Grieving Dad Of Dead Marine Sues Church

Fundamentalist Church Picketed Funeral For Young Leatherneck Killed In Iraq

(AP)  The father of a Marine killed in Iraq took the stand in his invasion of privacy suit against a fundamentalist church that pickets soldiers' funerals, saying protesters carrying signs at his son's burial made him sick to his stomach.

Albert Snyder said he had hoped for a private funeral for his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder.

"They turned this funeral into a media circus and they wanted to hurt my family," Snyder testified Wednesday. "They wanted their message heard and they didn't care who they stepped over. My son should have been buried with dignity, not with a bunch of clowns outside."

Snyder is suing the Westboro Baptist church, whose members have picketed the funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, claiming the deaths are punishment for the country's tolerance of homosexuality.

The York, Pa., resident is seeking unspecified monetary damages in the case for invasion of privacy and intent to inflect emotional distress as a result of the Topeka, Kan., church's protest at his son's funeral in Westminster in March 2006.

The church's protests have inspired several state laws and a federal law about funeral protests, but the Maryland suit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.

Asked Wednesday about a sign that read "Thank God for dead soldiers," Snyder said he thinks about it daily.

"I see that sign when I lay in bed," Snyder said.

Asked about statements issued by the group that his son was raised to support the "Roman Catholic monstrosity" and then sent to fight for the "United States of Sodomy," Snyder said "they have no right to do this to people they didn't know."

During cross-examination, defense attorney Jonathan Katz focused on obituaries and death notices and questioned Snyder on whether they said the funeral services were private. Snyder replied that the notices said friends and family were welcome, but admitted that he did not know all of the 500 or so people who attended.

The case tests the limits of the First Amendment right to free speech.

U.S. District Richard Bennett instructed jurors at the start of testimony Tuesday that the First Amendment protection of free speech has limits, including vulgar, offensive and shocking statements. Bennett said the jurors must decide "whether the defendant's actions would be highly offensive to a reasonable person, whether they were extreme and outrageous, and whether these actions were so offensive and shocking as to not be entitled to First Amendment protection."

Church members said they are motivated by the fear of God and their need to warn America about its moral decay, rather than a desire to hurt anyone.

Katz told jurors Tuesday the protests took place 1,000 feet away from St. John Catholic Church, where the funeral was held, down a hill and out of sight and hearing from participants.

Snyder said American military personnel are in Iraq fighting for freedom of speech "they're not fighting for hate speech." One photo showing a child holding a sign at the funeral protest was particularly disturbing, the father said.

"I pray for their children. Their children need help. To be brought up with that kind of hatred," Snyder said.

"My God is loving God," Snyder said, adding later "I don't look for hatred in the Bible."

The church's founder and pastor, Fred Phelps, took the stand after Snyder and prompted a strong admonition from Bennett when the pastor said he had not considered whether children would see a sign carried by protesters with the words "Semper Fi Fags" and two stick figures that appear to be engaged in sodomy.

"No, it's an irrelevancy," Phelps said.

Bennett then interjected sharply.

"Just answer the question, sir. Don't determine what's relevant or not relevant. You just answer the question," Bennett said.

Phelps said he chose to use the term "fag" in the group's signs because it comes from scripture but could also have used Sodomite or dog. When asked by Katz why the group made a "Semper Fi Fags" sign, Phelps said it was in response to the need for a warning to the country "that your wicked ways are going to be your doom shortly."

Under cross-examination by the plaintiffs, Phelps agreed he did not believe his presence was wanted at the funeral and could just as easily have protested somewhere else.

[rational_1]

There''s never a deranged church burner around when you really need one?

[robjk1-2009]

If this stuff is true, it sure is crazy. I am a christian and believe homosexuality is immoral, but there''s got to be a better way. To picket a funeral is way off base.

[glossypan]

I have never before questioned the right to unfettered free speech.
I have never before questioned the right to freedom to worship.
I was amazed to see the word "***" was thought to be scriptural - I googled "*** scripture".
This vicious hate filled "church" is outside the boundaries of religion or politics. What they choose to do in private is their business, but others should not suffer because of their depraved actions.

[woodjd42]

My disagreement with the war in Iraq has nothing to do with the brave young men and women serving this nation. I know how I felt about protests against us Vietnam Vets. It wasn''t right then and this certainly is not even close to decent. I know if I were at one of these funerals and they protested, there would be no need to sue them in court. There would be no one to sue.

