WASHINGTON, Nov. 11, 2007
U.S. Official: Anonymity Is A Lost Cause
Intel Official Says Citizens Should Rethink Notion of Privacy And What To Give Up For Safety
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Privacy no longer can mean anonymity, says Donald Kerr, the principal deputy director of national intelligence. Instead, it should mean that government and businesses properly safeguard people's private communications and financial information.
Kerr's comments come as Congress is taking a second look at the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).
Lawmakers hastily changed the 1978 law last summer to allow the government to eavesdrop inside the United States without court permission, so long as one end of the conversation was reasonably believed to be located outside the U.S.
The original law required a court order for any surveillance conducted on U.S. soil, to protect Americans' privacy. The White House argued that the law was obstructing intelligence gathering because, as technology has changed, a growing amount of foreign communications passes through U.S.-based channels.
The most contentious issue in the new legislation is whether to shield telecommunications companies from civil lawsuits for allegedly giving the government access to people's private e-mails and phone calls without a FISA court order between 2001 and 2007.
Some lawmakers, including members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, appear reluctant to grant immunity. Lawsuits might be the only way to determine how far the government has burrowed into people's privacy without court permission.
The committee is expected to decide this week whether its version of the bill will protect telecommunications companies. About 40 wiretapping suits are pending.
The central witness in a California lawsuit against AT&T says the government is vacuuming up billions of e-mails and phone calls as they pass through an AT&T switching station in San Francisco.
Mark Klein, a retired AT&T technician, helped connect a device in 2003 that he says diverted and copied onto a government supercomputer every call, e-mail, and Internet site access on AT&T lines.
The Electronic Frontier Foundation, which filed the class-action suit, claims there are as many as 20 such sites in the U.S.
The White House has promised to veto any bill that does not grant immunity from suits such as this one.
Congressional leaders hope to finish the bill by the Thanksgiving holiday on Nov. 22. It would replace the FISA update enacted in August that privacy groups and civil libertarians say allows the government to read Americans' e-mails and listen to their phone calls without court oversight.
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Kerr said at an October intelligence conference in San Antonio that he finds concerns that the government may be listening in odd when people are "perfectly willing for a green-card holder at an (Internet service provider) who may or may have not have been an illegal entrant to the United States to handle their data."It's just another 'Trust us, we're the government'
Kurt Opsahl, Electronic Frontier FoundationHe noted that government employees face up to five years in prison and $100,000 in fines if convicted of misusing private information.
Millions of people in the U.S. - particularly young people - already have surrendered anonymity to social networking sites such as MySpace and Facebook, and to Internet commerce. These sites reveal to the public, government and corporations what was once closely guarded information, like personal statistics and credit card numbers.
"Those two generations younger than we are have a very different idea of what is essential privacy, what they would wish to protect about their lives and affairs. And so, it's not for us to inflict one size fits all," said Kerr, 68. "Protecting anonymity isn't a fight that can be won. Anyone that's typed in their name on Google understands that."
"Our job now is to engage in a productive debate, which focuses on privacy as a component of appropriate levels of security and public safety," Kerr said. "I think all of us have to really take stock of what we already are willing to give up, in terms of anonymity, but (also) what safeguards we want in place to be sure that giving that doesn't empty our bank account or do something equally bad elsewhere."
Kurt Opsahl, a senior staff lawyer with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an advocacy group that defends online free speech, privacy and intellectual property rights, said Kerr's argument ignores both privacy laws and American history.
"Anonymity has been important since the Federalist Papers were written under pseudonyms," Opsahl said. "The government has tremendous power: the police power, the ability to arrest, to detain, to take away rights. Tying together that someone has spoken out on an issue with their identity is a far more dangerous thing if it is the government that is trying to tie it together."
Opsahl also said Kerr ignores the distinction between sacrificing protection from an intrusive government and voluntarily disclosing information in exchange for a service.
"There is something fundamentally different from the government having information about you than private parties," he said. "We shouldn't have to give people the choice between taking advantage of modern communication tools and sacrificing their privacy."
"It's just another 'Trust us, we're the government,'" he said.
