Can Rudy Convert The Christian Right?

If "Values Voters" Don't Opt For GOP Front-Runner, Their Only Other Choice May Be Hillary

(CBS)  By CBS News senior political correspondent Jeff Greenfield.

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Maybe it's the right place for a Biblical metaphor: At this weekend's gathering of Christian conservatives, the highlight was something right out of Daniel entering the lion's den, only this Daniel is named Rudy.

Giuliani, who leads all Republicans in the seriously premature presidential polling despite liberal views on abortion and gay rights, came to the Family Research Council's "values voters" summit to argue that he was, if not their natural ally, more friend than foe.

"You have nothing to fear from me," he said.

But the question is, does Giuliani have something to fear from them? Ever since Ronald Reagan's 1980 campaign, evangelicals - nearly a fourth of the total electorate - have formed a key component of the GOP base, delivering two-thirds of their votes to GOP Presidential candidates, all of whom have embraced the anti-abortion cause. A Republican nominee must have their backing to win the White House.

But what could a pro-choice, pro-gay rights former Mayor of New York possibly say here that would lead these ardent social conservatives to go with him? Maybe it's less what he says that who he is … and isn't?

Yes, he backed the ban on partial-birth abortions, promised to appoint Supreme Court justices like conservative icons Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas (both committed to overturning Roe v. Wade), and hit tried-and-tested grace notes for the faithful:

"The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion," was one.

The response suggested Giuliani had made some headway here.

"Yes, I was impressed," one said. "I liked a lot of what he said."

Though the Family Research Council's leader, Tony Perkins, warns that for his constituency, abortion is non negotiable: "This is the key issue. Giuliani did himself some good here but he has a long way to go."

But for some here, it's what Giuliani did on September 11th, and in eight years as mayor, that is at the core of his Presidential hopes. He was, at least symbolically, the American face standing up to the terror attacks, and he paints his years as Mayor of New York as the triumph of conservative ideas in the heartland of liberalism.

But can Giuliani really convert these activists to his side?

Clearly their hearts and souls were elsewhere this weekend. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney won the gathering's straw poll, his Mormon faith and one-time liberal stands on abortion and gay rights not withstanding. Romney barely edged out former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who bluntly warned Republicans not to embrace pro-choice heresy.

"I don't want ever for us to allow expedience or electability to replace our principles as the new value," Huckabee told the crowd. "I do not spell G-O-D, G-O-P."

But it well may be that next year, there is one political force more powerful than anything Giuliani can say that might persuade reluctant conservatives to embrace his candidacy: the specter of the possible alternative, Hillary Clinton.

[frb01]

Personally I consider myself conservative and would lean toward the religious right. If it is a choice between Hillary and Guiliani, I would take Guiliani. At least he is addressing the fact that he is not perfect, Hillary will never do that. He certainly has some marital shortcomings, but didn''t Bill Clinton? And Clinton probably has the highest approval rating of any face on the national stage. If he gets the nomination and he wants to appease that group, then choose Huckabee as his running mate.

[suhaalnafa]

Actually, why does the religion participate so directly in the politic?

[sgtrds]

Nothing like the sight of Pat Robertson, Pat Dobson and others of the lunatic fringe of the so-called "Christian" right wing drop their pants so the GOP candidates can gently lick their backsides in a bid to see who is best at doing it.

[radiob-2009]

The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion," was one.



It also does not mean that any religion has the right to shove their religion down our throats. Hypocrites the majority of them, call for a ban on abortion while supporting monetarily and through "most favoured nation status" along with legislation that encourages trade from nations that MANDATE ABORTION.

[sgtrds]

It also does not mean that any religion has the right to shove their religion down our throats.

Posted by radiob at 03:06 PM : Oct 21, 2007

Amen and yet they constantly do try to force through laws based on nothing more then their belief in their particular set of myths and beliefs. In areas like education and their determination to try to force the myth of creationism on our students as science, just because "their" god says it''s true. Or their demands that there be no gay marriage simply because it offends "their" god. The truth is that there is a freedom FROM religion. The separation of church and State means not allowing any religious sect like christians force their beliefs via laws on the rest of us who do not follow their god. we are Americans first and as such have the right to be free of having to follow their influence.

