Senate Panel Rejects Telecom Immunity

House Spying Bill Advances, As Court Says "State Secrets" Block Key Evidence In Lawsuit

(CBS/AP)  The document, described by those who have seen it as a National Security Administration log of calls intercepted between the now-defunct Al-Haramain and its American lawyers, was accidentally turned over to Al-Haramain's lawyers by the U.S. Treasury Department.

Al-Haramain, which was labeled by the U.S. government as a terrorist organization, alleged the document proved it had been illegally wiretapped without a warrant.

But without the document, the court said, the foundation has little proof it was wiretapped and therefore can't sue.

The charity's lawyers voluntarily turned over the document to FBI agents after the mistake was discovered. But a lower court ruled that the lawyers couldn't use the actual document to support their lawsuit but could use their memories of its contents to go forward.

The appeals court said that ruling was "a commendable effort to thread the needle," but still ran counter to the state secrets law, which precludes the disclosure of sensitive information in court that could jeopardize national security.

"Such an approach countenances a back door around the privilege and would eviscerate the state secret itself," Judge M. Margaret McKeown wrote for the unanimous three-judge panel. "Once properly invoked and judicially blessed, the state secrets privilege is not a half-way proposition."

But the appeals court did keep the lawsuit alive, if barely, by sending the lawsuit back to a trial court in Portland, Ore., to determine if the law governing the wiretapping of suspected terrorists trumps the state secrets law.

The charity had also argued that warrantless eavesdropping of telephone conversations between its directors and lawyers violated FISA.

The appeals court said that "the FISA issue remains central to Al-Haramain's ability to proceed with this lawsuit."

The court has yet to rule on a related lawsuit that broadly challenges the Bush administration's warrantless wiretapping program.

[b-easy63]

It is amazing, but perhaps not surprising, that apparently none of the companies said: Where is your FISA warrant?

Posted by LawyerTom1 at 06:56 PM : Nov 16, 2007


One company did say that and refused to participate. They were called Qwest. Remember them? Remember what happened to the principles of Qwest? When he went to court the President of Qwest wanted to introduce threats and info from the gov. into his defense but the government declared it a national security.

This is what happens when companies try not to give in to rogue Presidents and circumvention of the law. They get s.c.r.e.w.e.d. and most of us do not even protest the demise of those who fought against them.

[b-easy63]

When companies agreed to help Bush--they were breaking the law and knew they were breaking the law. Not only should they not be granted immunity, but any case brought civilly should also have the government as defendant and the government must establish behind closed doors that the information requested in the law suit specifically applies to the suit and that info is really national security.

if Bush was having an affair, I have no doubt, he''d claim any info about it was national security--it is just a by word to hide acts--some legal, some illegal, but all a secret as far as the criminals involved are concerned. At some point, even Republicans must begin to hold this man and his admin. accountable.

[undermyboot]

The first modern "State Secrets" claim was used to hide federal government wrongdoing, not to protect "secrets". The first modern use was in 1953 to block attempts by family members to find out what happened to the crew of a crashed B-29 bomber. The government claimed that revealing anything about the accident would endanger national security and reveal a "top secret mission". The Supreme Court allowed the government to bury the information, and thereby established the "State Secrets" precedent. The families never got the truth.

In 2000, ALL of the information in this case was released. It revealed all claims of "national security" were fraudulent. There was NO SECRET INFORMATION. However, there WAS information that revealed the crash was caused by GOVERNMENT WRONGDOING, which would have been embarrassing to the President. This was the real reason the information was kept from the American People.

The idea of "State Secrets" is completely un-American. It was NOT a law passed by Congress. It was created by the 1953 Supreme Court ruling (where are the "Strict Constructionists" to decry "judicial activism" on this one?). "State Secrets" use has exploded in the last 5 years. It allows the President & his people to hide the truth forever and hide their crimes. This is not what our country stands for. Americans need to wake up and fight to eliminate "State Secrets" through legislation and litigation.

[toolmangler-2009]

This entire administration should be brought up on charges of treason.
Posted by trillion1 at 07:52 AM : Nov 17, 2007


I agree, 100%

[tylenol6]

If your pretty well fed up with the republicans and
democrats, google, RON PAUL. He is running for President. He is the democrats and republicans WORST
NIGHTMARE. Read what RON PAUL stands for. The news media does not want the american people to know about him. That is why they don''t want to report about him. THEY FEAR HIM.......LOOK HIM UP.....

