Evidence Of Injustice

FBI's Bullet Lead Analysis Used Flawed Science To Convict Hundreds Of Defendants

(CBS)  This segment was originally broadcast on Nov. 18, 2007. It was updated on Sept. 12, 2008.

Aside from eyewitness testimony, some of the most believable evidence presented in criminal cases in the United States comes from the FBI crime laboratory in Quantico, Va. Part of its job is to test and analyze everything from ballistics to DNA for state and local prosecutors around the country, introducing scientific credibility to often murky cases.

But a six-month investigation by 60 Minutes and The Washington Post last November showed that there are hundreds of defendants imprisoned around the country who were convicted with the help of a now discredited forensic tool, and that the FBI never notified them, their lawyers, or the courts, that the their cases may have been affected by faulty testimony.

The science, called bullet lead analysis, was used by the FBI for 40 years in thousands of cases, and some of the people it helped put in jail may be innocent.

As correspondent Steve Kroft reports, one of them is Lee Wayne Hunt, who is now serving a life sentence for murder in North Carolina.

---

Lee Wayne Hunt tells Kroft he's been behind bars for over 22 years and 6 months, and maintains he's an innocent man. "What I've said from the word get go that I ain't -- never killed nobody. I didn't have nothing to do with this," he says.

Hunt was convicted in 1986 of murdering two people in Fayetteville, N.C., based on the testimony of two questionable witnesses and what turned out to be erroneous ballistics testimony from the FBI lab.

For years, the FBI believed that lead in bullets had unique chemical signatures, and that by breaking them down and analyzing them, it was possible to match bullets, not only to a single batch of ammunition coming out of a factory, but to a single box of bullets. And that is what the FBI did in the case of Lee Wayne Hunt, tying a bullet fragment found where the murders took place to a box of bullets the prosecutors linked to Hunt.

"I put it exactly the way it sounded to me, and the way that I believe it to be," Hunt says. "He said that this box of bullets is the same box of bullets that was used to kill these people, made on, about the same time."

"I think everybody in the courtroom assumed that this was valid evidence," says Hunt's attorney, Richard Rosen.

Asked how important he thinks this was to his client's conviction, Rosen says, "I thought it was very important to our client's conviction. It was the single piece of physical evidence corroborating their story. And it came from, you know, it came from the mountaintop."

The FBI first used bullet lead analysis while investigating the assassination of John F. Kennedy, trying to match pieces of bullets discovered at Dealey Plaza with bullets found in Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle.

By the 1980's, the FBI was routinely using this analysis to link bullet fragments found at a crime scene with bullets found in the possession of a suspect, almost always in cases where more reliable ballistics tests were impossible.

"And could you run like a standard ballistics test on this?" Kroft asks William Tobin, a former chief metallurgist for the FBI.

"No," Tobin says. "They're too deformed for the conventional ballistics examinations."

Tobin says the Quantico lab was the only place in the country that did bullet lead analysis, and the assertion that you could actually match a bullet fragment to a specific batch or box of bullets went unchallenged for 40 years -- until Tobin retired in 1998 and decided to do his own study, discovering that the basic premise had never actually been scientifically tested.

"FBI lab personnel testified that you could match these fragments to this bullet," Kroft remarks.

"Yes, that's correct," Tobin says.

Asked what he found out, Tobin tells Kroft, "It hadn't been based on science at all, but rather had been based on subjective belief for over four decades."

"So what you're saying is that this is junk science?" Kroft asks.

"That's correct," Tobin says. "It's worthless as a forensic tool."

[azmb]

Why should this be news? The FBI needs to be reigned in to chasing credit card thieves. I''ve had 2 chances to deal with the FBI. The first time, as a witness, the agent conducting the interview clearly had an agenda, and kept asking leading questions desiring a specific response. I finally had to tell him what he was missing and why I wouldn''t tell him what he wanted to hear.

