Vicar: Dire Times For Iraq's Christians

Tells 60 Minutes Most Of Iraq's Christians Have Fled Or Been Killed

(CBS)  On Sunday, Aug. 1, 2004, five churches were bombed. The Iraqi Christian community, which had survived invasions by Mongols and Turks, was driven out under American occupation. No one can be sure, but White estimates most of Iraq's Christians have fled or been killed. Those still here are too old, too ill or too poor to run.

"Why are you feeding them all?" Pelley asked.

"Because, this is the only decent meal they’ll have in the week," White explained. "They can’t afford food. So we're just moving from every other week to every week because they've got nothing."

Nothing for many, not even their families. The 60 Minutes team was confronted with one of many stories of depravity as the congregation left.

"Outside the church service this gentleman put these pictures in my hand. I can't show you the pictures. They’re just too much. They’re pictures of his children. His daughter who was 15 years old. And his son who was about four years old. They've both been shot in the head," Pelley said.

His children were killed, the father said, because he ran a liquor store. Liquor stores are typically Christian businesses here, legal, except under the Islamic street justice that rules since the invasion.

"So I hear stories of shootings, death, torturing, kidnapping, mutilation. I hear it all," White told Pelley.

The people with those stories once lived in a neighborhood called Dora, where Christians, Sunnis, and Shiites had lived together. 60 Minutes wanted to see what happened there so, we took a ride with U.S. Army Colonel Rick Gibbs. His men picked Pelley and the team up under a rusting relic of Saddam's tyranny, a parade archway made of two enormous swords, and from there they headed to ethnic cleansing's "ground zero."

"We have 13 churches. None of them are operational," Col. Gibbs said.

Asked if this was the worst neighborhood in town, Gibbs said, "It’s the toughest neighborhood in town."

Gibbs commands the 4th Brigade, 1st Infantry Division out of Fort Riley, Kan. In Dora, he set up a combat outpost in an abandoned Catholic seminary.

"I was at a secret church service yesterday. A man came up to me and handed me some photographs of his children. They’d been shot to death. Somebody had come by their house and murdered his children because they were Christians. What are you seeing?" Pelley asked Gibbs.

"I don't see a lot of that anymore. But when we first arrived we saw lots of that. We have 500 a month. That's what we were tracking," the colonel replied. "It would not surprise my soldiers to walk down a street on a patrol and see three or four bodies laying in the street with a bullet behind their head."

U.S. forces do not protect the churches. There's a hands-off policy for all religious sites and Gibbs says there's another reason.

"The Christians do not what us to guard the churches openly," he said.

Why wouldn't the Christians want Gibbs and his soldiers to protect the churches?

"They feel that if we are overtly protecting the churches that someone underground covertly will come in and murder the Christians because they’re collaborating with the U.S. forces," Gibbs explained.

There seems to be less violence now in part because of the surge of U.S. forces but also because the purge of Christians from Dora is largely complete. Gibbs says Islamic militants are on the run now.

"We hear that through our intelligence sources on the ground people telling us they’re running that’s how we knew to come down here with our next big fight to keep getting after them," Gibbs said, as shots could be heard in the background. "And that's what you hear over there is us in that fight trying to go get them."

[reply60min]

re: scalia
on the recent 4th guantanamo ruling allowing proper rights to the accused, he opined/fear mongered "if we let the prisoners go, they will kill again". What an argument against mccain!
Jeffrey toobin ("the nine", interviewed on moyers) has it right. scalia is just as guilty of "legislating from the bench" and failure of "strict interpretation" of the constitution. if the goal was really to interpret "a well regulated militia..." then english academics should have created equivalent constructed phrased, polled for interpretation, and the result would likely show the prefatory clause and operative clause syntactically bound. the smug and hypocrite scalia only gloats not because he is right, but because he can bully with the narrow 5 of 9 majority vote (largely installed by partisan politics), besides, the "rights" of the individual can be limited when it interferes with the rights of the masses (stolen cheap "saturday night specials") or to law enforcement safety. btw, recall it was at the same time bush told iraqis they needed to incorporate more women in parliament, that the female representation in the supreme court was reduced by 50% (o''conner retiring and roberts replacing). With pro choice women''s rights in contention, the 1 of 9 disparity must have looked like pure hypocrisy to the iraqis.

