Edwards' Immigration Stand Muddled

Politico: Dem Hopeful Accuses Clinton Of Double-Talk, But Experts See Problems With His Position

(The Politico)  This story was written by Ben Smith.

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Former Senator John Edwards (N.C.) has been accusing his rival Sen. Hillary Clinton (N.Y.) of double-talk for a week, since she refused to say clearly whether illegal immigrants should get driver's licenses - but his own position on the issue is also incoherent, experts say.

Immigration policy experts on both sides of the debate say they're puzzled by Edwards’ stance, which appears to hinge on blurring the distinction between state and federal powers.

"He supports licenses as part of a path to citizenship. He doesn't support the Spitzer plan because it doesn't include a path to citizenship," said Edwards' deputy campaign manager Jonathan Prince in an e-mail referring to the New York governor’s plan that prompted the question that flummoxed Clinton.

"That's not a rational position - Eliot Spitzer couldn't ever offer somebody a path to citizenship," said Margie McHugh, the Co-Director of the National Center on Immigrant Integration Policy at the Migration Policy Institute, which favors immigration reform.

"I don't know if they think you're stupid or what they think," said Frank Sharry, the executive director of the National Immigrantion Forum, another broadly pro-immigration policy shop.

Sharry laughed aloud when read Prince’s statement of Edwards’ position.

That is "sort of like saying I oppose the confederate flag in Southern states because there's not a corresponding flag burning amendment to it. It's nonsensical," Sharry said.

Indeed, opposing Spitzer's plan on those grounds amounts to de facto opposition to any driver's licenses for illegal immigrants, something Edwards and his aides have not previously stated.

That's a dramatic shift from Edwards' stand in 2004, when he told "Hardball's" Chris Matthews, "I'm for it," when asked about licenses for illegal immigrants.

Edwards may be changing his position to court working-class Iowa voters, among whom illegal immigration is an emotionally charged issue.

However, his effort to soft-pedal the change seems aimed at a party establishment that is resisting populist anti-immigration forces, and hopes to win the vast bulk of the Hispanic vote in the general election.

In Philadelphia last week, moderator Tim Russert asked the seven Democratic candidates, "Does anyone here believe an illegal immigrant should not have a driver's license?"

Connecticut Sen. Chris Dodd was the only one to indicate opposition.

In the wake of the debate, Edwards aides told reporters that he favors driver's licenses for illegal immigrants, but opposes Spitzer's plan for other reasons. 

They did not say that he opposes all efforts to extend licenses to illegal immigrants unless taken in the context of "some future comprehensive reform."

He and his campaign appear not to have been asked that question directly.

"Two of Mrs. Clinton's opponents, Senator Barack Obama and John Edwards, support granting licenses to illegal immigrants, although Mr. Edwards has problems with elements of Mr. Spitzer's proposal," The New York Times reported Nov. 1.

Politico reported that an Edwards aide "said after the debate that Edwards also supports issuing licenses to illegal immigrants, which is the most controversial element of Spitzer's plan."

In an interview Sunday on “This Week,” Edwards also seemed to limit his opposition.

"You wouldn't give them a driver's license?" asked host George Stephanopolous.

"Not under those circumstances, not if they have an opportunity to become an American citizen and they're choosing not to," Edwards replied, referring to the federal legislation which has not passed.

Prince said Wednesday that Edwards does, in fact, oppose any state attempt to give licenses to illegal immigrants under existing federal law.

But for state plans to include a path to citizenship "would be imossible," said Angela Kelley, the director of the Immigration Policy Center at the American Immigration Law Foundation.

"The drivers licenses will be issued by a state entity. The states are pre-empted."

Clinton has avoided taking a clear position on the New York policy, though she expressed support for the quandary in which governors find themselves.

Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, meanwhile, said he favored Spitzer's plan.

Kelley said some of the murkiness around the issue is understandable.

"These are such complex issues and the candidates are clearly struggling both to understand the policy and to walk a tightrope on the politics," she said.

Meanwhile, other immigration experts are still struggling to understand the details of the candidates' stances.

"Hillary seems unable to give an answer, and it's hard to say that Edwards’ answer is all that clear," said Steve Camarota, the policy director of the Center for Immigration Studies, which lobbies to restrict immigration and opposes drivers licenses for illegal immigrants.

"Obama has the one clear answer: give them drivers licenses."

