WASHINGTON, Nov. 13, 2007

Dems Put Conditions On Iraq War Funding

Majority Leader: Democrats Will Not OK War Money Unless Bush Agrees To Bring Troops Home

  • Photo Essay Week In Iraq Photos

    A daily diary with scenes of the latest attacks and snapshots from the effort to rebuild a nation.

(AP)  Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Tuesday that Democrats will not approve more money for the Iraq war this year unless President George W. Bush agrees to begin bringing U.S. troops home.

By the end of the week, the House and Senate planned to vote on a $50 billion measure for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bill would require Bush to initiate troop withdrawals immediately with the goal of ending combat by December 2008.

If Bush vetoes the bill, "then the president won't get his $50 billion," Reid told reporters at a news conference.

The leader of the House of Representatives, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat, made a similar statement last week in a closed-door caucus meeting.

Tough rhetoric does not necessarily foretell another veto showdown with Bush on the war. Similar legislation has routinely fallen short of the 60 votes needed to overcome procedural hurdles in the Senate. It is possible the upcoming bill will sink, in which case Democrats would probably wait until next year to revisit the issue.

But their remarks reflect an emerging Democratic strategy on the war: Force congressional Republicans and Bush to accept a timetable for troop withdrawals, or turn Pentagon accounting processes into a bureaucratic nightmare.

If Democrats refuse to send Bush the $50 billion, the military would have to drain its annual budget to keep the wars afloat. Last week, Congress approved a $471 billion budget for the military that pays mostly for non-war related projects, such as depot maintenance and weapons development.

The tactic stops short of blocking money outright from being used on the war, an approach that has divided Democrats and fueled Republican criticism that Democrats are eager to abandon the troops. But forcing the Pentagon into a painful budget dance to pay for the wars spares Democrats from having to write a blank check on the unpopular war.

"We will and we must pay for whatever cost to protect the American people," said House Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md. "But tragically, unfortunately, incredibly, the war is not making us safer."

In a recent letter to Congress, Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England warned that the Army was on track to run out of money by February.

Fast Fact

If Democrats refuse to send Bush the $50 billion, the military would have to drain its annual budget to keep the wars afloat.

England also said that without more money the military would eventually have to close facilities, layoff civilian workers and defer contracts. Also, the budget delay could disrupt training efforts of Iraqi security forces and efforts to protect troops against roadside bombs, he said.

"The successes they (the troops ) have achieved in recent months will be short lived without appropriate resources to continue their good work," England wrote in a Nov. 8 letter.

A White House spokesman said Bush would veto any legislation that sets a timetable for troop withdrawals.

In a speech on Tuesday, Bush said Congress should not leave for a holiday recess at the end of December without passing a clean war spending bill.

"We don't need members of Congress telling our military commanders what to do," he said. "We need our military commanders telling us what to do so we can win the war against these extremists and radicals."

Congressional Republicans said they would back the president.

"It's very clear that the American people want us to succeed," said Sen. Jon Kyl, a Republican. "They would like for our troops to be able to come home, but not in a losing cause."

The House was expected to vote as early as Wednesday, with the Senate following suit by the end of the week.

The bill is similar to one Bush rejected in May. Unable to muster the two-thirds majority needed to override the veto, Democrats stripped the timetable from the $95 billion bill and approved the war money without restrictions.


© MMVII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Video and Galleries from U.S.

Add a Comment See all 128 Comments
by denn034 November 13, 2007 4:46 PM PST
The Democrats just want to run from al Qaida in Iraq, an odd approach to the war on terror, and undermine everything our soldiers have fought and died for in Iraq in the process. Conditions are abandoment of what are soldiers fought and died for. Period!
Reply to this comment
by mudrose-2009 November 13, 2007 4:46 PM PST
Harry is too late in his dictims. A brigade is already on the way home. Nice try Harry.
Reply to this comment
by mcvet November 13, 2007 4:53 PM PST
Harry is too late in his dictims. A brigade is already on the way home. Nice try Harry.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by mudrose at 04:46 PM : Nov 13, 2007
+ report abuse

Those were coming home anyway. What is it with you bootlickers...can''t you READ???
Reply to this comment
by mcvet November 13, 2007 4:58 PM PST
The Democrats just want to run from al Qaida in Iraq, an odd approach to the war on terror, and undermine everything our soldiers have fought and died for in Iraq in the process. Conditions are abandoment of what are soldiers fought and died for. Period!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by denn034 at 04:46 PM : Nov 13, 2007
+ report abuse