[reply60min]

Unfortunately the iraq invasion was promoted highly on religious grounds. from the christian airforce, boykin, bush''s "voices from god" go-ahead, ashcroft/rice''s prayer and hymn singing sessions, and well paid mercenary eric prince(of amway fortune)/blackwater, the real "hijacked religion" occured by your own "born again/thou shalt not kill" bush. the unitary/labeled fascist bush and neocons relied on levi strauss'' "the public needs to be lied to because they can''t understand". it bode well in the 2nd term elections with 2 large voting block factions that rely solely on non-questioning and doing what one is told, the church sheep and the military. the west''s religious involvement is inseparable.

[roe1352]

The report was somewhat misleading. It made it look like the Christians in Iraq were from Western based churches. Many (if not most?) of the Christians in Iraq are Assyrian and has essentially been there since for 2,000 years. It seems logical (not fair or right) that Muslim Iraqis would feel resentment for a western religion looking for converts in the country, but their punishment has also been doled out to a religion and people that have been living in their neighborhoods with them for the past 2,000 years.

There are also many Iraqi Assyrians in the US, and also working with the US military. Why not get their angle on this since they have an American and Iraqi perspective?

[reply60min]

(cont from alhura story)
much of israel''s taking of palestine (besides violating 242 and geneva conventions) looses potency if the sympathy falls from the spotlight. It is pure hypocrisy to have a "museum of tolerance" and run a apartheid regime that terrorizes the palestinian population to ethnically cleanse the land for racist zionist inhabitants, simply because they would loose in an equal rights democratic society as the minority. recall when schwarzenegger "donated" $700k (latimes) to the holocaust memorial to have his family genealogy researched for nazi involvement as a precondition for jewish support. Of course, there is a "holocaust industry". The "story" has to be kept alive while people don''t even know of other mass killings that are more significant. ahmadinijad may be a denier to the same extent bush is, but don''t be afraid to admit points that are true.

mcgoiter for vp

CAN YOU PLEASE NOT YELL AT US...TY

last time i checked it was xian catholics who molested those kids not the jews, just a small observation

[reptilian96]

I don''t know why? POPE doesn''t do anything about this propaganda?

rlukas2:
i''m waiting...

and if god doesn''t have a sense of humor, (don''t mock god) then why do we laugh?

i have been speaking honestly. i see it like this: i am a good person, i don''t hurt others, i pay my taxes, i vote and live a happy life. yet if i were to break any law i would get 5 years. this prez who claims to be a xian, kills millions of people and has a moneky grin (sorry to the monkeys) will have nothing happen to him or his cronies. that''s fair? that''s god like? sure. you religon doesn''t work, and ppl are starting to realize this. anyone remeber the priests molesting children? what happend to them? what? NADA!

[reptilian96]

These f**king Arabs and Jews are brothers historically speaking. Ishmail and Issac two son of Abrahim from different wifes. Ishmaili ARABS and Isaac JEWS. All the hardline Jews know about this is a fact but they deny just like they deny Jesus at the time. They are killing each other in the name of same GOD although due to language differencess they call it different. However, I think Jesus is God which they both don''t believe. So, why my Christan country have to get involve in this ignorant religious battle. We need our money here in USA. We don''t need to support Israel at all.We can always make millitary base Where Israel is and control the area. long live USA a solid christan country.

[sda09923]

jerriemc23:
one think that you can count on is the judgment. Read my earlier post. God can not be mocked, remember%u2026
But do you know what will be judged? How does a person get into heaven and why does a person get turned away. Please tell me that. I have spoken, a lot, I am interested in what you think on this and more importantly why do you think that.
If you say that people that claim faith have done bad things, well that is correct.. most of the people that have hurt me the most are .. well you get the idea.. it is always your friends that hurt you the most.. right? But are you able to separate what people do and say and act like from what God is, and does. Can you separate the two things.. you have to.. you can not learn about the motivations of a perfect holy God by looking through faulty people and get a clear picture, right.
If you look at me, I would love it if you saw God, but all too often%u2026 well%u2026 you see me. Does that make sense?
Speak honestly as I have with you.