[j-whitman]

singinrick,,,,, Look first in a mirror & examine your own radical religious views of forcing religion on others.

[likeitis5050]

"The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion," was one.

What a stupid statement. Yes it does. Who comes up with this c...rap for these candidates to say?

Freedom from religion means no one has the right to shove their beliefs down my throat. I want freedom from someone demanding rights based on their religious beliefs over my right to steer clear and still have the same right to live my life without their c..rap creeping into my lifestyle.

I wonder how many ''value voters'' found that statement to be downright scary.

[radiob-2009]

Been shopping lately buying up all of those Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese goods which pay for mandated abortions? Also supported by legislation enacted by congress and the president and they were "anti abortion".

[radiob-2009]

Oct.3, 2007
Dogpile Gazette






Dogpile Missouri: We caught up with Drew our hometown champion on the steps of the state capital yesterday and inquired to his campaign for president. He stated that all was going well and that momentum was gathering in his favor. When pressed on issues such as Iraq he replied that he had a concrete plan to end the war inside of six months of his presidency. Asked about the immigration issue he again reiterated that he had the only viable plan. Asked about his plan and details of Drew was quick to respond to our questions with great insight and knowledge of the subject. He spoke fluently to the mixed audience outside the steps of the capitol, which was followed by applause. He promised his plan would indeed provide better security at home and abroad. He then went on to state that he would not only finish the war in Iraq inside of six months but he would also put an end to the war on terror bringing it also to a end inside of two years. Dogpile residents and America will indeed be watching this candiate.

[gaye5]

Well, I for one would not vote anyone who agreed with abortion.. A woman does definitely have the right to do with her body what she wants, but she doesn''t have the right to kill someone else''s body..
Many say that a fetus isn''t a baby, it is just cells, but as time goes by scientists are realizing more and more, so I would not like to take the risk that God was for real and that one day I will meet him and that I had agreed to commit murder by backing someone who would allow mass abortions.
And as for homosexuality, there are thousands of homosexuals coming out of homosexuality and leading normal lives, which proves that they are not born like it. I cant back something which encourages children to go into a life style which has been causing horrific increases in diseases amongst homosexuals.. Even though many on here will say that they know of children who look homosexual from birth, it is a myth that they are born like this, and it isn''t a gene, as in the old days homosexuals mostly didn''t get married to pass it on down, and the two men who found the so called gene were themselves homosexual and it has not been proven, there was no referees in the research..

[prinzowhales]

Singingrick--I had occassion while in Georgia to speak with neighbors who told me of one of the behemoth ''churches'' that are so prized by modern evangelicals who ignore the words of the Scripture...

This behemoth is now headed by an Apostle...self-proclaimed, of course. It asks for prospective members to show their W-2s and the doors have been locked in the past and the church-ites inside detained until enough loot had been pledged to build a new building for the "Apostle" and his concubine who occupy a tremendous mansion.

These are pigs--they worship Bush and Money. They are unctious and snivelling. You know the type... look around you at any Sunday morning service.

[Mia_621]

Gaye5. . . Goodness, I nearly had to don shades to cut the glare of ignorance in that post. If God exists, dear, you might want to inquire why he himself ''aborts'' roughly 50% of ALL pregnancies on this planet. That''s the estimate of how many spontaneous miscarriages occur every single day -- many in the first few hours or days, and thers much later. Looks like God also sees them as "just cells". Certainly he could not see them as the precious, sculpted, soul-creations that the bible implies, else he would not make them, only to immediately destroy them. That would be sick. . . at least for those of us with a real set of ethics, and not a set derived from tribal myth.

