Dems' Low Poll Numbers May Not Mean Defeat

Politico: While Public Disapproves Of Congress, Democrats Still More Trusted Than GOP

(The Politico)  By The Politico's John F. Harris and Jim VandeHei

---

Congressional Democrats certainly know the power of a throw-the-bums-out message. It vaulted them to power a year ago this week. Little wonder anxiety is boiling over inside the new majority as lawmakers ponder a succession of polls and reach an inescapable conclusion: Lots of people think they are bums, too.

The anti-Washington mood in the country - aimed at both a Republican president and a Democrat-controlled Congress - has reached breathtaking levels. One has to reach back almost 30 years, to the low points of Jimmy Carter’s presidency, to find a time when there was such simultaneous disdain for both the executive and the legislative branches, as measured by Gallup approval ratings.

Amid the bloodshed and flawed execution of the Iraq war, there is no question why Bush is unpopular.

The political problems of congressional Democrats are more debatable - both their origins and how serious they are likely to be a year from now.

Interviews with lawmakers and top party operatives make clear that the Democratic House and Senate caucuses are divided into two camps. One group views the numbers with concern. The other group views them with panic.

“There are a lot of Democratic members who are consumed with” the sour state of public opinion, said one top party operative who works closely with the Democratic leadership.

From the Democratic perspective, there is definitely a case to be made for alarm. It is based on the history of recent decades that shows whenever voters get this unhappy, unpredictable things can happen.

One person who knows that well - his Democratic clients were beneficiaries of the phenomenon in such politically seismic years as 1992 and 2006 - is pollster Stan Greenberg. He came back from the field in October with numbers for NPR that showed 69 percent of voters disapprove of the job Congress is doing - up 20 points from last January and the highest disapproval rating since Democrats reclaimed their congressional majorities. More striking than the data was a focus group Greenberg observed with James Carville, a fellow consultant for the Democracy Corps project and his partner in Bill Clinton’s first presidential campaign.

“We’ve never seen people as angry and frustrated as they are now, ... even more than in ’92,” he said.

As it happens, however, Greenberg is firmly in the stay-calm camp of the Democratic debate. Along with pollster Mark Mellman, who also consults with Democrats, he has been trying to reassure anxious members with this sunny-side-up message: The public dislikes Republicans even more than they dislike you.

“It’s certainly true that people are disgruntled with Congress and lukewarm about the Democrats in general,” Greenberg said, adding that, “However modest Democrats’ numbers are, Republicans’ numbers are much worse and dropping.

“The main story is Republicans are seen as backing the Iraq war, backing Bush and blocking change,” he said.

Greenberg’s favorability index (voters are asked to give the “temperature” of their feelings, from “very warm” to “very cold”) showed that the public had a negative perception of congressional Democrats by four points, and a negative perception of congressional Republicans by 17 points.

Mellman said that Democrats in part are confronting disappointment from their own backers, who are hoping for more immediate results from the new majority, particularly on Iraq.

According to Democrats who have seen a poll he conducted last week, however, Democrats in Congress had a 48 percent favorable rating, with 44 percent reporting an unfavorable opinion.

Republicans in Congress had just a 32 percent favorable rating, with 62 percent unfavorable.

Rep. Rahm Emanuel, who led the House Democrats’ campaign committee during last year’s election, said he can live with these numbers for now. “I would not call it a grand slam, but you are on a base,” he said Tuesday.

He appealed for realism: “If 70 percent of the country feels rotten about how things are going, you are not going to get them to feel positive about any institution or person.”

Mellman said history supports Emanuel’s confidence: “There’s no consistent relationship between congressional approval and electoral outcomes.”

Weak approval ratings for Congress did lead to a change in power benefiting Republicans in 1980 and 1994, and benefiting Democrats in 2006, Mellman noted. But Democrats scored big gains, even with lackluster approval ratings, in 1982, and suffered only modest losses despite abysmal ratings in 1992.

