Mass. Considers Outlawing Spanking

Bill Sponsors Say Some Parents Go Too Far, Hope To Start Debate Setting Limits

(CBS/AP)  A bill that would prohibit parents from spanking their children is being criticized as unnecessary and unenforceable by many Massachusetts lawmakers.

The measure - being heard Wednesday by a legislative committee - defines corporal punishment as "the willful infliction of physical pain or injurious or humiliating treatment." State legislator Jay Kaufman said he submitted the bill at the request of nurse Kathleen Wolf.

"I could remember as a 10-year-old kid and being in a family where there was a lot corporal punishment and thinking, 'Why isn't anyone doing anything?'" Wolf told CBS station WBZ-TV.

"We need to have a serious public conversation, not about spanking - that's not what this is about - but where people cross the line and abuse their children," Kaufman told the station.

Several lawmakers counter that parents are best able to decide on discipline, and point out that state law already bans the physical abuse or neglect of children.

"This bill is really designed to begin a process of dialogue, a conversation about spanking, because I think our society is moving further away from physical violence as a solution to problems in general," psychologist Teresa Whitehurst, who helped Wolf draft the bill, said on CBS News' The Early Show.

"I would not use the word 'abuse,' because I think most parent who spank have a very good goal, which is setting limits and trying to get their children to have good values," Whitehurst said.

The state's highest court ruled in 1999 that parents could spank their children, so long as it doesn't cause serious bodily harm.

"There are always going to be some (parents) who use implements, such as belt, switches, sticks. I've seen extension cords used, that sort of thing," Whitehurst told Early Show co-anchor Russ Mitchell.

Some lawmakers question how police could possibly enforce such a ban. And some parents, reports WBZ's Dawn Hasbrouck, question whether the government should tell them where that line is and how they should raise their kids.

"The state has always had rights in this area" such as "child safety seats in cars," said Whitehurst. "We're not saying parents can't make choices. We're just saying let's move toward nonviolent methods."

The legislature has ended formal sessions for 2007, so the earliest the bill could be debated would be next year.

[kindrox]

"I could remember as a 10-year-old kid and being in a family where there was a lot corporal punishment and thinking, *Why isn''t anyone doing anything?*"

OMG the inmates are running the asylum!

Next lets pass a law that forbids parents from denying their kids video games, designer jeans and junk food. After all I am sure there are kids out there feeling quite put out about not having these items.

What the h*ll is wrong with you MA voters?

[rational_1]

"Spare the rod and spoil the child"

Sometimes there is a place for corporal punishment. Beating the *** out of your kid and giving him a spanking are two entirely different things. Dumb-a$$ move MA. Get ready for more out-of-control kids shooting up your schools.

[lochlan-2009]

Massachusetts declares that all children belong to the government, and the way discipline, beliefs and knowledge instilled in the children will be decided by them.

As a runner on the bill; in addition to mandatory insurance, it will now be mandatory that you buy a gallon of milk & eggs, every day. You will also buy a flat panel HDTV and new computer and be hooked to the internet at all times.
*This list of mandatory purchases is subject to further increases.

[xlib]

No intrusion on our daily lives by the left, nope none at all. Now, let''s see, we have the eating police, thought police, don''t even THINK about certain things police, now this. So, lefties, tell me again how the right has intruded on your lives??

[connapa]

The public school system employs various methods to educate children as to what is and is not appropriate- both physical abuse and sexual abuse. Instances such as those described by Ms. Wolf are detected more readily these days. Children are encouraged to report it, and when they do, the teacher is REQUIRED to report those concerns to the proper authorities. Granted, some children these days do fall through the cracks in the current system. Its better to fill the cracks than try to reinvent the wheel.

[extremophil]

What will the S&M adults do if they can''t spank anymore?

[antoniof123]

"I could remember as a 10-year-old kid and being in a family where there was a lot corporal punishment and thinking, ''Why isn''t anyone doing anything?''" Wolf told CBS station WBZ-TV.

I remember being a 10-year-old and being beating a lot too. The only difference between you Wolf and me is that I know I got what I deserved. In fact my parents were kind because I deserved a whole lot more than I got.

Say it but if MA wants this that that is their choice not yours so stow it because if you are not in MA you have no say.