[tylenol6]

I had heard these telecom companies gave big money to
Mr. Rockefellers campaign. I guess one hand washes the
other. I think our IDIOTS in congress will eventually
give in to Bush.....THEY ALWAYS DO!!!!!!!! THAT''S OUR
IDIOTS FOR YOU....

[undermyboot]

The King and his court demand more power. Today they say, "Let us violate the 4th Amendment at our whim, and let us use telecom companies to do our illegal bidding. Make it so no one can question our power to do whatever we want." They claim it is needed to make you safe. They say that liberty is an illusion and freedom is the enemy of safety. The dumocrats bend over and spread their cheeks for the King. The country heads toward fascism and dictatorship. The Congress applauds this. The King claims unlimited power is his divine right. The people follow blindly. The press is silent. The Party mouthpiece Faux News supplants the truth with lies and calls it "fair and balanced". "Truth" is redefined by the King and his sycophants to be whatever they say. Behind the scenes the last vestiges of the Constitution are burned under a veil of "national security" and "State Secrets", and the population applauds the end of liberty as if it were a victory. The monkeys howl their success. The founders of the USA roll over in their graves one last time. The Republic is lost.

[undermyboot]

And now this story has been buried within 12 hours by CBS. Get your guns people. Hide them where the coming Gestapo will not find them. The fruits of liberty are always bathed in the blood of patriots who fight and die so that the rest may be free. A second American Revolution is inevitable. With power hungry despots like the Republicons and incompetent corrupt buffoons like the Dumocrats, there will be no other way to restore the PEOPLE''S liberty.

[micma-2009]

Bu$h knows he broke the law and wiped his @ss with the Constitution and that''s why he wants to pass a law that retroactively makes what he and the telecoms did legal.

[shaggydaddy1]

I used to believe in our Democratic government, but it seems that our government leaders are slowly taking away our democratic rights.

[rowdytexan2]

Do not grant these companies immunity! It''s Mr. Bush trying to cover his behind for illegal acts!

Geezus, don''t send him another piece of legislation to pass, except what it takes to run this government for the next 15 months, and enough to bring our troops home.

This man is a treasonist murderer! DON''T ANY OF YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT?

[jjp735i]

It''s really simple. If they did not break the law, why do they need immunity? Because Bush and friends broke the law and they are trying to cover their behinds and Congress will sooner or later allow them to do so by giving into Bush and granting immunity.

This Congress is a total failure and we the people are at a loss as to what to do. Who do we vote for? It''s always pretty much the same people running with special interest money. A freash face stands little chance in most states now a days.

[trillion1]

This entire administration should be brought up on charges of treason.

[undermyboot]

The very first "State Secrets" claim was used to hide federal government wrongdoing, not to protect "secrets". "State Secrets" first modern use was in 1953 to block attempts by family members to find out what happened to the crew of a crashed B-29 bomber. The government claimed that revealing anything about the accident would endanger national security and reveal a "top secret mission". The Supreme Court allowed the government to bury the information, and thereby established the "State Secrets" precedent. The families never got the truth.

In 2000, ALL of the information in this case was released. It revealed all claims of "national security" were fraudulent. There was NO SECRET INFORMATION. However, there WAS information that would have revealed the crash was caused by GOVERNMENT WRONGDOING, which would have been embarrassing to the President. This was the real reason the information was kept from the American People.

The idea of "State Secrets" is completely un-American. It was NOT a law passed by Congress. It was created by the 1953 Supreme Court ruling (where are the "Strict Constructionists" to decry "judicial activism" on this one?). "State Secrets" use has exploded in the last 5 years. It allows the President & his people to hide the truth forever and hide their crimes. This is not what our country stands for. Americans need to wake up and fight to eliminate "State Secrets" through legislation and litigation.

[undermyboot]

Today, the one powerful man and his subordinates can destroy your life without any any recourse to stop them.

They can put you in jail forever- without an attorney, or even without admitting they have you in jail. They can confiscate all your property. They can bear false witness. They can get you fired from your job. They can slander and spread lies about you. They can put a camera in your bedroom. They can obtain every bit of personal information about your life. They can search and tear up your home. they can take away your children. They can kill you at their whim.

They can do all of these things even though they violate every principle of American Constitution and the rule of law. How? Simply by two very dangerous words, "State Secret". With "State Secret" there is no obscenity against the Constitution, our laws, or individual Americans that cannot be committed. They can do whatever they want because, simply by uttering these magic words, the Congress, the Courts, and the People become powerless.

