More Mentally Ill Barred From Buying Guns

Database Has Doubled In Past Three Months, But 18 States Still Not Participating

(AP)  A federal list of mentally ill people barred from buying guns has doubled in size since the Virginia Tech shootings, and U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey encouraged more states Thursday to add information to the database.

In his first policy speech since taking over as attorney general early this month, Mukasey said states have now reported 393,957 mentally ill people to the federal database used to screen the backgrounds of potential gun-buyers. As of last July, three months after the Virginia Tech shootings, states had submitted only 174,863 names to the database.

“Instant background checks are essential to keeping guns out of the wrong hands, while still protecting the privacy of our citizens,” Mukasey said.

“But as we learned in the tragedy at Virginia Tech, the checks must be accurate and complete to be effective,” Mukasey told the National Association of Attorneys General. “We're making progress, and I hope that even more states will submit this information so that the national instant background check system can be maximally effective.”

People are included in the federal database only after courts or other authorities have found them to have mental health problems, Justice Department officials said. Federal agencies, including the Defense and Veterans Affairs departments, also submit names, but the Justice Department could not immediately say how many.

Currently, 32 states submit names to the mental health database, and the federal government cannot force the other 18 to follow suit.

“We've got 32, it'd be nice to have 50,” Mukasey said.

Virginia Tech student Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people and himself in the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history. He bought two guns - a Glock 9mm at a Virginia store and a .22-caliber pistol over the Internet - despite a special justice's 2005 order to get outpatient treatment for being a danger to himself. There has been no indication that Cho ever received the treatment.

Had his court order been submitted to the federal database, Cho likely would have been unable to buy the guns.

Private mental health records, including diagnosis documents from hospitals or insurance companies, are not accessed or submitted to the database. Overall, more than 5 million people are identified in the background check system that is maintained by the FBI and also tracks the names of illegal immigrants, domestic violence offenders and others who are barred from buying guns.

Despite Cho's gun purchases, Virginia traditionally has submitted far more names of mentally ill people to the federal database than other states, Justice data show. Shortly after the Virginia Tech shootings, officials said the state had given 81,233 names to the FBI. Michigan had the second-largest submission of names then, with 73,382, the Justice data show.

By comparison, California had submitted only 27 names of mentally ill people to the database as of April 30. Since then, the state has given more than 200,000 names to the list, Justice officials said.

National Rifle Association spokesman Andrew Arulanandam said the gun-rights group has no problem with the database.

“It has always been our position that whoever has been adjudicated as mentally defective or deemed to be a danger to themselves, others or suicidal, that their name be included in the national incident check system,” he said.

Ron Honberg, legal director for the National Alliance on Mental Illness, was not surprised that more states are reporting since the Virginia Tech shooting. “We're uneasy about it,” he said. “We're concerned that in the minds of many, mental illness is, per se, equated with violence.”

The list could have the names of people who were ill decades ago but have received treatment and are well, or information from the database could be used for unintended purposes, Honberg said.

“It frustrates us that when tragedies like Virginia Tech occur, the focus is on guns and not how somebody like Cho falls through the cracks,” Honberg said.

Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard, a Democrat, said he was pleased to hear Mukasey urging greater cooperation among states.

He said Arizona was one of the first to submit mental-health records. He wants the federal government to consider relaxing some privacy laws so colleges would have access to the records. “Obviously, privacy has to be considered, but we have some harmful powder kegs out there who are older than 18,” Goddard said.

The attorneys general from 33 states gave Mukasey's speech polite applause. Several of the top state lawyers told reporters afterward that Mukasey's biggest challenge will be restoring morale in the Justice Department.

“I think having a new attorney general will help tremendously,” said Hawaii Attorney General Mark Bennett, a Republican appointee. “I think many of my colleagues agree he commands enormous respect.”

Idaho Attorney General Lawrence Wasden, a Republican, said that Mukasey, in a private meeting with some of the attorneys general, said fighting terrorism and combating violent crime would be among his top priorities.

Wasden said Mukasey did not talk about the legality of waterboarding, a brutal interrogation technique that creates the sensation of drowning.

[erasmus6]

"WAIT A MINUTE! You''''re CANADIAN! You don''''t HAVE the same constitutional rights I have." posted by bhappy2-2

You see, you Americans think it is your constitutional right to own a gun, we think it is stupidity.

We don''t have to own a gun because we have nothing to defend ourselves from.

