Is Waterboarding Torture? Mukasey Is Mum

Doubts Raised On Attorney General Nomination Following Tortured Testimony

(Washingtonpost.com)  This story was written by Washington Post staff writer Dan Eggen.

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A growing number of Senate Democrats who had previously praised attorney general nominee Michael B. Mukasey are now focusing on his refusal to answer a question about torture as a pivotal issue for his confirmation.

Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., D-Del., a member of the Judiciary Committee, yesterday joined other key Democrats in saying his vote will depend on whether Mukasey declares that a disputed CIA interrogation technique known as "waterboarding" qualifies as illegal torture under U.S. laws.

While no lawmaker has predicted Mukasey's defeat, several have suggested that his confirmation is less assured than it initially seemed.

Mukasey aroused lawmakers' concerns when he repeatedly declined to answer questions about waterboarding during the second day of his confirmation hearings. He said he was not sufficiently familiar with the practice to render an opinion.

"My support for Judge Mukasey's nomination depends in part on him stating clearly that waterboarding constitutes torture and that the president is bound by the law," Biden said in a statement.

His comments followed similar remarks on Thursday by Sens. Richard J. Durbin, D-Ill., the majority whip, and Patrick J. Leahy, D-Vt., the Judiciary chairman. Leahy has postponed a vote on Mukasey's nomination until he answers questions on waterboarding, surveillance and other issues. Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid, D-Nev., also told reporters the issue is important to his vote.

"For those of us who care about torture, his answer on waterboarding is very important," Durbin said in an interview yesterday. "I was looking for something different from Judge Mukasey, but so far his answers have been disappointing."

Legislative aides said other Democratic members of the panel are waiting for Mukasey's answers before deciding whether to support him.

The committee's ranking Republican, Sen. Arlen Specter, Pa., has also written a letter to Mukasey demanding answers about waterboarding and other issues. Other Republicans have said that because Mukasey had no connection to or knowledge of waterboarding, he should not have to answer questions about it.

The skepticism marks a shift from 10 days ago, when Reid, Leahy and other top Democrats praised Mukasey's qualifications and predicted his easy confirmation by the Senate.

The new pressure on the torture issue poses a political and legal challenge for the Bush administration, which officials have said authorized the use of waterboarding on at least three detainees kept in secret detention by the CIA after the Justice Department said it was legal. In appointing Mukasey, who had a reputation as a pragmatic outsider, administration officials sought to avoid a new fight over the controversial policies that tarred former attorney general Alberto R. Gonzales.

White House spokesman Tony Fratto said yesterday that Mukasey will answer lawmakers' questions as best he can but cautioned that Mukasey does not have the security clearances to be briefed on classified programs. "We think it still ought to be a sure thing," Fratto said.

A vote on Mukasey's nomination by the Judiciary Committee is unlikely for at least two weeks, legislative aides said yesterday. That means the nomination may come before the full Senate shortly before Thanksgiving.

Mukasey, a former federal prosecutor who served 18 years as a federal judge in New York, enjoyed the early and highly public support of Sen. Charles E. Schumer, D-N.Y. Schumer said this month that Mukasey was likely to be confirmed.

But Schumer spokesman Brian Fallon said yesterday that the waterboarding issue "raises serious concerns for the senator. ... He is waiting for Judge Mukasey's answers before passing any judgment."

The waterboarding tactic generally involves strapping the prisoner to a board, covering his face or mouth with a cloth, and pouring water over his face to create the sensation of drowning, according to human rights groups. The practice dates to at least the Spanish Inquisition, and has been prosecuted as torture in U.S. military courts since the Spanish-American War.

In testimony before the Judiciary panel on Oct. 18, Mukasey demurred when asked whether waterboarding constitutes torture and is therefore illegal. "I don't know what's involved in the technique," he said. "If waterboarding is torture, torture is not constitutional."

The committee's 10 Democrats responded on Tuesday with a letter to Mukasey demanding that he answer the question directly and noting that the practice is well enough known that the State Department routinely condemns its use in other countries. That letter, spearheaded by Durbin, stopped short of threatening opposition to Mukasey's nomination.

Bradford A. Berenson, a lawyer who worked in the White House counsel's office and who supports the nomination, said that "it's just unreasonable to expect him to express a firm view [on waterboarding] one way or the other unless he's more versed in the facts. It's not as if he went in there and told them it wasn't torture. He just wanted to be better informed."