As for your musings on homosexuality. . . "thousands" leaving the "lifestyle"? You''re hilarious. If you''re worried about sexually-transmitted diseases, and social dysfunction in general, the heteros have it ALL over the homos. Get an education.

[nmsuip]

For years, a young attorney had been taking vacations at a country inn. The last time he''d finally managed to score with the innkeeper''s daughter. The next time he arrived, he was looking forward to an exciting few days. He dragged his suitcase up the stairs of the inn, then stopped short. There sat his lover with an infant on her lap.
"Helen, why didn''t you write when you learnt you were pregnant?" he cried. "I would''ve rushed up here, we could''ve gotten married, & the baby would have my name!"
"Well," she said. "When my folks found out about my condition, we sat up all night thinking & talking, & we decided it would be better to have a *** in the family than a Republican."

[jacksteen1]

The ONE POLL that matters will be held in November of 2008...until then, all these false opinion polls and slanted attempts to sway voters into thinking, for example, as most of CBS'' polls do, that Mutt Romney''s membership and leadership role in the mormon cult is somehow mainstream or acceptable in our Christian nation.

It is not.

And it is likewise NOT acceptable for the religious zealots, Robertson, et. al., to dictate political debate any longer in this nation.

We have had enough of their hypocrisy - and the hypocrisy of the Larry Craig Republiscum Party.

Go suck your blonde boys in your hometowns, Republicrap politicos that are about to be sent packing!

"Yes Ma''am, Madame President Clinton!"

[homespunlady]

Posted by Gaye5 at 05:29 PM : Oct 21, 2007

I just have one question for you. DO YOU SHOP IN ANY of the "BIG BOX" stores in this country?

DO you REALIZE that EVERY TIME you shop YOU VOTE with your money which is MORE powerful than some measly politicians?
Now as I suspect you''re an AVID Wal-Mart devotee WHY do YOU support Abortion?

PAYING 3rd world countries that have Despicable Human rights AND your favorite - Abortion policies to carry out their Inhumane policies is called HYPOCRISY.

BUT then again BIG BUSINESS calls THAT GOOD BUSINESS and the self-righteous DELUDE themselves by thinking that some PUPPET Politician is to blame!!

Haven''t seen the "religious" condemn policies that have MASS KILLED a few hundred thousand women and babies in IRAQ but then again there''s a DELUSION like singingrick to JUSTIFY that INHUMANITY as well.
It''s THE SAME justification used for pre-Civil War SLAVERY that those babies were "evil" and NOT US so they DESERVE TO DIE! Unbelievably Hypocritical and DISGUSTING.

CLEAN UP your own PREJUDICE FIRST ideas and MAYBE you''d be a little more believable. Until then such HYPOCRISY AND PREACHING OF ELITIST HATE leaves me convinced that people like you and Singingrick are "IN LEAGUE WITH THE DEVIL" and should be "Hung by your own petard".

[homespunlady]

I''m actually CURIOUS as to WHY the Religious Reich and the self important GOP Party controllers are so afraid of Congressman Ron Paul that they''ve taken to treating him like the Harry Potter character "Valdemort" (He who must NOT be mentioned lest he appear)????
Ron Paul this last reporting period apparently garnered about FIVE TIMES the donations as McCain and from what I''m hearing A LOT of it''s being donated BY OUR TROOPS!

I''m still on the fence as to who I''d support but I''m tempted to go with the candidate that TOTALLY STRIKES FEAR in the hypocritical, self-serving and war profiteer loving GOP MACHINE''S HEART!
So far NO OTHER candidate from ANY party except Ron Paul seems to be doing so.

[gkc99]

Isn''t it about time for the Rapture where the bornagain Endtimes all take a space trip to Halley''s comet? Oh, you have to leave your bodies behind Endtimes; adios amigos! Vaya con Dios!

[jcr103]

Can Rudy convert the Christian right? Of course he can. Look how badly Bush snowed the Christain right. If he can do it then anyone can.