By Pamela Hess
© MMVII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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See all 256 CommentsWell gee, let''s just rewrite the constitution because it''s inconvenient to our corporate sponsored government and their paranoid delusions.
The Bush administration will be in office for about 13 more months so it cann really benefit from this. But, once the government gains a power, express or implied, it is virtually impossible to give it up. How do we safeguard againist a future President using this power againist his/her political enemies? It cannot be done. So, let''s now give the government this power.
The Bush administration will be in office for about 13 more months so it cann really benefit from this. But, once the government gains a power, express or implied, it is virtually impossible to give it up. How do we safeguard againist a future President using this power againist his/her political enemies? It cannot be done. So, let''s now give the government this power.
So when are Bushit''s and Darth''s trials scheduled for?
No government official will ever stand trial. It''s the police state tightening its grip on our necks. Why doesn''t the Bill of Rights mean a *** thing to the Bushit administration and their Gestapo? What ever happened to the Fourth Amendment; was it repealed by the Neoconscum? When was the Constitutional Convention that repealed it?
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
Like Ron Paul, I believe the biggest threat to your privacy is the government. We must drastically limit the ability of government to collect and store data regarding a citizens'' personal matters. We must stop the move toward a national ID card system (e.g., The Real ID Act). Under this new Law, states are currently issuing new driver''s licenses embedded with standard identifier data (RFID chips). Although, many states are refusing to comply. A national ID with new tracking technologies means we''re heading into an Orwellian world of no privacy. Ron Paul was one of the few members of Congess who voted against the Real ID Act. Also, under current medical privacy protection rules, which Ron Paul also opposed, insurance companies and other entities have access to your personal medical information. Finally, there''s the so-called Patriot Act, which Congressman, Ron Paul also voted against. As originally proposed, it expanded the federal government''s ability to use wiretaps without judicial oversight; allowed nationwide search warrants non-specific to any given location, nor subject to any local judicial oversight; made it far easier for the government to monitor private Internet usage; authorized sneak and peek warrants enabling federal authorities to search a person''s home, office, or personal property without that person''s knowledge; and required libraries to turn over records of books read by patrons. Ron Paul sponsored a Bill to overturn the Patriot Act.
When we boomers were kids, we had to crawl under our school desks because the Russians had 20,000 hydrogen bombs. We didn''t repeal the Bill of Rights.
You Gen X lot are confronted by a handful of ragheads with box cutters hijacking a few planes, and you''re all "surrender our freedom for safety!"
If you surrender freedom, you will never have safety!
Which is more dangerous, one tyrant 3,000 miles away, or 3,000 tyrants a mile away? Grow a spine and stand up to this madness!
That violates the basic principles of our Founding Fathers. It doesn''t matter to little George, who thinks the Constitution is "just a piece of paper", but it matters a h3ll of a lot to the rest of us!
"Instead, it should mean that government and businesses properly safeguard people''s private communications and financial information."
But that is exactly what they do NOT do!
Say "Goodbye" to the Constitution, "Goodbye" to Democracy, and "Goodbye" to the USA. Stick a fork in it; It''s done.
"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government''s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." -- Justice Louis Brandeis,1928
TruePropet, you are wasting your time, Ron Paul doesn''t have a snowballs chance in h3ll of winning. He hasn''t been anointed by the Council of Foreign Relations, the Bilderberg group or our "liberal" media.
- Abraham Lincoln
The fake Americans, the traitors to our principles and liberty who are in power today continue the long march toward destroying America.
"When The People Fear The Government, There Is Tyranny; When The Government Fears The People, There Is Liberty. " -- Thomas Jefferson
When the government is the repository for every detail of your life, every minor failing, every preference and interest, every bit about your family and friends---- then you will know fear. However, by then it will be too late to do anything about it.
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you''re fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom."
-- Dwight Eisenhower
"He that''s secure is not safe." Benjamin Franklin
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Don''t forget the trilateral commission! geezzzz. lmao
There is a line out of an old Star Trek episode which was borrowed from Orwell''s "1984". "Wrong thinking will be quickly punished; ''right'' thinking will be just as quickly rewarded!". It was chilling enough to hear that in a TV show; its terrifying to hear your own government start saying that!
