Too Soon To See Iraq On The Big Screen?

Your Answer May Depend Upon Your Gender, Your Age And How You Feel About The War

(CBS)  In another era, Hollywood proudly went to war with the troops, but today, Hollywood has gone to war ... against the war.

In Brian de Palma's "Redacted", Americans rape and murder Iraqis and in Paul Haggis' "In the Valley of Elah", Tommy Lee Jones tries to unravel the mystery of his solder-son's death.

In "Rendition" the broader war on terror comes under fire, as an innocent is kidnapped and sent to be tortured in another country.

And in Robert Redford's "Lions for Lambs", Tom Cruise stars as a smooth talking US Senator trying to "sell" a new Afghanistan strategy to a reporter.

The timing of these films is dramatically different from those of the Vietnam-era like "The Deer Hunter" and "Apocalypse Now". Just about all of those appeared well after that war had peaked, some of them, years after.

A CBS News Poll released Friday showed that 61% of Americans say it is too soon for movies to be made about the current Iraq war, while a third think it is appropriate.

Men are more likely than women to say it is appropriate for Iraq war movies to be made and younger Americans are also more open to the idea of films being made about the Iraq war than are older people. When it comes to education, college graduates are the most likely of any education group to say it’s a suitable time for Iraq movies - 44% say it is.

There are partisan differences as well. While majorities of both Republicans and Democrats say it is too soon for Iraq war movies, 41% of Democrats view them as appropriate compared to just 24% of Republicans who do. 54% of self identified liberals think it is okay for movies about the Iraq war to be made - one of the few groups of which a majority says this. Only 16% of conservatives say they are appropriate.

Opinions of those in military households differ little from those of Americans overall. 58% of those with a family member in the military (not necessarily in Iraq) say it is too soon for Iraq war movies; 37% say they are appropriate.

Views on the appropriateness of Iraq war movies are impacted by one’s position on the Iraq war. Among Americans who think we should not have gone to war with Iraq, 38% believe it is an appropriate time for movies about Iraq. However, just 26% of those who think getting involved in Iraq was the right thing say movies about the current conflict are appropriate at this time.

As CBS News senior political correspondent Jeff Greenfield reports, the films' creators unsurprisingly believe that the timing of these releases is just right. For director Brian de Palma, the issue is the story that he says is NOT being told.

"Why are we afraid of these images?" de Palma asked, "Is somebody trying to keep us from seeing what we're actually doing?"

In fact so far, it's the audience that is keeping itself far away from these films. "In the Valley of Elah, which garnered very good reviews, earned less than $7 million. "Rendition" earned less than $10 million, and none of the others is approaching the status of a hit. It may be, Greenfield suggests, that the problem is as much with the subject as with any of these films.

Unlike during World War II, there is no united country in pursuit of a clear resolution. And with the Iraq war now having lasted longer than World War II, it may be that reality is more than enough for the movie-going public.

---

This CBS News poll was conducted among a random sample of 706 adults nationwide, interviewed by telephone September 14-16, 2007. The error due to sampling for results based on the entire sample could be plus or minus four percentage points. The error for subgroups is higher.

[tato_4x4]

you ****** commie-libruls wanna see AMerica go down the tubes so''s you kin stand in line fer a peece of bread like they dun in Rooshia you thank yer so smaret but ain''t cuz you wuz toght wrong by them collich perfessers who hate there Counrty Us of A.

[feelfree1]

Related:

Baghdad shaken by uptick in violence

By Seattle Times news services

BAGHDAD %u2014 The man walked into the crowded al-Ghazl animal market Friday, past police checkpoints and barricades, Humvees and Iraqi soldiers. A U.S. patrol had passed through the market an hour or so earlier. The man carried a bomb in a box containing birds, witnesses said.

The bomb detonated shortly after 9 a.m., killing 15 people and injuring 55, Iraqi police said.

"I saw people flying in the air and hitting the ground," said Fadhil Hussein, a bearded pushcart vendor. "Everyone was panicking. There was smoke everywhere. The sound was so loud that it hurt my ears. They still hurt."

