Male Menopause? No Myth

Dr. Holly Phillips Explores Symptoms And Treatments For The Male Change

(CBS)  Most people think of menopause as a mid-life change women go through, complete with hot flashes and mood swings. But men can also go through some of those changes.

Early Show "Healthwatch" contributor Dr. Holly Phillips has surprising information about male menopause.


Is there really a male menopause? This isn't something we've heard that much about.

Yes, men do have drops in hormone levels like women. For men it's testosterone, for women it's estrogen. The big difference is, for women menopause signals a time when they stop ovulating, when they can no longer have babies. Men through their 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s, it's a different situation.

Men can feel symptoms - lethargy for one. What's most important is if you are having symptoms, if have fatigue, you don't feel like yourself, the most important thing is to get to the doctor because it may not be male menopause causing these symptoms.

Symptoms:

Fatigue

Depression

Decreased Libido

Anemia

Loss of Bone Density

At what age do you need to be on the lookout if you are experiencing any or all of these things?

Male menopause is different in that it starts earlier and goes over a long period of time. You can see changes beginning in your 40s and then go all the way through your 80s.

How is it diagnosed?

There's a blood test to test for testosterone levels. More importantly, get to the doctor and make sure nothing else is going on.

Do you get a sense that more and more people are coming in with symptoms of male menopause? Is it something that's basically turned a new leaf here medically - is it more prevalent than ten years ago?

I would say people are more interested in it, they're looking at possible symptoms. And there are treatments as well: We can give testosterone, usually in injections or a gel or patch form. But it's not for everyone because there are risks.

There are certain things you can do non-medically to not exacerbate some of the symptoms. These are certain behaviors you really need to stay away from:

Risk Factors:

Excessive Alcohol

Smoking

High Blood Pressure

Poor Diet

Lack of Exercise

I mean, you take part in all that, and forget about it - you'll have these symptoms a lot sooner. One more good reason to take care of yourself by exercising - you don't have to be in the gym for hours a day, a half an hour four times a week is enough to make a really big difference.

Side effects to treatments?

There can be side effects. Just like with women's hormone replacement therapy, men's has risks, too. It can increase your chances of getting a blood clot, and cause increased chances of prostate cancer. So it's you and your doctor making this decision together.

© MMVII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.

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Add a Comment See all 39 Comments

by October 20, 2007 9:54 AM PDT

Keeping the tradition strong another disease has been invented like restless leg syndrome. We are so luck as consumers that the test and drugs are all in place for these modern day carpetbaggers. Diet is the answer but it is so much more profitable to control these dream up diseases with unnatural products for the human body.

Reply to this comment

by barbaraf4 October 20, 2007 10:01 AM PDT

Why does the medical profession treat everything as an opportunity to make money and scare the h*e*l*l out of everyone?

Both male and female menopause are normal life passages. If either s*e*x is having difficulty with the symptoms, then research the alternatives. The answer doesn''t have to be a pill. Visit a health food store, they may have some answers, including the name of a doctor who uses only natural herbs.

Take back control of your life.

Reply to this comment

by l8c6 October 20, 2007 10:55 AM PDT

well, this is kindergarten level information. Wow, what breaking news we have here.

Reply to this comment

by drivelphobe October 20, 2007 11:42 AM PDT

Wow, if you''re getting a little older and feel it, get to the idiot doctor so he can start digging into your Medicare money.

My doctor told me if I didn''t do what he told me to do, like take Lipitor, get an annual physical, and in general, make sure I''m a steady customer, that I should look for another doctor. I am looking.

I am also healthy as a horse, with perfect weight and blood pressure. I exercise vigorously several times a week and my cholesterol is about 210. I eat well and balanced and have not one complaint. HDL is high and LDL is low. The doctor should be this healthy. Still, they recommend test aftertest, including the favorite money maker, the colonoscopy.

I believe that you go to the doctor when you are hurt or sick. That''s it. This BS of treating healthy people on a prospective witch hunt under the guise of "preventive medicine" is a deceptive, fear based scam. The AMA should be ashamed of itself and they should do away with the Hippocratic oath.

Reply to this comment

by Renegade.Rivers October 20, 2007 11:52 AM PDT

While you may find criticism for this article, I can tell you that this is and can be a serious condition in certain individuals. I am 55 years old, and about 5 years ago I was diagnosed with low testosterone. I was feeling terrible at the the time, and after a series of blood test, I was discovered that my body had completely almost completely stopped producing testosterone. My testosterone level was 85. Normal levels for a man of my age at the time was 400-600. I now have to take a testosterone shot twice a month, to maintain a reasonable testosterone level, but the difference in how I felt before, and how I feel now is very much worth taking the shots to main a reasonable testosterone level.