Now I know you Nazi''s hate the CONSTITUTION but IF WE THE PEOPLE can not stop a stupid WAR and stop a Leader from conducting a war that had NOTHING to do with the ATTACK on us OR with Bin Laden... You DO remember the man who actually DID attack us don''t you? You Bootlickers have such HORRIBLE memories... Anyway he''s the enemy. Bush SAID he was using the Surge to allow that nation to pull together a Government... they HAVE NOT done so. Again your lack of a good memory is showing. Now on a different Thread YOU said people should hold the Democrats responsible because they didn''t do what they were sent to WASHINGTON to do and here you attack them for attempting to do just that. Even a simple minded SWASTIKA HUGGING BOOTLICKER should understand you can''t have it BOTH ways. Now get up and get out the last pamplet you got at the Karl Rove Nazi Youth Night. Hold it to your chest and repeat after me!! I will TRY to think for myself!! I will try to think for myself!! Sieg Heil Bush!!
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds November 13, 2007 4:58 PM PST
Of course the chimp will veto it and sadly there are still just enough gutless republicans to back him up...........for now........
Reply to this comment
by canyoutellme-2009 November 13, 2007 5:11 PM PST
The Democrats just want to run from al Qaida in Iraq, an odd approach to the war on terror, and undermine everything our soldiers have fought and died for in Iraq in the process. Conditions are abandoment of what are soldiers fought and died for. Period!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by denn034 at 04:46 PM : Nov 13, 2007
+ report abuse
-----------------------------------------------------------
... uh... didn''t the US Gov''t say that Al Qaida in Iraq has been defeated? That was what.. .a month ago? GREAT, so let''s send ''em home NOW... or, are you saying that in order to honor those who have fought and died in Iraq, that we should have MORE people fight and die in Iraq? What an ODD way to honor those brave soldiers.
Reply to this comment
by rowdytexan2 November 13, 2007 5:24 PM PST
The Democrats just want to run from al Qaida in Iraq, an odd approach to the war on terror, and undermine everything our soldiers have fought and died for in Iraq in the process. Conditions are abandoment of what are soldiers fought and died for. Period!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by denn034 at 04:46 PM : Nov 13, 2007

The Republicans dropped Al Queda and the war on terror in Afghanistan when they invaded and occupied Iraq to get their oil. Al Queda was not even in Iraq and had no ties with Iraq till we went there.

THE WAR ON TERROR NEVER EXISTED EVEN! It was the war to go get the OIL!
Reply to this comment
by Con Mohrat November 13, 2007 5:38 PM PST
"War costs could total $1.6 trillion by 2009, (Congressional) panel estimates" in other newscasts today.

Looks like the Bush Administration has the last laugh on the American voters.

Go ahead and give him another $50 billion and while at it, another $100 billion as a Christmas bonus.
Reply to this comment
by setumstrt9 November 13, 2007 5:49 PM PST
Is that the best idea the Dems have on the war on terror? "Bring the troops home or no more money" Sounds like a broken record. The only idea the dems have is "Do the oposite of Bush" They should try something original for a change!!!!!
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 5:55 PM PST
HOPE FOR AMERICA: PRESIDENT RON PAUL

-- No more meddling in other country''s political affairs
-- No more aggressive military actions overseas
-- No more torture prisons
-- No more pseudo-wars like the "War on Drugs"
-- No more IRS and unconstitutional income taxes
-- No more Federal Reserve (the group of private banks which owns our government)
-- No more erosion of Social Security to pay for militarization
-- No more U.N. (one world government) participation
-- No more NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO or GATT
-- No more North American Union
-- No more federal gun control laws
-- No more illegal aliens pouring-in over our country''s borders
-- No more illegal aliens allowed to roam freely in our streets
-- No more national ID cards (Real ID Act)
-- No more government invasion of your privacy
-- No more federal Laws which are not authorized by The Constitution
-- No more federal erosion of State sovereignty
-- No more unlimited federal government

They don''t call him "Dr. No" for no reason. The Doctor is in! Join us in this 21st Century political revolution at ronpaul2008.com

"Liberty, when it takes root, is a plant of rapid growth."
- George Washington

"Those who expect to reap the blessing of freedom must...undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine

