Is Waterboarding Torture? Mukasey Is Mum

Doubts Raised On Attorney General Nomination Following Tortured Testimony

(Washingtonpost.com)  This story was written by Washington Post staff writer Dan Eggen.

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A growing number of Senate Democrats who had previously praised attorney general nominee Michael B. Mukasey are now focusing on his refusal to answer a question about torture as a pivotal issue for his confirmation.

Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., D-Del., a member of the Judiciary Committee, yesterday joined other key Democrats in saying his vote will depend on whether Mukasey declares that a disputed CIA interrogation technique known as "waterboarding" qualifies as illegal torture under U.S. laws.

While no lawmaker has predicted Mukasey's defeat, several have suggested that his confirmation is less assured than it initially seemed.

Mukasey aroused lawmakers' concerns when he repeatedly declined to answer questions about waterboarding during the second day of his confirmation hearings. He said he was not sufficiently familiar with the practice to render an opinion.

"My support for Judge Mukasey's nomination depends in part on him stating clearly that waterboarding constitutes torture and that the president is bound by the law," Biden said in a statement.

His comments followed similar remarks on Thursday by Sens. Richard J. Durbin, D-Ill., the majority whip, and Patrick J. Leahy, D-Vt., the Judiciary chairman. Leahy has postponed a vote on Mukasey's nomination until he answers questions on waterboarding, surveillance and other issues. Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid, D-Nev., also told reporters the issue is important to his vote.

"For those of us who care about torture, his answer on waterboarding is very important," Durbin said in an interview yesterday. "I was looking for something different from Judge Mukasey, but so far his answers have been disappointing."

Legislative aides said other Democratic members of the panel are waiting for Mukasey's answers before deciding whether to support him.

The committee's ranking Republican, Sen. Arlen Specter, Pa., has also written a letter to Mukasey demanding answers about waterboarding and other issues. Other Republicans have said that because Mukasey had no connection to or knowledge of waterboarding, he should not have to answer questions about it.

The skepticism marks a shift from 10 days ago, when Reid, Leahy and other top Democrats praised Mukasey's qualifications and predicted his easy confirmation by the Senate.

The new pressure on the torture issue poses a political and legal challenge for the Bush administration, which officials have said authorized the use of waterboarding on at least three detainees kept in secret detention by the CIA after the Justice Department said it was legal. In appointing Mukasey, who had a reputation as a pragmatic outsider, administration officials sought to avoid a new fight over the controversial policies that tarred former attorney general Alberto R. Gonzales.

White House spokesman Tony Fratto said yesterday that Mukasey will answer lawmakers' questions as best he can but cautioned that Mukasey does not have the security clearances to be briefed on classified programs. "We think it still ought to be a sure thing," Fratto said.

A vote on Mukasey's nomination by the Judiciary Committee is unlikely for at least two weeks, legislative aides said yesterday. That means the nomination may come before the full Senate shortly before Thanksgiving.

Mukasey, a former federal prosecutor who served 18 years as a federal judge in New York, enjoyed the early and highly public support of Sen. Charles E. Schumer, D-N.Y. Schumer said this month that Mukasey was likely to be confirmed.

But Schumer spokesman Brian Fallon said yesterday that the waterboarding issue "raises serious concerns for the senator. ... He is waiting for Judge Mukasey's answers before passing any judgment."

The waterboarding tactic generally involves strapping the prisoner to a board, covering his face or mouth with a cloth, and pouring water over his face to create the sensation of drowning, according to human rights groups. The practice dates to at least the Spanish Inquisition, and has been prosecuted as torture in U.S. military courts since the Spanish-American War.

In testimony before the Judiciary panel on Oct. 18, Mukasey demurred when asked whether waterboarding constitutes torture and is therefore illegal. "I don't know what's involved in the technique," he said. "If waterboarding is torture, torture is not constitutional."

The committee's 10 Democrats responded on Tuesday with a letter to Mukasey demanding that he answer the question directly and noting that the practice is well enough known that the State Department routinely condemns its use in other countries. That letter, spearheaded by Durbin, stopped short of threatening opposition to Mukasey's nomination.