Reply to this comment

by godofredo29 October 20, 2007 11:57 AM PDT

My critique of this piece as it appeared on TV this morning? First of all, this phenomenon has its own name. It%u2019s andropause not male menopause? And right there is a big part of the problem with what came after. You can%u2019t discuss this phenomenon as some sort of corollary of a women%u2019s condition, relating every symptom to whatever women experience in menopause. It just means you%u2019re wasting time for the sake of being somehow PC. Also, because you do this, you make everything you say about it seem like some sort of joke on men. All the snickering and innuendos of your discussion just demean the individuals suffering from this condition. This brings us to the expert: it should have been a man, and for all the obvious reasons. Not the least of these is so the male reporter doesn%u2019t act like a jerk, trying to schmooze the pretty doctor. (Where''s Dr. Bob Arnot when you need him?) Chances are good he will regret doing so down the line when he falls off a slow moving jet ski, say, and, inexplicably, breaks a rib or maybe several and doesn%u2019t know it%u2019s because his low testosterone has let him develop osteoporosis (even though he%u2019s been working out). Or maybe he%u2019ll just break his heel mowing the lawn. This is a serious condition, guys, and, sometimes, the response requires serious medicine from a doctor who knows (hopefully because he%u2019s been there himself) what he%u2019s doing.

Reply to this comment

by drivelphobe October 20, 2007 12:25 PM PDT

renrivers...

You make my case. Since you were "feeling terrible," you went to the doctor and were treated appropriately. These are the times when a doctor is required. Not when they want perfectly healthy people in so the can "test", charge like banshees, for unnecessary consultation.

Glad you''re okay now.

Reply to this comment

by retmilspouse October 20, 2007 12:31 PM PDT

drivelphobe,
Drs don''t prescribe Lipitor for someone who has a perfect lipid panel such as yours. If you are in such perfect health why were you at your Drs office in the first place. Sounds to me like you are a jerk of a patient who thinks you know more than a physician. That''s why he put the screws to you. Don''t go to a Drs. office and waste their time if you aren''t going to follow their advice. Anyway just so you Medicare doesn''t pay squat. So your Dr is probably writing off alot of your bill. I work in the medical insurance field so I know what I am talking about.

Reply to this comment

by facts6 October 20, 2007 12:32 PM PDT

""drivelphobe:I should look for another doctor""
My doc is also about to give me the boot for refusing scrips. As if there are not other docs out there. The medical profession sees anyone over 60 as a cash cow. Health does not come in a pill, it comes with diet and exercise and being appreciative. Hooray for you Driv!!!!

Reply to this comment

by retmilspouse October 20, 2007 12:37 PM PDT

drivelphobe,
What is your problem? Drs are not allowed to just charge what they want for procedures. We may not like it but the government and insurance companies pretty much drive the costs on medical procedures and supplies. A Dr can submit any charge they want to private insurance, Medicaid, Medicare etc, but they are only going to pay what the contracted amount is for that service or supply provided. Drs offices all over the country write off $$$$$$ for stuff they cannot get payment for. Even if you are a self pay customer you will get a discounted rate, probably lower than what they bill the insurance companies for. So you need to quit whinning like a little baby. If you don''t want to heed a Drs advice, stay out of his/her office and quit wasting time.

Reply to this comment

by retmilspouse October 20, 2007 12:41 PM PDT

barbaraf4,
You are right about one thing. If you are uncomfortable with prescription drugs you can try the herbal route. But always remember, the healthfood stores are in business for a reason, MONEY. But it is a free country, if you want to give your money to a store instead of a Dr that is your right. I know which one I would rather trust. All Drs don''t push Rx''s down your throat, so find one that fits your own personal needs.

Reply to this comment

by wonder25 October 20, 2007 1:17 PM PDT

Research also says that animal fats clog big arteries (for living), and smaller arteries (for loving). If you even contemplate going animal free in your diet, my music CD ''Pasture Prime'' will inspire you as it makes you laugh. 1 of a kind stuff from a guy who can still swim Alcatraz to SF! @

www.vegantunes.com

Reply to this comment

by drivelphobe October 20, 2007 2:59 PM PDT

retmilspouse...

Aren''t you the angry one today.

The only problem I have with the medical profession is confirmed by your post. You''re are right, doctors can''t just charge what they want, so they use every deceitful technique and billing loophole to maximize their revenues. They often use in-house labs to further overcharge.

All doctors aren''t like this, but it is wise to be suspicious and wary.

Many doctors are obsessed with unrealistic cholesterol levels, prescribing statins, very dangerous compunds, to achieve levels of 160 or lower. What a joke.

It seems you are brainwashed by the profession you work in, so other readers will forgive your misdirected passion. Read Fact''s post. This person is tuned in and understands what is happening.

I repeat: Go to the doctor when you are injured or ill. You hire physicians to provide medical service for your condition. YOU are in charge, the same as when you hire a gardner, plumber or anyone else. Don''t let them bully you into subservience. And like licensed laborers, don''t accept advice outside their expertise. Don''t let them do it.

Reply to this comment

by erasmus6 October 20, 2007 2:59 PM PDT

You Americans need to stand up and demand some SERIOUS changes.

I watched an Oprah show once where they were saying that the doctors were "in" with the people who make the prescription drugs. That is UNBELIEVEABLE and SCARY. That is probably why there is so much drug resistant infections out there now, they are giving people antibiotics when they don''t need them.