Americans fought to be free of this despotic power 230 years ago. We fought for a Constitution and law that stood above any man of power. We fought to protect the individual from the fist of oppressive government. We created the greatest documents ever conceived to establish a government ruled by the people. Now all of that is trumped by the odious words "State Secret" and a new King that wields them.

[undermyboot]

We are being told that all will be well if we simply give up our liberty and American Principle piece-by-piece. Today it seems like a little loss of liberty, a little more tolerance of unnecessary government secrecy will never lead to despotism. However, many great Americans understood that this is a path that leads to the end of the American Dream. It is a path that without fail leads to despotism and authoritarian government.

As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
-Justice William O. Douglas

"The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes." -- Thomas Paine

"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of freedoms of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison

[undermyboot]

Even those who do not call themselves conservatives must acknowledge the power and enduring value of core conservative beliefs: belief in individual agency and responsibility, respect for American institutions and traditions, a resolute commitment to freedom, a willingness to take principled moral stands. It is a movement that draws its inspiration from towering figures: Adam Smith, Thomas Jefferson, Edmund Burke. It stands for caution in foreign adventures, fiscal sobriety and a profound respect for tradition.

Or at least it used to stand for those things. Today''s conservatism is a caricature of that movement: It embraces pointless wars, runs up a vast debt, and trashes the Constitution. Selling out their principles for power, abandoning deeply seated American values and traditions simply because someone on "their side" demanded that they do so, conservatives have made a deal with the devil that has reduced their movement to an empty, ends-obsessed shell. How did the party of Lincoln end up marching under the banner of Tom DeLay and Rush Limbaugh, *** Cheney and Ann Coulter?

[undermyboot]

Bush declared that habeas corpus, a magnificent cornerstone of Western law, did not apply to those he designated, without judicial review, "enemy combatants." He claimed the right to lock those individuals up forever, without allowing them to bring their case before a jury. He made torture official U.S. policy, while disingenuously saying "my administration does not torture". His approval of warrantless wiretapping constitutes perhaps the most serious frontal attack on the right of privacy enshrined in the Fourth Amendment in American history. He has made unprecedented use of "signing statements" to disobey laws he disagrees with, marginalizing Congress in the process. His radical theory of the "unitary executive" runs roughshod over the balance-of-powers doctrine that has guided American governance since the Founders.

These Bush policies all represent a direct assault on the U.S. Constitution, long-established legal and political traditions, and accepted American values -- in short, on the heart and soul of American civic life. If American conservatism will not take its stand in defense of these things, what will it take a stand for?

[undermyboot]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

For 218 years the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution has stood. Now Bush and his traitors want to "redefine" what ".. to be secure..." and "no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause ..." mean.

Bush & his traitorous cadre follow the philosophy of the disgraced "Federalists" of the 1700''s who WANTED A KING IN AMERICA. They believed the "general population" could not be trusted & must be controlled by an iron hand. Today, Bush''s supporters push for unlimited Presidential power under the concept of "unitary executive"- code for the "KING" these modern Federalists dream of. Their "King" has unlimited power: warrantless surveillance of all Americans, secret DOJ "memos" claiming Bush need not follow the law or Constitution, refusal of oversight, using tax $ to push their political power agenda, suppressing dissent, no accountability, shredding Habeas Corpus for Americans, claiming no limits on their power in an endless "wartime", and more.

These are not patriots or conservatives. They want radical constitutional change, and massive government control over Americans by one party & an all-powerful "President". They must be stopped.

[undermyboot]

"State Secrets" claims have been nothing but a lie from the beginning. It has been used to hide crimes of government officials and elected representatives from the very first use.

The first use was to block the attempts of family members to find out what happened to the crew of a bomber lost in on a training mission back in the 1950''s. The government claimed that revealing anything about the accident would endanger the country and reveal "vital secrets". 40 years later the "secret" information became public. Everyone - EVERYONE- who reads these documents agrees that there were no secrets or danger to America in the documents. Instead- it revealed wrongdoing by the government.

Like today- the primary use of State Secrets claims is to hide the wrongdoing of the government from the people. It is completely un-American to allow one branch of government the power hide the truth and protect their own crimes. this is not what our country stands for. It is a black mark on the USA and "Government by the people".