Mukasey also testified that while the president could not authorize conduct that would violate torture laws, there may be occasions when the president's powers as commander in chief could trump a federal law requiring that a special court approve intelligence-related wiretaps.

In a letter to Leahy released by the senator yesterday, Mukasey reiterated that he believes the Constitution and U.S. statutes are explicit in forbidding torture but are less clear on the boundaries of surveillance. "The weight of authority indicates that warrantless surveillance to collect foreign intelligence is not unconstitutional so long as it is otherwise reasonable," Mukasey wrote.

[usaprophet]

You get the sense that the country is desperate for someone to show us the way. Not the old way. Not the same way, but a NEW WAY. Think about this for a minute. What if we pulled all of our troops out of South Korea? They''ve been there for 50 years. Tens of thousands of them. What if we quit worrying about Iran, but instead, realized that its having a nuclear weapon will not mean the end of the world? What if we pulled all of our troops out of Iraq, and brought them all home? What if we realistically addressed the National Debt, and paid attention to REALLY DOING SOMETHING about stopping illegal immigration? These are the ideas Republican Presidential candidate, Dr. Ron Paul. He''s a ten term Congressman and a physician who has delivered over 4,000 babies. Ron Paul has been married to the same woman for more than 50 years, which means he doesn''t come to the race with the sort of baggage some of the other candidates for the White House do. Paul is given to mulling things over morally. He once was once a pious Lutheran, but now attends a Baptist church. He never travels alone with women, and once even dressed-down an aide for using the expression "red-light district" in front of a female colleague. I support the 2008 candidacy of Congressman, Ron Paul for President of The United States. Candidates with the high level of personal integrity and track record of adherance to The Constitution Ron Paul always demonstrates only come around once in a lifetime, if we''re lucky. Go Ron!

[chef1a1]

tell me you looney lib''s, what''s more tortureous,having your head pulled back by the hair and your head slowly sawed off or waterboarding? Our barbaric enemy cut''s people''s head''s off and post''s it on the web for all the world to see. Do you terrorist sympathizing fool''s fail to see the difference?

[sgtrds]

The litmus test should be that we try it on Bush and Cheney and if makes those two ******* cry then it''s torture..........

[usaprophet]

Ron Paul does not support secret offshore prisons like the one in Guantanamo, where our government tortures prisoners, who have no right to redress of grievance, or to writ of habeus corpus. Ron Paul promises he will close these "illegal prisons" down. He wouldn''t necessarily just release the prisoners either. He said he would bring them to detainment facilities on U.S. soil where they would be entitled to an attorney, and to their day in Court--American Justice. Significant others agree with Paul. "Essentially, we have shaken the belief that the world had in America''s justice system by keeping a place like Guantanamo open and creating things like a military commission," former U.S. Secretary of State, Colin Powell said recently. "What can I do about it," you ask? Support the 2008 candidacy of Dr. Ron Paul for President. I believe he''s our only hope to restore peace, prosperity and freedom in this country. Throw-out the New World Order Fascists and their Socialist comrades in crime. Both groups consider themselves above the Constitution. Vote for a REAL American who will restore peace, prosperity and freedom to this country. Presidential candidates with the integrity and bearing the positive message of Dr. Paul only come around only once in a lifetime, if we''re lucky. The cause of freedom is too important to let anything stand in the way of our participation in this 21st Century political revolution. Don''t let the opportunity to support Dr. Paul slip by.

[prinzowhales]

If the Sierra-Oscar-Bravo won''t say whether or not its torture then I suggest that he be waterboarded until he can decide. If the Democrats allow this animal into the AG''s office, its just another slap in the face to those who look to it as an alternative to Bush and the criminals that comprise his Administration.

[taotxzen]

Mukasey Won%u2019t Say Waterboarding Is Torture But in 1947 the U.S. Called It a War Crime, Sentenced Enemy Officer to 15 Years Hard Labor

Posted by Jon Ponder | Oct. 29, 2007, 12:30 pm

Immoral Relativism: George Bush%u2019s nomination of Michael Mukasey for U.S. attorney general %u2014 once thought to be smooth sailing %u2014 is experiencing a bit of turbulence. The problem is, Mukasey can%u2019t bring himself to say whether or not waterboarding is torture:

''I don%u2019t know what%u2019s involved in the techniques. If waterboarding is torture, torture is not constitutional.''
%u2013 Mukasey

(cont)

[taotxzen]

(cont)

During his confirmation hearings earlier this month, Mukasey said he believes torture violates the Constitution, but he refused to be pinned down on whether he believes specific interrogation techniques, such as waterboarding, are constitutional.
''I don%u2019t know what%u2019s involved in the techniques. If waterboarding is torture, torture is not constitutional,'' he said.