The second time, while working on a sensitive project as a government contractor, I discussed a particular information collections problem with them. To one question the agent replied that they "didn''t need a warrant (for wiretapping) if they were''nt going to court." So much for the Constitution, as this was well before the Patriot Act.

After seeing your report, only God has a clue as to their current injustices. Way to go CBS and WP!

[thegov1945]

I find that the defense lawyers in these cases dropped the ball bigtime. I am not as learned as these lawyers but know that when ammunition is made there are many different lots that go into each box. I hope they can sleep nights because I wouldn''t be able to.

[antoniof123]

Why does this not suprise me.

[quest2bheard]

This is a minor %u2018false conviction%u2019 compared to the intentional obstruction of justice/-perjured testimony by the police in my case to get a conviction, see www.aQuest2Bheard.com

[gordon_geeko]

The FBI is a product of the era in which it was created. Their primary mission was to identify and disrupt any group that J. Edgar Hoover considered a threat, which applied as equally to peaceful civil rights groups as it did to KGB-controlled communists. It did not obey wiretapping laws or get warrants for searches and seizures related to domestic intelligence. They engaged in black bag jobs on the authority of the FBI Director. This was revealed during hearings in the 1970''s, which led to new laws temporarily making them go through the courts as the Constitution requires. Their culture has remained constant through the decades, because each generation of FBI management handpicks new people who will follow in its footsteps. This is an agency that has resisted all attempts at reform and covers up its mistakes every single time. I''m afraid the only solution is to gradually transfer its responsibilities elsewhere and eventually shut it down. They are a throwback to a bygone era and have surprisingly little respect for the Bill of Rights or the rights of the people they serve.

[likeitis5050]

It is surprising the FBI was able to even able to proceed with any integrity after everything came out about Hoover. From the minute it was apparent he was unstable everything done while he was in charge should have been reopened. The hidden agenda and code of silence apparently never came to an end.

[missingamerica]

Hey, CBS, are ya''ll going to go back and revisit the CSI scripts that used this technique? You might have imprisoned some innocent actors...

[sowrong-2009]

Think racism is gone? Read the Fargo Forum. ND finds a Black man guilty of murder. Because he is Black. No motive nothing only because he is black Please if anyone out there can Please help us with this. Moe Gibbs did not could not Kill anyone. Prosecuting attorneys lied. All white jury convicted him because they were told they would have to come in on Sat. Mis-conduct on prosecutings part. This is a Black man In a White town being Lynched!! Please read and pass on. Moe Gibbs did not kill this lady. Her boyfriend and boyfriend father both were sleeping with her. Moe Gibbs lived in the same building. with his wife (whom is white) and 15 month old daughter. He did not know her. this was a crime of passion. Police did not following up on any leads. arrested the only black man that lived in the building

[jerr11]

What else is there to say?

Mike Nifong is the posterboy of justice in America today.

[onsteroids1]

Its called "the power of old spice". Fancy colognes and fancy blue suits walk in a room with far far too much nobility still today than is americanly acceptable. Don''t listen to anybody who calls himself a expert. Experts are a dime a ******* dozen. John Walsh is right! Justice is in yer gut.

[onsteroids1]

Don''t leave trust in those who call themselves your justice. Justice is yours. Justice is everyone''s. Not just the fancy dancy.. Not just the guy who went to school. But everyones.

[onsteroids1]

Patriotism is everyones. Religion and Faith is everyones. Marriage is everyones. United States of America! Is everyones.

[onsteroids1]

Mr. "Trust me cuz I went to school".. Mr. "trust me cuz I wear fancy sun glasses".. Mr. "trust me cuz deyz call me de F.. B... I.." Go live in England, ya wig wear''n *************..

[onsteroids1]

Book writers..