Here, there is the odd stupid doctor who will give you a prescription for some antibiotic because the patient demands it (the patient is also stupid), but it isn''t because of MONEY, it''s because there STUPID. Most doctors do not WANT to give a prescription for ANY pills, unless it is absolutely necessary.

Your country is in pretty bad shape.

Reply to this comment

by drivelphobe October 20, 2007 3:15 PM PDT

retmilspoouse..

One last thing, I was at the doctor''s office to follow up from a dog bite. I went to the emergency room and they said I had to go back to my personal physician for the balance of the necessary antibiotic. They would only give me enough for three days. Just another testimony to their agenda.

Have a wonderful weekend.

Reply to this comment

by drivelphobe October 20, 2007 3:17 PM PDT

Hi erasmus6....

Our country is in terrible shape and it''s getting worse every day. Maybe Michael Huckabee can turn things around for us.

Hope all is well with you.

Reply to this comment

by wonder25 October 20, 2007 3:37 PM PDT

Baileycc: One thought--before you discount something like RLS, ask someone like me who has suffered since I was a kid. I take nothing for it--I am not a medicine taker. It is real, and a b_tch. No commerical can even describe it--and if you think you may have it once in a while from watching that comercial--you don''t.

Reply to this comment

by erasmus6 October 20, 2007 4:00 PM PDT

drivelphobe

"Maybe Michael Huckabee can turn things around for us."

Well, you will probably be mad at me for saying this, but I think Hillary is your best choice. The reason is that women have a different view point about what is important.(no offense:)) It seems to me that men are more for money, war etc., whereas women are more for peace (if possible), what''s good for families etc. Now when I say that women are for peace, that doesn''t mean she isn''t capable of putting up a good fight when needed.

I know that we disagree on the healthcare issue, you are "every man for himself", where I believe EVERYONE should have the right for the BEST healthcare. I think Hillary could achieve that, although she needs to get a few pointers from Canada first.:)

Reply to this comment

by grammawhamma October 20, 2007 4:23 PM PDT

wonder 25: I was a nurse at a hospital where a very old doctor worked. He tried home remedies on his patients first. Try drinking tonic water for RLS...google it and see if it might work for you.

Reply to this comment

by Krazcarl October 20, 2007 6:40 PM PDT

Wonered why I was getting restless and cranky and nothing was good enough for me.

Reply to this comment

by gaye5 October 20, 2007 6:47 PM PDT

retmilspouse you are right about health food stores and companies, they are also out to make money, any business is, but unlike pharmaceutical companies they have to go through far stricter scrutinies simply because even after all their testing if one tablet appears to have killed or damages someone that whole product is totally taken off the market.. Whereas it is only after years of experimenting on we humans and after hundreds or thousands of deaths and damaged people does a Pharmaceutical company except that his product must be taken off the market, and even then they often just change one molecule and it is back on the market as a new you bute product to kill more, or they sell it to undeveloped countries who don''t know the dangers of it, this way they get back the money spent on production.. I have pages of drugs which are suposed to be safe which have been taken off the market because hundreds to thousands of people have died or are injured from it..
Pharmaceutical companies experiment on the unspecting public, where as the natural products in health tablets have generally had centuries of experimenting done, simply by people using a plant for what ever and proving that it works...
I only take tablets as a very last resort..

Reply to this comment

by erasmus6 October 20, 2007 6:48 PM PDT

crzmeat

What does the "crz" stand for? CRAZY?

Reply to this comment

by alclepias October 20, 2007 6:49 PM PDT

The whole idea of a capitalist medical system totally controlled by the A.M.A. here is terrible. It has an interesting history we are not allowed to know much about. initially medical schools had to develop and standardize curricula. These medical schools were funded or influenced by the chemical industry. Faber and the German dye/textile industry was most influential in the kind of medicine practiced today. I am not sure of all the facts, but one interested can do some detective work to find more on all the history of medicine. I believe the greatest problem is that it is so very self serving, capitalistic and very "patriarchal", in that we have to go to these people who have total control over what we are allowed to do with our bodies. We might know very well ourselves that we need some particular lab test, and we might know very well how to interpret those results, etc., but we aren''t even allowed to get the tests without going to some doctor or clinic and paying a lot for a visit. Basic medicine should be taught in schools from grade one. There''s no reason why every child can''t be taught the basics of human physiology, be able to take their own vital signs and know a lot about treating themselves. We would still need specialists who might act as wise consultants when we needed to delve more deeply into some medical/health issue, but we should be given the freedom to have the tools we need to take care of most of our own health care.

Reply to this comment

by gretagreen October 20, 2007 6:53 PM PDT

Wonder: Re: RLS
The drug clonzapam/Klonopin (sp?)works very well for some who have the disease.

Reply to this comment

by alphaa10-2009 October 20, 2007 7:00 PM PDT

CBS/ reports, "There can be side effects. Just like with women''s hormone replacement therapy, men''s has risks, too. It can increase your chances of getting a blood clot, and cause increased chances of prostate cancer..."
---
In the medical literature, testosterone is not implicated for blood clots, so it is not clear from the article what Phillips meant.