Bradford A. Berenson, a lawyer who worked in the White House counsel's office and who supports the nomination, said that "it's just unreasonable to expect him to express a firm view [on waterboarding] one way or the other unless he's more versed in the facts. It's not as if he went in there and told them it wasn't torture. He just wanted to be better informed."

Mukasey also testified that while the president could not authorize conduct that would violate torture laws, there may be occasions when the president's powers as commander in chief could trump a federal law requiring that a special court approve intelligence-related wiretaps.

In a letter to Leahy released by the senator yesterday, Mukasey reiterated that he believes the Constitution and U.S. statutes are explicit in forbidding torture but are less clear on the boundaries of surveillance. "The weight of authority indicates that warrantless surveillance to collect foreign intelligence is not unconstitutional so long as it is otherwise reasonable," Mukasey wrote.

[trillion1]

I think the fair thing to do would for him to volunteer to be waterboarded and then if he doesn''t think it''s torture go from there.

[steeepe]

The solution here is simple: make those who support water-boarding and amiguous interrogation techniques undergo them. Let Cheney, Mukasey, Bush, and the rabid neocons experience what they claim is mere discomfort and see if they change their minds.

[usmc1968]

This is just further proof the neo con right wing repubicans are todays modern day version of the Nazi party of world war II, they too felt the end justified the means, and saw no wrong in their actions, how ironic this great nation allowed these rascals too rise too power, but then people wondered post world war II why and how the german people allowed the Nazi''s too rise and gain power, same thing was done then as today, they used promises of good things for those who voted for them, created a boogie man enemy [jews, communists, homosexuals, mentally ill, etc], and felt no sin or guilt as they euthanized those they felt unfit for their society, today the republicans are doing the very same, promising things, creating fear of boogie man [moslem terrorists, homosexuals, mentally ill/criminals, etc.], and if you think they would not euthanize them if they could then I got some swamp land too sell you, instead of doing their evil in public formum they have their secret prisons, fake reasons for pre-emptive wars of ambition, anyone doubt Hitler used a fake staged incident too invade Poland...., no one seems too see the same old trickery used by those who view power as their "god given right", and everyone under them are mere peons too serve them and their elite ruling class....

[usmc1968]

I recently saw a article on how Rumsfeld was confronted for "war crimes charges on torture related too Abu Gharib prison among others", he was visiting somewhere in Europe, I predict one day when the power of the USA fades too a non existent super power as all would be empires do eventually, these evil men will be unable too travel anywhere in Europe or outside the USA for fear of arrest and trial in Hague for war crimes, one saw this with the dictator from Argentina, it may take many decades but it will come, since no empire has ruled supreme forever in this big world of ours, if one could take a "roman citizen, french citizen, english citizen, spanish citizen of a era when their nations were great and all powerful empires" and transport them to today, they would not likely be able too accept that their countries were not supreme anymore, but merely one of many nations, no longer the dominate power as it was in their era, same will come too the USA, no nation can rule 6 billion people, it just is not numerically possible, we are a nation of 300 million some odd people and too think we will rule forever as dominate race/culture over earth is vain, arrogance too the worst imaginable.

[trillion1]

Rummy was served papers in Paris and if you notice Kissinger doesn''t do alot of traveling outside the US.

[kesac4650]

Waterboarding is a form of phychological warfare. Torture leaves a person broken in body or mind, and waterboarding does neither. It leaves a person capable of performing evry skill today and tomorrow that he was capable of performing yesterday.
It has also gained us verifiable information that has saved tens of thousands of US lives.

[incog-nito]

kesac4650: WB can lead to death, and has been shown to cause lasting psychological damage to the recipient: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

[sendreidpelo]

If it is a choice between "waterboarding" or any other kind of intense interrogation of a known terrorist dirtbag and the death of one American - or even one million Americans in a major city, I''d gladly do the "waterboarding" myself.

If MoveOn.Org Party scum like Dic-less Durbin, Leahy, or Henry Waxboy don''t like it, tough. It''s time that they stopped wasting tax dollars on their salaries, were given a carbine, and told to fight Al Qaeda. If they refused, cowards as they are, fine - they can share a cell with Mukmud Abdulhole in Gitmo for all I care.