On issues such as protecting the environment (higher CAFE standards for automobiles) and product safety (cracking down on dangerous Chinese toys) and, above all, the war in Iraq, the public is much more sympathetic to Democrats than Republicans, Mellman’s data found.

That’s why Emanuel is urging his members and political reporters alike to take a breath. “The biggest problem for Bush and his party - besides his unpopularity - he has no agenda, and they have no agenda,” he said. “We are the ones proposing. ... Over time, that comes across. At least we are offering to do something.”

Still, Republicans know that dissatisfaction with Congress at least offers them a potential opening.

A survey by the Field Poll in California last week showed that in her home state, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for the first time in her new job has a plurality of voters disapproving of her performance - 40 percent to 35 percent.

And at a news conference Tuesday, House Republican Whip Roy Blunt (Mo.) chortled, “Never has a Congress spent so much time to accomplish so little.”

In making this case, the GOP has been getting a boost from Jay Leno, who mocked House Democrats in his monologue on Monday and Tuesday nights, in particular the recent news that Democrats are backing off their 2006 campaign pledge for longer workweeks. “I guess they realize they don’t need a full five days to do nothing,” Leno cracked. “They can now do nothing in four days.”

[oldprophet]

Some people say, "a Republican? I''d never vote for a Republican." Let me remind you folks that Abraham Lincoln, who freed the slaves, and who won the war to preserve our Union, WAS himself a Republican. Would you have voted for Stephen Douglas, who was ardently pro slavery, against Lincoln simply because he was a Democrat? Of course you wouldn''t. It''s the person your voting for, and the ideas he or she represents, NOT the party. Paul represents a different Republican Party from the one that Iraq, deficits and corruption have soured the country on. The Republican party has "lost its way," he said recently during a GOP debate. Like the limited federal government principles espoused by Dwight D. Eisenhower, his school of Republicanism stands for a certain idea of the Constitution that much of the power asserted by modern Presidents has been usurped from Congress, and that much of the power asserted by Congress has been usurped from the States. Though Paul acknowledges flaws in both the Constitution (it included slavery) and the Bill of Rights (it doesn''t go far enough), he still thinks a comprehensive array of positions can be drawn therefrom: against gun control; for the sovereignty of States; and against foreign-policy adventures like the ones currently being played-out in the Mid-East. After ten terms of service as a U.S. Congressman, Ron Paul has demonstarted a consistent track record of adherance to The Constitution which is unmatched by anyone in either party. Go Ron Paul!

[oldprophet]

You get the sense that the country is desperate for someone to show us the way. Not the old way. Not the same way, but a NEW WAY. Think about this for a minute. What if we pulled all of our troops out of South Korea? They''ve been there for 50 years. Tens of thousands of them. What if we quit worrying about Iran, but instead, realized that its having a nuclear weapon will not mean the end of the world? What if we pulled all of our troops out of the Middle-East, and brought them all home? What if we realistically addressed the National Debt, and paid attention to REALLY DOING SOMETHING about stopping illegal immigration? These are the ideas Republican Presidential candidate, Dr. Ron Paul. He''s a ten term Congressman and a physician who has delivered over 4,000 babies. Ron Paul has been married to the same woman for more than 50 years, which means he doesn''t come to the race with the sort of baggage some of the other candidates for the White House do. Paul is given to mulling things over morally. He was once a pious Lutheran, but now attends a Baptist church. He never travels alone with women, and once even dressed-down an aide for using the expression "red-light district" in front of a female colleague. I support the 2008 candidacy of Congressman, Ron Paul for President of The United States. Candidates with the high level of personal integrity and track record of adherance to The Constitution Ron Paul always demonstrates only come around once in a lifetime, if we''re lucky. Go Ron!

[kansas1946]

We are angry and frustrated with Bush. He got us into a quagmire in Iraq, is rattling sabers at Iran, has ruined our reputation around the world, has allowed and encouraged the evil practice of torture, he has trashed our civil liberties, and spent us into massive debt.
If people are showing disapproval for congress it is because the Democrats are not moving against Bush enough. That is what people want. This isn''t rocket science. Get our guys out of Iraq as quickly as possible. At least they are showing some chutzpa by throwing another SCHIP bill at him that he is treatening to veto. Let him veto it and throw another one at him. If you show some bravery and look him in the eye, he will back off. He is a bully and a coward. Keep after him.