Male HRT typically should use bio-identical testosterone (exactly the same as produced by the body), but beyond that, there seems no immediate problem from the testosterone, itself.

In all cases, however, experiment with HRT under professional medical care.

In older men, there is a problem with the conversion of testosterone into harmful derivatives, including estradiol, an estrogen which is responsible for accumulation of fat and muscle atrophy. Ask the doctor for methods to deal with estrogenization of your normal testosterone levels.

Reply to this comment

by barbaraf4 October 20, 2007 7:11 PM PDT

"While you may find criticism for this article, I can tell you that this is and can be a serious condition in certain individuals. I am 55 years old, and about 5 years ago I was diagnosed with low testosterone. I was feeling terrible at the the time, and after a series of blood test, I was discovered that my body had completely almost completely stopped producing testosterone. My testosterone level was 85. Normal levels for a man of my age at the time was 400-600. I now have to take a testosterone shot twice a month, to maintain a reasonable testosterone level, but the difference in how I felt before, and how I feel now is very much worth taking the shots to main a reasonable testosterone level."
Posted by renrivers

I am curious about how long it took you to get that diagnosis and then start treatment. I spent 5 years being told I wasn''t experiencing menopause, that it was simply stress from my job. Finally I demanded an estrogen level test, and the rest is history. Right up until they pulled Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) off of the market, because 20 years of testing proved it caused breast cancer. My mother died from breast cancer, so I am a bit concerned. Meanwhile, I live with my symptoms.

Reply to this comment

by gaye5 October 20, 2007 7:17 PM PDT

erasmus6 I read a study once which said that tests done on women who achieve high positions have far more testosterone than most women. To be able to cope with the stressful situations their body puts out more testosterone.
Wasn''t Hillary involved in some crimes a few years ago before her husband made the white house??? one was something to do with land??? If I can hear this here in OZ, you guys should know.. I can remember it being a big deal then...and Wasn''t there something to do with three boys who were hiding and who saw a plane come in which was loaded with drugs etc...

Reply to this comment

by gaye5 October 20, 2007 7:29 PM PDT

I agree totally that men do have a problem with hormones as they grow older, just as women do. My husband also had to go on replacements after an accident, (ouch) but we have found that it only lasts for a while before it doesn''t make any difference again, so we try other things like the natural and then back to what ever just to trick the liver..
It is essential to get a Dr who specializes in natural medicines as well so as to get the total range of tests done, this way a real diagnosis can me made, normal Dr''s only know part of the problem as they cant know everything. Often the thyroid needs tests done also for the T3 and T4..
My husband also had his amalgams out which has helped as well..
We have to remember that the 4th cause of deaths in America is pharmaceutical drugs so where possible go natural..

Reply to this comment

by Krazcarl October 20, 2007 7:39 PM PDT

erasumus8...Yes on a site on line I needed a sign in so 2 of the question were {multiple choise} they asked favorite food and personality I choose crazy and meat and it''s stuck I''m to lame to come up with new passwords for every site.

Reply to this comment

by erasmus6 October 20, 2007 8:05 PM PDT

Gaye5

"Wasn''''t Hillary involved in some crimes a few years ago before her husband made the white house??? one was something to do with land???"

I think I did hear something about that but nothing came of it. I don''t think she was guilty of any wrong doing.

"...and Wasn''''t there something to do with three boys who were hiding and who saw a plane come in which was loaded with drugs etc..."

I have never heard of anything like that. Maybe you are thinking of someone else.

Reply to this comment

by erasmus6 October 20, 2007 8:08 PM PDT

Gaye5

One thing I do know is that people will come up with all sorts of things to discredit someone, it doesn''t make it true, though.

Reply to this comment

by drivelphobe October 20, 2007 8:10 PM PDT

Hi erasmus6..

I''m never mad at you. Your opinions are backed with clear thinking and logic. I don''t always agree, but that''s why we can have a conversation.

I''m not a fan of the Clintons, but,in my opinion, you are correct regarding your statement about the qualities of women. Not only are they more peaceful seeking and concerned about familiy, they have a keen ability for verbal confrontation and are often far better on their feet than men. Women learn early in life how to defend themselves and make postions clear using skills other than fist fights and physical intimidation. They learn to use their language skills and their brains way ahead of the males. They make excellent attorneys.

The male menapause brought out lots of sideline discussion. You are right that I do feel it is every person for themselves regarding healthcare, except for the truly needy, thus our Medicaid system.

I hope we do learn something from Canada''s health care program. I have no factual knowledge of your health system other than a situation with a personal acquaintance. He had to wait one year or so to have his teeth replaced after they were pulled out due to an infection. He was very upset about the delay.

Have a great weekend and I''ll watch for more of your stimulating comments in the future.

Reply to this comment

by godofredo29 October 20, 2007 8:24 PM PDT

To answer the question about blood clots: It''s just that the testosterone causes you to produce more red blood cells which, ideally, you should find a way to reduce. My doctor simply told me to give blood regularly. That apparently has more than an immediate impact on one''s red blood cell supply.