[michellem99-2009]

I used to feel safe growing up.erasmus6 is right here. There is no need for the guns. Gangs have taken over. erasmus I asked a person what he/she do if guns were taken away The answer *Make them*.

[erasmus6]

"1,440 French pages for Guns for sale (in Canada)
391 French pages for Guns wanted (in Canada)" posted by ToolMangler

First off you need to get your information from reputable sources. Most aren''t and even if this was true, it is a very little amount.


"Breathing is hazardous to you health in Canada."

Hahaha, that is funny. There ain''t a lot of people living that far up north.

Walking down the streets and in parks is hazardous to your health in the U.S.

Going to the hospital is hazardous to your health in the U.S.

Hell, just sitting in your own home is hazardous to your health in the U.S.

[toolmangler-2009]

Breathing is hazardous to you health in Canada.
It has been determined that breathing is the greatest cause of lung damage in Canada (especially external air) in the Northern most areas. Frozen lungs are the culprit, All outside breathing should be banned and people prohibited from going outside without wearing heated oxygen masks and Snowmobile suits.

[toolmangler-2009]

1,440 French pages for Guns for sale (in Canada)
391 French pages for Guns wanted (in Canada)

[toolmangler-2009]

I just Googled this

670,000 English pages for guns for sale.
327,000 English pages for guns wanted


And you think laws are going to stop gun crimes? Grow up.

[erasmus6]

kindrox

"Take cars away, they killed someone today. Take swimming pools away, someone died in one today."

This is the typical response from a gun lover. People that are obsessed with their guns will come up with any excuse they can find.

There is a big difference between someone with a gun that is killing people and someone that is killed by a car or drowning.

"Your violent crime rate is going up. Ours is going down."

Our violent crime rate is going down. YOURS is going up and always will be. You can''t have the vast majority of people walking around with guns and not have it go up.

I suggest you start researching your country. I have found many Americans no nothing about their country. There was a link on this website, which I will try to find again, which tells all the statistics of crime and gun crime in your country. I suggest you read it. It mosts states gun crime has gone up not down.

[erasmus6]

gunownerdan

"Millions of civilians legally own guns in Canada. For some reason you seem to think no one but the Canadian police have guns but that''''s just not the case."

Yes, there are people in certain areas that probably own a gun. I live close to a big city and my daughters live in the city and we have no problems. We don''t have any fear at all and that is because the vast majority of people DON''T have guns. People don''t have guns in their homes, cars or on themselves.

When guns are the answer to all your problems and are a big part of your life you can expect more violence. It changes your mentality.


"I actually heard recently that the Canadian government is considering loosening a gun restriction."

You Americans need to be more careful about where you get your information because usually it is wrong. You barely know what is going on in your own country, never mind anyone elses.

[kindrox]

erasmus6,

One guy gets shot, and so no woman should be allowed to have a gun to defend herself, no homosexuals, no business owners, nobody. Because one guy got shot.

Take cars away, they killed someone today. Take swimming pools away, someone died in one today.

Maybe you need to spend more time on Canada boards. Your violent crime rate is going up. Ours is going down.

But when push comes to shove we will find out that you are not about saving lives, you are about attempting to control others.

[gunownerdan]

erasmus6,
Millions of civilians legally own guns in Canada. For some reason you seem to think no one but the Canadian police have guns but that''s just not the case.
I actually heard recently that the Canadian government is considering loosening a gun restriction.
And for some reason, you seem to think dangerous criminals will be first in line to hand over their guns if they are banned.
Quite the opposite.
By definition a criminal does not obey laws so if you ban guns, criminals and cops will be the only people who have them. Gun control only effect law abiding citizens.
Luckily here in America, lots of people realize that the police and the government are not responsible for our personal safety.

[erasmus6]

kindrox

"You obviously think about what would happen if you were in a situation to defend yourself with a gun and you are afraid. That is ok. What is not ok is to let your fear turn you into a coward, and project your insecurities onto other people."


Are you an Idiot? Obviously you didn''t read my post.
I am not afraid of a gun. I know how to shoot very well.

Believe me I don''t live in fear of being in a situation where I need to defend myself with a gun. Why would I need to do that? I just told you that where I live, no one has a gun. We don''t have the crime that you have. We all feel safe in our homes and on the street.

I feel sorry for you. I can''t imagine what it must be like to feel that you have to carry a gun to protect yourself. I guess it must be hard for someone who has grown up in a country where everyone has guns and has the kind of crime you have, to know what TRUE FREEDOM is all about. You obviously don''t know what it is like to be able to live without fear of someone attacking you. You need to remember that just because YOU live like that doesn''t mean that people in other countries do.