[antoniof123]

Posted by Xlib at 09:50 AM : Nov 28, 2007

And Xlib you are intruding on Democracy because it is their right that is the true Republican way. Of course the new Republicans just want it their way. This is not Burger King it is America and I am sick and tired of you nut cases that have destroyed the Republican party.

If you don''t live in MA it is not of your business nut case.

[hissteps4u]

It ma be true that some parents cross the line and cause irreparable harm to children out of anger when they whip their children but the Government can not legislate this or if they do we will plummet as a society.

Spare the rod spoil the child is a fare scenario and while I remember spanking my children twenty five years ago and at least once out of anger did I give them black and Blue Behind they turned out just fine knowing Right from wrong and becoming responsible adults

If parents abuse the children fine step in but frankly abuse s not a black and blue behind from a spanking and correcting a child and setting limits and enforcing those limits

[toolmangler-2009]

I am 100% against child abuse and will punch out a person I see abusing one, My parents physically punished me for major offenses and used timeout and other measures for minor ones but every offense had its punishmennt without fail and if I was punished at school for something they would verify the reason for it and then punish me again after I got home. (didn''''t get away with much but I tried ;))
I am thankful for every stripe I received (with a slim switch) on my bare legs as a child. (but you know, there isn''t a single scar there now) I still can feel them (the spankings) well over sixty some years later when I try to remember them. If todays children were taught the way I was (and all my friends also) there would be no need for metal detectors in the schools and other places. Street gangs would only exist in large cities not in rural America, and most small town homes would still have unlocked doors. Drugs would be something that only happened in far away places and no child would ever sass an adult. (or walk around with their pants down around the knees) Oh well, if wishes was fishes......

[mgdvt]

Massachusetts lawmakers need a spanking for this!

[mgdvt]

Massachusetts lawmakers deserve a spanking for this!

[jsaindon]

There goes America. Going to be a bunch of outt of control ******* who try to tell everyone else what to do. I''ll be damned if anyone tells me how to raise a kid. I don''t have any but this is just rediculous. What is a punishment then that a child will understand? All they respond to is a good paddling across the behind. They will think twice before doing said "wrong" again. Is Mass. really that liberal? Whats next, making certain words illegal? Oh wait.......

[downtowner97]

Two guys in a cell:

First guy - "I raped 16 girls, what are you in for?"
Second guy - "I spanked my son for knocking down his sister."

By the way, they want to make hugging illegal too.

[kindrox]

Outlaw spanking and only outlaws will spank?

[rushman71]

Whats next, making certain words illegal? Oh wait....... Posted by jsaindon

Uhhh, yeah, the "N" word!!! No pun intended...

[rushman71]

By the way, they want to make hugging illegal too.
Posted by downtowner97

That kind of reminds me, remember back in the good ol'' days, playing "Your It!!!", and kids would run away from whoever that person was who was "it". Today, in certain places around the US, you can''t even touch without getting punished!!! This country is going WAAYYYY overboard on certain rules!!!

[carlylaine]

antoniof123

We do have a right to be concerned about this spanking law whether we live in California, Florida or anywhere in between. Once that domino falls all the dominos fall, eventually.

[yongamerica]

What goes on in the bedroom of two consenting adults is no business of the governments. Even the judges will have to put the handcuffs on themselves for saying "You''ve been a bad girl, time for your spanking."

[justfacts2]

A swat on the behind, with their pants on, does NOT harm a child! I don''t care what you half-a$$ hippie liberals say! I got my share of spankings when I was a kid and it didn''t make me a violent person. Please stop confusing beatings with spankings. A spanking is when a parent, after having exhausted all other forms of discipline first, takes their hand and swats the behind of a child with their clothes on. They do NOT use anything else. If they use a paddle, a belt, or anything other than a hand, then yes that is a beating! I think people are getting the two confused and they couldn''t any further from the same. Beatings should be outlawed; spanking should not!