Reply to this comment

by erasmus6 October 20, 2007 8:48 PM PDT

"He had to wait one year or so to have his teeth replaced after they were pulled out due to an infection." posted by drivelphobe

Yikes,are you kidding me? I have never heard of such a thing. I have known people that have had their teeth pulled and usually they get the teeth replaced immediately. The only thing I can think of is that maybe this person''s infection was severe and maybe because of it they couldn''t take impressions because of swelling or something. Also they would not want to replace them until all sign of infection was gone but a year seems like an awful long time. Maybe he had a hard time getting rid of the infection or they wanted to wait and make sure it wouldn''t come back.

Reply to this comment

by drivelphobe October 20, 2007 10:21 PM PDT

erasmus6...

I''ll see this man in a few months and get more details. He lives in Nova Scotia and visits from New Years through April. Perhaps the infection lingered or presented difficulties he knew nothing about.

Reply to this comment

by lawyertom1 October 20, 2007 10:29 PM PDT

Nothing really new here. The male menopause has been covered in the scientific literature for years.

Reply to this comment

by tnt1954 October 21, 2007 1:38 AM PDT

good promotional for the capitalistic medical
community, patronized by the leisure classes.
physician heal thyself? aren''t medical dictatorships
great to live in? its'' a matter of world health.
feeling paying taxes to the us public health
service? oh, but what do you care about health?
can money buy you eternal life? eternal health?
how about feeling eternally ill? the injured
and the problem of pain by c.s. lewis. well
most of us just rely on faith healing. why?
what gave the guy a heart attack was the doctors
and hospitals bill. i worked in a collection
agency as a full-charge bookkeeper. most of
our clients were doctors, who wanted to squeeze
blood out of turnips. interest upon interest they
owed. so many were found in contempt of court.
those who owed and owed and owed. collection
agencies love deadbeats. without them, they
don''t make a living. how ironic. and symbiotic.

Reply to this comment

by michellem99-2009 October 21, 2007 8:01 PM PDT

sure they go thru the change of life tho different than us ladies who go thru the change. As a woman I hated it. It made me weak just my mother. For men,it is a rite of passage to becoming a senior.

Reply to this comment

by mrassekh October 22, 2007 2:05 PM PDT

"These are certain behaviors you really need to stay away from:

Risk Factors:
Excessive Alcohol
Smoking
High Blood Pressure
Poor Diet
Lack of Exercise"

Oh, honestly. Ya think? Is this the newsflash of the day?

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Keeping the tradition strong another disease has been invented like restless leg syndrome. We are so luck as consumers that the test and drugs are all in place for these modern day carpetbaggers. Diet is the answer but it is so much more profitable to control these dream up diseases with unnatural products for the human body.

[barbaraf4]

Why does the medical profession treat everything as an opportunity to make money and scare the h*e*l*l out of everyone?

Both male and female menopause are normal life passages. If either s*e*x is having difficulty with the symptoms, then research the alternatives. The answer doesn''t have to be a pill. Visit a health food store, they may have some answers, including the name of a doctor who uses only natural herbs.

Take back control of your life.

[l8c6]

well, this is kindergarten level information. Wow, what breaking news we have here.

[drivelphobe]

Wow, if you''re getting a little older and feel it, get to the idiot doctor so he can start digging into your Medicare money.

My doctor told me if I didn''t do what he told me to do, like take Lipitor, get an annual physical, and in general, make sure I''m a steady customer, that I should look for another doctor. I am looking.

I am also healthy as a horse, with perfect weight and blood pressure. I exercise vigorously several times a week and my cholesterol is about 210. I eat well and balanced and have not one complaint. HDL is high and LDL is low. The doctor should be this healthy. Still, they recommend test aftertest, including the favorite money maker, the colonoscopy.

I believe that you go to the doctor when you are hurt or sick. That''s it. This BS of treating healthy people on a prospective witch hunt under the guise of "preventive medicine" is a deceptive, fear based scam. The AMA should be ashamed of itself and they should do away with the Hippocratic oath.

[Renegade.Rivers]

While you may find criticism for this article, I can tell you that this is and can be a serious condition in certain individuals. I am 55 years old, and about 5 years ago I was diagnosed with low testosterone. I was feeling terrible at the the time, and after a series of blood test, I was discovered that my body had completely almost completely stopped producing testosterone. My testosterone level was 85. Normal levels for a man of my age at the time was 400-600. I now have to take a testosterone shot twice a month, to maintain a reasonable testosterone level, but the difference in how I felt before, and how I feel now is very much worth taking the shots to main a reasonable testosterone level.

[godofredo29]

My critique of this piece as it appeared on TV this morning? First of all, this phenomenon has its own name. It%u2019s andropause not male menopause? And right there is a big part of the problem with what came after. You can%u2019t discuss this phenomenon as some sort of corollary of a women%u2019s condition, relating every symptom to whatever women experience in menopause. It just means you%u2019re wasting time for the sake of being somehow PC. Also, because you do this, you make everything you say about it seem like some sort of joke on men. All the snickering and innuendos of your discussion just demean the individuals suffering from this condition. This brings us to the expert: it should have been a man, and for all the obvious reasons. Not the least of these is so the male reporter doesn%u2019t act like a jerk, trying to schmooze the pretty doctor. (Where''s Dr. Bob Arnot when you need him?) Chances are good he will regret doing so down the line when he falls off a slow moving jet ski, say, and, inexplicably, breaks a rib or maybe several and doesn%u2019t know it%u2019s because his low testosterone has let him develop osteoporosis (even though he%u2019s been working out). Or maybe he%u2019ll just break his heel mowing the lawn. This is a serious condition, guys, and, sometimes, the response requires serious medicine from a doctor who knows (hopefully because he%u2019s been there himself) what he%u2019s doing.