[Netterz]

The powers that be, hold ALL the keys, and there all a bunch of criminals themselves, who get there crimes swept under the rug, and never let out to the general public. Look how long, and how many KNEW that Senator was acting improperly and molesting young pages in the White House? Think about how many crimes they have committed over the decades, this comes as no suprise at all. We live in a Communistic Country, more freedoms are taken every day. They already control most everything we do, and continue to create new laws everyday to control more,in the name of ''the greater good''. HEH, its all BS, anyway you care to look at it. Next week, your going to be told whatyou can and can not think, right after they tell you wat you can and can not eat.

[airjackie]

40 years and it makes since that most of those who are innocent are minorities. Now I noticed the FBI wouldn''t do anything about the problem nor would the DOJ until this report came out. I wonder how many men have died based on this fake evidence. No surprise about the DOJ as Gonzales and his fellow Republican legal appointees didn''t care about the injustice done to these men. Now you can bet that done of those falsely in prison were friends of the GOP. Great example of American Justice and Democracy. It''s to bad that minorities are still valued less then animals. Even during the Katrina Storm the US was more concerned about animals then humans. Look for the lawsuits to come as the FBI/DOJ knew this was wrong but did nothing about it as usual. AG Mike and his Deputy Mark will most likely follow Cheney''s orders and push this problem to the bottom of the pile yet again.

[onsteroids1]

"The powers that be, hold ALL the keys, and there all a bunch of criminals themselves, who get there crimes swept under the rug, and never let out to the general public."

How else do you develop an interest in crime fighting without first being victim to it? How does someone want to be a cop, not being a criminal? Its fear driven.. Its a way to satisfy the angst. Most cops nowadays are naturally corrupt, and political.. Very political. To find any cops out there nowadays of the old ways? Of the old virtues.. is hard to find.

[onsteroids1]

Most people nowadays are tabloid career..

[onsteroids1]

If ya wanna find a bank robber? Look no further than the people who catch bank robbers. If ya wanna find a rapist? Look no further than the guy who wants to catch a rapist. Thats how it works. Not how its always worked, but how it is today.

[onsteroids1]

And the FBI man.. oh man. That guy.. that guy is a political goliath.

[barbaraf4]

This is going to grind our judicial system to its knees. Everyone is going to demand a retrial.

[andor3]

All police and FBI "science" is flawed. Every scientist knows you cannot prove a hypothesis by starting from the assumption that it is true and looking for evidence to support it--which is what they do.

Any evidence from a police or FBI crime "lab." should be regarded very skeptically by jurors and judges..

[likeablunchs]

'' .. listen, you little rich sick girl, attract business by paying me & 3 other to hob nob at your sick bed for 22.04 each per night ($0.92 each hour) & sleep in ur guest beds at your 1700 square foot, 1/4 plus acre subsistence farm pretending to be your inept competition as we play song dance skit kit you are here why why why first aid on the trail & dance get well feed world get sick tax world hike naked dance dressed porn songs (or 11.08 per night / $0.46 per hour if you expect your crops eaten) .. ''

'' .. the bed & breakfast / lunch / dinner that pays you to sleep with them .. ''

'' .. school teachets paid by sick little kids to rally round their sick beds & cure their own school teachet cancers & other diseases .. ''

'' .. money formality is sure to disappear .. ''

'' .. space aliens said they''d feed the world but first to invest trillions dollars / votes in decades of baby raping war .. ''

'' .. have you hugged a lazy naked ignorant profane blemished promiscuous kid today? .. ''

'' .. she builds prisons, not paradises; but, she swears wishes don''t come true .. ''

'' .. at $.20 per gift, 330 shared @ $.30 each / 3300 @ $.21 each .. ''

'' .. if avg 90,000 countys 90,000 folk, each is visited in 60 years at 1 sick bed at each of 33 villages across 4.5 countys per day .. ''

[likeablunchs]

'' ...

which came first eternity or the earth?

easy to see the earth came first

or we wouldn''t be wondering which came first,

except that, even if earth first,
eternity must swell to infinitely beyond and before and after the earth,

and so must have come first anyway,

such that two folk can one say the earth is flat and one can hike to pluto,

while the other says the earth is round, and there is no hiking trail to pluto,

and they each can be absolutely correct, and each absolutely incorrect at the same time,

and each go their seperate ways,

still the earth is both round and flat at the same time, unless one chooses to believe otherwise;

but, then you''d have to be crazy

... ''