[likeitis5050]

Then they need to dump Reid and Pelosi. They are stones around their necks. Both of these Representatives have done nothing but attend to their own personal agendas during the 10 months after the ''victory dance''. They are piloting this ship right into the rocks. How do you make Bush actually look competent? Send in the clowns...

[toldyouso21]

Hello Democrats--hope you have hired someone to read this, here is the why for low ratings:

1. You made the mistake of thinking people wanted the Democrats in power--we don''t we want the war to stop--not whine about it stopping, not whine about a majority but not enough votes, not whine about vetos--we want the war stopped and for Dems to stand their ground and be strong--instead we got spineless whiners, with lots of excuses but pretty strong support for the war

2. YOu failed to stop the war and give the green light in funds and laws for the Patriot act, torture, staying in Iraq and the war. You failed in the only reason you were brought to powr--to stop the rogue presidency--you did not stop it or even check and balance it--you accomodate it with the patriot act and more money for war

3. YOu waste time on editorial content about a gen. and hip hop instead of addressing the falling apart of the US

4. YOu keep spending like crazy and making the dollar more inflated and worthless

5. YOu act helpless in the face of Bush instead of like an equal branch with checks and balances

You are weak, weak, weak, weak and kowtow to Bush--we think he must have something on a lot of you--to get you to not oppose him. next post

[toldyouso21]

6. YOu don''t listen to us. We do not want illegal amnesty or preferential treatment, we don''t want to keep killing or continuing the war in Iraq, we don''t want torture or lies or hypocrisy

7. YOu won''t impeach Bush or even bring it up and address all that he has done

8. YOu won''t rescind his immunity and NOT provide immunity those who broke the laws with him

YOu allow bush to get away with a rogue presidency and seem to help him in doing so--because you are either too scared or too compromised to stop him

You lack convictions on anything and hope to win our support doing nothing. If a viable dog catcher would run in each state--for Congress and one for President--there is a very good chance America would vote Independent across the board. YOu are derilect and no longer serve your function--you have failed in your duties as a Congress and are dysfunctional, it is not just the blockages of the GOP--it is the inherent weakness and whining of your party. What do you stand for besides spending as much as possible and sticking your fingers up to agree with whichever way the wind blows? Democrats have no backbone--you are all schemers and snake oil salesmen. We don''t want the Democrats. But we really, really don''t want any more Republicans and forget R. Paul--he is just one man--the filth he will bring with him or keep are the ones we want to see the back of.

[iceman_1960]

"Then they need to dump Reid and Pelosi."
- Posted by likeitis5050 at 09:42 PM : Nov 01, 2007

Pelosi"s approval rating is very good.

[iceman_1960]

"Pelosi"s approval rating is very good."

Compared to Dubya"s, that is.

"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for the first time in her new job has a plurality of voters disapproving of her performance - 40 percent to 35 percent."

If only 40 percent disapproved of George W*anker Bush"s performance, his poor deluded followers would be calling it a mandate.

[iceman_1960]

"And at a news conference Tuesday, House Republican Whip Roy Blunt (Mo.) chortled..."

Roy Blount"s approval rating: 14%

John Boehner"s approval rating: 14%

Republicans in Congress drag down the overall approval rating of that body.

Source:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/favorables/favorables_for_u_s_congress

[jack3213]

I will celebrate all day with a Democratic loss, on any level. They are useless, inexperianced, self serving, and continue to create harm against the USA. Osma Bin Laden is just waiting for any Democrat to win, and those who don''t understand this is just so naive. Wake up already, this is REAL LIFE.

[jon_mccain]

If people are showing disapproval for congress it is because the Democrats are not moving against Bush enough. That is what people want. This isn''''t rocket science.
Posted by kansas1946

Exactly, start impeachment proceedings against Bush and di.ck and watch congressional approval skyrocket.