"Put your balls back on and act like a man. Stop living in fear."

Oh and one last thing, I am a woman and I do not live in fear, I don''t need to HIDE behind a gun. YOU are the one living in fear.

[erasmus6]

"If that''''s the case, why one earth should non-violent law abiding citizens not be able to protect themselves?" posted by gunownerdan


It wouldn''t have mattered if the people letting off the fireworks had guns or not because they didn''t even see the guy that shot them. He was standing in HIS yard when he shot them. They had no warning. And who knows, maybe someone had a gun but they didn''t get the chance to use it because they didn''t see him.

If people were not allowed to have guns this wouldn''t have happened. And please don''t say that the guy could have used something else because if he did use a knife or whatever, then he would have had to have more GUTS to be able to do it and they would have had an opportunity to see him coming. He would have had to come face to face with them. They then would have had the opportunity to fight him off or run.

[erasmus6]

"I went to court and got my name back legally." posted by MichelleM99


I am very glad to hear that!

[michellem99-2009]

Yes erasmus6 is Canadian. I have always welcomed a person who is visiting our Nation. She is visiting our Nation thru this board. erasmus6, I want to thank you for yer kind words when we talked about names. I went to court and got my name back legally.
Not all Americans are rude. I grew up in gun free homes. I am more scared of cars and trucks plus drive by shootings. I know what the contution has to say on this. Bear in mind the the frame it was written.

[bhappy2-2]

People shoot people just for the sake of shooting them.

People shoot people for letting off fireworks and many other really stupid things.

Posted by erasmus6

That''s why I own guns, so I can defend myself and my family from the same people you mention. My second amendment protected firearm protects your first amen... WAIT A MINUTE! You''re CANADIAN! You don''t HAVE the same constitutional rights I have.

[kindrox]

*People shoot people just for the sake of shooting them.*

The foundation of many of these fears is the person himself thinks that if he had a gun, he would shoot others for stupid reasons. So he projects that other people with guns might look to shoot him for a stupid reason.

Its the same BS we heard when Texas started issuing concealed carry permits. All the cowards and fools were becides themselves with how it was going to be one large shoot out.

Yet all that happend was crime started falling.

[gunownerdan]

"People shoot people just for the sake of shooting them.
People shoot people for letting off fireworks and many other really stupid things."

Posted by erasmus6


If that''s the case, why one earth should non-violent law abiding citizens not be able to protect themselves?

[kindrox]

I%u2019ll keep going to drive home the point about your cowardice. All from three days ago:

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14702833/detail.html

Two men invaded a home and held several people at GUNPOINT. Father came and killed one attacker and held the other at gunpoint for police. Father received a minor wound.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313148,00.html

Pistol packing granny stops two robbers. And old lady can do it, why can%u2019t you?

Every day heroes are who those who may have fears but do what they need to do. Every day cowards are those who think up reasons why they cannot take any responsibilities for themselves and attempt to tear down anyone else who does.

[kindrox]

*OH PLEASE! There is a lot more gun crime that is NOT related to drugs. People shoot people just for the sake of shooting them.*

Complete bull s h i t. Most of the violent crime in this country is directly related to the drug flow. Upper class burbs are among the highest percentage of gun ownership. Why aren%u2019t they crime centers?

*The police are used to drawing their guns.*

Most police officers only practice shooting once a year for their annual qualification.

*Don''''t be so sure.*

I am sure. So is she. Many average people defend their lives EACH DAY in the USA by pulling and shooting their firearm.

You obviously think about what would happen if you were in a situation to defend yourself with a gun and you are afraid. That is ok. What is not ok is to let your fear turn you into a coward, and project your insecurities onto other people.

Here are average people who in the last few days defended themselves with a gun:
http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=7430954
http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/11873271.html
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_539854.html

In the third story, the attacker already HAD A GUN POINTED IN THE FACE OF ONE OF THE VICTIMS. And yet a would be victim got the upper hand AFTER the attacker drew a gun.

Put your balls back on and act like a man. Stop living in fear.

[erasmus6]

"Do not blame guns for all the crime caused by a failed drug prohibition policy!!" posted by gunownerdan

OH PLEASE! There is a lot more gun crime that is NOT related to drugs. People shoot people just for the sake of shooting them.

People shoot people for letting off fireworks and many other really stupid things.