'' ... what''s the difference in ruling forever because one wants to, and because one will be damned not to? whatever difference one chooses ... my soul spans forever, and i get a bad dream here or there now or then and chaos seems to rumble round till i calm inside and out and remember it was all my fault and i never truly cut anyone but myself ... i only glance at you cruelly because you are not the one i wish that i could be; though, i''m sure to be again ... ''

[figuy30]

Next thing you know they''ll be letting school principals tell kids they can''t hug a friend, and that freedom of speech is by permission only. Looks like freedom in America is not free, but for sale to those who can afford it.

[tbweb]

22 years of this mans life is gone, no apology and no amount of money will ever replace that and he is still behind bars, sad.

[krg12171936]

What else could you expect from a bunch
of "FAILURES BECAUSE of INCOMPETENCE"?
Without help from John Q. Public that bunch of no
accounts couldn''t catch a cold if they stayed out in
the cold for a week.
That bunch of incompetents shoulb be disbanded and
a group should replace them similar to the German
Secret Police of World War II era.
The FBI is what it says "FAILURES BECAUSE of
Incompetence.

[mcvet]

This is going to grind our judicial system to its knees. Everyone is going to demand a retrial.


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Posted by barbaraf4 at 12:08 AM : Nov 19, 2007
+ report abuse

An Innocent man has spent over 20 years behind bars and THIS is all you care about? God where do you creatures come from. IF States like this one had a GOOD justice system there would be no questions here. When it was shown in Illinois that there were problems with convictions, the state IMMEDIATELY stopped the process dead in its tracks. To the citizens of that state NO person should serve ONE MINUTE of time that was not just. To the citizens of the South? Who knows what makes those losers of history operate. I know there are good people there but they somehow never are able to get a grip on the Fascist who rule. Sieg Heil Y''all.

[navyretired2]

"This is going to grind our judicial system to its knees. Everyone is going to demand a retrial.

Posted by barbaraf4 at 12:08 AM : Nov 19, 2007

An Innocent man has spent over 20 years behind bars and THIS is all you care about? God where do you creatures come from. IF States like this one had a GOOD justice system there would be no questions here. When it was shown in Illinois that there were problems with convictions, the state IMMEDIATELY stopped the process dead in its tracks. To the citizens of that state NO person should serve ONE MINUTE of time that was not just. To the citizens of the South? Who knows what makes those losers of history operate. I know there are good people there but they somehow never are able to get a grip on the Fascist who rule. Sieg Heil Y''''all."

Posted by MCVet at 06:24 AM : Nov 19, 2007"

I think Barbara has a fair point, but you cant stop being such a ******* drama queen for 2 seconds.

Did she say, "to he11 with the guy wrongfully convicted for over 22 years!"? No. She just made a statement to the overall impact, sorry if it didn''t suit your bed-wetting.

[navyretired2]

Faulty science is bad enough, but to compound it with hiding the findings, or not notifying proper authorities of the findings that the science is not supportable? Sounds criminal in my book. Intentionally extending the sentences of who knows how many wrongfully convicted people...somebody needs to be held accountable for this.

[klwill1005]

It is truly a shame that the so called justice is not that at all. I am a Black woman who does not believe in justice, not in america. If I don''t have money or look the right way I am doomed. I certainly would never trust white people to do the right thing ever. They are not my peers, we just occupy the same country and with different rules for each. So it will take several years for this to be rectified, of course, many people should and maybe will be let go, but of course they will be accused of something else. Where do they get the justice from, certainly not here, we are no better then those countries that we try to put down. We will all have to answer for what we''ve done. Lets hope that God will grant you mercy that you fail to give to others, especially those of color. Luck for you I''m not in charge, not one would be here, for all the dirt you''ve done and continue to do.