[iceman_1960]

Democrats are going to win the White House in 2008.

The inexperienced incompetents are the ones in the White House now.

[iceman_1960]

"Osma Bin Laden is just waiting for any Democrat to win, and those who don"t understand this is just so naive."
- Posted by jack3213 at 08:19 AM : Nov 02, 2007

TThe Stab-in-the-Back Legend.

Anyone who doesn"t recognize this ancient right wing propaganda, is incredibly naive.

"Stabbed in the back! The past and future of a right-wing myth."

http://harpers.org/archive/2006/06/0081080

[iceman_1960]

"Even before the war [World War I] had been decided, a soldier in his company recalled how Corporal Hitler would "leap up and, running about excitedly, say that in spite of our big guns, victory would be denied us, for the invisible foes of the German people were a greater danger than the biggest cannon of the enemy."

It didn"t matter that Field Marshal Ludendorff had in fact been the virtual dictator of Germany from August of 1916 on, or that the empire"s civilian leaders had been stunned by his announcement, in September of 1918, that his last, murderous offensives on the western front had failed, and that they must immediately sue for peace. The suddenness of Germany"s defeat only supported the idea that some sort of treason must have been involved. From this point on, all blame would redound upon "the November criminals," the scheming politicians, reds, and above all, Jews."

[Same source]

Substitute "Democrats and Libs" for "Jews," and you have the modern version of this ancient, evil right wing mythology.

[jon_mccain]

Osma Bin Laden is just waiting for any Democrat to win, and those who don''''t understand this is just so naive.

Funny, because under Republican George Bush''s policies Osama is still alive, and our own intelligence agencies have said "The war in Iraq has become a %u201Ccause cilhbre%u201D for Islamic extremists. They have also stated the taliban has almost fully reconstituted themselves in Afghanistan.

[iceman_1960]

Osama bin Laden waited until Bush was in office, to make his second attack on the World Trade Center.

Those who had carried out the first one, were caught and imprisoned by Bill Clinton.

Bill Clinton, Terrorist Hunter.

[afmca]

For those that think that a Democratic victory in 2008 - both Congress and the White House - is a victory for terrorism are blatently stupid. What will really come out of this is the realization that for the last 7 years Americans have been conned by the most vile of administrations using fear and religious intolerance to continue to drain money from social needs to support their blood lust. Once again people have fallen for the lie that radical Islam is a world threat .. it is actually a world nuisance. For, except for rare terrorist victories, it is inept, powerless, and increasingly rejected. The neo-cons use of force and deliberate rising of tensions is what fuels the recruits to join this worthless cause. If the same money and effort would be expended to resolve some of their social and economic ills then the recruits would melt away.

Bush''s evangelical fruit cakes conspire with Osama''s nut jobs to keep this religiously inspired conflict alive because it serves their purpose of exerting control over their lemmings to feed their egos and divert huge sums of money to their cause. Some christians would love to accelerate their vision of the rapture, unfortunately we have a President that is stupid and a VP that is immoral.. the perfect match to serve as the anti-christ.

[iceman_1960]

Approval Ratings in Congress:

ROY BLUNT (R) 14%
JOHN BOEHNER (R) 14%
MITCH MCCONNELL (R) 19%
HARRY REID (D) 19%
CHARLES RANGEL (D) 20%
JOHN MURTHA (D) 23%
NANCY PELOSI (D) 37%
JOHN KERRY (D) 42%
TED KENNEDY (D) 43%

Source:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/favorables/favorables_for_u_s_congress

[mudrose-2009]