[sgtrds]

Isn''''t it about time for the Rapture where the bornagain Endtimes all take a space trip to Halley''''s comet? Oh, you have to leave your bodies behind Endtimes; adios amigos! Vaya con Dios!

Posted by gkc99 at 08:00 PM : Oct 21, 2007

Like many things about the radical right wing "church" the rapture is an almost complete lie. It''s a story made up by a 15 year old in 1830 and has been rejected completely by every mainstream christian church. Still it is one part that I wish was true, because maybe if enough of these lunatics get themselves raptured up to whatever heaven they''ve imagined exists then the rest of us can set up about fixing everything they''ve scre*wed up. Maybe we can have another 15 year old girl have a vision where they all move to Guyana and drink poisoned kool-aid? Now THAT would be nice! Where is the new Jim Jones when you need him?

[starleo146]

Posted by SgtRDS at 08:23 PM : Oct 21, 2007
+ report a

Hey sarge glad to see your post Giuliani pleasing the right Huh I don''t know they are so in love with Bush they will have withdrawl symptoms when he leaves.

[gkc99]

"Like many things about the radical right wing "church" the rapture is an almost complete lie. It''''s a story made up by a 15 year old in 1830 and has been rejected completely by every mainstream christian church."--Posted by SgtRDS


The idea may come from the book of "Revelations", but the closest I can tell after wading through "the ravings of a lunatic" as T. Jefferson put it, is that everyone who gets saved is Jewish. Tough on the bornagains.

[sgtrds]

Hey sarge glad to see your post Giuliani pleasing the right Huh I don''''t know they are so in love with Bush they will have withdrawl symptoms when he leaves.

Posted by starleo146 at 09:05 PM : Oct 21, 2007

Maybe when they step into the voting booth they''ll realize that they''re about to vote for a pro-choice, pro-gay rights and anti-gun politician and they''ll have a stroke from the shock. Hopefully before they pull the lever.

[sharncedar]

I have decided you all are idiots and deserve Hillary Clinton. Is there a worse moron that George Bush? Yes, Hillary Clinton. That''s apparently what these elections are about.

Giuliani needs to a) change his name to Ganes, b) instead of saying really stupid things with a "smart" New York sneer he should say really, really stupid things with a deadpan, earnest Midwest honesty, c) he needs to drive monster trucks and give money away to more kinds of lazy people who don''t work, not just the super-rich and the illegal aliens, but the blacks too.

Then he can be chosen to mislead this stupid, thoughtless country. Hooray for us. Let''s hold a parade through Dumbville.

[tyjohn47]

Rudy needs to forget about convincing the religious right that he isn''t the Boogeyman and instead, if necessary, chose a Bible-thumper for a running mate.

Rudy''s problem solved.

Oh and whoever wrote that Hillary is dimmer than Dubya, you are too stupid to wipe yourself!!

[sftodd]

It never ceases to amaze me that instead of being leaders and working on "converting" rational human beings, politicians always seem to focus on the lunatics and try to convince them that they are every bit as crazy. Here''s an idea, Rudy (you stupid fool), why don''t you try to convince some rational human beings that you are the right guy for the job?

[AgentGGG]

This piece dated 10/21 includes Sam Brownback in the candidate profiles below the article, although he has already dropped out of the race.

[AgentGGG]

This piece reflects many illogical and unproven views propogated by journalists. For one, I do not believe in a "value voter" block or a conservative Christian block of voters that makes up a coherent 1/4 of the electorate. This is simply a hoax. The ultra-right-wing consistently inflates the numbers of its followers to increase its projected power base. While many voters do consider the issues and positions represented by these groups, nothing binds them to vote so, and their votes may easily go astray once they realize how anti-Christian the hard right evangelicals really are.

[billpl-2009]

Singinrick
Christians don''''t "shove their religion" down anyone''''s throats.

No...they shove fetuses in your face.

[dmhphils]

For one, I do not believe in a "value voter" block or a conservative Christian block of voters that makes up a coherent 1/4 of the electorate.