[reptilian96]

FOX NEWS discovered the presence of a massive spy ring inside the United States run by the government of Israel. This seems a harsh gratitude from a nation which obtains 10% of its annual budget from the American taxpayer, $3+ billion a year. Over the years, American taxpayers have been required to send Israel more than four times what the US spent to go to the moon.

the "bib"le is one of the most used, least understood books of all time. if god is such bad A** then why did he need us to write his book, or need a woman to give birth to his son? i mean couldn''t he have just wrote it himself or create "jesus" from thin air. it''s a fictional account of history.

[sda09923]

acolton1:
well that is understandable.. please know that I don%u2019t have a religion, I have a faith%u2026 But I know what you mean. I have always thought that it is a deep desire of every human to know God. It is part of our makeup. Some people feel that in response to that desire, humans created something to satisfy themselves. Certainly this world leaves a lot to be desired. So how do you know? This is kind of what you are asking, or at least saying.. I wish I had more than 1500 characters for this. I can not prove God for you, if I could what use is faith. Which by the way is cherished, and admired, by God.
I think about%u2026
The changes that have happened, and are happening, in my life and in other people%u2019s lives, don%u2019t forget the 12 apostles, how they were changed. Don%u2019t forget Paul.
God, as he describes himself, is nothing like us, he is totally different. If we would have invented him in our image he would not have been the God in the bible, certainly not the New Testament. A God that lays down the life of his own son for a pack of disobedient ungrateful people who did not ask him to, were not seeking him, and for the most part would ignore, reject and mock him. Certainly not a product of the Roman world, nor ours.
I am not putting you or anyone down, I am guilty, more than once..
No God is real, he wants you to know him, personally. That deep desire, God said he put that into every one of us.

acolton1:
i could not agree w/you more. it''s all about the benjamins. they only want to use us and toss us aside. i''m looking forward to the day when the chruch will be held responsible FOR THIER ACTIONS. and yes there good ppl/chruches out there, but for the most part the only hate and divide

rlukas2:
i appreciate your concern, i really do, but your religon doesn''t work for me. i believe we created god in our image, not the other way around.

[sda09923]

acolton1:
yes.. it makes you a target. It requires a lot of courage and strength. Love and faith in what God has said. But the same thing is required no matter where you live. I live in the US. No one is actively trying to hunt me down and kill me for my faith, well not yet anyhow. But the world forces you to choose no matter where you live the world competes for your allegiance, no matter where or who you are?
Instead of giving money, time, effort, all of which I have so little of, I could be enjoying myself.. all I have to do is turn away, from what God has said. It would be so easy. But I lay all that down and sacrifice not just money and time, but the right to pay back wrongs done to me, to forgive when I DO NOT want to, (honesty) In away no matter where you live, don%u2019t you have to give up this life for God. Salvation is free, following God is not.
Can you have both. No.. you really cannot.. So now you have a problem. Do what you want to, what everyone around is doing, what you have maybe been taught, what seems profitable, easy, happy, satisfying.. or do you do what God has said, not because you like it, but because of who he is, what he has done.. Present yourself daily as a holy sacrifice to the Lord our God.. isn%u2019t that what God has said. Are there any but, or unless this or that.. no my friend there are not. There is only one thing that matters, isn%u2019t there.. To know God, to Love God, and to obey God. Is what I am saying true, deep down is it true?

[sda09923]

jerriemc23:
In the book of Mathew. Where the judgment verses are. %u201CWhen you have done these things for the least of my brother, you have done them to me%u201D .. God feels what you feel, even if you brother are the least. Know that you can not be separated from God, his Holy Spirit, that lives inside of you. They can kill us, but they can not take that from us. Some of my friends have laid their lives down for God. You, as a believer, someone that has accepted the Christ are not condemned to this world, but your pain and discouragement are. I know that it is hard, but try to remember that.
Please do not trust those feelings, if you trust your feelings more that what God has promised you are in trouble. That is what Satan wants you to do, to forget the promises of the most high.