"Ron Paul doesn''t represent your Father''s school of political thought. He represents your Founding Fathers."
- Me
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 5:58 PM PST
WHO''S RON PAUL?
Ron Paul''s campaign has become a clearinghouse for voters like me who feel unrepresented by the Fascisct (globalist Republicans) and their Socialist comrades in crime (globalist Democrats). They''re actually one and the same. It''s all a phony, poorly staged left-right paradigm. Most people, though, are too distracted, dumbed-down, or outright brainwashed by mainstream media, which endlessly regurgitates scientifically-crafted streams of information aimed at keeping their eyes closed to the realities of the world around them, that they fail to recognize this. Those currently in power, and those being groomed to take [major] political power, are preselected by a "global elite," and whomever is eventually elected, will ultimately, serve their agenda, and not ours. People on the right and those on the left have many differences. Maybe irreconcilable ones. But they have a lot of common beliefs too, and our numbers and anger are of a considerable magnitude. No matter what happens in 2008, I personally believe Ron Paul will influence the national conversation about how much power our government should have over our lives; how much liberty we should give up for security; and whether we should continue moving along our current path towards a one world government. These are issues that, frankly, no one else is talking about as seriously and sincerely as Ron Paul. What''s for sure is that his growing army of supporters like me will be a force to be reckoned with in 2008.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 6:02 PM PST
RON PAUL FAVORS NON-INTERVENTIONIST FOREIGN POLICY
All of the other presidential candidates wants to continue our illegal police action in Iraq indefinitely, and they do not rule out a preemptive (nuclear) first strike against Iran. Conversely, Ron Paul voted against our (undeclared) war in Iraq, which was sold to us with lies. The area is more dangerous now than when we entered it. We destroyed a regime hated by our direct enemies--the jihadists, and created thousands of new recruits for them. The war in Iraq has cost more than 3,500 American lives and almost a trillion dollars. We need a leader in the White House who will ensure this never happens again. Both Jefferson and Washington warned us about entangling ourselves in the affairs of other nations. Today, we have 750 foreign bases and troops in 130 countries. We are spread so thin that we have too few troops defending America. And now, there are new calls for a draft. We can continue to fund and fight no-win police actions around the globe, or we can refocus on securing our borders against illegal aliens who are invading us from the South. No war should ever be fought without a Declaration of War voted upon by the Congress, as required by The Constitution. Under no circumstances should the U.S. again go to war as the result of a resolution that comes from an unelected, foreign body, such as the United Nations. Too often, we give foreign aid and intervene on behalf of governments that are despised. Then, we become despised.
Reply to this comment
by kansas1946 November 13, 2007 6:05 PM PST
Finally, the Democrats showing some grit. Put the pullout in the bill and let Baby Bush veto it. Then who isn''t supporting the troops.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 6:08 PM PST
WHO''S RON PAUL?
Ron Paul''s campaign has become a clearinghouse for voters like me who feel unrepresented by the Fascisct (globalist Republicans) and their Socialist comrades in crime (globalist Democrats). They''re actually one and the same. It''s all a phony, poorly staged left-right paradigm. Most people, though, are too distracted, dumbed-down, or outright brainwashed by mainstream media, which endlessly regurgitates scientifically-crafted streams of information aimed at keeping their eyes closed to the realities of the world around them, that they fail to recognize this. Those currently in power, and those being groomed to take [major] political power, are preselected by a "global elite," and whomever is eventually elected, will ultimately, serve their agenda, and not ours. People on the right and those on the left have many differences. Maybe irreconcilable ones. But they have a lot of common beliefs too, and our numbers and anger are of a considerable magnitude. No matter what happens in 2008, I personally believe Ron Paul will influence the national conversation about how much power our government should have over our lives; how much liberty we should give up for security; and whether we should continue moving along our current path towards a one world government. These are issues that, frankly, no one else is talking about as seriously and sincerely as Ron Paul. What''s for sure is that his growing army of supporters like me will be a force to be reckoned with in 2008.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 6:14 PM PST
ARE WE A NATION OF LAWS?
Consider the Patriot Act. The Law is 342 pages long, or 57,000 words, making it a bit longer than Dostoevsky''s "Notes from Underground" or, if you''re partial to pigs, about twice the size of Orwell''s "Animal Farm." The Patriot Act is the reigning champion of our government''s recent un-American activities. When it was first paraded before Congress and the Senate following the 9/11 attacks, few Members, other than Congressman, Ron Paul dared to vote against it. Most in Congress simply gave it their rubber-stamp of approval, without ever reading it. Why bother? It was, after all, named the "USA Patriot Act." It must be a good thing. Right? Now in effect, the Law wrecks a generation''s worth of constitutional protections against government snooping, legalizing police-state tactics in searches and seizures, criminalizing certain forms of speech and political activity, and opening the way for the mistreatment of foreigners in government custody and wholesale expulsions and imprisonment. It is a repugnant, unnecessary Law that goes against the very principles its name wrongly implies. Yet, it remains unchecked and unbalanced by public opinion, Lawmakers or the Courts. So, yes, we''re a nation of Laws. But the Laws aren''t much to speak of when they''re designed to hoodwink the public to win its docility. Neither is public responsibility much to speak of these days when its docility is secured with nothing more than a ploy-riddled play on the word "patriot."
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 6:15 PM PST
CAMPING OUT WITH HALIBURTION
The John Warner Defense Authorization Act, which was supported by Clinton, Obama and McCain, permits militarized police round-ups and detention of protesters ("potential terrorists") and other "undesirables" for detention in facilities which are already contracted for and under construction by Kellog, Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton. This Law, which was sold to an "emergency managed" and willfully gullible public in the wake of the 9/11 attacks as a necessary measure needed by our President in order to fight his "global war on terrorism," permits the indefinite detention of American citizens who resists the foreign and domestic agenda of our President. The Journal of Counterterrorism & Homeland Security International reported recently that global engineering and technical services powerhouse, Kellog, Brown & Root announced during January 2006 that its Government and Infrastructure division had been awarded a (no bid) Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity contract to build these detainment camps with a maximum total value of $385 million over a five year term, and that this contract called for the company to build "temporary detention and processing capabilities" to augment existing U.S. government Detention and Removal Operations and to support "the rapid development of new programs." New Programs? Could it possibly get any worse? Why would the president be so concerned about Americans protesting? Aren''t we all happy campers?
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 6:18 PM PST
CLINTON MAKES PRESIDENT DICTATOR
With the full support of Senators Clinton, Obama and McCain, President Bush recently signed into Law the John Warner Defense Authorization Act, which, according to Senator Leahy (VT), will actually "encourage the President to declare Martial Law." It does so by revising the Insurrection Act, a Laws which limits the President''s ability to deploy troops within the United States. The Insurrection Act has historically, along with the Posse Comitatus Act, helped to enforce strict prohibitions on military involvement in domestic Law enforcement. With one cloaked swipe of his pen, Bush has now undone all of those prohibitions. The John Warner Defense Authorization Act, which was signed by the President in an unpublicized ceremony, allows the President to declare a "public emergency," suspend Congress; The Constitution; and to take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of your Governor or local authorities, in order to "suppress public disorder." President Bush seized this unprecedented power on the very same day that he signed the equally odious Military Commissions Act. The two Laws compliment one another. One allows for torture and detention abroad of those who dissent and are stripped of their citizenship, while the other seeks to enforce acquiescence at home by allowing the President to order the military onto our streets in a domestic Law enforcement role, which is already being done. Vote for Liberty. Vote for Ron Paul.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 6:20 PM PST
YOU''RE A FROG IN A POT
My fellow Americans need to open their eyes to the fact that our republic, along with The Constitution upon which it was founded, is being flushed-down the toilet by our nations'' bought and paid for politicians and media. While the Oligarchs warn and incite fear in the sheeple about the prospect of terrorism, they at the same time leave our borders wide open, and then conduct illegal wars overseas that do nothing but incite the terrorism which their Orwellian Laws like the Patriot Act and the John Warner Defense Authorization Act pretend to protect us from. Wake up America! It''s not about protecting you from terrorism, or Global Warming, or any of that other fear-mongering garbage the sold-out, mainstream media feeds you 24/7. It''s about feeding the bankers and the military industrial complex, and facilitating the global elite''s ability to ratchet-down control over the American people, placing us into a total control grid where they can surveille, track and control everywhere we go and everything we do. It''s the groundwork for tyranny. It''s the New World Order plan of Bush, Clinton, Edwards, McCain, Giuliani, et.al., being executed quite beautifully. You''re a frog in a pot: In order to cook a frog, you don''t throw him into a pot of boiling water. If you do, he''ll resist and jump-out. What you do instead is, you turn the heat-up REAL SLOW, and by the time the water is boiling he won''t be able to jump out anymore, because it''s too late--he''s already doomed.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 6:25 PM PST
"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
- James Madison

