance companies, are not accessed or submitted to the database. Overall, more than 5 million people are identified in the background check system that is maintained by the FBI and also tracks the names of illegal immigrants, domestic violence offenders and others who are barred from buying guns.
Despite Cho's gun purchases, Virginia traditionally has submitted far more names of mentally ill people to the federal database than other states, Justice data show. Shortly after the Virginia Tech shootings, officials said the state had given 81,233 names to the FBI. Michigan had the second-largest submission of names then, with 73,382, the Justice data show.
By comparison, California had submitted only 27 names of mentally ill people to the database as of April 30. Since then, the state has given more than 200,000 names to the list, Justice officials said.
National Rifle Association spokesman Andrew Arulanandam said the gun-rights group has no problem with the database.
“It has always been our position that whoever has been adjudicated as mentally defective or deemed to be a danger to themselves, others or suicidal, that their name be included in the national incident check system,” he said.
Ron Honberg, legal director for the National Alliance on Mental Illness, was not surprised that more states are reporting since the Virginia Tech shooting. “We're uneasy about it,” he said. “We're concerned that in the minds of many, mental illness is, per se, equated with violence.”
The list could have the names of people who were ill decades ago but have received treatment and are well, or information from the database could be used for unintended purposes, Honberg said.
“It frustrates us that when tragedies like Virginia Tech occur, the focus is on guns and not how somebody like Cho falls through the cracks,” Honberg said.
Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard, a Democrat, said he was pleased to hear Mukasey urging greater cooperation among states.
He said Arizona was one of the first to submit mental-health records. He wants the federal government to consider relaxing some privacy laws so colleges would have access to the records. “Obviously, privacy has to be considered, but we have some harmful powder kegs out there who are older than 18,” Goddard said.
The attorneys general from 33 states gave Mukasey's speech polite applause. Several of the top state lawyers told reporters afterward that Mukasey's biggest challenge will be restoring morale in the Justice Department.
“I think having a new attorney general will help tremendously,” said Hawaii Attorney General Mark Bennett, a Republican appointee. “I think many of my colleagues agree he commands enormous respect.”
Idaho Attorney General Lawrence Wasden, a Republican, said that Mukasey, in a private meeting with some of the attorneys general, said fighting terrorism and combating violent crime would be among his top priorities.
Wasden said Mukasey did not talk about the legality of waterboarding, a brutal interrogation technique that creates the sensation of drowning.
© MMVII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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See all 55 CommentsShortly after the Virginia Tech shootings, officials said the state had given 81,233 names to the FBI. Michigan had the second-largest submission of names then, with 73,382, the Justice data show.
By comparison, California had submitted only 27 names of mentally ill people to the database as of April 30. Since then, the state has given more than 200,000 names to the list, Justice officials said.
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That''s scary. Not only that.
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He said Arizona was one of the first to submit mental-health records. He wants the federal government to consider relaxing some privacy laws so colleges would have access to the records. %u201CObviously, privacy has to be considered, but we have some harmful powder kegs out there who are older than 18,%u201D Goddard said.
What constitutes mental illness? And who determines it? For the people out there that would prefer all guns be banned I''m sure you don''t care. For those of you that don''t want the long arm of the Federal Government infringing on your rights, you should be very frightened. They will do away with patient doctor confidentiality. And once medicine is socialized, the doctors will be in the pockets of the Government. They will be on their payroll. This country better wake up.
It''s already started. The Government controls the insurance agencies. And the doctors work for the insurance companies.
Posted by rohink
rohink, sounds like YOU should be on the list.
Hmmm, I wonder if MichaelT302 is on the list.
The problem is that there are a million mentally disturbed people they don''t know about.
They don''t have the all of the gun stores & gun shows that we do.
...You talkin" to me ?....
http://images.art.com/images/-/Robert-DeNiro---Taxi-Driver--B10104005.jpeg
When only the police can have guns, it''s called a POLICE-STATE.
"One man with a gun can control 100 without one. Make mass searches and hold executions for found arms."
- Lenin
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We wouldn%u2019t let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"
- Joseph Stalin
"Every Communist must grasp the truth, Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our Principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party."
- Mao Zedong
"On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing."
- Adolf Hitler
Folks, all dan wants to do is to stoke the fires of paranoia so that more and more su/ckers will buy more and more guns and he will make MO'' MONEY! He doesn''t care ONE BIT about your "safety" or "protection".