Posted by AgentG1967 at 03:10 AM : Oct 22, 2007
-------------------------------------------------

How can one be that ignorant? Why there are even some democrats that have values, excluding the poster. You probably even have some relatives that are value holders that think you are some kind a work. YOu would be surprized at how many "Bible Thumbpers" are out there that have roots in values that you can''t comprehend obviously.

[brianbwb-2009]

Can Rudy Convert The Christian Right?

Only if he wears a swastika armband over one of those stylish black Mussolini army suits.

[mcvet]

How can one be that ignorant? Why there are even some democrats that have values, excluding the poster. You probably even have some relatives that are value holders that think you are some kind a work. YOu would be surprized at how many "Bible Thumbpers" are out there that have roots in values that you can''''t comprehend obviously.


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Posted by dmhphils at 05:25 AM : Oct 22, 2007
+ report abuse

The ONLY values these losers have are the same one''s they had when they wore those Hoods and Sheets. Can ANYONE tell me a time when "Christian" Conservatives have actually DONE something good for people. Can anyone tell me ONCE in our history when "Christian" Conservatives were out fighting FOR someones rights and not trying to tell the rest of us how to live? Tell you how I feel about them... the same as my dad. I want Politicians who are concerned with making it possible for me to earn enough in a 40 hour week to care for my family. If they do that then I will deal with my "Family Values" and I do not need the help of any Preacher. Sieg Heil and Amen

[mcvet]

Singinrick
Christians don''''''''t "shove their religion" down anyone''''''''s throats.

No...they shove fetuses in your face.



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Posted by billpl at 03:24 AM : Oct 22, 2007
+ report abuse

LOL This loser must be the same JERK who came to my door last week. He didn''t shove his religion in my face, he just refused to accept the word "No" over and over and over and over again. These freaks actually think they have the right, because they say they are in the majority to impose their religion on everyone... they refuse to admit it but they are no different than the Taliban. Sieg Heil and Amen.

[mcvet]

Oh and whoever wrote that Hillary is dimmer than Dubya, you are too stupid to wipe yourself!!


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Posted by tyjohn47 at 11:44 PM : Oct 21, 2007
+ report abuse

Ain''t it the TRUTH!!

[simonsez40]

Why in the heck would you want a bunch of religious zealots supporting you? They are all nuts if you ask me - whats next the Hays Code, the McCarthy witchhunt of the 40''s and 50''s...and....another Prohibition? As you can see the religious zealots that always TRY to impose their religious belief system almost NEVER work for the good of the people.

I compare their extremism to Nazi Germany......that is what happens when you let religious and zealot ideology run a country!

[simonsez40]

Dubya as smart as Hillary - are you all on crack? Dubya couldn''t hit his arse with both hands - that hack needs to retire and disappear from the face of the earth.

[hwy71so]

There''s nothing about "Rudy" that I support. I don''t trust him no way, no how...

[bombadil4]

The problem with all this media blather about the the religious right is that it further promotes the mix of religion with politics when in fact religion should not be a factor in civic life at all. Whatever supernatural being someone wants to believe in should be a private matter and whatever "rules" go along with that belief should not be foisted on the rest of us.

[hwy71so]

Actually, the religious have the moral responsibility to stand in opposition to immoral agenda; such as abortion, homosexuality, etc.

But, since you don''t know anything about religion (apparently), you wouldn''t know that. I hope you take the time to research it a bit.

...start with Genesis chapter 1.

[sftodd]

Actually, the religious have the moral responsibility to stand in opposition to immoral agenda; such as abortion, homosexuality, etc.
...start with Genesis chapter 1.
Posted by Hwy71So at 10:50 AM : Oct 22, 2007

Typical, arrogant, ignorant, hateful Christian . . . . Hwy71So, you hypocrites never cease to amaze me. What did the Bible say about judging? Hmm, guess it does apply to an arrogant prick like you.