[dogpatch6]

God bless our soldiers, each and every one, fighting to keep our freedoms and to make the nation secure. Why doesn''t the national Baptist organization disavow this so called church? Also it seems to have a political agenda, why can''t its tax free status be revoked? Once again, bless all our heroes in uniform

[honestabe8]

I don''t know that the family will be able to win this lawsuit. The Westboro people are just evil blowhards that will do anything to get their hate in the media. The message they seem to be pushing is that God hates everyone but them. I wonder if they will continue this when old Fred finally fills his pants that one last time.

[Krazcarl]

One of the first lessons of life is respect for the dead it separates us from the animals. There tax exempt that means 0 political maneuvering. What kind of barbarians would picket a funeral of a man that gave his life for his country they should not only be fined they should be locked up.

[honestabe8]

rational_1. the phelps phucks are in a compound, it would be really tough to burn them down. on the other hand, it would not be all that hard to get to them when they are protesting.

[ov442]

Fundamentalist ?? what fundamentals do they use in their religion?

"Church members said they are motivated by the fear of God and their need to warn America about its moral decay, rather than a desire to hurt anyone."

Signs that say - "Thank God for dead soldiers" or "Roman Catholic monstrosity" or "United States of Sodomy" or making statements of such have NOthing to do with articulating a warning to Americans. They are just sick insultive words from a group that protrays itself as living by the bible...NOT.

This group is beyond fringe.
Regardless of your position on the war, Bush''s intents, or political posturing, Any US soldier that is doing his/her duty and has been following orders deserves the respect and gratitude of the American people. Any of those that are killed doing that duty whatever it was, deserve full Honors and Dignity placed upon them. They families deserve our appreciation, respect, honor, compassion, and any assistance we can give them individually or Federally, State, or locally granted.
Period.

[honestabe8]

crzmeat: this is way more than a lack of respect for the dead, as you say animals exhibit. what is grating is that this is DISrespect for the dead.

[itgranny]

I hope the Snyder family wins. That "church" carries the right to free speech too far and tries to inflame people to attack etc. so they can win lawsuits and cover operating expenses for their organization. Actually i do think it would be a nice twist of fate for them to lose their kids because they have them out there picketing with hate speech signs.

To the Snyder''s: I''m sorry for your loss of Matthew and would like to thank you for your continued sacrifice in the fight to allow other service-people''s families grieve with dignity. I hope your win your battle and find peace and justice at the end. Thank you.

[Ed0719]

Old Fred Phelps doesn''t talk about his own indiscretions, like the molestation and rape of his own children, both male and female. This was revealed by his own children who have split from the family. Of course, Phelps is revered by Bob Jones III, who just gave his ringing endorsement of Mitt Romney and Mitt gleefully accepted it. Birds of a feather, you know...

[elainedi]

I hate this war and what''s it''s doing to our country but, I DO Support or military and I pray for them daily. They are doing the job they were sent to do and they deserve our honor and respect for that. I saw what desention did to our troops in Vietnam, my husband still carrys the scars of it in his heart. I refuse to let our troops down. If you want to be mad at some one, be mad at the Government who sent them there and the people who wouldn''t get off their behinds and vote them out of office.

[scully152]

rational_1. the phelps phucks are in a compound, it would be really tough to burn them down. on the other hand, it would not be all that hard to get to them when they are protesting. Posted by honestabe8 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your comment proves you are not much better than this so called church. This fallen Servicemans father is trying to fight to prove this so called church is in the wrong. How can he prove his case when people make comments like you did?

[scully152]

My disagreement with the war in Iraq has nothing to do with the brave young men and women serving this nation. I know how I felt about protests against us Vietnam Vets. It wasn''''t right then and this certainly is not even close to decent. I know if I were at one of these funerals and they protested, there would be no need to sue them in court. There would be no one to sue.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by woodjd42

[scully152]

My disagreement with the war in Iraq has nothing to do with the brave young men and women serving this nation. I know how I felt about protests against us Vietnam Vets. It wasn''''t right then and this certainly is not even close to decent. I know if I were at one of these funerals and they protested, there would be no need to sue them in court. There would be no one to sue. Posted by woodjd42 ~~~~~~ Sorry, I posted this wihtout my comment. I hit the publish key by accident....anyhow, I applaud our servicemen AND our service women. I have a cousin overseas right now and I know my family prays for him every day to return in one piece AND alive. But like I said in another post How can this father prove his point against this so called church when people (who agree with him) make comments like they should burn or there will be no one to protest. This father is doing things the right way. Two wrongs do NOT make a right. We might think one way (like they should burn or no one to protest) but it is not right to voice those thoughts. It makes you no better than the so called church.