THROW THE BUMS OUT. THE ENTIRE DIMNOWIT PARTY IS THE PARTY OF SMALL INTEREST GROUPS. THEY PANDER TO MOVEON AND MEDIA MATTERS. DO GEORGE SOROS''S BIDDING AND CANNOT NOW AND NEVER HAVE BEEN ABLE TO EVER LEGISLATE ANYTHING. THEY CAN''T EVEN CONFIRM AN AG. HERE TOO THEY WANT A JUDGE TO TELL THEM THAT WATERBOARDING IS ILLEGAL. UH, I THINK IF CONGRESS STOPPED TRYING TO RUN THE PRESIDENCY, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, THE WAR, HEALTHCARE, AND JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE THEY FELL THE ARE SUPPOSED TO RUN AND JUST LEGISLATED WHICH IS WHAT THEY ARE REALLY, REALLY, SUPPOSED TO DO, THEN MAYBE, JUST MAYBE SOMETHING UP THERE COULD GET DONE. ALAS, NOT WITH THE DIMNOWITS IN THE MAJORITY. THEY DON''T HAVE A CLUE HOW TO USE THE POWER OF THE MAJORITY FROM ALL THE YEARS OF LEGISLATING BY JUDICIAL FIAT.

[blancadebree]

How can people still trust the Democrats after the complete mess they have created in just ten short months after twelve blissful years of fiscal responsibility, legislating to the base, protecting brain dead women from Florida, attempting to make certain Americans second-class citizens, and protecting pieces of cloth decorated with stripes and stars, all the while sending this country off on the bestest war fun we have ever known.

Those terrible Democrats are wasting everyone''s time investigating the White House, performing oversight, trying to give children health insurance, and end the war. Why can''t they just take Britney Spears'' advice and just trust the President? Look how well it has worked for her!

And what have these lazy Democrats actually accomplished, anyway? All they''ve managed to do is hold 943 roll call votes, which is a pitiful number! You have to go all the way back to 1978 to come up with a number even close to 943! And what have the passed? Come on, 9/11 Commission recommendations, increase in minimum wage, children''s health care, veterans benefits, and stem cell research. What a bunch of do-nothings!

[radiob-2009]

The inexperienced incompetents are the ones in the White House now.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Iceman_1960


They have tons of experience at being incompetent.
Tar and feather all of them.

[simonsez40]

And what have the passed? Come on, 9/11 Commission recommendations, increase in minimum wage, children''''s health care, veterans benefits, and stem cell research. What a bunch of do-nothings!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by blancadebree

Hey bub what about the last 7 years? And the Repug''s aren''t responsible for anything? Amazing how you walk around with BLINDERS!
The Dem''s can''t get anything done because your rich, pompous, arrogant and criminal Republicans won''t LET ANYTHING GET DONE - it''s call roadblocking what the American people want (what the Dem''s are trying to do....) Pull your head out of the sand....or out of the Repug''s butt!

[ov442]

The problem is that we just havent gotten rid of enough republicans yet. We need to send more of these guys off to pasture in their corrupt corporate retirements of big salaries for all the fraud they let go by them and sc7ew the american public for the last decade

[realpatriot1]

ov442,

You haven''t been paying attention. Congress keeps passing legislation and Bush keeps vetoeing.

The do-nothing government begins and ends at the White House.

[jon_mccain]

Posted by simonsez40

Simonsez40, I believe you missed the sarcasm that post was dripping in.

[realpatriot1]

ov442,

My apologies! My comments were meant for blancadebree, not you.

Your comment was right on the money!

[mike71067]

"Dems'' Low Poll Numbers May Not Mean Defeat"

Wow. The libs really know how to polish a turdd, don''t they?

[mike71067]

"You haven''''t been paying attention. Congress keeps passing legislation and Bush keeps vetoeing. The do-nothing government begins and ends at the White House."
-Posted by realpatriot1 at 09:41 AM : Nov 02, 2007

No, it begins in Congress. If they keep passing crapp, the President''s job is to veto it. And that''s what he''s been doing. Perhaps the Dumbocrats should stop trying to give free handouts to illegal immigrants. Then you will see the President sign the bill.