And if the Nazi bozos don''t like it, well, that one million Americans also applies to them too - even if they don''t want to be Americans. If they too are too f*cked up in their hate of Bush and this country, they too have options - Tehran or Gitmo or Gaza. No difference, the Hitlerjugend of the Left won''t be missed.

[sendreidpelo]

usmc68,

hmmmm, must be "former" usmcsgt or one of the other MoveOn.Org paid trolls and America-haters full of beans and champipple raving like the looneys they are - probably never served a day in their lives.

If they did, and truly opposed this war, they''d have better ways to convey it than behaving like a bunch of John Kerrys, or they''d come up with ways to victory - instead of their willingness to submit to the rules of the enemy.

Thank goodness this guy wasn''t on Guadalcanal in ''42 -he''d be waving the white flag in Tojo''s face, and dissing those like Barney Ross, Manila John, John Bauer, the Sullivan Brothers and others who acted like Marines, not MoveOn.Org stooges and clowns.

A Loser.

[sendreidpelo]

trillion,

nothing but a mere Nazi. His kind either goosestepped right alongside the SS or gleefully collaborated with them. No other way, this piece of manure would never be in any kind of Anti-Fascist resistance.

As for waterboarding, kindly come to my part of America and take a dose yourself - or move in with your fellow roaches and Hitler lovers in Tehran, bozo.

[sendreidpelo]

Interesting how some of these posters, who claim to be Americans and also claim (ridiculously) military service are the first to make excuses for terrorists, or scream at the way they are being treated (three meals, the Koran, and other liberties our people would never get - except a beheading)

These losers and Hitlerjugend insist that the President and Mukasey (who I believe is Arab-American himself) should be waterboarded. I think that these Neo-Nazis who obviously didn''t mind 3000 Americans butchered on 9/11 should be hanged. That is what you do to traitors. Shooting them shows respect, and is much too humane to Nazi scum who condone the killing of babies and women and who applaud the Islamofascists.

Start screaming hyenas, I really don''t give a hoot for what cowards and traitors think.

[sendreidpelo]

If Captain Pruneface Reid doesn''t like waterboarding, then he should get off his wrinkled anal cavity, stop wasting our dollars, and go off to Iraq and serve.

He has never put in one day of military service for this nation. In fact, he''s never served this nation, period (usmc1968 I CAN''T HEAR YOU - to paraphase a Marine actor who was probably more of the real thing than you''d ever be). If guys like usmc1968 aka formerusmcsgt or mcbozo aka mcvet, mcloser, loser71 or whatever his new name is today did actually serve, their venom should be directed at the MoveOn Party cowards like Reid, the Clintons, Dean, Pelosi and others who never did.

Unless they like goosestepping to their beloved Adolf''s speeches - just like these MoveOn cowards do.

[lloydbest1]

"The waterboarding tactic generally involves strapping the prisoner to a board, covering his face or mouth with a cloth, and pouring water over his face to create the sensation of drowning, according to human rights groups. The practice dates to at least the Spanish Inquisition, and has been prosecuted as torture in U.S. military courts since the Spanish-American War."
What''s not mentioned is the water can come at any time; can range in temperature from scalding to freezing and can be applied with enough quantity and force that a person can not get air. Do that continuously for 3 or 4 minutes and you can suffocate your prisoner.
The not-too-liberal John McCain claimed waterboarding IS torture and was quoted as saying it''s no different than putting a pistol to someone''s head and firing a blank.
Mr. Mukasey needs to think long and hard about this question and consider the impact a "no, it''s not" would have. The man already has two glaring strikes against him. One: Mr. Bush thinks highly enough of Mukasey''s political leanings to have nominated him in the first place and Two: his accepting it.

[sendreidpelo]

Lloydworst,

YOU have two glaring strikes against you.

One, you obviously don''t care about what happened to Americans on 9/11. You seem to think that those on Gitmo are nice innocent kids and old men who did nothing to get there.

I guess you''d rather America face 1000 Bataan Death Marches for one Hiroshima.

Two, you''re a typical MoveOn.Org Party stooge.

Care to know what the third strike is, bozo?

[sendreidpelo]

Almost of the Hitlerjugend and Bozo Losers and Cowards who are posting their shrill today have a basic problem with Mukasey anyway - he''s Republican and the President likes him.