"Those that give give up essential liberties for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
- Abraham Lincoln

"We have nothing to fear but fear itself, and those who would exploit our fear for power and their own personal, selfish, cynical gain."
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

"When the people fear their government, you have tyranny. When the government fears the people, you have liberty."
- Thomas Jefferson
Reply to this comment
by liberalme November 13, 2007 6:46 PM PST
The only tie they should attach is to bring our troops home NOW no more funding his oil!!

The data on the deaths of Troops and Iraques is staggering-all for a war where there was no terrorist activity.

In 2005, 6256 troops that had served in Iraq-committed suicide--all betweent the ages of 20-24.

Aside from severly physically wounded troops, we also have severely emotionally wounded troops, many of whom have never seen the violence Bush created.

Bush and Cheney HAVE to be held responsible for what they created, they are by choice, the most evil people on the planet!!
Reply to this comment
by waynabq November 13, 2007 7:00 PM PST
"The Democrats just want to run from al Qaida in Iraq, an odd approach to the war on terror, and undermine everything our soldiers have fought and died for in Iraq in the process. Conditions are abandoment of what are soldiers fought and died for. Period! "

denn034,

To call you an idiot would be a dreadful insult to idiots around the planet. This so called "war on terror" had nothing with getting Bin Ladin, it''s premise was that Hussein had WMDs and was tied to Al Quaeda neither excuses for invasion are even remotely true.

The only thing the soldiers who''ve died in Iraq along with about a million Iraqi civilians is for the vain, shallow thinking stupidity of Chimp and his desire to satisfy big oil corporations by seizing Iraq''s petrolem resources. If you think otherwise, you''re way, way beyond stupid.

Hussein rid Iraq of Al Quaida long before the war and the Iraqis still don''t need the U.S. help to get rid of them. Al Quaida did not exist in Iraq until the U.S. invasion, how many car bombs where there before the U.S. invaded?