[glaswolf]

Tulcak, Texas and California are Republics by themselves. The States are federated in many ways. Part of this neo-sense of unity has to do with the Kennedys having used the Interstate Commerce Laws to blackmail the Republics into more a "homogeneous" appearance. Because of transportation and communications, we have become a laminated society, as opposed to a melting pot or tossed salad mosaic. However, the indians still don''t assimilate and many other populations maintain their cohesiveness as they should to be political refugees over generations. Your illusion of oneness is ecumism from another continent beyond the great ponds. It doesn''t exist here in the Americas. We are tribal as are our political refugees from beyond.

[glaswolf]

Senator Edwards position makes sense to me. For the neo legalists, their is no problem in linking federal and state mandated programs, it is done commonly in emergencies. Although, Katrina might question the quality of that cooperation at times and for whom. Unless the federal government is involved, we could have uneven state licensing for illegals of funcional derivatives. We do not need the chaos in our legal systems working at cross purposes, as we are at war. The infantry production allied systems must be preserved at all costs, all. Senator Edwards is being functional in his hesitation and assessment, perhaps his federal reflectiveness is just a manifestation of his innate Presidential qualities.

[my2centss]

Sounds like the politicians are not sure what they are for or against yet.

[klingon69]

Which candidate will come right out and say they will grant NO AMNESTY to any illegal alien, will enforce existing laws, and will fine and/or jail any one that hires illegal aliens?
No double talk. No if, ands, or maybes.
Thats the one I''''m looking for.
Posted by bill1fj at 04:43 PM : Nov 08, 2007
None will, they might alienate(lol) a very vocal group of anchor babies and pro-illegal supporters. No candidate wants to be called a bigot/racist...

[terrorislam5]

DEMONIC-RATS NEVER LEARN AS THEY REWARD THE GRASSHOPPER AND TAX THE ANT

The Ant and the Grasshopper

In a field one summer''''s day a Grasshopper was hopping about, chirping and singing to its heart''''s content. An Ant passed by, bearing along with great toil an ear of corn he was taking to the nest.

"Why not come and chat with me," said the Grasshopper, "instead of toiling and moiling in that way?"

"I am helping to lay up food for the winter," said the Ant, "and recommend you to do the same."

"Why bother about winter?" said the Grasshopper; we have got plenty of food at present." But the Ant went on its way and continued its toil. When the winter came the Grasshopper had no food and found itself dying of hunger, while it saw the ants distributing every day corn and grain from the stores they had collected in the summer. Then the Grasshopper knew:

It is best to prepare for the days of necessity.
http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Aesop/Aesops_Fables/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper_p1.html

[trueprophet]

RON PAUL PLANS TO STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
I agree with Ron Paul about the issue of illegal immigration. The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. Ron Paul has a plan: (1.) Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals. (2.) Enforce Visa rules. Immigration officials must track Visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their Visa or otherwise violates U.S. Law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired Visas. (3.) No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That''s a lot of people to reward for breaking our Laws. (4.) No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules, but taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services. (5.) End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong. (6.) Pass true immigration reform. The current system, and those proposed by ALL other candidates, is incoherent and unfair, and would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country.

[trueprophet]

RON PAUL IS THE NEW WAY
What we need is a President who will show us the way. Not the old way. Not the same way, but a new way. Think about this for a minute. What if we pulled all of our troops out of South Korea? They''ve been there for 50+ years. What if we quit worrying about Iran, but instead, realized that its having a nuclear weapon will not mean the end of the world? What if we pulled all of our troops out of the Middle-East, and brought them all home? What if we realistically addressed the National Debt, and paid attention to REALLY DOING SOMETHING about stopping illegal immigration? These are the ideas of Presidential candidate, Ron Paul. He''s a ten term Congressman and a physician who has delivered over 4,000 babies. He''s an intellectual who''s published four books, three of which are devoted entirely to sound economics and one to foreign policy. He was raised on a dairy farm in Pennsylvania as a pious Lutheran, but now he attends a Baptist church. Paul is given to mulling things over morally. Whenever he recollects the helicopter pilots he treated as an Air Force Flight Surgeon (Captain) during the Vietnam War, a war which he now says was "totally unnecessary and illegal," he laments, "They were gung-ho. I''ve often thought about how many of those people never came back." Candidates with the high level of personal integrity and proven track record of adherence to The Constitution, Congressman Paul has always demonstrated only come around once in a lifetime, if we''re lucky.

[rowdytexan2]

I don''t understand this at all. I can see some benefit to making them ID''s of some kind. But wouldn''t they be immediately rounded up and transported back if they showed up to get an ID? They are illegal. They need to go home and apply for proper working visa''s to be here at all.

I had an employee give me a false SS and ID. She had been here all her life. Went to school here, got pregnant and had a baby here in the hospital. Then decided she needed to be legal to stay here with her baby, asked for vacation time to go visit her grandparents in Mexico. When she didn''t come back after a month, I found out from another employee that she was here illegally and was still in Mexico waiting for her papers to come back.