The bombing was the deadliest in the capital since Sept. 9. Coupled with a south Baghdad firefight that left 18 people dead and a barrage of about 10 rockets or mortars in the U.S.-protected Green Zone a day earlier, fears were raised that the city''s relative calm has ended.

[nitsedy]

Are we to believe that "tato_4x4" is anything less than a poor attempt at mocking the position of those who disagree with the elite in Hollywood? If all that is left for the extreme left is a poor characterization of honest hard working Americans then it is clear that they have no argument at all.

Similarly, de Palma''s attempted appeal to conspiracy is disingenuous at best. It may be somewhat of a surprise to him that the majority of Americans simply do not want to see his overemphasis of the criminal acts of a few at the expense of the other 127,000 troops in Iraq. Perhaps we should start referring to all Hollywood members as wild-haired, drunken, lunatics who beat up women and murder them helplessly in their foyers.

[mcvet]

you ****** commie-libruls wanna see AMerica go down the tubes so''''s you kin stand in line fer a peece of bread like they dun in Rooshia you thank yer so smaret but ain''''t cuz you wuz toght wrong by them collich perfessers who hate there Counrty Us of A.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by tato_4x4 at 04:46 AM : Nov 24, 2007
+ report abuse

Yeah right!! You pathetic losers are the same regardless of Generations. You do know some stupid fake like you said the exact same things about Harry Truman don''t you? Hey if you hate Liberals so much why do you accept the freedoms they have made for you? It was a Liberal standing tall against people just like George Bush when your right to speak your mind was created you know. I think that King was named George as well. Sieg Heil Bush!

[brianbwb-2009]

Posted by nitsedy

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Kommunist.
Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.
Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Jude.
Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr,
der protestieren konnte.

-- Der Weg ins Freie, Martin NiemC6ller (F.M. Hellbach, Stuttgart, 1946)

For the Germanically challenged:

When the Nazis arrested the Communists,
I said nothing; I was not a Communist.
When they locked up the Social Democrats,
I said nothing; I was not a Social Democrat.
When they arrested the trade unionists,
I said nothing; I was not a trade unionist.
When they arrested the Jews,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Jew.
When they arrested me,
There was no longer anyone who could protest.

Some of us protest the Bush klan in this same spirit, especially since the disdain shown by those claiming to be "conservative" is directed at the same groups as those listed above (but this time including "Black" and other non European ethnicities), making them extremely similar to the Nazis. Our voice is raised against the repeat of one of the worst songs in world history, the first notes of which have already been sung.

[cbs_oliver]

Jeff Greenfield, being the clever fellow that he is, might have noted that the reviews of antiwar films by mainstream media critics tend to be insideously tepid.

Many reviewers have right wing credentials. After all they work for right wing organizations. Those reviewers often find fault with such movies - usually with production and acting aspects rather than content or political aspects. They generally recommend that the audience give it a pass or see it on DVD or something like that.

This influences the audience.

Now, lets talk about video games shall we!

You can kill Iraqis or Iranians or just generic Arabs and Muslims in any number of video games!

How would we think if an Arab or Muslim company produced a mirror concept game?

What does Jeff Greenfield have to say about that type of thing - and what it says about Americans?

[bobacorn]

I wonder - Is the death toll among the Iraqi people over 1,000,000 yet? Have all the ancient Iraqi Christians been killed yet? Have all the ancient treasures of Iraq been looted yet? Is that *** oil safe? I hope so, cuz at $100 a barrel we''re going to need as much as we can get to pay for the $1.2 trillion dollars we''ve wasted on this Bushit war.

[scottyusa]

These movies are nothing more than fodder for the terrorist propaganda. In the name of "anti war" hollywood degrades our troops who are still there fighting. Yes it is way too early.

[runningralph]

People should not get too worked up over movies. They are make believe, despite Mr.de Palma''s saying that "these images" ..."are what we are actually doing". Movies are contrived to present the director''s vision of reality. I haven''t seen this movie but I doubt that it says anything about the struggle between Islam and Western civilization. I did see "Deer Hunter" and "Apocalypse Now" neither of which said anything about the basic struggle between capitalism and communism.