It''s the millions of gullible idiots like you that enabled Chimp to hijack the White House and keep power to this day. You freakin'' retards are so pathetically stupid it''s not even funny.
Reply to this comment
by speakinup November 13, 2007 7:07 PM PST
waynabq - you are very opinionated. And that''s fine, until you call millions "gullible idiots" and pathetically stupid.

Then you only display your own limitations. Somehow it doesn''t surprise me though.
Reply to this comment
by antoniof123 November 13, 2007 7:12 PM PST
Perfect timing Novemeber if he vetos it then he for sure will have to wait until next years for any thing. Well, GOP it looks like your time just ran out shouldn''t have allowed SCIP and a few other bills to get vetoed by the idiot. It is going to be a blood bath in 2008 for the GOP.

Have a nice day.
Reply to this comment
by liberalme November 13, 2007 7:16 PM PST
"The Democrats just want to run from al Qaida in Iraq, an odd approach to the war on terror, and undermine everything our soldiers have fought and died for in Iraq in the process. Conditions are abandoment of what are soldiers fought and died for. Period! "

You are a stupid idiot---we NEVER went AFTER Al Quaida, we drew them into Iraq.
If we were going after al Quaida all our troops would have been in Afghanistan.

Soldiers in Iraq died for Bushs oil---PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply to this comment
by speakinup November 13, 2007 7:23 PM PST
liberalme - if we just went there for oil - why isn''t Kiwait the 51st state ?
Reply to this comment
by liberalme November 13, 2007 8:12 PM PST
Because Bushs'' daddy blew getting Sadam, little bushie had to do what daddy didn''t---plus!
Reply to this comment
by rayuk-2009 November 13, 2007 8:35 PM PST
For every day that Bib Laden is free, a few more terrorist are joining the ranks. Bin Laden is their Robin Hood and hero. Why is that so difficult for Republicans to understand? Does anyone know?
Reply to this comment
by liberalme November 13, 2007 8:40 PM PST
They know, they just don''t want to be wrong--There''s that 25% hold Bush to the same admirable level and the terrorists hold Bin Laden.
Reply to this comment
by hungry1968 November 13, 2007 8:42 PM PST
"Dems Put Conditions On Iraq War Funding"


Uh oh. Sounds like someone might be finally growing a pair of balls....

Nah - they''ll back down AGAIN.
Reply to this comment
by hungry1968 November 13, 2007 8:44 PM PST
liberalme - if we just went there for oil - why isn''''t Kiwait the 51st state ?

Posted by speakinup at 07:23 PM : Nov 13, 2007



That''s Israel''s title.
Reply to this comment
by donbl1 November 13, 2007 8:53 PM PST
Israel will be the 51st....
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 9:05 PM PST
RON PAUL IS NOT YOUR FATHER''S REPUBLICAN
Ron Paul represents a different Republican Party from the one that Iraq, deficits and corruption have soured the country on. It''s ironic that other GOP candidates are scared to death of his message, because his positions are more conservative than theirs. Being anti-war; pro-life; pro civil liberties; pro Second Amendment; pro States rights; pro secure borders; and in favor of a sound economics policy IS TOTALLY CONSERVATIVE. The Republican party has "lost its way," Paul said during a recent GOP debate. Like the limited federal government principles espoused by Dwight D. Eisenhower, his school of Republicanism stands for a certain idea of The Constitution that much of the power asserted by modern Presidents has been usurped from Congress, and that much of the power asserted by Congress has been usurped from the States. Though Paul acknowledges flaws in both The Constitution (it included slavery) and The Bill of Rights (it doesn''t go far enough), he still thinks a comprehensive array of positions can be drawn therefrom: against gun control; for the sovereignty of States; and against foreign-policy adventures like the ones currently being played-out in the Mid-East. After ten terms of service as a U.S. Congressman, Ron Paul has demonstrated a consistent track record of adherance to The Constitution unmatched by anyone in either party. Ron Paul does not represent your Father''s school of political thought. He represents your Founding Fathers.
Reply to this comment
by cbs_oliver November 13, 2007 9:06 PM PST
I am past believing these Democrats are serving the people.

We need new Democrats.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 9:12 PM PST
THE WORDS OF OUR FATHERS:

"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
- James Madison

"Those that give give up essential liberties for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
- Abraham Lincoln

"We have nothing to fear but fear itself, and those who would exploit our fear for power and their own personal, selfish, cynical gain."
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

"When the people fear their government, you have tyranny. When the government fears the people, you have liberty."
- Thomas Jefferson

"Commerce with all nations. Alliances with none."
- Thomas Jefferson

"Peace is not the absence of conflict. It is the ability to handle conflict through peaceful means."
- Ronald Reagan

"Wars are poor chisels for carving-out peaceful tomorrows."
- Martin Luther King Jr.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 9:13 PM PST
HOPE FOR AMERICA: PRESIDENT RON PAUL