Guns are NOT A SOLUTION; they are a PROBLEM. Guns are an OFFENSIVE WEAPON. They do not "defend"; they KILL.
If you get a gun, the odds of dying from gunshot INCREASE, they do not decrease.
More guns = more innocent dead people.
If your sister is "crazy", for God''s sake, you should be GLAD she hates guns. If she liked them, soon she would kill herself, or you, or someone else with a gun! Sheeeeeeeeesh!!
BTW, re/****: I have "touched one" myself. In fact, I am an expert marksman. I don''t "hate" guns. I hate the fools that think they have to own them for "protection"! If someone hates guns, why should you care? They have just as much right to hate them as you do to love the feel of that cold steel phallus in the palm of your hand.
And your children well also receive a letter from Santa Claus.
Merry Christmas From:
Poconocommunitynews.com
About 20 years ago near where I live a nurse was pounced upon by a man in the hospital parking lot when she was leaving work on the evening shift. Fortunately she was holding a pistol in her hand and was able to kill the predator. Probably saved her life and maybe the lives of future victims. Certainly saved the taxpayers money and grief. Women are vulnerable. Handguns are equalizers. But I do beleive
guns should be kept out of the hands of crazies and criminals as much as possible.
Good. Hopefully, some of those mentally ill include gun-haters like Rosie O''Donnell, Sara Brady, etc., people who you wouldn''t ever want to own a gun in the first place.
Has anyone ever suggested that you should go see a psychiatrist? From reading your posts, it sounds to me like you have an irrational fear of guns and gun owners. I don''t believe that anyone who has such a loathing of other people and their guns has ever taken the time to use one of those "evil, people killing devices" and become and "expert marksman" as you claim. Get some help, dude.
Peace
About 100 million people, victims of genocide or decimated to contol them (like Stalin killing 20 million Ukranians) over the last 100 years or so have not gotten along without guns.
Of course crazies and criminals should fail the background check.
Citizens have the power to control their own future. Subjects are told how and when to stop living.
How will an armed citizen be turned into a subject?
My wife and I both have our CHL permits and carry handguns. We are trained in thier use. We are also middle class, not involved in gangs or any sort of criminal activity. Nor are we in an abusive relationship.
Please explain to me how it is more likely that I will die from gunshot. And perhaps you can answer a few more questions:
Is my wife now more likely to be raped?
Am I more likely to be the victim of a violent crime?
Believe it or not the rest of the world is surviving just great without firearms. We are living in peace and harmony compared to the U.S.
First off, you said that she was POUNCED upon, which says that he surprised her. So WHY did she have a gun in her hand?
How many people are walking around with a gun in their hand? My point is that most people are NOT walking around with a gun in their HAND, it is probably in their handbag, pocket or car. If someone surprises you, the chances are you are not going to have a chance to get your gun and someone will surely kill you because you are going for that gun. It is the same for if you were in your house and someone surprises you, you are not going to have it in your hand, so therefore you are going to have to try and get to it.
Are you serious? Someone really needs to explain this to you?
When you have the vast majority of American citizens (and a good majority of which are WHACKOS) running around with guns, HOW CAN YOU ASK THAT QUESTION?
"U.S. children are 12 times more likely to die by gunfire than children in 25 other industrialized countries COMBINED." (Source: John Hopkins Center for Gung Policy and Research)
Kids, 10 to 24 years old-firearms are 2nd leading cause of death.
"In 1995, 1 in 2 students in a national survey reported carrying a firearm for fighting or self-defense at least once in the previous 30 days." (Source: National Center Of Injury Prevention and Control)
And that is just the KIDS!
I am glad you saved me the trouble of debunking your own *statistic*.
Duh stupid, just who do you think make up 90% of gang members? It%u2019s *kids* 10-24 years old. Gee, gang members killing gang members, who of thunk it?
When you say guns kill kids, you say it with the intention of causing people to think their honor roll, non-gang affiliated child is somehow very likely to be shot. You never bring up that the actual source of that statistic is gang violence. Considering that gang violence kills many people in prison, how is this statistic relevant to anything?
For your second statistic, do you really expect us to believe 50% of students are packing guns at school? I mean really, where do you get this ***?
And back to my original question. Don said I was more likely to get die from a gunshot if I also carried a gun. You did not answer the question. What is it about my carrying a gun that makes ME more likely to get shot?