[hungry1968]

"Are we to believe that "tato_4x4" is anything less than a poor attempt at mocking the position of those who disagree with the elite in Hollywood? If all that is left for the extreme left is a poor characterization of honest hard working Americans then it is clear that they have no argument at all."
Posted by nitsedy at 05:22 AM : Nov 24, 2007


No - we are seeing tato_4x4 as he really is. Most conservatives speak those exact same words comparing anyone that disagrees with the wholesale slaughter in Iraq, to nazi''s, communists, terrorist sympathizers, anti-American''s, etc, etc. The plain fact is that this country was built on liberal principles - we''re all created equal, no one is above anyone else, and we''re all guaranteed the same freedoms and liberties regardless of status or wealth.

Unfortunately, those principles have all been compromised in the name of "neo conservatism". It''s the truly ignorant like tato that still listen to the neo con diatribe on Fox News and take their propaganda for gospel on all political matters. "Drink Budweiser, have s*e*x with immediate family members and farm animals, and vote republican so we can sock it to those liberals!!"

[hungry1968]

These movies are nothing more than fodder for the terrorist propaganda. In the name of "anti war" hollywood degrades our troops who are still there fighting. Yes it is way too early.
Posted by scottyusa at 09:00 AM : Nov 24, 2007


Many people know nothing about the new "rendition" policy that America has. Probably because they''re too busy taking their obese kids to McDonalds for a number 2 value meal, (with a diet coke - of course), and watching "American Idol" to pay attention to what is going on with our ever so corrupt government. Maybe if they see the movie they''ll think twice. I doubt it, but maybe.

[scotty12342]

If a movie was relieved now I think it would make the news like a movie to. Its real blood, its real pain, its real misery, and poverty, its real mothers loosing sons and daughters, it maybe anti war but not anti American troops. After all they are being told what to do. Its More anti bush and Cheney

[ewr1947]

The movie going public is sick of Anti-American war films. The moviegoers do not need to be preached to by a left wing Hollywood. They should send in a new "Rambo" and watch the dollars pour in.

[rbrenegade]

Thank-you nitsedy! Maybe de Palma''s just mad because he didn''t make as much money as he wanted to. Or maybe the "real" Americans are too busy supporting their families who are fighting this war & not trying to make more millions to pay much attention or cannot afford to go sit in a movie theatre. After all it is the working class people who take on the burden of most wars, the military families who live below the poverty level, who live in substandard housing, many who rely on food stamps to get by on, & when a loved one dies serving their country are given 3 months to vacate their homes - some with 4 children & no place to go. Just for once I would love one of these movie moguls with their millions, an over paid politicial (of any party), a socially connected reporter, actors with their big mouths, all or any of these that spend most of their money outside of the US or on foreign made goods; to either tell BOTH sides of the story, go fight any war themselves or just go live somewhere else and see the real truth. I do not see any of them to be Americans.

[sandycat2]

"Why are we afraid of these images?" de Palma asked, "Is somebody trying to keep us from seeing what we''re actually doing?"
So De Palma would have us all believe that all US troops are raping and murdering girls and their families. Well, De palma''s movie was based on an actual rape and murder committed by a few US soldiers. In his film, the US military tried to cover the crime up, but in fact the military went after the rapists and murderers as soon as they learned about it and these criminals are in jail now. Some who have posted here, say Bush has lied. Well, De Palma is a liar also because most of US troops are not rapists and murderers as he is trying to get you to believe by watching his anti-American film. See, there are liars and propagandists on the left as well as the right. It''s a "Buyer Beware" atmosphere out their in the media and film industry. As my husband says since we suffered through that impossibly bad film, Farenheit 9/11, "I will not pay another Hollywood type to watch his film about his political views."

[fleiter-2009]

To the person who commented about Arab and Muslim video games in which they kill Americans. Those games do exist. They are all over the Web. They are just not mass marketed because the companies that make them do not have capital. Second, those Arabs and Muslims inclined to kill Americans/infidels of any stripe do not need video games to vent their anger. They just strap on bombs. Third, boycott all businesses owned by Mark Cuban, the owner of the company that produced and distributed "Redacted." This TRAITOR needs to be punished.