I know who their choice for Attorney General would be - the bumbling, pro-Nazi, I''ve never met a torturer or babykilling dictator I didn''t like toilet bowl scum by the name of Ramsey Clark.

By the way he was Attorney General under Johnson - who couldn''t stand his Stalinist ways and booted him. Even Jimmy Carter, coward and Klan acolyte that he is, to his dismay learned that Clark would soon take the pay of the Ayatollahs than defend Americans.

But hey, he''d let all of the Gitmo roaches go so they could inflict more 9/11s on America - no problems for the MoveOn.Org and Code Pink hyena brigades.

[tylenol6]

Maybe we should waterboard Mr. Mukasey and then ask, "
Is waterboarding torture?"

[trillion1]

kesac, I would like to see you sit there calmly while they pull out your finger nails. Heck, they''ll grow back and by your discription it wouldn''t be torture. SRP is just the lunitic fringe. Big talker on the keyboard.

[andor3]

of course it is torture. only a coward would deny this or defend such a practice. as always, the true cowards are the ones trying to throw the label at everyone else.

[andor3]

And by the way the MoveOn.org folks and the liberal ARE the ones showing courage, standing up, and defending America. It''s pretty easy and wimpy to just say "whatever you say" to those who are trying to undermine America and happen to be occupying the jobs of president, VP, etc.

[jumkey]

SendReidPelo is a funny monkey, but a consistent fascist.

How can you be a Jew AND a Hitler lover? I never get that.

[dsproull]

Well we can bet with total assurance this is another cronie that will leave with plunty of our Money, as the rest have done.

[wogerwabbit]

Boy, Bush should tap this SendReidPelo dude as minister of propaganda, he can really spin a tale. Notice how he''s wrong about everything... he''d fit right in.

[rickstas]

Why don''t YOU go to Iraq and serve, SendReidPelo?

[bobgee_1999]

SendReidPelo demonstrates the Right''s attitude perfectly: they''re only opposed to fascism in other people''s governments. In ours, it seems to be perfectly ok by them.

[zzamerican66]

"Torture, according to international law, is any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining information or a confession."

Waterboarding is torture. I don''t see why this is such a hard question for a judge to answer. Duh, I don''t know what that is..... and we are still considering him for Attorney General. The real question for the judge is what are you going to do about agencies and people who practice this technique and other forms of torture?

[ioweign]

Thank goodness this guy wasn''''t on Guadalcanal in ''''42 -he''''d be waving the white flag in Tojo''''s face, and dissing those like Barney Ross, Manila John, John Bauer, the Sullivan Brothers and others who acted like Marines, not MoveOn.Org stooges and clowns.

A Loser.


Posted by SendReidPelo at 03:14 PM : Oct 27, 2007

Hey Nimrod - the Sullivan Brothers were sailors and stay away from the caffine - brother are you a gufus !

[speakinup]

"SendReidPelo demonstrates the Right''s attitude perfectly: they''re only opposed to fascism in other people''s governments. In ours, it seems to be perfectly ok by them. Posted by bobgee_1999

You are ignorant bobgee. I don''t say that in anger. I say it because you don''t have any idea of what fascism really is, otherwise you wouldn''t make such a foolish bias statement.

Do yourself a favor - look it up on wikipedia - then let us know why I''m right. That way you won''t look so dumb to others.

It''s ok to hate Republicans, but by condemming them all, based on your limited exposure is nothing more than showing your prejudice. Another endearing quality to those that might read your post.

If you are here to Bush Bash, or hate - swing away. You only strengthen your opposition each time you do it.

[ajayvee]

As long as Bush is the only person authorized to determine what is and what isn''t torture, water-boarding will not be torture. So now the US is on the same UN list of countries that torture, along with Syria, Israel, the Yemen, Egypt, Afghanistan, the Sudan and Turkey, and Bush-Cheney will retire with their millions in 2009 without ever seeing the inside of a court room for crimes against humanity. In the meantime every new ruptured bowel or crushed testicle brings euphoric elation to the evangelical right. How in heck did we get here?