[nlm2383]

I completely agree elainedi. I am not a supporter of war, especially the one in Iraq, but that doesn''t mean I wish anything bad upon anyone who goes into the service. I have family and friends in the Navy and Marines and I support their decision to join %110. I hope this guy wins this lawsuit to show them that what their doing is wrong and inhumane.

[Krazcarl]

scully152...Take your medicine your babbling pointlessly.

[clouc]

This is disgusting behavior for ''church members''. I can not believe God looked at them favorably. The worst feeling in the world is to bury your child, but to be witness to the signs of hate, while burying you son that served his country must be maddening, I don''t know if I would have been able to control my own rage. I''m glad the father is suing, this isn''t the type of freedom of speech his son died for.
Churchs aren''t taxed by the Federal gov''t, but maybe that should be changed!

[mcv57]

This church''s minister has gone over the line. I do not believe Jesus used his Church to advocate government politics; moreover, the minister and his members exploited another christian follower. That is like Jesus parading around John the Baptist''s prison cell protesting with a sign stating: "Thou shall not judge."

[bluestardad]

When some of these church members get gunned down at one of these protest by grieving family members then we will see how much their protest means to them..

[myidoncbs]

"Westboro Baptist church, whose members have picketed the funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, claiming the deaths are punishment for the country''s tolerance of homosexuality."

The wackos all thrive on their hatred of a boogeyman. For US Christians, the boogeymen are homosexuals and abortion providers. Their blind hatred binds them together and gives them strength to carry on in their pathetic, useless lives.

Jesus would weep at the thought of calling such people "Chrsitians".

[wadyaknow]

Ignore them and they will go away. They thrive on publicity.

[gheemaster38]

I hope the family wins big time on this one. It is bad enough to have a love one fight a War that most of the World is against. But, to loss that love one is almost unimaginable. Then, to have to look at this "so called christians" out there protesting is an OUTRAGE!!! I commend the family for their control on this matter. Had it been a relative of mine the Headlines would have read differently.. Something to the tone of: "Christian Protesters of Fallen Soldier meet their fate under SUV tires" Sorry to be so dramatic but, a funeral is one of the most sacred and private affairs of human existence. It should never be marred by any kind of protest. If you dont like a person or what they stood for then dont go to the funeral.. and DO NOT DISRUPT IT! T

[dovestar]

"The wackos all thrive on their hatred of a boogeyman. For US Christians, the boogeymen are homosexuals and abortion providers."
Myldon, I can see where you''re coming from but it just ain''t true. For example, during the 1990 Economic Summit, held in Houston, a group of Christians was holding a memorial service for babies who were aborted. During that service, a group of homosexual militants marched through the area and disrupted the service with their antics. These people were later described by reporters as courageous in standing for their convictions, etc. and the Christians were portrayed as unreasonable. Doubt that if you want, but I was there and saw it. The mainstream media has been portraying Christians as villians for decades and we the people are letting them get away with it.

[judithkay41]

My condolences to the Snyder family on the loss of their son. The fundamentalists need to study the origins of religions: the Bible is not literal, and unconditional love as exemplified by Jesus and the prophets is just that: NO JUDGEMENT of anyone or their choices. These are just sick, ugly people who want to control others with their ignorance and stupidity. Christian my foot. They have no idea what Christian really means. I know taking a stand is difficult for the Snyder family, but I am thankful that they are trying to stop the cruelty and insensitivity of Phelps and his followers for the benefit of others. That takes great courage and concern for the welfare of other families.

[riggie3]

Nobody has the right to desecrate a funeral. I''m sure their children are throughly embarassed and don''t think much of their parents doing this. I would be.

[liberalme]

So very sorry for the Snyder family---I too hope you win big!

These "christians" are the biggest sinners of all!

Who and what gives them the right to judge anyone?
They literally "hate" and preach "hate".
They certainly don''t live by the 10 Commandments.
They also will tell you they are "saved" or "born again".
When someone tells me they are "christian" I expect them to live by every commandment written, be forgiving, help and love their neighbor, not to judge and to be humble.
They are hating in the name of Jesus--Jesus didn''t hate--what did he do with Judas?
These people are nuts!