SIG HEIL, BUSH!!!
Source: Business Week Online, "A Gentleman''s "C" for W," Richard S. Dunham, July 30, 2001
Here it is - laid bare for all to see. However, few have been willing to see clearly that this traitor and his cadre of sycophants love their power and will destroy American liberty to keep it.
William O. Douglas, Justice, U.S. Supreme Court
The government, seeking power to monitor and know every element of your life, is the beginning of despotism.
"There is no man so good, who, were he to submit all his thoughts and actions to the laws, would not deserve hanging ten times in his life."
Michel de Montaigne
It would be a lot easier to dismiss if we didn''t appear to get one willing dupe after another for presidential choices. Of course, the constituency that elects a president on the qualification of "He''s the kind of guy I''d like to have a beer with" share blame as well.
"The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it; moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live - did live, from habit that became instinct - in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and except in darkness, every movement scrutinised."
George Orwell, 1984
"It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself%u2014anything that carried with it the suggestion of abnormality, of having something to hide. In any case, to wear an improper expression on your face ... was itself a punishable offense. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: facecrime ..."
George Orwell, 1984
We need to remove people like Donald Kerr from public office if we are to maintain our democracy.
We cannot have a democracy if we do not have privacy. It is a key requirement for the democratic political process.
We cannot afford to have politicians and businesses accessing people''s private communications and financial information without restraint.
Case by case search warrents must be a key requirement for government access to private information.
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The poor quality of American political insight and dialog is not from conspiracy. Sure, there are those who plot and even succeed in their plots. However, the overwhelming source of our problems have to do with complacency and the insidious process of pecking away at our liberty. Day to day Americans worry about their jobs and families. Day to day there are only glimpses of the trend that ends in despotism. The endpoint of this path is not yet in sight. The question is, when Americans finally realize that their liberty and American principles are nearly lost will it be too late?
When a high-level government official makes the kind of Orwellian statement dismissing "privacy" (an essential foundation of liberty) as old fashioned, then we glimpse our future life in a totalitarian America.
"As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
-- Justice William O. Douglas
Excellent discussion here.
Well done!
I agree with everything you said, but when both parties (since the days of Eisenhower) pursue a course in foreign policy, trade and other facets of government that seem to run contrary to the benefit of the public at large, it''s easy to see conspiracies.
Isn''t that backwards and upside down from how it ought to be?
Posted by CBS_Oliver at 05:46 PM : Nov 11, 2007
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Too kind. Those who espouse the views of Kerr are dangerous enemies of America and liberty. They are traitors and deserve no less than the swift justice due all traitors. However, I would be satisfied with removal from office in disgrace, 10 years in San Quentin, and subsequent perpetual 100% government surveillance of every aspect of their lives. No bathroom breaks. LMAO
What was it Ossam Bin Laden wanted to change by attacking America ???? ------ The way we do things out of fear
U.S. Official: "Sacrifice Liberty for Security"
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"The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedoms."
William O. Douglas, Justice, U.S. Supreme Court
And, only terrorist-loving, America-hating people will stand in opposition to this. Patriots will have nothing to fear.
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural pri7va7cies
Date: 15th century
1 a: the quality or state of being apart from company or observation : seclusion b: freedom from unauthorized intrusion one''s right to privacy
These definitions don''t invoke the word "anonymity," but it still seems pretty straight forward. I do not authorize the government to intrude into my private (Main Entry: 1pri7vate ...b: not known or intended to be known publicly...) communications, regardless of medium. Therefore, such monitoring is a violation of my privacy. Arguably, the U.S. Constitution does not guarantee a right to personal privacy. Maybe it''s time that it should, since our elected officials cannot be trusted.
This is an old and often-practiced process used to implement a fascist state upon the ruins of democracy. The current U.S. neocon leadership learned well from their recent predecessors:
... it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering, Nazi leader
These neocon fascists and their stooge (Bush) are traitors and enemies of freedom. Americans should insist on their trial and execution as such. Volunteers for the firing squad will not be difficult to find.