[alphaa10-2009]

Very pleased the Democrats are together on this one. Bush has been content to play gridlock since 2007 began, and his attitude is quintessentially "sour grapes" to losing control of congress.

Sour grapes, or not, this is the Bush who confessed-- visibly shaken by the 2006 election-- "The people have spoken."

Current Bush provocations continue in the Gonzales fashion of "I cannot remember" or "I do not know"-- not to mention running a candidate past the Senate who pretends not to understand what waterboarding is all about.

We can imagine Mukasey sending a "Thank You" note to Sen. Biden, after his confirmation,

"Thanks for your vote, Joe. I consider it an honor to have assisted the Senate in its recent deliberation on my qualifications.

By the way, Joe, waterboarding is legal."

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Perhaps we should waterboard Mukasey himself to provide him with a better, more exact basis for his appraisal of the technique.

[kesac4650]

Waterboarding is no more torture than giving your kid a swat on the butt, to get them to straighten up. In neither case is any one actually hurt except for a bruised little ego.
Neither works off the pain involved, but the phsychological value.

[kesac4650]

Waterboarding is no more torture than giving your kid a swat on the butt, to get them to straighten up. In neither case is any one actually hurt except for a bruised little ego.
Neither works off the pain involved, but the phsychological value.

[jowand]

isn''''t it surfing we are Americans we would Never go against the Geneva Convention after all our president was in the service during the Viet Nam War was he????
Posted by jerryomara at 06:12 PM : Oct 27, 2007

How many people have drowned from water boarding?

Water boarding dates to the Spanish Inquisition. Enough said.....It is not worth having such a practice in our interrogation methods. It is a disgusting, vicious practice unworthy of America!

[cbs_oliver]

The correct answer here is to reject the nomination of a candidate who refuses to answer or quibbles or whose answers show he/she is torture friendly.

There is no need to wait for him to consider the matter further.

[cfin5]

Hmmmmm, Maybe he''s fresh off a personal "demonstration" to MAKE him take the job. If he screws up.....Tsay haf vayz zu macht him takes die pozt vit a zmile! LOL!

[ajayvee]

kesac4650 wrote: Waterboarding is no more torture than giving your kid a swat on the butt, to get them to straighten up. ===================== Please let us know if you practise what you preach so we can have Children''s Services look into it.

[fibonacci_]

I once heard Bush say that or interrogation techniques were not against the geneva convention and "within US law".

Is it legal to take some guys head and put it under water? Sounds like assault to me. Not that I feel very sorry when they do it to people that are admitted al qaeda members.

[smirk5]

Someone should strap Mukasey onto a chair in a reclining position. I bet nearly anyone at that point who has a cloth and several pitchers of water could get Mukasey to scream out that waterboard is indeed torture within just a few seconds or minutes. He would be very clear in his opinion.

[sftodd]

This is so disgusting, to watch my country stoop to this level. Is torture torture? That''s really the question. If we call it "enhanced interrogation" instead of what it is, does that make us any less dispicable for doing it? Are conservatives in this country smart enough to understand why 20 years ago, no one was talking about "enhanced interrogation"? That''s because what the Bush administration is calling enhanced interrogation is what decent human beings call "torture." It''s very dishonest of our president, who we well know is not above lying, to redefine torture so that the republican sheep in this country think we are not engaging in torture. Bush is a vial and disgusting person, period. He should be tried for crimes against humanity.

[sftodd]

Waterboarding is no more torture than giving your kid a swat on the butt, to get them to straighten up. In neither case is any one actually hurt except for a bruised little ego.
Neither works off the pain involved, but the phsychological value.
Posted by kesac4650 at 06:50 PM : Oct 27, 2007

You have got to be borderline mentally retarded. The technique would not be used if it were not torture. You think a suspect''s going to crack because a swat on the butt? You are truly the stuff republicans are made of, pure ignorance and stupidity.

[kjunrj-2009]

By now everyone in America knows what waterboarding is and they know its torture (especially those in high office)! If an official applying for the office of AG says he''s not sure what waterboarding is so he can''t define it as torture then he has no business applying for the office of AG!