[cepe10-2009]

Another example of incompetence in the law enforcement and officer of the court arena. the judge should be named - he is entirely corrupt.

[speakinup]

"This is very sad for those people.

"The gov''t should have to give you at least $1,000,000 for pain and suffering if you are wrongly put in jail/prison. Posted by jh6379


jh6379 - It is indeed sad. NO Argument there.

Where would the million come from ? Are you passing along your bank account number ? The ''government'' is us jh6379.

I expect to hear some lame argument like, bush writes checks he can''t cover, so if this is your response, let me say in advance: do two wrongs make a right ?

[scully152]

figuy30, They already tell kids they cannot hug or anything because if they do they are labeled as sexual harrassers, even in kindergarten. It is unbelievable. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Next thing you know they''''ll be letting school principals tell kids they can''''t hug a friend, and that freedom of speech is by permission only. Looks like freedom in America is not free, but for sale to those who can afford it. Posted by figuy30

[prinzowhales]

As if the Whitehurst revelations were not enough...

The public''s drooling admiration for the "G-men" that was carefully nurtured by J. Edna Hoover''s PR flaks will not be swayed by these latest revelations...after all, the fact that for the first WTC attack, the FBI cooked the bomb, provided the fuse, trained the driver and refused it''s informer and provocateur''s request that the bomb be replaced with harmeless material--and even tried to charge their informer!...unfortunately for these keystone nitwits, the informer had recorded his conversations with his handlers.

The public blithely ignored Hoover''s sabotage of the JFK investigation...they ignored the refusal of FBI bosses to investigate the Arabs at the flight schools and quietly accepted Bush''s order to lay off the bin Ladens prior to 9-11.

They ignored the outright lies and framing of a jounalist and his wife over their discoveries regarding the FBI''s cover-up of TWA 800 evidence so as to sell the official lie of its downing.

Let''s not forget how it aided an abetted a mob assassin in Boston...

[jogle1106]

I think its funny at how CBS will only view one side of a story. They will hurt anyone for a story. Why don''t you talk to the daughter of the two people that were brutally murdered on March 7th 1984. I''m sure she would love to tell her story at how her parents were taken from her when she was just 18months old. I am the niece of the two that were murdered and i must say that is not just for this man to walk on the streets again. He should have been put to death a long time ago. Contact the daughter and the family I know they would love to tell their story!

[larsmacans-2009]

Bush''s Fault

[battyellison]

u think that the government doesn''t know that? Why are Republicans resigning from congress in masses because they know that once the house of cards start falling a whole bunch of them are going to be held accountable ans some might even go to jail including that idiot we call the president

[santa2007-2009]

It''''s Free, We love to make a little child smile, so if you have a child or know someone who would enjoy a letter from Santa Claus for there children, Please pass the word on, I found this at:

www.poconocommunitynews.com

[realpatriot1]

JOgle1106,


I''m sorry for your loss and what you and your loved ones have had to endure. I''m glad that you raised the point that you did, I think it''s important.

Since I wasn''t in the courtroom to hear all the evidence I don''t have an opinion on this man''s guilt or innocence, but for the sake of discussion let''s say that the other evidence would''ve been enough to convict him without this tainted evidence. That means the negligence of the FBI is harming victims and defendants alike.

I have no doubt that some of the people who will be released now in response to this are innocent and that some guilty parties will walk on the basis of this. All the more reason to fix the problem before more people are victimized.

I hope that you, your cousin, and family can find piece knowing that your loved ones are in a better place.

Sort of wondering where that guy would be today if he hadn''t been convicted of that crime. Would he be in jail for another crime, or dead because of another crime. Kind of akes you wonder, huh? He has had three hots and a cot for 22 years. Could be he would have been homeless and had nothing up to this point in his life. Now he''s institutionalized, how good can he be on the outside now?