------ This White House continously refuses to release information & refuses subpoenas,,,,, The GOP & Bush Lovers continue to hide behind the flag, to protect Bush
On the face of it, I''m far more apt to believe that these individuals are trying to stir the rabble up so as to make as much opposition to the government being effective in their attempts to fight terrorists.
I mean honestly, how many US people have been spirited away as a result of the liberties we have ''forfeited'' ?
I submit to you, there have been more powerball winners than folks like that. And, THEN you have to wonder if there isn''t good cause.
Oh - but I''ll be accused of ''no honor'', or what''s the quote from Benjamin Franklin that gets so overworked, or maybe I''m just un-american because I think the Constitution should be amended so we can get rid of the terrorists, then go back to our orriginal rights.
Ah - but be aware - this is how HITLER got in power. Funny how liberals say you are trying to stifle them if you say things like this, but they will tell you to ''surrender your diploma'' if they disagree with you.
What happened to the President''s rights ?
Ah yes, liberals - someone with both feet firmly planed - in the air.
I submit to you, there have been more powerball winners than folks like that. And, THEN you have to wonder if there isn''''t good cause.
Posted by speakinup
We will certainly never know since those numbers are hidden behind the veils of "national security" and "executive privilege".
''speakinup'' wrote:
Re: "or maybe I''m just un-american because I think the Constitution should be amended so we can get rid of the terrorists, then go back to our orriginal rights."
You are a master of double-speak. Nobody is suggesting "ammending" the Constitution. There are merely those in positions of power who are actively ignoring it.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis.
Do you still get your Christmas bonus, even if your performance continues to degrade?
As for terrorism, Bush today still uses it as a tool to describe all of our past enemy''s ---- That''s a mistake & the fact that he knows it is also dishonoable. ------- He is right about it being an ideaoligical threat, hence it cannot be defeated by military force but only by a better ideaology.
Terrorism isn''t attributed to a country or an army, but to a few extremists & that is probably not helping in this war.... According to Richard Armitage this morning on CNN
"As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
-- Justice William O. Douglas
When Americans express the desire to throw away our liberty and amend our Constitution for a "threat'', then they are falling into the same trap that has led many into the abyss of despotism. No doubt some of these mis-guided people think they are doing right by America.
"The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes." -- Thomas Paine
But they do not learn. they listen to their fake News masters, they gobble up the neocon talking points, and they stop thinking for themselves. the enemy becomes the "liberals", or the "Soldier Haters", but they stop wondering why they are so easily misled. It is easier to turn on government TV (Fake News) and be told that all will be well if they simply give up their liberty- piece-by-piece.
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of freedoms of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison
Yup - just like the Canadian screaming his head off right now, right ? How come we heard about him omega3 ?
I don''t get a Christmas bonus, feelfree. And, thanks to the Democrats, it would be called a ''winter break'' bonus, anyway.
But has has that got to do with what I was talking about anyway ?
And, what didn''t you undersatnd about ME wanting to amend the Constitution, huh ? For proposing it, I get called "a master of double-speak". You are amusing, if not intelligent feelfree.
Yeah - I think Hillary should be proud of her backers.
Did I get it right ? I was quoting you j-whitman.
Be careful, because everything you do is being watched. Every tick, every little personality quirk, anything the monitoring authorities might consider not average. Anything "different" might be a reason to stop you, question you, run your identity through the massive government database, find out what doctors you see and prescriptions you have registered, search you, take you to the police station for "further questioning", and leave you to convince the authorities the you are doing nothing "wrong".
"There is no man so good, who, were he to submit all his thoughts and actions to the laws, would not deserve hanging ten times in his life."
Michel de Montaigne
--- But that question is missleading, & flat out not honorable in origin --- these subpoenas concern the missmanagement of almost every branch of our govenment, missuse of intellegence, fraudulant waste & abuse by military contractors & much more --
--- They are for the restoration of Congressional oversight that''s vanished over the past 7 years.
We appear to be building some consensus on this topic, even as comments from disruptive posters like ''speakinup'' fade into faint, hollow screechings.
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