June 29, 2008
Vicar: Dire Times For Iraq's Christians
Tells 60 Minutes Most Of Iraq's Christians Have Fled Or Been Killed
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Iraqi Christians In Peril
A clergyman in Baghdad tells Scott Pelley that the situation for Iraq's Christians is worse now than under Saddam Hussein's reign, and possibly the worst since Christians have lived in the country.
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From the time of Jesus, there have been Christians in what is now Iraq. The Christian community took root there after the Apostle Thomas headed east in the year 35.
But now, after nearly 2,000 years, Iraqi Christians are being hunted, murdered and forced to flee -- persecuted on a biblical scale in Iraq's religious civil war. You'd have to be mad to hold a Christian service in Iraq today, but if you must, then the vicar of Baghdad is your man. He's the Reverend Canon Andrew White, an Anglican chaplain who suffers from multiple sclerosis and from a fanatical determination to save the last Iraqi Christians from the purge.
White invited 60 Minutes cameras and correspondent Scott Pelley to an underground Baghdad church service for what's left of his congregation. White's parishioners are risking their lives to celebrate their faith.
"The room is full of children, it’s full of women, but I don’t see the men. Where are they?" Pelley remarked.
"They are mainly killed. Some are kidnapped. Some are killed. In the last six months things have got particularly bad for the Christians. Here in this church, all of my leadership were originally taken and killed," White explained. "All dead. But we never got their bodies back. This is one of the problems. I regularly do funerals here but it's not easy to get the bodies."
Many Iraqi Christians' churches are destroyed or abandoned. The congregation is smuggled in and out of this secret sanctuary. Even letting 60 Minutes come to the service was a terrible risk. White is among the last Christian ministers here, a savior with crosses to bear. Larger than life, stricken with MS, and by his own reckoning, driven a little bit mad.
He was first sent to Baghdad by the Archbishop of Canterbury nine years ago, well before the Christian persecution.
"You were here during Saddam’s reign. And now after. Which was better? Which was worse?" Pelley asked.
"The situation now is clearly worse” than under Saddam, White replied.
"There’s no comparison between Iraq now and then," he told Pelley. "Things are the most difficult they have ever been for Christians. Probably ever in history. They’ve never known it like now."
"Wait a minute, Christians have been here for 2,000 years," Pelley remarked.
"Yes," White said.
"And it’s now the worst it has ever been," Pelley replied.
To understand the history of Iraqi Christianity, start with the Last Supper. One saint to the right of Jesus is the Apostle Thomas, who took the gospel and headed east after the death of Christ.
In modern times, under Saddam, Christians were treated much the same as Muslims; Saddam's right hand man, Tariq Aziz, was Christian.
Before the war, it's estimated there were about a million Christians in Iraq. They were a small minority, but free to worship, free to build churches, and free to speak the ancient language of Jesus, Aramaic. But, after the invasion, Muslim militants launched a war on each other and the cross.
Produced By Shawn Efran and Philip Ittner
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See all 200 CommentsSuddenly after all this time someone discovers that Christians are dying too and decides this requires a special story?
Will the story report that some Christians were killed by our bombing attacks right at the beginning?
At the same time they downplay the evidence that perhaps as many as a million people have been killed as a result of our invasion and occupation.
It may be crazy.
But the prospects are probably not good.
Surely he would help the people in Iraq of his own faith, right???
Gullible fools.
We live in scary times!
True liberals don''t want to go to war remember they are trying to get us out. But the wing nuts are keeping us their but hey don''t worry soon it will be election time and a new Democratic President will be there to get us out.
Not in one day it will take a while but it will not be long term like say 30 years until the oil runs out.
The poll says that 48 percent of Americans believe progress is being made in Iraq. That is up from 30 percent in Febuary.
This just goes to show what a year of endless reporting on OJ, Britney, Lindsey Lohan, and Anna Nicole can do to our perception of reality.
Go to sleep America. I don''t want to wake you up from your dreamworld by telling you that things are just as bad as ever.
But if you don''t believe me, just go see for yourself.
http://icasualties.org/oif/
"The number of U.S. troops killed in November remained at a low not seen since March 2006 on Thursday, a respite from years of bloodshed that forced some 2 million Iraqis to flee and prompted the buildup of nearly 30,000 more American forces."
Posted by X-LEGION-X at 03:03 PM : Nov 29, 2007
Jehovah''s Witness is based on Christianity
Posted by antoniof123
Wrong. Even the true liberals (who are "better" than the media/academia ones) are just like the war-hawks. THEY WANT TO WAGE WAR. They want to do it against their own citizens however, by way of police instead of military. The "true liberals" of America are not allowing disagreement with their views, because they will resort to guns to get their way (ie. the IRS,etc.).