[mediamomma]

I don''t live in MA but let me say this. First, MA started a no smoking ban in bars. It spread and is now in however many other states. I used to smoke but don''t anymore but still, everyone has rights. They took away civil liberties that we as a nation had the right to. Now they are trying to ban parents from disciplining their kids. If this bill passes in MA, other states will follow and that''s wrong. I spanked my kid and she is a better person for it. She knows there are limitations. I was spanked and didn''t turn into a mass murderer. I was also, unfortunately, abused as a kid but thank goodness (being p.c. for the athiests out there) I learned from the abuse and didn''t turn out like that. I never once laid a hand on my kid in anger and never beat my kid. Spanking and all out punching are two completely very different things. If this law goes through in MA the rest of the country will follow suit. We as a nation will no longer have rights. This country is no longer a democracy. We the people do not have a say as to how it''s run any more. We are losing our rights one by one. Hasn''t anyone noticed or doesn''t anyone care?

[slim1h2o]

Make way for more foul mouthed bratty, punk kids coming out of MA. We have enough of those types in NC.

[kindrox]

Remember, the proposed law also would make illegal *humiliating treatment*. So I guess that would be whatever the child finds humiliating. So if you dress your child in a *humiliating* way, if you dress yourself in a *humiliating* way, if your child has less than the Jones next door, and thus your child feels *humiliated*, all of these would be illegal.

I wonder if the law cares about the age of the child? Maybe I can get my mother put in jail for all those *humiliating* stories she told my wife about my childhood? Perhapes I have judged the proposed law too quickly . . .

[dan9111]

The problem with the feminist-led outrage against protecting children is that is strong with the typical smell of hypocrisy.

Feminists are the first to rightly point out the vile nature of wife beating. Yet they gladly dish out identical violence to their children. Try this experiment: Go up to a feminist who says "spanking kids is OK" and proceed to slap her where it counts. I guarantee, the response will not be one of approval.

The anger against protecting children always represents one thing: hatred. It can be nothing else, unless one is crazy enough to want to reverse spousal abuse laws too. Only a nonviolent family is a legitimate one. The angry thugs who are posting otherwise seem so angry because they know they can''t brush off the truth very easily. Let them rot in their personal world of anger.

[Scooter68]

Only thing even slightly surprising about this is that Mass. broke out of the gate with this idea first in front of Calif. What is it about these states on the coasts? California, Massachussetts, Oregon, and Washington - they keep coming up with the whacked ideas/laws. ''Thanksgiving should be a time of mourning.'' Don''t spank your kid, no hugging etc. How sick! I lived under the threat of spanking, only remember getting one but the point was made and I wasn''t ''hurt'' by it.

[appls2orngs]

'' .. welcome to heaven, thou shalt not hold hands and weave bouquets with little naked promiscuous girls playing first aid on the trail, beat their sorry butts and call the angels to whisk them back to hell .. ''

'' .. i saw an old music video recently, and thought it was so perfect except there were no sick beds and no infinite free food and free medicine and free infinite wishes come true .. ''

'' .. give away 19.5 billion veggie burgers / night, be visited by everyone, rake in tips donations volunteers for operations and sub let operations .. more practically, give 165 or 16500 veg burgs with five others, rake in quarters & dollars & song dance skit kit .. ''

'' .. eternity says, heres the nukes you ordered joanna, you break all my bones while i scream on the outside giggle on inside, then you play eternity i''ll play joana & you break my bones while i scream on outside giggle on inside .. ''

'' .. troops, one day there will be peace and prosperity and why why why, till then, let''s forego rest and comfort to pump trillions into baby raping war for the salvation of huvanity .. ''

'' .. you tell all eternity theres no free infinite wishes come true, no you tell all eternity theres no free infinite wishes come true .. ''

[robjk1-2009]

Lock me up! I spank mine with a belt. Works great, they are usually are immediately converted.

[realpatriot1]

Wait til the hookers in the Combat Zone hear about this, they''ll be demonstrating at the State House!

[kindrox]

Who is against protecting children? You do not love your children if you don%u2019t effectively discipline them. I was spanked as a child. Not every day, but for good reason. Thank god I was.

Of course as a child you don%u2019t like it. Duh! The child is not supposed to like it. But then you grow up and you learn that as a child, wrongs are sometimes punished with a spanking, then life goes on. As an adult, wrongs are punished with jail time, broken families, lost jobs, ect.