[iceman_1960]

Few in Congress can match the unpopularity of George W*anker Bush, measured by subtracting their disapproval number from their approval number:

In order of UNPOPULARITY:

Jon Kyl (R) 14% approval - 46% disapproval = -32
Harry Reid (D) 21% - 48% = -27
George W. Bush: 37% - 62% = -25
Russ Feingold (D) 18% - 41% = -23
John Booehner (R) 14% - 36% = -22
James Clyburn (D) 13% - 34% = -21
Steny Hoyer (D) 15% - 36% = -21
John Cornyn (R) 15% - 35% = -20
Richard Durbin (D) 16% - 35% = -19
Mitch McConnell (R) 19% - 37% = -18
John Murtha (D) 23% - 41% = -18
Roy Blunt (R) 14% - 31% = -17
Jim DeMint (R) 15% - 32% = -17
Jeff Sessions (R) 17% - 34% = -17
Nancy Pelosi (D) 37% - 53% = -16
D*ick Lugar (R) 24% - 37% = -13
John Kerry (D) 42% - 54% = -12
Trent Lott (R) 31% - 43% = -12
John Dingell (D) 14% - 25% = -11
Charles Rangel (D) 20% - 31% = -11
Ted Kennedy (D) 43% - 52% = -9
Chuck Hagel (R) 22% - 29% = -7
Henry Waxman (D) 19% - 26% = -7
James Webb (D) 24% - 31% = -7
Evan Bayh (D) 22% - 27% = -5
Mel Martinez (R) 25% - 24% = +1

Sources:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_updates/president_bush_job_approval


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/favorables/favorables_for_u_s_congress

[iceman_1960]

"John Booehner (R) 14% - 36% = -22"

By a strange coincidence, John Boehner (R) has exactly the same numbers.

[iceman_1960]

What"s that da*mned "/n" doing there ?

http://www.rasmussenre
ports.com/public_content/politics/politi
cal_updates/president_bush_job_approval

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public
_content/politics/favorables/favorables_
for_u_s_congress

[iceman_1960]

Third time"s the charm...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_updates/president_bush_job_approval

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/favorables/favorables_for_u_s_congress

[iceman_1960]

George W. Bush: 37% - 62% = -25

That 62% disapproval rating is awesome.

No one on the list is anywhere near that figure.

He must be doing something wrong, in the eyes of the American people.

[bm6005]

Every single member of CONgress needs to be introduced to the unemployment line. Everyone agrees but they continue to send these clowns back for life. Wake up fools. Your reps are not any better than the others so fire them ALL!!!

[mudrose-2009]

"Dems'''' Low Poll Numbers May Not Mean Defeat"

Wow. The libs really know how to polish a turdd, don''''t they?

Posted by mike71067

Just keep watching these posts. You ain''t seen the heights they will go to to toot their horns.

[iceman_1960]

"Every single member of CONgress needs to be introduced to the unemployment line."
- Posted by bm6005 at 10:16 AM : Nov 02, 2007

I"d send a few of the married ones there as well.

[iceman_1960]

"Just keep watching these posts."
- Posted by mudrose at 10:17 AM : Nov 02, 2007

"Keep watching the skies !" - concluding words of "The Thing from Another World"

...Just in case some more of Ronald Reagan"s UFO"s show up.

I"m glad we finally found something we agree on, mudrose.

Those who claim to have seen UFO"s are demented. They are nutcases.

[iceman_1960]

Coincidentally, Jimmy Carter on TV this morning, was asked about Dennis Kucinich"s claim to have seen a UFO.

Carter just laughed and said that "space men and space ships" visiting earth, is an impossibility. The UUFO he claims he saw was just that, and unidentified flying object that he and 25 other people saw once.

Ronald Reagan actually claimed to have pursued an alien craft in his airplane once, and excited laughter by mentioning extraterrestrial space ships during a U.N. speech.

We know who the nutcases are.

[radiob-2009]

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1918



The very same can be spoken about congress, treason is stemming from both houses on both sides of the aisle.

[cfin5]

To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1918



The very same can be spoken about congress, treason is stemming from both houses on both sides of the aisle.

Posted by radiob at 11:10 AM : Nov 02, 2007
I agree 100%......Does a servant command the owners what to say and/or believe?

[mudrose-2009]

Low Numbers Polls not Necessarily Defeat. Well, then I guess it can only mean IQ.