When my wife walks to her car from her business, and it is dark outside, her hand is on her gun, in her pocket. You won%u2019t be able to lay a hand on her faster than she will lay a bullet in you.
* If someone surprises you, the chances are you are not going to have a chance to get your gun and someone will surely kill you because you are going for that gun.*
This is your fear talking. Look at police officers. They REACT to the actions of others, and police, while occasionally killed, have better than even odds of drawing their weapon and saving their own lives.
*It is the same for if you were in your house and someone surprises you, you are not going to have it in your hand, so therefore you are going to have to try and get to it.*
Yes. An unloaded gun in difficult to open safe in an inconvenient part of the house might not save your life. Guns are not magic charms. You have to think, train, and be able to use them as the tool they are.
"U.S. children are 12 times more likely to die by gunfire than children in 25 other industrialized countries COMBINED." (Source: John Hopkins Center for Gung Policy and Research)
Kids, 10 to 24 years old-firearms are 2nd leading cause of death."
What do you expect when we give drug gangs and drug dealers a monopoly on billions of dollars in black-market profits thanks to the harmful "war on drugs"?
A very large percentage of the violent deaths are drug-related. Do not blame guns for all the crime caused by a failed drug prohibition policy!!
Maybe not in EVERY state, but yes I do.
The statistics come from the sources I gave you and were gotten from this website. One thing I know for sure is that Americans know VERY LITTLE about their own country. Maybe you should do some research.
"You won%u2019t be able to lay a hand on her faster than she will lay a bullet in you."
Don''t be so sure. A person can learn how to shoot a firearm but when it comes to actually using it to kill someone and especially if they are surprised, I think you will find that it isn''t as easy as you think. The police are used to drawing their guns.
"This is your fear talking. "Look at police officers. They REACT to the actions of others, and police, while occasionally killed, have better than even odds of drawing their weapon and saving their own lives."
Like I said, police officers are used to REACTING to these kinds of situations. So unless a person is constantly having to draw their gun there is no way they can be prepared enough to know HOW and IF they can react properly.
I do NOT live in fear of guns. And I also do not live in fear of being shot BECAUSE not every Tom, ******** and Harry owns a gun where I live. The vast majority of people DO NOT own a gun, whereas in YOUR country the vast majority DOES own a gun.
OH PLEASE! There is a lot more gun crime that is NOT related to drugs. People shoot people just for the sake of shooting them.
People shoot people for letting off fireworks and many other really stupid things.
Complete bull s h i t. Most of the violent crime in this country is directly related to the drug flow. Upper class burbs are among the highest percentage of gun ownership. Why aren%u2019t they crime centers?
*The police are used to drawing their guns.*
Most police officers only practice shooting once a year for their annual qualification.
*Don''''t be so sure.*
I am sure. So is she. Many average people defend their lives EACH DAY in the USA by pulling and shooting their firearm.
You obviously think about what would happen if you were in a situation to defend yourself with a gun and you are afraid. That is ok. What is not ok is to let your fear turn you into a coward, and project your insecurities onto other people.
Here are average people who in the last few days defended themselves with a gun:
http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=7430954
http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/11873271.html
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_539854.html
In the third story, the attacker already HAD A GUN POINTED IN THE FACE OF ONE OF THE VICTIMS. And yet a would be victim got the upper hand AFTER the attacker drew a gun.
Put your balls back on and act like a man. Stop living in fear.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14702833/detail.html
Two men invaded a home and held several people at GUNPOINT. Father came and killed one attacker and held the other at gunpoint for police. Father received a minor wound.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313148,00.html
Pistol packing granny stops two robbers. And old lady can do it, why can%u2019t you?
Every day heroes are who those who may have fears but do what they need to do. Every day cowards are those who think up reasons why they cannot take any responsibilities for themselves and attempt to tear down anyone else who does.
People shoot people for letting off fireworks and many other really stupid things."
Posted by erasmus6
If that''s the case, why one earth should non-violent law abiding citizens not be able to protect themselves?
The foundation of many of these fears is the person himself thinks that if he had a gun, he would shoot others for stupid reasons. So he projects that other people with guns might look to shoot him for a stupid reason.
Its the same BS we heard when Texas started issuing concealed carry permits. All the cowards and fools were becides themselves with how it was going to be one large shoot out.
Yet all that happend was crime started falling.
People shoot people for letting off fireworks and many other really stupid things.