-- No more meddling in other country''s political affairs
-- No more aggressive military actions overseas
-- No more torture prisons
-- No more pseudo-wars like the "War on Drugs"
-- No more IRS and unconstitutional income taxes
-- No more Federal Reserve (the group of private banks which owns our government)
-- No more erosion of Social Security to pay for militarization
-- No more U.N. (one world government) participation
-- No more NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO or GATT
-- No more North American Union
-- No more federal gun control laws
-- No more illegal aliens pouring-in over our country''s borders
-- No more illegal aliens allowed to roam freely in our streets
-- No more national ID cards (Real ID Act)
-- No more government invasion of your privacy
-- No more federal Laws which are not authorized by The Constitution
-- No more federal erosion of State sovereignty
-- No more unlimited federal government

They don''t call him "Dr. No" for no reason. The Doctor is in! Join us in this 21st Century political revolution at ronpaul2008.com

"Liberty, when it takes root, is a plant of rapid growth."
- George Washington

"Those who expect to reap the blessing of freedom must...undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine

"Ron Paul doesn''t represent your Father''s school of political thought. He represents your Founding Fathers."
- Me
Reply to this comment
by downtowner97 November 13, 2007 9:19 PM PST
Please, someone, tell me how much oil is coming out of Iraq. It seems to me that the purpose of this whole war thing has been to stop the flow of oil out of Iraq to jack the price of oil so American oil companies can make record profits.

The war caused oil prices to go up, and US oil companies that pump their oil from the safety of US oil wells get to charge exactly as much as Saudi Arabia does. What if you were being paid 4x as much as you were in 2001? What could you buy with money like that?

Oil has gotten much scarcer in the last 6 years, so it''s price has gone up. Dollars have become more abundant, so their value has gone down. You can say that this war was about our safety, about getting rid of a bad guy, or about installing a democracy in Iraq, but the bottom line is that if it had been avoided, oil would be much cheaper, and the dollar would be worth more, and our national debt wouldn''t be $9 trillion ($30,000 per man, woman and child in the US)

The sooner we get out of Iraq, the sooner we can cut our losses.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 9:22 PM PST
CBS NEWS PREJUDICED AGAINST RON PAUL
Most people can see right through the prejudice CBS News obviously has towards Ron Paul. In the few times they''ve covered him at all, I''m suprised they didn''t have one of their graphics artists Photoshop some devil horns on top of his head in that worst ever photograph they always use of him. CBS obviously thinks that if they pretend Paul isn''t a top-tier GOP candidate, then their readers and viewers will eventually think so too. Whenever they are forced to do a story on Paul, because some other mainstream source is covering him for some reason, the fact that their editors work overtime to slant their stories in such a way as to either marginalize his accomplishment, or present Paul in the most negative light possible, is obvious to anyone with a modicum of intelligence. "What about their polls?," you ask? As far as the CBS News poll is concerned, they don''t even include Paul on the list of GOP candidates which pollees can choose from, and then afterwards, report to you that Paul doesn''t even rank in their final tally. Ron Paul is getting major grass roots support nationwide. He has over 62,380 meetup group members in 1,175 Groups from 1,004 cities nationwide, with another 7,197 people more folks just waiting to hear when a new meetup group will start-up near them. He''s won ALL of the viewer phone-in polls in ALL of the GOP debates he''s been in, and has raised more money ($4.2 million) in one day than any other GOP candidate ever. Go Ron Go!
Reply to this comment
by seven_pesos November 13, 2007 9:23 PM PST
news item:

$21,000 dollars for each family of four to pay for bush''s war.

a war made of lies and death that will be lost.

oh well, that''s the ----- for you, folks!

they still love bush in the -----.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 9:26 PM PST
RON PAUL FAVORS NON-INTERVENTIONIST FOREIGN POLICY
All of the other presidential candidates wants to continue our illegal police action in Iraq indefinitely, and they do not rule out a preemptive (nuclear) first strike against Iran. Conversely, Ron Paul voted against our (undeclared) war in Iraq, which was sold to us with lies. The area is more dangerous now than when we entered it. We destroyed a regime hated by our direct enemies--the jihadists, and created thousands of new recruits for them. The war in Iraq has cost more than 3,500 American lives and almost a trillion dollars. We need a leader in the White House who will ensure this never happens again. Both Jefferson and Washington warned us about entangling ourselves in the affairs of other nations. Today, we have 750 foreign bases and troops in 130 countries. We are spread so thin that we have too few troops defending America. And now, there are new calls for a draft. We can continue to fund and fight no-win police actions around the globe, or we can refocus on securing our borders against illegal aliens who are invading us from the South. No war should ever be fought without a Declaration of War voted upon by the Congress, as required by The Constitution. Under no circumstances should the U.S. again go to war as the result of a resolution that comes from an unelected, foreign body, such as the United Nations. Too often, we give foreign aid and intervene on behalf of governments that are despised. Then, we become despised.
Reply to this comment
by donbl1 November 13, 2007 9:27 PM PST
Downtowner, I do not know how much oil but the US imports $520K barrels per day (4.5% of US imports)which is 8th largest supplier to the US. In contrast, we import 1.9M barrels a day from Canada.