[mcvet]

I think its funny at how CBS will only view one side of a story. They will hurt anyone for a story. Why don''''t you talk to the daughter of the two people that were brutally murdered on March 7th 1984. I''''m sure she would love to tell her story at how her parents were taken from her when she was just 18months old. I am the niece of the two that were murdered and i must say that is not just for this man to walk on the streets again. He should have been put to death a long time ago. Contact the daughter and the family I know they would love to tell their story!


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Posted by JOgle1106 at 10:17 AM : Nov 19, 2007
+ report abuse

Did YOU listen to the whole story? I believe the Attorney for another man involved admitted to that attorney that HE killed all of them, the the accused man was NOT involved. He went to the Nazi Judge in that wacked out Red Neck he11 hole and told him so. What did the Klan Man do? He turned in the Attorney, who''s cliant killed himself in prison, into the Bar Association and refused to even hear him out. If it''s not this it''s giving a black kid 10 years for oral *** or having ropes hung from trees. It just seems these people and I do believe there are good ones amoung them, will NEVER get the message. NEVER. Sieg Heil Y''all.

[mcvet]

Sort of wondering where that guy would be today if he hadn''''t been convicted of that crime. Would he be in jail for another crime, or dead because of another crime. Kind of akes you wonder, huh? He has had three hots and a cot for 22 years. Could be he would have been homeless and had nothing up to this point in his life. Now he''''s institutionalized, how good can he be on the outside now?


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Posted by mitchoncbs at 10:45 AM : Nov 19, 2007
+ report abuse

Even for a Nazi you are a very sick human... you make the Klan look good!!

[jogle1106]

He would have been selling drugs and doing the same things he was 20 years ago. Believe me people these two are not the only lives he has taken or had part in taking. My mother is still suffering from the loss of her beloved brother and she knows how Lee Wayne Hunt was, everyone who knew of him know how he was and how he would have been had he not been convicted. He would have walked around with a smile on his face a free man and laughed at the justice system at how they let a guilty man free. His son is following in his foot steps today. A life of abuse and violence towards the ones in his life, I guess like father like son really is true. Ask the officers who knew the ones he murdered they still remember, the family still remembers.

MCVet, you sit there in your chair passing judgment on people who post on here. I doubt you sniveling piece of human garbage has the guts to say things like that to people in person. You are a VET wannabe who will sit in your underwear scanning porn sites, because you are alone with no real grasp on life. Plus you can''t even spell or structure sentences correctly, making you a "stupid idiot."

[culturechang]

The FBI has an agenda of its own. Truth and justice are not it.

I saw in the History Channel recently that the FBI gots its start under false pretences back in the early 1900s. It was created to chase prostitutes after some religious sensationaltist lied to Congress by convincing them that white women were being enslaved in brothels. Congress knew it was inaccurate, but it was all willfully generated and willfully accepted lies. It was all about forcing a religious agenda. Turns out, they shutdown brothels all over New York and could not find any slaves. The effort forced the willing women out of brothel work and into 12 hour-a-day jobs in textile mills for pennies a day. And if you notice, prostitution today is being called "modern day slavery"....and the FBI has it as a high priority. Hey, if the lie worked before....do it again.

[gunownerdan]

Liek the FBI, the ATF also uses flawed science to convict innocent people.
Learn more:
www.JPFO.org

[gunownerdan]

Like the FBI, the ATF also uses flawed science to convict innocent people.
Learn more:
www.JPFO.org

[godseyesore-2009]

MCVet, just pray to your god that it isn''t YOU standing falsly accused in the courts. If you are rich, you stand a chance, since it is an adversarial system (therefore money talks). If not in the upper crust like most Americans, your life is likely to be ruined.
Prosecutors generally use any means possible for convictions, including faulty evidence.
There are many innocent persons who have been exonerated by DNA, so it occurs...a lot. "Justice" is a joke, and not getting the science correct is an inexcusable fundamental flaw. A big price to pay for prosecutor egos.

Just remember Jerry Scheck is one of the lawyers who helped get OJ Simpson acquitted.