Posted by erasmus6
That''s why I own guns, so I can defend myself and my family from the same people you mention. My second amendment protected firearm protects your first amen... WAIT A MINUTE! You''re CANADIAN! You don''t HAVE the same constitutional rights I have.
Not all Americans are rude. I grew up in gun free homes. I am more scared of cars and trucks plus drive by shootings. I know what the contution has to say on this. Bear in mind the the frame it was written.
I am very glad to hear that!
It wouldn''t have mattered if the people letting off the fireworks had guns or not because they didn''t even see the guy that shot them. He was standing in HIS yard when he shot them. They had no warning. And who knows, maybe someone had a gun but they didn''t get the chance to use it because they didn''t see him.
If people were not allowed to have guns this wouldn''t have happened. And please don''t say that the guy could have used something else because if he did use a knife or whatever, then he would have had to have more GUTS to be able to do it and they would have had an opportunity to see him coming. He would have had to come face to face with them. They then would have had the opportunity to fight him off or run.
"You obviously think about what would happen if you were in a situation to defend yourself with a gun and you are afraid. That is ok. What is not ok is to let your fear turn you into a coward, and project your insecurities onto other people."
Are you an Idiot? Obviously you didn''t read my post.
I am not afraid of a gun. I know how to shoot very well.
Believe me I don''t live in fear of being in a situation where I need to defend myself with a gun. Why would I need to do that? I just told you that where I live, no one has a gun. We don''t have the crime that you have. We all feel safe in our homes and on the street.
I feel sorry for you. I can''t imagine what it must be like to feel that you have to carry a gun to protect yourself. I guess it must be hard for someone who has grown up in a country where everyone has guns and has the kind of crime you have, to know what TRUE FREEDOM is all about. You obviously don''t know what it is like to be able to live without fear of someone attacking you. You need to remember that just because YOU live like that doesn''t mean that people in other countries do.
"Put your balls back on and act like a man. Stop living in fear."
Oh and one last thing, I am a woman and I do not live in fear, I don''t need to HIDE behind a gun. YOU are the one living in fear.
Millions of civilians legally own guns in Canada. For some reason you seem to think no one but the Canadian police have guns but that''s just not the case.
I actually heard recently that the Canadian government is considering loosening a gun restriction.
And for some reason, you seem to think dangerous criminals will be first in line to hand over their guns if they are banned.
Quite the opposite.
By definition a criminal does not obey laws so if you ban guns, criminals and cops will be the only people who have them. Gun control only effect law abiding citizens.
Luckily here in America, lots of people realize that the police and the government are not responsible for our personal safety.
One guy gets shot, and so no woman should be allowed to have a gun to defend herself, no homosexuals, no business owners, nobody. Because one guy got shot.
Take cars away, they killed someone today. Take swimming pools away, someone died in one today.
Maybe you need to spend more time on Canada boards. Your violent crime rate is going up. Ours is going down.
But when push comes to shove we will find out that you are not about saving lives, you are about attempting to control others.
"Millions of civilians legally own guns in Canada. For some reason you seem to think no one but the Canadian police have guns but that''''s just not the case."
Yes, there are people in certain areas that probably own a gun. I live close to a big city and my daughters live in the city and we have no problems. We don''t have any fear at all and that is because the vast majority of people DON''T have guns. People don''t have guns in their homes, cars or on themselves.
When guns are the answer to all your problems and are a big part of your life you can expect more violence. It changes your mentality.
"I actually heard recently that the Canadian government is considering loosening a gun restriction."
You Americans need to be more careful about where you get your information because usually it is wrong. You barely know what is going on in your own country, never mind anyone elses.
"Take cars away, they killed someone today. Take swimming pools away, someone died in one today."
This is the typical response from a gun lover. People that are obsessed with their guns will come up with any excuse they can find.
There is a big difference between someone with a gun that is killing people and someone that is killed by a car or drowning.
"Your violent crime rate is going up. Ours is going down."
Our violent crime rate is going down. YOURS is going up and always will be. You can''t have the vast majority of people walking around with guns and not have it go up.
I suggest you start researching your country. I have found many Americans no nothing about their country. There was a link on this website, which I will try to find again, which tells all the statistics of crime and gun crime in your country. I suggest you read it. It mosts states gun crime has gone up not down.
670,000 English pages for guns for sale.
327,000 English pages for guns wanted
And you think laws are going to stop gun crimes? Grow up.
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