[drivelphobe]

renrivers...

You make my case. Since you were "feeling terrible," you went to the doctor and were treated appropriately. These are the times when a doctor is required. Not when they want perfectly healthy people in so the can "test", charge like banshees, for unnecessary consultation.

Glad you''re okay now.

[retmilspouse]

drivelphobe,
Drs don''t prescribe Lipitor for someone who has a perfect lipid panel such as yours. If you are in such perfect health why were you at your Drs office in the first place. Sounds to me like you are a jerk of a patient who thinks you know more than a physician. That''s why he put the screws to you. Don''t go to a Drs. office and waste their time if you aren''t going to follow their advice. Anyway just so you Medicare doesn''t pay squat. So your Dr is probably writing off alot of your bill. I work in the medical insurance field so I know what I am talking about.

[facts6]

""drivelphobe:I should look for another doctor""
My doc is also about to give me the boot for refusing scrips. As if there are not other docs out there. The medical profession sees anyone over 60 as a cash cow. Health does not come in a pill, it comes with diet and exercise and being appreciative. Hooray for you Driv!!!!

[retmilspouse]

drivelphobe,
What is your problem? Drs are not allowed to just charge what they want for procedures. We may not like it but the government and insurance companies pretty much drive the costs on medical procedures and supplies. A Dr can submit any charge they want to private insurance, Medicaid, Medicare etc, but they are only going to pay what the contracted amount is for that service or supply provided. Drs offices all over the country write off $$$$$$ for stuff they cannot get payment for. Even if you are a self pay customer you will get a discounted rate, probably lower than what they bill the insurance companies for. So you need to quit whinning like a little baby. If you don''t want to heed a Drs advice, stay out of his/her office and quit wasting time.

[retmilspouse]

barbaraf4,
You are right about one thing. If you are uncomfortable with prescription drugs you can try the herbal route. But always remember, the healthfood stores are in business for a reason, MONEY. But it is a free country, if you want to give your money to a store instead of a Dr that is your right. I know which one I would rather trust. All Drs don''t push Rx''s down your throat, so find one that fits your own personal needs.

[wonder25]

Research also says that animal fats clog big arteries (for living), and smaller arteries (for loving). If you even contemplate going animal free in your diet, my music CD ''Pasture Prime'' will inspire you as it makes you laugh. 1 of a kind stuff from a guy who can still swim Alcatraz to SF! @

www.vegantunes.com

[drivelphobe]

retmilspouse...

Aren''t you the angry one today.

The only problem I have with the medical profession is confirmed by your post. You''re are right, doctors can''t just charge what they want, so they use every deceitful technique and billing loophole to maximize their revenues. They often use in-house labs to further overcharge.

All doctors aren''t like this, but it is wise to be suspicious and wary.

Many doctors are obsessed with unrealistic cholesterol levels, prescribing statins, very dangerous compunds, to achieve levels of 160 or lower. What a joke.

It seems you are brainwashed by the profession you work in, so other readers will forgive your misdirected passion. Read Fact''s post. This person is tuned in and understands what is happening.

I repeat: Go to the doctor when you are injured or ill. You hire physicians to provide medical service for your condition. YOU are in charge, the same as when you hire a gardner, plumber or anyone else. Don''t let them bully you into subservience. And like licensed laborers, don''t accept advice outside their expertise. Don''t let them do it.

[erasmus6]

You Americans need to stand up and demand some SERIOUS changes.

I watched an Oprah show once where they were saying that the doctors were "in" with the people who make the prescription drugs. That is UNBELIEVEABLE and SCARY. That is probably why there is so much drug resistant infections out there now, they are giving people antibiotics when they don''t need them.

Here, there is the odd stupid doctor who will give you a prescription for some antibiotic because the patient demands it (the patient is also stupid), but it isn''t because of MONEY, it''s because there STUPID. Most doctors do not WANT to give a prescription for ANY pills, unless it is absolutely necessary.

Your country is in pretty bad shape.

[drivelphobe]

retmilspoouse..

One last thing, I was at the doctor''s office to follow up from a dog bite. I went to the emergency room and they said I had to go back to my personal physician for the balance of the necessary antibiotic. They would only give me enough for three days. Just another testimony to their agenda.

Have a wonderful weekend.

[drivelphobe]

Hi erasmus6....

Our country is in terrible shape and it''s getting worse every day. Maybe Michael Huckabee can turn things around for us.

Hope all is well with you.