But after World War II, the United States government was quite clear about the fact that waterboarding was torture, at least when it was done to U.S. citizens:
[In] 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.

''Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor,'' Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) told his colleagues last Thursday during the debate on military commissions legislation. ''We punished people with 15 years of hard labor when waterboarding was used against Americans in World War II,''he said.

[usaprophet]

Most Americans just don''t seem to care that our country, along with the Constitution upon which it was founded, is being flushed-down the NWO toilet by our nations ruling elite. Most of Congress and the President warn and insite fear in the sheeple about the prospect of terrorism, while they at the same time fund and conduct illegal wars overseas that do nothing but encite the terrorism which they say their new Draconian Laws like the Patriot Act and The Real ID Act pretend to protect us from. Think about it. What would you do, if someone invaded the U.S. for no reason, and took over. You''d be mad as hell, and you''d be making trips to their country in order to give a little payback. Wake up America! It''s not about protecting you from terrorism, or saving our planet from Global Warming, or any of that fear-mongering garbage the tube feeds you 24/7. It''s about feeding the military industrial complex and facilitating the ruling elite''s ability to ratchet-down control over the American people, placing us into a total control grid where they can surveille, track and control everywhere we go and everything we do. It''s the groundwork for totalitarianism. I weep for my country, and for those who are so distracted, dumbed-down, or outright brainwashed by mainstream media, which endlessly regurgitates scientifically-crafted streams of information aimed at keeping their eyes closed to the realities of the world around them, that they fail to recognize this. Go Ron Paul!.

[kansas1946]

s a d i s t. That was "starred" out in my post. I wasn''t aware that was an objectional word.

[kansas1946]

Are these nuts that Bush picks totally INSANE???? If someone can''t figure out if waterboarding is torture, then they are either a ***, insane, or have a really low IQ, none of which we would want as AG. If this guy can''t answer this question, then he should not be confirmed, period.

[nirak2-2009]

I wonder what Guiliani would say if he heard our troops are getting waterboarded.
I bet you, he would call it torture.
Guiliani you are a LIAR, CHEAT AND CROOK

[mudrose-2009]

Posted by thefarrier

Rubbish!

[usaprophet]

Ron Paul does not support secret offshore prisons like the one in Guantanamo, where our government tortures prisoners, who have no right to redress of grievance, or to writ of habeus corpus. Ron Paul promises he will close these "illegal prisons" down. He wouldn''t necessarily just release the prisoners either. He said he would bring them to detainment facilities on U.S. soil where they would be entitled to an attorney and to their day in court--American Justice. Others agree with Paul. "Essentially, we have shaken the belief that the world had in America''s justice system by keeping a place like Guantanamo open and creating things like a military commission," former U.S. Secretary of State, Colin Powell recently said. "What can I do about it," you ask? Support the 2008 candidacy of Dr. Ron Paul for President. I believe he''s our only hope to restore peace, prosperity and freedom in this country. Throw-out the New World Order Fascists and their Socialist comrades in crime. Both groups consider themselves above the Law. Vote for a REAL American who will restore peace, prosperity and freedom to this country. Presidential candidates with the integrity and bearing the positive message of Dr. Paul only come around only once in a lifetime, if we''re lucky. The cause of freedom is too important to let anything stand in the way of our participation in this 21st Century political revolution. Don''t let the opportunity to support Dr. Paul slip by.

[usbrit-2009]

I wonder what you would consider "torture" if your kids'''' lives depended on that information.

Posted by s1ckd09 at 02:40 PM : Oct 29, 2007

No, in that case I''d probably read up real quick on that old I.R.A. standard, "kneecapping."

"Seriously now Folks." Here we''re talking government sanctioned torture, which, in my opinion, is a whole different kettle of fish. As was noted earlier (several pages ago on this thread) WB''ing was a considered a war crime by the American prosecutors after WWII. Therefore, how can this government say it''s OK when we do it, but it wasn''t when the Gestapo did it, and retain any credibility with the rest of the world?

[s1ckd09]

The simple truth is that people such as toldyouso and myself are perfectly open to listening to alternate opinions and/or philosophies. It''''s just we have decided, after much deliberation, that people who still believe anything the neo-cons say are completely, 100% wrong about everything!!