[harp1963]

Idiots. That''s our #1 problem in America today. From George and Darth Cheney down to the morons that have the nerve to picket a military funeral. All I can say is they should be thankful it wasn''t my son laying in that casket. Then they would have found out about the true wrath of God.

[robjk1-2009]

1 Thess 5:15

15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men .
KJV

Titus 3:2-4

2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
KJV

[markbrookhar]

wrong is wrong, and hurtful is hurtful whether a group that calls itself christian is doing it or another group. The actions of this "so-called independant Baptist" group is wrong and unbiblical. Like most radical fundementalism of any religion, they are using religion and religious beliefs to push their own twisted agendas.

I am a Bible believing Baptist preacher and I do not condone this sinful behavior on the part of this church. It is stuff like this that will bring about the persecution of real Christians who follow Jesus.

[jarheadcwo3]

I would like to have these fundamentalist *** say ''Seper Fi ***'' to my face. I guarantee they would be swallowing teeth for a week.

Semper Fi.

Charles H
USMC (ret)

[marcodele]

I hope his lawsuit succeeds in crushing this group of whackos. What in the he// does a soldier dying in Iraq have to do with homosexuality? I can''t imagine a more unstable and imbalanced group of individuals, except for the talking heads on Fox News.

[honestabe8]

scully: how does my statement "prove" that i am not much better than the phelps crew?

[honestabe8]

matvei: not with a good scope and a clear shot

[raven1949-2009]

As a human being I abhor in the strongest way the disruption of a funeral.

As a Christian I abhor in the strongest way the disruption of a funeral. I wonder if these folks have ever read the New Testament and Jesus strong condemnation of the Pharisees and his strong admonition that the standard you use to judge will be the standard by which you are judged by God.

As an American I support the Right to Speech that is abhorant to me, but I am deeply troubled that this right can be exercised at a funeral.

[shiptonsarch]

what idiots!

[sblake63]

This group protesting funerals shouldn''t even be classified as a "church". Since I am a member of the religious right, I happen to know that every major conservative evangelical church has denounced what this group has done.

They have done a terrible job of trying to communicate an important message and they targeted the wrong people and used hateful signs to do it.

Being gay is a sin and and it is mentioned again as being a sin in the new testament. And even if the founding fathers didn''t use "exact" language to found this nation based on Gods laws, the fact is that MOST people up until like 50 years ago and least TRIED to follow them and yes sin did exist back then. But, it wasn''t flaunted in society''s face as being "an alternative way to live". People were held accountable in their churches and even by their friends and family when they "goofed up". That IS what love is about.

But now if one DARE to say it''s a sin, they are called intolerant. I have seen people both in this forum and and real life go after a bible believing Christian with the same zeal and anger as people do over these crazies from the Westboro Baptist group (they are not a church) just for even hinting that ANYTHING is wrong in general.

Christ said men will be HATED because of him, we can see now this is true. What was wrong then is STILL wrong now. HE will be back soon and like it or not call it hateful or not - This nonsense will NOT stand.

[mswolfestock]

I can''t believe that those nasty people are still walking around. No jury would convict anyone brave enough to kill Phelps and send him to his just rewards in hell. Then all of us can dance at Phelps'' funeral - give the family a big load of payback.

Need help with a soldier''s funeral? Contact the Patriot Guard Riders. They are a group of military veterans throughout the US who attend soldiers'' funerals to provide respect and security from Phelps'' crazy a-holes. They provide a respectful presence while they make sure the crazy a-holes stay very far away. Check them out - www.patriotguard.org - notice that they are a legitimate non-profit organization.

[haneyr-2009]

Fred Phelps is a self ordained minister and does not represent any denomination but the one his family and 11 friends belong to. His actions are the delusions he holds concerning his belief in only he and his family being truly saved. But it is interesting to read his background of how he was a champion of civil rights and a staunch Democrat. So lable him for what he has become, a bitter hateful old man who ceased to be relevant except in his own mind. Don''t lump him in with people you hate and therefor are not much better than he.

[finewoven]

You must be tooo scared and very insecure to believe all your stated theories - there''''s millions of Christians in America today who cannot and do not feel the same way - it''s not right to be scared - Most especially as a Christian and an American ..... Educate yourself.
Posted by parrot2 at 10:42 AM : Oct 26, 2007

Nicely stated. All too many people live in terror created by fundamentalists--of a variety of religions. Learning to keep a balance in life is a blessing.