The only ideology which is right is one of total nonviolence. Whenever a liberal opposes the a foreign war, s/he is standing in the blood of socialist programs. Both sides are equally guilty of unnecessary warfare and will surely burn in he11 if there is such a place.
Just as I was amazed that Bush would join his buddies Pat Robertson and James Dobson and turn against science in favor of cultural myths, I also was amazed to learn that Obama wants to ban Americans from owning most popular firearms, clearly undercutting the second amendment. He''s further to the left than H. Clinton!
Ignorant extremists among both the Republicans and Democrats seek to destroy rights guaranteed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights. From Adrian Fenty in DC to Mike Rounds in SD, ignorance and fascim abound.
We lose no matter who wins the upcoming election unless some of the candidates wake up and read the Constitution.
Under the Saddam regime, these Iraqi Christians were alive.
Under the Bush regime, they are dead.
See the difference?
How is this the fault of the US?
This murderous Muslim behavior is being imported from Iran, Syria and Sandia Arabia.
Or do you think these acts of Islamic barbarism justified? If so, how?
"JERUSALEM - A wall mentioned in the Bible"s Book of Nehemiah and long sought by archaeologists apparently has been found, an Israeli archaeologist says. Artifacts including pottery shards and arrowheads found under the tower suggested that both the tower and the nearby wall are from the 5th century B.C., the time of Nehemiah, Mazar said this week.(*)"
"Elvis Lives !! The National Enquirer"s reports of Elvis Presley"s survival have apparently been confirmed, with the discovery Thursday of a pair of blue suede shoes on a curb in Memphis, Tennessee. Archaeologists have dated the shoes to 1980, three years after Presley"s alleged death." (**)
(*) Source:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071130/ap_on_sc/israel_jerusalem_dig
(**) Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_presley
How is this the fault of the US?
This murderous Muslim behavior is being imported from Iran, Syria and Sandia Arabia.
Or do you think these acts of Islamic barbarism justified? If so, how?
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Posted by Sevenveils at 11:03 PM : Nov 29, 2007
+ report abuse
Take the Swastika out of your ears you pathetic bootlicker. The EXTREMIST weren''t there, according to this man, BEFORE we invaded this nation that posed NO threat to us nor had anything to do with the attack on us. Got it??? Sieg Heil Bush!!
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Posted by memerider at 05:53 PM : Nov 29, 2007
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You know we''d do so much better and wouldn''t elect totally incompetent MORONS like the one we have IF we''d all stick to the subject at hand. Sieg Heil Bush!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYjQpFAGUrQ
I don''''t live in fear.
If you choose to live in fear...that''''s your choice.
Our current leaders rule this nation by fear.
Posted by jh6379 at 10:50 AM : Nov 30, 2007"
There''s a major difference between fear and realization of reality.
Can''t speak for Chez there, but I don''t live in daily fear of my house being broken into, that doesn''t mean I''m going to leave my front door unlocked...do you?
Persons within the defense department, the administration, and even those who own/operate U.S. media were and continue to be strongly aligned with the war as an inevitable and messianic enterprise.
Vicar White himself is a publicized member of the Knights Templar. He has negotiated with and paid many dollars to jihadists and others to obtain the release of numbers of hostages in Iraq. It is clear that he believes he is doing the right thing while such suffering, persecution and slaughter on all sides continues.
Those who have so strongly promoted and continue to promote the war and the long-term u.s. occupation of Iraq must share responsibility for mistakes that have been made.
Just as the Christians were safer under Saddam, so many Iraqis believe that the heightened sunni-shia conflict has been an ideological tool used to enable the coalition to gain the upper hand.
Such scapegoating and horrid examples of sectarian and ethnic cleansing are now everyday events in Iraq. This has become a true crime against humanity.
As is too often the case, we have BECOME that which we would want to oppose.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
Thank you.
Can you Bootlickers READ? Can you fully understand what you and your INCOMPETENT FUHRER has done here? Conservatives have MANY MANY bloodstained ugly pages in our history, this may end up being their worst. Sieg Heil Bush!!
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Posted by NavyRetired2 at 11:10 AM : Nov 30, 2007
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I think he''s referring to some American''s willingness to give up the lives of their young because of the INCOMPETENCE of ONE man. I think they are talking about the Rights under that Constitution that have been trampled by the Reich and the fuhrer.... Maybe you should rethink your answer sparky!! Sieg Heil Bush!!
Islam does not have an agenda. Islam places high regard for christianity and judaism. Christians and judaisim are regarded as "people of the book" within the muslim faith. Muslims believe that people are descendents of Adam and Eve and believe in prophets mentioned in the old and new testament. Muslims believe in Noah, David, Abraham, John the Baptist, and etc. Muslims believe Jesus as a prophet.
There are atleast 1.5 billion muslims in the world. If islam is about terrorism, then why aren''t all of them terrorists then? Terrorists come in all sorts
shapes and color. Remember the bombings in Ireland that occurred in the 1980s?