Now how did she attend high school here? How did she go to a hospital here and have a baby? How was she able to do this, when others are rounded up and taken back on sight!?

It''s just nuts!!!

Edwards is a flake, he wouldn''t know a straight answer if he heard one. Next to Guiliani, he''s the worset candidate on the campaign stage. To keep from answering questions he has no clue what the answers are...he continues to criticize Hillary, yet he criticizes no one else!

The man''s a junior high goof ball out to get more hedge fund money!

[rokero69]

Deporting wont work.....
that is just a band aid,
Instead of investing in Prison camps and sending bombs to the middle east. invest in education,
invest in equality towards your neighbors, quit propping up Strong, Men dictators as were done during reagan/bush. quit Starting wars in Latin America,
This is a result of warmongering from the 80 in your
own backyards, set the whole place back 40 years.

[trueprophet]

I agree with Ron Paul about the issue of illegal immigration. The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. Ron Paul has a plan: (1.) Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals. (2.) Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. Law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas. (3.) No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That''s a lot of people to reward for breaking our Laws. (4.) No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules, but taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services. (5.) End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong. (6.) Pass true immigration reform. The current system, and those proposed by ALL other candidates, is incoherent and unfair, and would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country. Vote for Ron Paul.

[trueprophet]

I agree with Ron Paul about the issue of illegal immigration. The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. Ron Paul has a plan: (1.) Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals. (2.) Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. Law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas. (3.) No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That''s a lot of people to reward for breaking our Laws. (4.) No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules, but taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services. (5.) End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong. (6.) Pass true immigration reform. The current system, and those proposed by ALL other candidates, is incoherent and unfair, and would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country. Vote for Ron Paul.

[trueprophet]

HOPE FOR AMERICA: PRESIDENT RON PAUL

-- No more meddling in other country''s political affairs
-- No more aggressive military actions overseas
-- No more pseudo-wars like the "War on Drugs"
-- No more IRS and unconstitutional income taxes
-- No more Federal Reserve (the group of private banks which owns our government)
-- No more U.N. (one world government) participation
-- No more NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO or GATT
-- No more North American Union
-- No more federal gun control laws
-- No more illegal aliens pouring-in over our country''s borders
-- No more illegal aliens allowed to roam freely in our streets
-- No more federal Laws which are not authorized by The Constitution
-- No more federal erosion of State sovereignty
-- No more all-powerful federal government

They don''t call him "Dr. No" for no reason. The Doctor is in! Join us in this 21st Century political revolution at ronpaul2008.com

[trueprophet]

HOPE FOR AMERICA: PRESIDENT RON PAUL

-- No more meddling in other country''s political affairs
-- No more aggressive military actions overseas
-- No more pseudo-wars like the "War on Drugs"
-- No more IRS and unconstitutional income taxes
-- No more Federal Reserve (the group of private banks which owns our government)
-- No more U.N. (one world government) participation
-- No more NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO or GATT
-- No more North American Union
-- No more federal gun control laws
-- No more illegal aliens pouring-in over our country''s borders
-- No more illegal aliens allowed to roam freely in our streets
-- No more federal Laws which are not authorized by The Constitution
-- No more federal erosion of State sovereignty
-- No more all-powerful federal government

They don''t call him "Dr. No" for no reason. The Doctor is in! Join us in this 21st Century political revolution at ronpaul2008.com

[signof4]

Any public person who fails to come right out and insist Illegal Aliens be deported is anti-American, and ought not be elected to anything whatsoever.
Posted by tucanofulano at 12:04 PM : Nov 09, 2007

AMEN! McCain sure got the message.

[signof4]

''Edwards'' Immigration Stand Muddled''

Nawwwwwwwww........say it ain''t so!

[tucano2]

Any public person who fails to come right out and insist Illegal Aliens be deported is anti-American, and ought not be elected to anything whatsoever.

[solongug]

Those who oppose giving drivers licences to illegals have eyes that can''t see.I support the Governor''s plan which will bring them out of the shadows and into the system.And you know what? Whether you give them the licences or not,they will always be there and driving and you will not prevent them.

[fitedafuture]

one thing i wont muddle is my mind with impertinency..

[fitedafuture]

pointing fingers is easy and we are quick to judge people by the way they look, but whos a terrorist and whos a family guy just trying to make a living? who are we to judge?

[fitedafuture]

very strange if this also happened to the thousands of Italian,British and Russian immigrants who came to this country in the early 20th century..,which in time all became citizens,,give these people a break, if they can help the economy, LET THEM STAY...