[l8c6]

They have done a terrible job of trying to communicate an important message and they targeted the wrong people and used hateful signs to do it.----Posted by sblake63

Are you saying they should only be harassing and targeting the homosexuals?

I''d like to see increasing of numbers outside of evangelical churches protesting. The staunch ones would view themselves as "the persecuted" in Jesus'' name but it might put a dent in bigotry, hatred, and the seizure and distortion of religion for purposes of politics and social control on the part of preacher men and the politicians they align with.

Good people staying quiet didn''t make the nazis go away and it''s doing nothing for the religious hate groups who hate in the name of Jesus.

[wadyaknow]

One sad facts is that a lot of people outraged here are only outraged because it was a military funeral anyd you didn''t care when Phelps did this at Mathew Shepard''s funeral and at funerals of other gay people.
It is outrageous to do this at any funeral. In addition a lot of you Michael Moore haters should know that Michael Moore took on this clown ages ago. See the clip: http://youtube.com/watch?v=6u3F4n_t2Mw

[afmca]

Many bloggers are lamenting the decline of American values and tie their support for what these pseudo-christians are doing to society to it. That is the largest fallacy and one I hope the election of 2008 will start to dispel. Christianity in America was hijacked by a bunch of southern bigots and hypocrites in the 1980s and 90s to reassert their control over the bubba.

The breaking of segregation cast the undereducated, economically depressed southern white man adrift and the powers that had used hatred of blacks to manipulate them and hide the fact that they were their true oppressor needed a new bogeyman. Pseudo-Christianity was the new tool - abortion and *** were the demons. The rich used it to reassert economic and political control and they used their usual tool of religious lies to re-enforce the edict. They convinced southerners they were more moral and self-righteous and since it played to their already low self-esteem and desire to be led like lemmings, the bubba embraced the new bigotry paradigm.

Christianity today would be unrecognizable to Jesus. It has been manipulated by politicians to divide and by preachers to control and enrich themselves.

[shiptonsarch]

These scumbags have no respect for our nation, but let God judge them.

[l8c6]

In all seriousness where in the bible does it say being gay is a sin? I''''d like to check out the passages for myself...not that it will change my point of view, but I''''d like to know.

Posted by ozilot

If it does nothing else, the extremism of the right wing republican party and the evangelicals who pick through passages of the bible they conveniently can fit into their will and ignore those they cannot explain or make fit their agenda, these joker perhaps will challenge a dumbed and numbed down nation to study and witness the distortion and hypocrisy of these special agenda ideologies.

[photogeezer]

I''m sorry there wasn''t a veterans'' honor guard to see that this didn''t happen. All vets, including Veterans for Peace, would''ve shut that demo down. We could have surrounded them and kept ''em out of sight.

[bm6005]

Living in Colorado I''m well acquainted with this lunatic family. No judgement just some facts. Fred Phelps was a successful lawyer and many of his followers (all family)have law degrees. His main mouthpiece is his eldest(?) daughter who sues people all the time and warns any and everyone that they will do that. Since so many are lawyers the cost is low. If you have a bizarre sense of humor, as I do, then check out their webite. Just google "Westboro Baptist Church". Quack, quack, quack......

[l8c6]

Christianity today would be unrecognizable to Jesus. It has been manipulated by politicians to divide and by preachers to control and enrich themselves.

Posted by afmca


Right on, it is absolutely perverse. The cold war with Russia kept the military industrial complex in the position for raking in sums of money that 99.9% of people really can''t fully comprehend. Enormous sums. What a scourge for humanity to toil over such waste. It fills the purses of the sociopaths that benefit. A new boogie man was needed. "Liberals" were attacked for being weak on crime and the sharks who never will place themselves on the front line (cause they got more important things to do and better uses for their beautiful minds) got out their tools of business and devised the marketing plans to sell new threats while reaching for their business plans and calculators.

[haneyr-2009]

afmca

your comments are not much different in tone than those of Phelps. You rant and rage against only one devil and not the rest. You seem fixated on one group of people and your belief they are the root cause of all evil. But some of us still remember the bastions of white upper and middle class Democrats in Detroit, Chicago, Boston, New York, and numerous other enclaves fighting violently to preserve their rights to keep black kids out of their white kids schools and nice neighborhoods. So be careful when you try to tar people. It always splatters on you. A bigot is a bigot no matter which mirror you look into.