Lots of variables affecting oil price: China & India emerging markets; problems in West African countries; Venezuelan problems; hedge fund speculators; and, significant growth in the global economy.

The Democrats and Republicans have been noticeable quiet on the subject.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 9:28 PM PST
RON PAUL IS THE NEW WAY
What we need is a President who will show us the way. Not the old way. Not the same way, but a NEW way. Think about this for a minute. What if we pulled all of our troops out of South Korea? They''ve been there for 50+ years. What if we quit worrying about Iran, but instead, realized that its having a nuclear weapon will not mean the end of the world? What if we pulled all of our troops out of the Middle-East, and brought them all home? What if we realistically addressed the National Debt, and paid attention to REALLY DOING SOMETHING about stopping illegal immigration? These are the ideas of Presidential candidate, Ron Paul. He''s a ten term Congressman and a physician who has delivered over 4,000 babies. He''s an intellectual who''s published four books, three of which are devoted entirely to sound economics and one to foreign policy. He was raised on a dairy farm in Pennsylvania as a pious Lutheran, but now he attends a Baptist church. Paul is given to mulling things over morally. Whenever he recollects the helicopter pilots he treated as an Air Force Flight Surgeon (Captain) during the Vietnam War, a war which he now says was "totally unnecessary and illegal," he laments, "They were gung-ho. I''ve often thought about how many of those people never came back." Candidates with the high level of personal integrity and proven track record of adherence to The Constitution, Congressman Paul has always demonstrated only come around once in a lifetime, if we''re lucky.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 9:29 PM PST
RON PAUL WILL RESTORE U.S. SOVEREIGNTY
All of the trade deals and world government organizations, which all of the presidential candidates support (except Ron Paul), such as the ICC, NAFTA, GATT, WTO, and CAFTA, are all a major threat to our nation''s sovereignty. They transfer power from our government to unelected foreign elites. The ICC wants to try our soldiers as war criminals. Both the WTO and CAFTA could force Americans to get a prescription to take herbs and vitamins. The WTO has forced Congress to change our laws to meet their needs, and not our own. If anything, the WTO makes trade relations worse by giving foreign competitors a new way to attack U.S. jobs. The NAFTA superhighway, being built by a Spanish company, is just one part of a plan to erase our borders and create the North American Union, a single nation State like the EU, out of Canada, the U.S. and Mexico, with a new, unelected bureaucracy and money system. Forget about controlling immigration under the NAU scheme. There won''t be any borders anymore, or a free America. Our limited, constitutional government will be gone forever. Let''s not forget the UN either. It wants to impose a direct Carbon Tax on us. Ron Paul successfully fought this move in Congress last year, but if we are going to stop ongoing attempts of this world government body to rule over us, we need someone in the White House who knows how to say "No." We must withdraw from any organizations or treaty that infringes upon our nation''s sovereignty.
Reply to this comment
by preacherdank November 13, 2007 9:38 PM PST
No front lines in Iraq, front lines move to US, the enemy is serious, why aren''t you?
Reply to this comment
by fredgrad2000 November 13, 2007 9:52 PM PST
Harry Reid (M-NV) and Nancy Pelosi (C-CA) are nothing but defeatists; they don''t want us to win even if that is now possible; they do NOT want it, period. They would prefer to continue to tow the same line they had 11 months, ignoring ALL progress, to please their political masters; the MoveOn.org Party (M-NV) and the CodePink Party (C-CA). It was perfectly acceptable to believe the surge couldn''t accomplish anything in January 2007, but to pretend our soldiers haven''t now created the POTENTIAL now for a positive outcome from the Iraq mess is treasonous. I have 2 brothers who fought in Iraq (one of them in Afghanistan as well); ask them or 90% of the rest of the soldiers in our army whether they want to quit now? Pelosi and Reid only care about their looney left masters, calling either of them "leaders" is a joke; they''re nothing but scared followers of a bunch of anti-American loons.
Reply to this comment
by kissamaarse November 13, 2007 9:55 PM PST
Let''s hope that Reid doesn''t drop his remaining cajone by crumbling to the warmonger, U.S. treasury busting, American miscreant, and everyday American hater George Bush. You have to wonder, though, even as a non-republicant, how elected officials like Reid can even talk before a camera knowing they break over and over again. It''s like being on the waterboard: within minutes you will say ANYTHING to the interrogator. You think not? Then go for a ride yourself. Maybe it will be at next year''s country fair in the little GOP (gay outed party) shop of horrors.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 10:05 PM PST
DEMOCRATS HOODWINKED BY HILLARY
Sadly, even though Clinton voted for the war in Iraq, and a host of Laws aimed at removing civil liberties; and our country''s sovereignty, Democrats are so blinded by her cult of personality that I predict they will overwhelmingly vote to put her crime family back into office. While I''ve made some progress in educating Liberals as to the phony staged consensus of the left-right paradigm, the fact remains that a majority of Democrats still see the White House as some kind of political Super Bowl, where the success of their "team" is the be all and end all - to the expense of America as a whole. The Punch and Judy show theater that was the "troop surge" debate in the Senate characterizes Hillary''s role in hoodwinking Americans perfectly. The debate is framed as not whether the U.S. should get out of the Middle-East altogether, but the relative minutia of whether to feed thousands of more troops into the meat grinder or not. A Clinton presidency will mean more war, more dead Americans, and a further desecration of the tattered shreds of what''s left of our Constitution. Clinton is the ultimate global elitist and represents the Democrats supposed base: the poor and downtrodden, about as much as Lindsay Lohan represents grace and dignity. I''m sure she informed the likes of David Rockefeller and Queen Beatrix as to her presidential aspirations during her last visit to attend the Bilderberger conference. Vote for a REAL AMERICAN. Vote for Ron Paul.
Reply to this comment
by downtowner97 November 13, 2007 10:06 PM PST
preacherdank - The enemy is in your hall closet, in the crawlspace, in the trunk of your car, hiding in the bushes outside your bedroom window. They''re serious! They''re highly trained! If we spend one dollar on anything but the war, they''ll get us! The first thing they''ll do is make it illegal for us to love Jesus! We gotta fight them there so we don''t have to fight them here! Be afraid! Be scared all the time! Give up your rights so they can be taken away from the terrorist menace hiding among us too!