[usaprophet]

I''m sick of secret offshore prisons like the one in Guantanamo, where our government tortures prisoners, who have no right to redress of grievance, or to writ of habeus corpus. Ron Paul promises he will close these "illegal prisons" down. He wouldn''t necessarily just release the prisoners either. He said he would bring them to detainment facilities on U.S. soil where they would be entitled to have a lawyer and their day in court--justice. Others agree with Paul. "Essentially, we have shaken the belief that the world had in America''s justice system by keeping a place like Guantanamo open and creating things like a military commission," former U.S. Secretary of State, Colin Powell recently said. "What can I do about it," you ask? Support the 2008 candidacy of Dr. Ron Paul for President. I believe he''s our only hope to restore peace, prosperity and freedom in this country. Throw-out the New World Order Neocons and their Socialist comrades in crime. Both groups consider themselves above the Law. Vote for a REAL American who will restore peace, prosperity and freedom to this country. Presidential candidates with the integrity and bearing the positive message of Dr. Paul only come around only once in a lifetime, if we''re lucky. The cause of freedom is too important to let anything stand in the way of our participation in this 21st Century political revolution. Don''t let the opportunity to support Dr. Paul slip by.

[jowand]

By now everyone in America knows what waterboarding is and they know its torture (especially those in high office)! If an official applying for the office of AG says he''''s not sure what waterboarding is so he can''''t define it as torture then he has no business applying for the office of AG!

Posted by kjunrj at 09:25 PM : Oct 27, 2007

How many people have drowned from waterboarding, post a lifeguard that should help?

[jowand]

once heard Bush say that or interrogation techniques were not against the geneva convention and "within US law".

Is it legal to take some guys head and put it under water? Sounds like assault to me. Not that I feel very sorry when they do it to people that are admitted al qaeda members.

Posted by fibonacci_ at 08:54 PM : Oct 27, 2007

So long as you don''t drown him, how many have drowned from waterboarding. It''s all about the 00 and 04 elections still, get over it.

[jowand]

Presidential candidates with the integrity and bearing the positive message of Dr. Paul only come around only once in a lifetime, if we''''re lucky. The cause of freedom is too important to let anything stand in the way of our participation in this 21st Century political revolution. Don''''t let the opportunity to support Dr. Paul slip by.

Posted by thefarrier at 09:30 PM : Oct 27, 2007

Ron Paul is a George McGovern with a medical degree.

[mobydick14]

Words have meaning usually because people agree on what they mean. When President Clinton said "I didn''t have *** with that woman," whether or not he had "***" was a matter of whether what he did (or allegedly did) was "***" or something outside that definition. Unfortunately, some words have independent, commonly accepted meaning. "Torture" is certainly one of them. When someone asked Justice Potter Stewart to define pornography, he said he "could not define it, but he knew it when he saw it." If our prospective attorney general candidate doesn''t know that, he''s not our man.

[sftodd]

Ron Paul is a George McGovern with a medical degree.
Posted by jowand at 09:53 PM : Oct 27, 2007

And you are a jacka$$ without a brain. At least Ron Paul is honest, and no, I do not want him to be my president, but I assure you, it is for reasons you could not possibly comprehend.

[sharncedar]

Is it legal to take some guys head and put it under water? Sounds like assault to me. Not that I feel very sorry when they do it to people that are admitted al qaeda members.

Posted by fibonacci_ at 08:54 PM : Oct 27, 2007


After they were through with you,you would admit to being an al qaeda member too. That''s why its torture, and that''s why its bad intelligence gathering. People will say whateve to stop the torture. Fro example, they got Galileo during the Spanish Inquisition to deny his own theory that the earth goes around the sun. So the "intelligence gatherers" of that age got the very useful informatino that the earth is fixed in space, and is the center of the universe. Our little inquisition got the useful intelligence that Iraq was loaded with WMD.

This attorney general candidate is extremely stupid not to understand the futility and uselessness of torture. Maybe when every idiot and moron in America has served in the government, we will finally get someone with basic ability to govern our nation.

[trillion1]

To the right wing if it doesn''t kill you it''s not torture. We are dealing with a very sick group of people here who are dragging the countrys name throught the mud.

[toolmangler-2009]

Walter Williams, economics Prof at a Maryland University is my best pick for President.