[s1ckd09]

We know who the nutcases are.
------------------------------------------------

Posted by Iceman_1960 at 10:40 AM : Nov 02, 2007

Yes, people who take things out of context or take non-credible sources as fact.

First, I am not believeing or disbelieving the story of Reagan''s UFO sighting. But all versions of that story lead back to a single original source: A National Enquirer article of 10/11/1988. Personally, I don''t find the NE as a credible source, but that''s just me.
Second, the U.N. speech, whenever it is quoted, conveniently leaves off the last sentence, which illustrates his use of analogy.

Reagan : "In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet, I ask ''is not an alien force ALREADY among us?'' What could be more alien to the universal aspirations of our peoples than war and the threat of war?"

Of course, if you leave off that last sentence, you would think he''s a nutcase, so that''s what people do:

Change the facts to support the theory!

[one_american]

Did you know - 85% of all statistics are erroneous and made up on the spot.

Heh heh.

[s1ckd09]

Oops... meant to include the link to the UN speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag44dRO8LEA

[geezer62]

toldyouso21, kansas1946 and OldProphet....
While I generally agree with you guys I tend to believe that the more things change the more they stay the same. You talk about our anger and frustration with the Bush administration and the fact that the Dems have done little to challenge it but the fact is that although we have a majority it isn''t big enough to overcome the opposition of the Reps. There have been some things that have been done in the last ten months but very little in the way of addressing the issues that we would like to change. You talk about Ron Paul and while I agree that he just may be what he appears to be he will never get the nomination of the Republican party. He marches to a different drummer and his party will never agree with his ideas. At this point I would be willing to vote for anyone, regardless of party affiliation, if they would address the issues that are really important. I feel your frustration and anger but I am afraid that we will see little in the way of change. I just hope that our future isn''t as bleak as I''m afraid that it will be. Thanks for your thoughts.

[geezer62]

s1ckd09...
Nice post. Isn''t it amazing what the omission of one sentence can do?

[geezer62]

mudrose...
How irrelevant your comments are. But please keep posting because you are entitled to your two cents worth.

[mudrose-2009]

mudrose...
How irrelevant your comments are. But please keep posting because you are entitled to your two cents worth.
Posted by geezer62

Glad you think they are irrelevant since Americans have been dumbed down they usually cannot tell the difference between relevant or irrelevant. So, I''m not surprised by your response.

[geezer62]

mudrose...
Oh how I would like to sit down with you over a cup of coffee and go at it. I could never change your mind and you could never change mine but it sure be fun to defend our positions. At first I got pissed reading your posts but then I began to enjoy disagreing with you. I really meant it when I said to keep posting. The simple fact that we can agree to disagree is what this wonderful country is all about. Have a good one.

[usprophet]

You get the sense that our country is desperate for someone to show us the way. Not the old way. Not the same way, but a NEW WAY. Think about this for a minute. What if we pulled all of our troops out of South Korea? They''ve been there for 50+ years. What if we quit worrying about Iran, but instead, realized that its having a nuclear weapon will not mean the end of the world? What if we pulled all of our troops out of the Middle-East, and brought them all home? What if we realistically addressed the National Debt, and paid attention to REALLY DOING SOMETHING about stopping illegal immigration? These are the ideas of Republican Presidential candidate, Dr. Ron Paul. He''s a ten term Congressman and a physician who has delivered over 4,000 babies. He''s an intellectual who''s published four books, three of which are devoted entirely to sound economics. He was raised on a dairy farm in Pennsylvania as a pious Lutheran, but now he attends a Baptist church. Paul is given to mulling things over morally. Whenever he recollects the helicopter pilots he treated as an Air Force Flight Surgeon (Captain) during the Vietnam War, a war which he now says was "totally unnecessary and illegal," he laments, "They were gung-ho. I%u2019ve often thought about how many of those people never came back." Candidates with the high level of personal integrity and proven track record of adherance to The Constitution, Congressman Paul has always demonstrated only come around once in a lifetime, if we''re lucky.