You have bought the Bush party line hook, line and sinker. I pity you. I actually pity our kids more. This $9 trillion national debt has been run up by people pretending to make us safer, and the children will have to pay.

Reply to this comment
by downtowner97 November 13, 2007 10:09 PM PST
Message to the warmongers among you: Bees sting. It feels terrible. Bees everywhere are thinking of stinging you, and we can''t have that. Get up tomorrow morning, find a beehive, pick up a stick, and whack that hive until those bees are so frightened, they surrender their stingers and learn to act like flies.

This is what US foreign policy has been like since 2001.
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 10:11 PM PST
ARE WE A NATION OF LAWS?
Consider the Patriot Act. The Law is 342 pages long, or 57,000 words, making it a bit longer than Dostoevsky''s "Notes from Underground" or, if you''re partial to pigs, about twice the size of Orwell''s "Animal Farm." The Patriot Act is the reigning champion of our government''s recent un-American activities. When it was first paraded before Congress and the Senate following the 9/11 attacks, few Members, other than Congressman, Ron Paul dared to vote against it. Most in Congress simply gave it their rubber-stamp of approval, without ever reading it. Why bother? It was, after all, named the "USA Patriot Act." It must be a good thing. Right? Now in effect, the Law wrecks a generation''s worth of constitutional protections against government snooping, legalizing police-state tactics in searches and seizures, criminalizing certain forms of speech and political activity, and opening the way for the mistreatment of foreigners in government custody and wholesale expulsions and imprisonment. It is a repugnant, unnecessary Law that goes against the very principles its name wrongly implies. Yet, it remains unchecked and unbalanced by public opinion, Lawmakers or the Courts. So, yes, we''re a nation of Laws. But the Laws aren''t much to speak of when they''re designed to hoodwink the public to win its docility. Neither is public responsibility much to speak of these days when its docility is secured with nothing more than a ploy-riddled play on the word "patriot."
Reply to this comment
by nextprophet November 13, 2007 10:12 PM PST
CAMPING OUT WITH HALIBURTION
The John Warner Defense Authorization Act, which was supported by Clinton, Obama and McCain, permits militarized police round-ups and detention of protesters ("potential terrorists") and other "undesirables" for detention in facilities which are already contracted for and under construction by Kellog, Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton. This Law, which was sold to an "emergency managed" and willfully gullible public in the wake of the 9/11 attacks as a necessary measure needed by our President in order to fight his "global war on terrorism," permits the indefinite detention of American citizens who resists the foreign and domestic agenda of our President. The Journal of Counterterrorism & Homeland Security International reported recently that global engineering and technical services powerhouse, Kellog, Brown & Root announced during January 2006 that its Government and Infrastructure division had been awarded a (no bid) Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity contract to build these detainment camps with a maximum total value of $385 million over a five year term, and that this contract called for the company to build "temporary detention and processing capabilities" to augment existing U.S. government Detention and Removal Operations and to support "the rapid development of new programs." New Programs? Could it possibly get any worse? Why would the president be so concerned about Americans protesting? Aren''t we all happy campers?
Reply to this comment
See all 128 Comments
  • MOST POPULAR
  • Viewed
  • Commented
Latest News
Featured Blogs