[wonder25]

Baileycc: One thought--before you discount something like RLS, ask someone like me who has suffered since I was a kid. I take nothing for it--I am not a medicine taker. It is real, and a b_tch. No commerical can even describe it--and if you think you may have it once in a while from watching that comercial--you don''t.

[erasmus6]

drivelphobe

"Maybe Michael Huckabee can turn things around for us."

Well, you will probably be mad at me for saying this, but I think Hillary is your best choice. The reason is that women have a different view point about what is important.(no offense:)) It seems to me that men are more for money, war etc., whereas women are more for peace (if possible), what''s good for families etc. Now when I say that women are for peace, that doesn''t mean she isn''t capable of putting up a good fight when needed.

I know that we disagree on the healthcare issue, you are "every man for himself", where I believe EVERYONE should have the right for the BEST healthcare. I think Hillary could achieve that, although she needs to get a few pointers from Canada first.:)

[grammawhamma]

wonder 25: I was a nurse at a hospital where a very old doctor worked. He tried home remedies on his patients first. Try drinking tonic water for RLS...google it and see if it might work for you.

[Krazcarl]

Wonered why I was getting restless and cranky and nothing was good enough for me.

[gaye5]

retmilspouse you are right about health food stores and companies, they are also out to make money, any business is, but unlike pharmaceutical companies they have to go through far stricter scrutinies simply because even after all their testing if one tablet appears to have killed or damages someone that whole product is totally taken off the market.. Whereas it is only after years of experimenting on we humans and after hundreds or thousands of deaths and damaged people does a Pharmaceutical company except that his product must be taken off the market, and even then they often just change one molecule and it is back on the market as a new you bute product to kill more, or they sell it to undeveloped countries who don''t know the dangers of it, this way they get back the money spent on production.. I have pages of drugs which are suposed to be safe which have been taken off the market because hundreds to thousands of people have died or are injured from it..
Pharmaceutical companies experiment on the unspecting public, where as the natural products in health tablets have generally had centuries of experimenting done, simply by people using a plant for what ever and proving that it works...
I only take tablets as a very last resort..

[erasmus6]

crzmeat

What does the "crz" stand for? CRAZY?

[alclepias]

The whole idea of a capitalist medical system totally controlled by the A.M.A. here is terrible. It has an interesting history we are not allowed to know much about. initially medical schools had to develop and standardize curricula. These medical schools were funded or influenced by the chemical industry. Faber and the German dye/textile industry was most influential in the kind of medicine practiced today. I am not sure of all the facts, but one interested can do some detective work to find more on all the history of medicine. I believe the greatest problem is that it is so very self serving, capitalistic and very "patriarchal", in that we have to go to these people who have total control over what we are allowed to do with our bodies. We might know very well ourselves that we need some particular lab test, and we might know very well how to interpret those results, etc., but we aren''t even allowed to get the tests without going to some doctor or clinic and paying a lot for a visit. Basic medicine should be taught in schools from grade one. There''s no reason why every child can''t be taught the basics of human physiology, be able to take their own vital signs and know a lot about treating themselves. We would still need specialists who might act as wise consultants when we needed to delve more deeply into some medical/health issue, but we should be given the freedom to have the tools we need to take care of most of our own health care.

[gretagreen]

Wonder: Re: RLS
The drug clonzapam/Klonopin (sp?)works very well for some who have the disease.

[alphaa10-2009]

CBS/ reports, "There can be side effects. Just like with women''s hormone replacement therapy, men''s has risks, too. It can increase your chances of getting a blood clot, and cause increased chances of prostate cancer..."
---
In the medical literature, testosterone is not implicated for blood clots, so it is not clear from the article what Phillips meant.

Male HRT typically should use bio-identical testosterone (exactly the same as produced by the body), but beyond that, there seems no immediate problem from the testosterone, itself.

In all cases, however, experiment with HRT under professional medical care.

In older men, there is a problem with the conversion of testosterone into harmful derivatives, including estradiol, an estrogen which is responsible for accumulation of fat and muscle atrophy. Ask the doctor for methods to deal with estrogenization of your normal testosterone levels.

[barbaraf4]

"While you may find criticism for this article, I can tell you that this is and can be a serious condition in certain individuals. I am 55 years old, and about 5 years ago I was diagnosed with low testosterone. I was feeling terrible at the the time, and after a series of blood test, I was discovered that my body had completely almost completely stopped producing testosterone. My testosterone level was 85. Normal levels for a man of my age at the time was 400-600. I now have to take a testosterone shot twice a month, to maintain a reasonable testosterone level, but the difference in how I felt before, and how I feel now is very much worth taking the shots to main a reasonable testosterone level."
Posted by renrivers

I am curious about how long it took you to get that diagnosis and then start treatment. I spent 5 years being told I wasn''t experiencing menopause, that it was simply stress from my job. Finally I demanded an estrogen level test, and the rest is history. Right up until they pulled Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) off of the market, because 20 years of testing proved it caused breast cancer. My mother died from breast cancer, so I am a bit concerned. Meanwhile, I live with my symptoms.