------------------

Posted by USBrit at 02:38 PM : Oct 29, 2007

Well, at least you admit to being close-minded.

[s1ckd09]

I seriously doubt you would welcome a false accusation and someone coming to your home to torture you or your kids to force you to tell them the "truth" for any reason.

Posted by toldyouso21 at 10:44 AM : Oct 29, 2007

I also seriously doubt that if a person told you that your kids were going to die in 2 hours, that you wouldn''t take every means necessary to find out from that person where your kids are. Or would you just say, "No, my kids'' lives aren''t as important as making the person who can prevent it believe that they are drwoning." I wonder what you would consider "torture" if your kids'' lives depended on that information.

[usbrit-2009]

Posted by s1ckd09 at 02:15 PM : Oct 29, 2007

The fact that you cannot accept people with opinions other than your own as nothing more than "zombies", "empty, mindless vessels", "unable to think for themselves", subject to "ludicrous, evil, heinous, insipid and ridiculous" thoughts from "the bad guys", shows what an elitist snob you are, and how you yourself are incapable of grasping the simple truth.

The simple truth is that people such as toldyouso and myself are perfectly open to listening to alternate opinions and/or philosophies. It''s just we have decided, after much deliberation, that people who still believe anything the neo-cons say are completely, 100% wrong about everything!!

[s1ckd09]

YOu treat others the way you want to be treated. I personally do not and would not want to be tortured in any way--therefore, I am against torturing another person, --no matter what they may plan to do.
---------------------------

Posted by toldyouso21 at 10:44 AM : Oct 29, 2007

Treating someone else as you would like to be treated has nothing to do with torture. It has no effect on what someone who uses torture for the sake of torture. Do you think the Taliban or Al-Qaeda care what countries torture and which ones don''t? You can bet on one thing, all that someone has to do while in U.S. custody is CLAIM they were tortured, and they are automatically assumed to be telling the truth, and the U.S. is automatically condemned because of it.
I am against torture, because I agree that information obtained from torture is most often not accurate. However, interrogation techniques that are designed to break down a person''s resolve and defenses are effective. Regardless, false information serves NO purpose to anyone, as it wastes time and resources, so any practice that produces false information makes no sense. So then the debate has to become if certain techniques that are effective are classified as "torture", what do you do? One, we don''t know those techniques, and we don''t know the success or failure rate. So how can we even have a serious debate on this?

[usaprophet]

You get the sense that the country is desperate for someone to show us the way. Not the old way. Not the same way, but a NEW WAY. Think about this for a minute. What if we pulled all of our troops out of South Korea. They''ve been there for 50 years. Tens of thousands of them. What if we quit worring about Iran, and instead, realized that its having a nuclear weapon will not mean the end of the world. What if we pulled all of our troops out of Iraq, and brought them all home. What if we realistically addressed the National Debt, and paid attention to the huge burden we are placing on generations to come. Guess whose Ideas these are. They are the ideas Republican presidential candidate, Dr. Ron Paul. He''s a ten term Congressman and a physician who has delivered over 4,000 babies. Ron Paul has been married to the same woman for more than 50 years, which means he doesn''t come to the race with the sort of baggage some of the other candidates for the White House do. Paul is given to mulling things over morally. His family was pious and Lutheran; two of his brothers became ministers. Paul%u2019s five children were baptized in the Episcopal church, but he now attends a Baptist one. He doesn%u2019t travel alone with women, and once dressed down an aide for using the expression "red-light district" in front of a female colleague. I support the 2008 candidacy of Dr. Ron Paul for President of The United States. There''s a man with Presidential-like integrity and principles. Ron Paul has my vote.

[usbrit-2009]

Toldyouso21 - I totally agree with all your points. Yes, WB''ing is torture - visit the ex-Khmer Rouge prison of Tuol Sleng in Pnomh Penh, you''ll find plenty of examples of machinery for WB''ing. Yes, use of torture puts us on the slippery slope down towards the level of our enemies - we should be above atrocities. I love your description of the acolytes of Limpbore, O''Wrongly and That Blond as "empty, mindless vessels" (wish I''d come up with that one). Finally this latest idiot SendReidPelo is quite something. He calls everyone a Nazi when it is he himself who is one. He''d have been AH''s first choice as chief of the Gestapo if he''d been around in ''36. If you going to call the looney left anything, at least call them socialists. And before I get hammered for that, yes I do know that the Nazis started off as the "National Socialist German Workers'' Party," however, the aim of the party was much more fascist than it''s socio-communist name would suggest.