In islam, the killing of one innocent human being(regardless of the person''s faith) is equivalent to wiping out the entire humanity. That is the magnitude of the sin.
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Posted by Concerned_1 at 03:23 PM : Dec 02, 2007
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You didn''t read any of this article did you Swastika Breath? You didn''t listen to ONE WORD this man said did you? He said there WAS NO RADICAL Religious Leaders allowed to do these things under SADDAM. They have been allowed to do these things under US RULE! Under the rule of that slime dog a few and I do mean a few still call a President. Because HE lied... because HE rushed to war... because HE and HE alone insisted on putting our kids out in those streets WE must live with this and our children must live with this. Now I have little doubt that you bootlickers will care, you have never done so in our history, but REAL American''s sure will... Sieg HEIL Bush!!
Thank you.
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Posted by knoori at 07:45 PM : Dec 02, 2007
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I don''t think THIS nation is responsible for the security and protection of the citizens of IRAN Sparky... WE the PEOPLE ARE responsible for George W. Bush and the horrible thing that is IRAQ... absolutely and completely responsible. Sieg Heil Bush!!
Posted by superchez1 at 10:32 AM : Nov 30, 2007
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As a young man I grew up in the south and I know about Religious Extremist and Terror...all of it that I saw was done by CHRISTIAN''s. I''m also a Combat Veteran who owes his life to a Black Muslim from Chicago. That Black Muslims saved this Old Kentucky Boy''s life and now he''s on that Wall in Washington... he can''t tell you what he thinks but I can. It would appear after all these years that you fools in the Klan would change your line...that''s the same one you had in Salma during the 60''s, with the exception that it was Blacks who should all be killed or deported then. You truly are a disgusting human.
The American involvement in Iraq, such the torture tactics of American contractors and the murders and crimes committed by America''s need for soldiers,only adds to the justification and America''s corruption in the eyes of the world.
Any presidential candidate we elect as the leader in 2008, has the monumental task to repair the image created by the Bush Administration and the Iraq War. Without major strides in repairing the image to the world, the American economy will continue to suffer.
His comments about the Christian religion being no better than the Islamic religion, because of the Crusades, is typical of people who are not educated in history.
Many today in the self-reflective West view the Crusades as acts of unjustified aggression towards the peaceful inhabitants of the east and the Holy Land. Few would expect Muslims to sit idly by if Christians seized control of and denied access to the Kaaba in Mecca and the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem.It would be fully expected that Muslims would retaliate and seek to reclaim control of or access to their holy sites.
Far from being embarrassed by what the crusaders did, contemporary Christians should be proud that they found the courage to do precisely what the Muslims would do in the same situation.Christians should certainly deplore evil acts committed during the Crusades, such as massacres of innocent Muslims and Jews that occurred done by small groups of ruthless people hiding under the Christian banner.
However, the enterprise of the Crusades themselves had two important goals at its core: the defense of the Christian civilization against outside aggression(making the Crusades as a whole wars of self-defense)and securing access to the holy sites that commemorate to the most important events in world history.
While Saddam was a dictator in Iraq the crimes that he was charged with in his trial were crimes committed with help of the American government.
With that said, Saddam did not tolerate Muslim fanatics and rebels. In order to rule his country he HAD to rule the way he did because Iraq was established by Imperialism. The country was created by drawing borders on a map. The instability of the Middle East is caused due to multiple cultures and religions forced to live amongst each other due to western intervention. Saddam had to rule the way he did in order to maintain stability in his country. Was it right? Probably not, but were the Iraqis better off? I am not Iraqi but I would have to say so.
We have to live the knowledge that our PRESIDENT DESTROYED the one of the world''s first civilizations. America destroyed museums. America destroyed temples. America destroyed cultural artifacts.
I am disgusted by some of the comments written on this article. As an American, we do not live with insurgents, terrorists, bombings, mass killings, and the destruction of cities. The closest we have seen to anything like this was the destruction of New Orleans. Educate yourself and stop falling for the propaganda spewed by the Bush Administration.
Re: "From the time of Jesus, there have been Christians in what is now Iraq."
"But now, after nearly 2,000 years, Iraqi Christians are being hunted, murdered and forced to flee --"
I see. So under the Saddam regime, and for the past 2,000 years, the Christians in Iraq were just fine.
By contrast, under the new Bush regime, the Iraqi christians are "being hunted, murdered and forced to flee".
This is a clear style difference between these two regimes.
I as an Assyrian,would first of all thank 60 minutes for highlighting the plight of my people back home, it''s been ignored way too long.
What the report did not mention was a question many assyrians/chaldeans ask themselves everday; When will fellow christians from around the world take action and help us liberate/save ourselves from the treatcherous islamofascist claws? The world acted in 1947 they can do so again!
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