[hwy71so]

The only thing I judge are actions and whether they are profitable to undertake, per Biblical instruction. If I support one who is in favor of abortion, homosexuality, drugs, etc, then I am as guilty as the one committing the act. I choose to oppose such actions.

[geezer62]

nmsuip.....

Thank you so much for the joke. I got a good laugh and it was nice to see a little leivity amidst all these serious posts...Have a good day!

[sftodd]

If I support one who is in favor of abortion, homosexuality, drugs, etc, then I am as guilty as the one committing the act. I choose to oppose such actions.
Posted by Hwy71So at 11:53 AM : Oct 22, 2007

Oh, but if you support a president who orders the slaughter of innocent women and children based on trumped up evidence, I suppose you are guilt-free. What a hypocrite! If you really believed in your mythical god, you''d be more concerned about suffering here on earth than about an abortion -- by your supposed beliefs, that fetus'' spirit will either catch the express to heaven or just get on the next train to earth, probably to a home that is better equipped to care for it. The false indignation of the right when it comes to abortion is almost laughable. You can''t have it both ways, either the mother has done that fetus a HUGE favor, or your God doesn''t exist, plain and simple. So, your sympathy for the fetus and the unborn is logically misplaced if we accept your religion as true -- you should be concerned not about the fetus, but about the mother who aborts it. I''ve yet to see a conservative Christian ever hold true their supposed beliefs. They''d sooner spit upon that mother than try to help her.

[billpl-2009]

Posted by Hwy71So
"If I support one who is in favor of abortion, homosexuality, drugs, etc, then I am as guilty as the one committing the act. I choose to oppose such actions."


God gave us (demands of us) free will to choose for ourselves
By imposing laws that limit the free will of others
you''re defying the will of God himself

Jesus told you to spread the word of god
....not create laws to impose it.

[hwy71so]

It must be lonely going through life with no hopes. The infant gets his life from God. It is God''s place to choose whether the child lives or dies. The mother and the father both have chosen to join to form this new life. It becomes their responsibility to tend to the child once it is conceived, to nurture it for growth. This is something we must all consider. Or do you think we should have no consequence for our actions? Live in chaos with nothing but an end to our existance to look forward to? Why do you think we''re afraid of the dark? Because we know there''s more to life than what we see. We know there is something greater. SomeONE greater.

Who am I to play God then? I am a sinner and not worthy of the grace He has promised. But, in my life I try to honor that promise and trust Him when I err. I would expect no more or no less from anyone else.

[simonsez40]

What really amazes me is these Christian zealots focus on two issues: Homosexuality and abortion and then make their decision on a President.

It''s moronic - do those two issues really have a bearing on our society? No. If they would focus on the INTEGRITY of their candidate - like can they communicate well in public, do they hold the Constitution up? Do they believe in democracy versus a dictatorship, do they have the interest of the people at heart??? So many LEGIT QUESTIONS TO ASK yet they focus on 2 subjects.

Amazing ignorance if you ask me.........

[hwy71so]

A lot of spin doctors visit this site I see. :)

Its your choice to play with words all you want. I just hope you realize what you''re doing with it.

[simonsez40]

So if men have a saying in what women do with their bodies then why can''t we vote to ban Viagra and vasectomies? I think women should have a voice in what men do with their bodies....

Like that would ever happen right? It''s a womens issue - nobody elses!

[hwy71so]

Pregnancy takes 2 participants.

[simonsez40]

Let''s go back to the Prohibition - once the government starts to IMPOSE moral beliefs on the body of citizens - it usually ends in more violence and carnage than the original ''sin''.......

Prohibition = gangs, illicit booze, booze running and more carnal behavior than there ever was PRIOR TO PROHIBITION.

[simonsez40]

Yes pregnancy does take two - so if the woman isn''t allowed to make a free choice on the baby - and is forced to take care of the child when the dead-beat father can disappear - maybe we should make it law either he has to take care of that child or get neutered?

*** for tat........lets really make it equal on child bearing and responsibility and lets have equal say on men''s reproductive organs.