[flagship-usa]

Why are people so shocked? Our tribal warriors share a time honored tradition - to conquer, pillage and rape. All military enterprises, dating back to the beginning of time, engage in this barbaric practice. We need to recognize war for what it is. Why our government(s) are putting on a false faces of war, is just misleading. These are the acts of war, and we need to understand this, before we send our warriors into combat. We are a civilized race of ppl, so I''m told. War is not, can not, and will never be, an act of civility. I, for one, am a full believer of this horrific act, as long as we do what our father(s) before us did, this is in keeping with some unwritten ritual. War, can not be sanctioned, and purified by good intentions. The act of war, necessitates cruelty. War can not be won with: peace, love and handshakes.

This war in Iraq, is a disgrace to our service men, officers, and our nation. This is a pathetic war that needs to come to an end. Our hardened warriors; I admire wholly for their commitment to engage the ''enemy'', are shammed by the lack of diplomacy our leaders have shown. We/They have shipped our warriors off to war, and cut off there balls...peace keepers my ***. This is not what America trains warriors/soldiers to do. They are, and have always been, the finale solution...

- I have tried my best to server my country with pride and honor...you have done all you could to strip me of it -
mdc

[feelfree1]

Re: "Why are the military willing to stay in IF everything is as bad as CBS/ABC/NBC/NPR/PBS/CNN says it is?"

I think that the term for this is "brainwashing". We have also noticed widespread brain injuries and mental illness among those serving in the illegal war zones. this is another possible explanation.

Luckily, the U.S. military is finding it increasingly difficult to enlist cannon-fodder for the illegal wars.

I wonder what the U.S. military rank and file response will be, if/when they realize that "al-Qaeda-in-Iraq" is little more than a psy-ops ruse?

[fibonacci_]

I really do not think it is time to make movies about this conflict. I think it will make American society in general take it less seriously. In the years after the conflict has subsided I would have nothing against it though.

[hypnotoad72]

Because the movies might be sending the wrong message; inadvertently or otherwise.

No doubt a few soldiers will rape and pillage. They will be tried and caught for such vile behavior.

Unfortunately, some people read into a few articles and blow it out of proportion; in this case possibly thinking every soldier who signs up is out for sick self-gratification or who knows what else.

That''s the problem with fiction that''s loosely based on real life events.

"Redacted" is clearly disgusting, slanted propaganda fodder.

Addendums:

The "kill Americans" jihad video games do exist.

People are probably not enlisting because benefits are being cut and quite a few media people are promoting the concept "nobody owes anyone anything". So it''s no wonder nobody wants to die for that jerk on CNN or the one on FOX, or the ones on other networks who simply haven''t said it yet... (once again, the media upchucking inaccuracies and misleading concepts. Only from a different point of view.)

And a clarification: WW2, as the entire war, officially began in 1939. (The US involvement started in 1941, but that does not mean WW2 did not happen before we knocked on the door and said "Hi!"; so the Iraq war has not taken place longer than WW2.)

[feelfree1]

hypnotoad72,

Re: "No doubt a few soldiers will rape and pillage. They will be tried and caught for such vile behavior."

This has not been the case in Afghanistan and Iraq, however. The war crimes and abuses among our troops and other U.S. agents has been widespread and chronic, and very few of the offenders have been held to account, or have been given laughable sentences.

Usually just a few low level enlistees end up taking the blame for these abuses, while the military and civilian war criminals who perpetuate this shameful and criminal behavior, get promoted.

We all look forward to more discarded Generals like Sanchez stepping up to throw the regime officials and lackeys under the bus.

[jcr103]

Most Americans don''t want to honestly grapple with the pros and cons of the Iraq war. They just want to be entertained into a stupor. Most attempts to deal with the complexities of the Iraq war are automatically labeled as "anti-American" by the idiot fringe.

[rowdytexan2]

Posted by TheGateway1 at 04:33 PM : Nov 24, 2007

We already won the war!!!! We won it several weeks after we went over there!!! There is no WAR, only occupation!!! THERE''S NOT ONE *** THING TO LOSE OVER THERE EXCEPT MORE SOLDIERS! It''s time to bring them home and let those people get on with organizing their country.

And all the posturing and and posing by Mr. Bush and Cheney and their false war on terrorism just doesn''t count anymore.

DON''T YOU PEOPLE GET IT???