Teach your children to control themselves while they are young, even if you have to spank them. Adult *spankings* are much harder to recover from.

[Scooter68]

Too bad Dan9111 doesn''t get it that it is the responsibility of parents to set an example in the treatment of others. Children have to be taught right from wrong. There is a big difference between 2-3 swats on a childs bottom and a man or woman using their spouse as a punching bag. That''t the point, "parents" have gotten lazy and won''t take the time to explain things to there children so they want a quick fix to every situation. Spankings should be rare and used as the last resort. Other options are available for most problems but we have a generation that has lost their way in parenting. They have had poor examples of parents and therefore have lost the concept of parental responsibility. Therefore the state thinks it should step in an takeover. Like we want our children rasied by the people operate our cities - you know the ones with corrupted officials, and mindless politicians who vote based on who contributes to their campaign.

[misands]

This is just more proof that the Liberals/Democrats are a disaster and are out-of-control. I''m glad I live in the South because we would never entertain that crazy idea down here. If we get a Hillary or even Giuliani, and I bet we see crazy laws like this passed on the Federal level. Parents will have to raise their children the way liberals tell them to. No more punishment for bad behavior, no more teaching values, no more games like tag because the liberals will say it hurts the kids feelings, and of course no more teaching your children about the Lord because the liberals really hate that.
People really should take a closer look a Fred Thompson because he really reflects the true values of most of the American people, and I know he would never approve any crazy laws like the one being proposed in Massachusetts.

[dan9111]

Children and adults all must learn right from wrong. Just not way of violence. Whomever beats their spouse for wrongdoing is wrong also. No different for parents who "spank". If your so-called spanking is nonviolent, then you head over to your NOW chapter and slap them all on the buttocks. Tell them how caring you are.

Children are warped by not learning consequences, yes we all agree. But a wave of feminists, entitled to cheat on their husbands, steal every penny they have, somehow are "spank-proof" by every avenue. Where should they learn conseqences? What about their children, who these feminist single-moms are beating into the next family cycle of violence? A corrupt parent can teach a child nothing except further corruption, whether "spanked" it''s into them or not.

Condemn violent parents and we all give the world a wonderful gift: a world with better parents. If you are against that, then you are only shielding your own parents and your own psyche from the truth.

[williamfold]

there is something fundamentally wrong with the law makers in this country. with the way government is slowly taking away civil liberties and trying to control every part of our lives, right down to what we eat, it''s no longer hard to see books like "This Perfect Day" becoming real. how sad.

[missingamerica]

What an asinine idea.

For instance, if one of my children had shown a tendency to dart out into the street, I''d have swatted them without a second thought.

Beats heck out of a lovely gravestone with an inscription along the lines of "For want of corporeal punishment I have left the corporeal realm".

[excoachken]

Ms. Wolf should just take care of her own issues and let the rest of the world decide for themselves what is or isn''t appropriate in their own house. Her approach is what has lead to the total lack of discipline among today''s youth. If you don''t believe me, go to any public school or even a local mall and ask the misbehaving morons if their parents spanked them and you will get a resounding "No!" just before they spit in your face.

You can bet this law will help create a new generation of
''cop killers'': no respect for authority or for right and wrong. We have a huge upswing in people who who aren''t afraid to blow policemen away. We are reaping the whirlwind of ''child protective,''that has been so strong since the 1980''s. Americans now have a terrible leadership among world nations in violence.
I am normally a %u2018lib%u2019 on most social issues, but. I believe the Bible when it says, ''raise up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it''...and somewhere else %u201Cif you discipline a child (with a spanking)he will not die and you will save his(her) soul from destruction (not an exact quote)."

A parent can%u2019t be made submissive to the child and never ''lower the child''s self esteem'' by discipline, or telling the child the truth. Nobody is talking about child abuse; we%u2019re talking about judiciously applied correction. Maybe those who passed this law should have been spanked more as children, they might not have turned into the high-handed people they are today if they had been taught correctly.

[libsluvsuvs]

there you go folks in about a few years when we see an influx of ''youth'' crimes..and you decide to say ''where are the parents?"

well guess you played a major role in taking a parent''s right to discipline its children..

liberals are so misguided!!