[gaye5]

erasmus6 I read a study once which said that tests done on women who achieve high positions have far more testosterone than most women. To be able to cope with the stressful situations their body puts out more testosterone.
Wasn''t Hillary involved in some crimes a few years ago before her husband made the white house??? one was something to do with land??? If I can hear this here in OZ, you guys should know.. I can remember it being a big deal then...and Wasn''t there something to do with three boys who were hiding and who saw a plane come in which was loaded with drugs etc...

[gaye5]

I agree totally that men do have a problem with hormones as they grow older, just as women do. My husband also had to go on replacements after an accident, (ouch) but we have found that it only lasts for a while before it doesn''t make any difference again, so we try other things like the natural and then back to what ever just to trick the liver..
It is essential to get a Dr who specializes in natural medicines as well so as to get the total range of tests done, this way a real diagnosis can me made, normal Dr''s only know part of the problem as they cant know everything. Often the thyroid needs tests done also for the T3 and T4..
My husband also had his amalgams out which has helped as well..
We have to remember that the 4th cause of deaths in America is pharmaceutical drugs so where possible go natural..

[Krazcarl]

erasumus8...Yes on a site on line I needed a sign in so 2 of the question were {multiple choise} they asked favorite food and personality I choose crazy and meat and it''s stuck I''m to lame to come up with new passwords for every site.

[erasmus6]

Gaye5

"Wasn''''t Hillary involved in some crimes a few years ago before her husband made the white house??? one was something to do with land???"

I think I did hear something about that but nothing came of it. I don''t think she was guilty of any wrong doing.

"...and Wasn''''t there something to do with three boys who were hiding and who saw a plane come in which was loaded with drugs etc..."

I have never heard of anything like that. Maybe you are thinking of someone else.

[erasmus6]

Gaye5

One thing I do know is that people will come up with all sorts of things to discredit someone, it doesn''t make it true, though.

[drivelphobe]

Hi erasmus6..

I''m never mad at you. Your opinions are backed with clear thinking and logic. I don''t always agree, but that''s why we can have a conversation.

I''m not a fan of the Clintons, but,in my opinion, you are correct regarding your statement about the qualities of women. Not only are they more peaceful seeking and concerned about familiy, they have a keen ability for verbal confrontation and are often far better on their feet than men. Women learn early in life how to defend themselves and make postions clear using skills other than fist fights and physical intimidation. They learn to use their language skills and their brains way ahead of the males. They make excellent attorneys.

The male menapause brought out lots of sideline discussion. You are right that I do feel it is every person for themselves regarding healthcare, except for the truly needy, thus our Medicaid system.

I hope we do learn something from Canada''s health care program. I have no factual knowledge of your health system other than a situation with a personal acquaintance. He had to wait one year or so to have his teeth replaced after they were pulled out due to an infection. He was very upset about the delay.

Have a great weekend and I''ll watch for more of your stimulating comments in the future.

[godofredo29]

To answer the question about blood clots: It''s just that the testosterone causes you to produce more red blood cells which, ideally, you should find a way to reduce. My doctor simply told me to give blood regularly. That apparently has more than an immediate impact on one''s red blood cell supply.

[erasmus6]

"He had to wait one year or so to have his teeth replaced after they were pulled out due to an infection." posted by drivelphobe

Yikes,are you kidding me? I have never heard of such a thing. I have known people that have had their teeth pulled and usually they get the teeth replaced immediately. The only thing I can think of is that maybe this person''s infection was severe and maybe because of it they couldn''t take impressions because of swelling or something. Also they would not want to replace them until all sign of infection was gone but a year seems like an awful long time. Maybe he had a hard time getting rid of the infection or they wanted to wait and make sure it wouldn''t come back.

[drivelphobe]

erasmus6...

I''ll see this man in a few months and get more details. He lives in Nova Scotia and visits from New Years through April. Perhaps the infection lingered or presented difficulties he knew nothing about.

[lawyertom1]

Nothing really new here. The male menopause has been covered in the scientific literature for years.

[tnt1954]

good promotional for the capitalistic medical
community, patronized by the leisure classes.
physician heal thyself? aren''t medical dictatorships
great to live in? its'' a matter of world health.
feeling paying taxes to the us public health
service? oh, but what do you care about health?
can money buy you eternal life? eternal health?
how about feeling eternally ill? the injured
and the problem of pain by c.s. lewis. well
most of us just rely on faith healing. why?
what gave the guy a heart attack was the doctors
and hospitals bill. i worked in a collection
agency as a full-charge bookkeeper. most of
our clients were doctors, who wanted to squeeze
blood out of turnips. interest upon interest they
owed. so many were found in contempt of court.
those who owed and owed and owed. collection
agencies love deadbeats. without them, they
don''t make a living. how ironic. and symbiotic.

[michellem99-2009]

sure they go thru the change of life tho different than us ladies who go thru the change. As a woman I hated it. It made me weak just my mother. For men,it is a rite of passage to becoming a senior.

[mrassekh]

"These are certain behaviors you really need to stay away from:

Risk Factors:
Excessive Alcohol
Smoking
High Blood Pressure
Poor Diet
Lack of Exercise"

Oh, honestly. Ya think? Is this the newsflash of the day?