[displeased]

If the government wants to outlaw spanking, then they can be responsible for the consequences of the uncontrollable juvenile delinquents that they''ll be creating.

There is a difference between abuse and spanking. People who abuse should definitely be punished. In fact, it would be nice to have a method to prevent abusers from having children to begin with.

[dan9111]

It''s amazing the twisted attempts to defend one''s personal history. There is everything to gain by condemning these bad parents.

The laws, as they stand, permit hitting a child when there was no wrongdoing at all. If a person is against this proposed law, then it must be true they favor such immoral punishment. Why favor non-punishment of immoral parents? If anyone is going too far, it is those who think bad parents can somehow make good children, just because of the magic of "spanking". Judge these parents now, and they will go away.

Misands: You wrote that this is a consequence of northern liberals and thank God the South doesn''t have crazy people passing laws like this (parphrase)
Sorry to bust your bubble, but this isn''t just a liberal idea. A lot of children of right-wingers, yes, even those from the south, are also out of control. Look at all the cold blooded killers who come from south of the Mason-Dixon line. Don''t confuse the issue. Whatever a person''s political beliefs, right and wrong should be a constant. I guess GW Bush''s mom should have spanked him more. Maybe he wouldn''t have turned out to be a war-monger, a serial liar and an intransigent, bad president, like he is today. Child discipline knows no political labels.You right wingers have some awful people among y''all too.

[tyjohn47]

Don''t do it! I''ll admit, I lean to the left politically but outlawing spanking takes away a parenting tool that is VERY effective when used correctly. You cant legislate this kind of stuff. You just cant.

[rangerdahl]

does that include fetishes?

[fabdenise]

Kathleen Wolfe must of been brought up in another country because I have never heard of corporal punishment in family homes here in the United States. When I was a child, I deserved mild punishment to make sure the incident would not happen again. And IT DIDN''T. I am not taking about a constant spanking, just a little slap on the hand or bottom. Look at the poor teachers in the schools right now--they can''t control the children because the parents don''t do it at home..if this law passes, the whole country will suffer. Children will know that they can get away with whatever they can. All you have to do is look back at what happened when children were allowed to divorce their parents..I rest my case. I''m so thankful that I don''t have small children right now. My child is 33 years old and has a great deal of respect for life and other people because of her upbringing. I hope this law does not pass for the sake of other parents.

[jetranger7]

Good-Great- I always wanted to be able to "HIT" my 1st politician, instead of Spank em'' I prefer Hitting, especialy using a baseball bat ! OK to hit, just not spank, I get it !

[mediamomma]

Hey, Dan9111 - I am not a bad parent because I spanked my child. You must not have children yourself. If you did, you would understand. Sometimes a spanking goes a long way. It is justifiable. The government has zero right to tell us how to raise our kids - unless we are abusing them. And spanking is not abuse. Get a clue, dude.

[rohink-2009]

If you don''''t live in MA it is not of your business nut case.

Posted by antoniof123
~~~~~~~~~

Then why are you reading the article and why is CBS reporting on it nutcase? If it can happen in Maine it can happen in other states. Most bans have to start somewhere. Get a clue.

[ttomowens]

It has always amazed me that the one person a person can legally strike are the ones that most need our protection. Strike anyone but your child and it is a crime.

[johnstossel]

What about people that like to be spanked???

[FLWB]

There is a difference between spanking and abuse. A very big difference. My parents were divorced and my mother hit us almost daily. (with anything she had in her hands most was undeserved) My father on ther other hand spanked me once and it was one good open handed swat on the rump. That one I deserved. I never did it again and I''ll never forget how disappointed he looked when he had to do it. That stuck with me more than anything.

I''m tired of seeing parents these days negotiating and bribing children for better behavior. I see it almost every day in public. Children are no longer accountable for their actions and they grow up to be selfish adults.

[giord1la]

A swat on the rearend or a pop on the hand, does not hurt a child. I was spanked as a child, ( not often) but if I needed it and I thank my Mama and Dad everyday for the way they raised me. I have three beautiful children, they were spanked if needed, (not beaten). My children are not murderers, in gangs, and do not expect things to be handed to them on a silver platter. They are respectful, well rounded individuals. Spanking does not harm a child, beating does. There is a difference