Turkey Approves Iraq Invasion

Lawmakers Endorse Bill For Attack On Kurdish Rebels "When Time Is Ripe"

(CBS/AP)  Turkey's parliament on Wednesday overwhelmingly approved a possible cross-border offensive against Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq, although the government appears willing to give more time to diplomatic pressure on the U.S.-backed Iraqi administration.

Parliament voted 507-19 in favor of empowering the government to order the military to cross into Iraq over a one-year period, Parliament Speaker Koksal Toptan said. Legislators burst into applause.

In Washington, President Bush said the United States was making clear to Turkey it should not send massive number of troops into Iraq.

Turkish leaders have stressed that an offensive against the rebels of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, would not immediately follow the expected authorization.

"The passage of the motion in parliament does not mean that an operation will be carried out at once," Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Tuesday. "Turkey will act with common sense and determination when necessary and when the time is ripe."

Hours before the vote, Iraq Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki called his Turkish counterpart to say that his government was determined to halt the “terrorist activities” of the PKK on Iraqi territory, and he emphasized the need for the two nations to continue to talk, his office said in a statement.

Iraq has urged Turkey not to send troops across the border to pursue separatist Kurds in mountain hideouts. It dispatched one of its two vice presidents to Ankara on Tuesday and called for a diplomatic solution to tensions that have raised fears of a new front in the Iraq war.

"Iraq must be given the chance to stop PKK rebels who cross the border before Turkey takes any step," the Anatolia news agency quoted Iraqi Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi as saying before his departure from Ankara.

"I got what I wanted from our talks. There is a new atmosphere to stop the current crisis," he was also quoted as saying. Al-Hashimi met Tuesday with Erdogan and other Turkish officials.

Hours before the vote in parliament, Turkey invited ambassadors from countries bordering Iraq and other Middle Eastern nations to the Foreign Ministry for a briefing on why it was passing the motion in parliament.

The motion, authorizing an attack into Iraq sometime over the next year, had the backing of all but one party in parliament. Only a small Kurdish party voted against it.

Public anger over attacks by Kurdish guerrillas is high but Turkish officials are mindful that two dozen Iraqi campaigns since the 1980s have failed to eradicate the PKK. A cross-border attack into northern Iraq could also strain ties with the United States, a NATO ally that opposes any disruption of its efforts to stabilize Iraq.

Kurdish rebels from the PKK have been fighting since 1984 for autonomy in Turkey's Kurdish-dominated southeast, a conflict that has claimed tens of thousands of lives.

Turkey has complained about what it considers a lack of U.S. support in the fight against the PKK, a frustration with Washington intensified because of another sensitive issue: the killing of up to 1.5 million Armenians in the final years of the Ottoman Empire.

A panel in the U.S. House of Representatives approved a resolution last week labeling the killings genocide, an affront to Turks who deny there was any systematic campaign to eliminate Armenians.

However, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Wednesday the prospects of a vote on the genocide bill in the full House were uncertain.

Her statement came after several members pulled their support for the resolution out of fear that it would cripple U.S. relations with Turkey.

Another prominent Democrat also predicted the resolution would fail in the House. Congressman John Murtha says his party's leadership underestimated opposition to the resolution.

In other developments:

The Pentagon is set to alert eight National Guard units to be ready for deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan starting late next summer. Defense officials tell AP that seven of the units will deploy to Iraq and one to Afghanistan. An announcement is not expected until later this week. The military is reaching out to more Guard units to ease strain on active-duty Army personnel and provide security for ports, convoys and installations. U.S. officials are also trying to maintain necessary troop levels. Specific brigades were not identified, but the officials say they will include units from North Carolina, Oklahoma, Illinois and Hawaii.

A State Department review of private security guards hired for diplomats in Iraq is unlikely to recommend firing Blackwater USA because of the deaths of 17 Iraqis last month, but the company probably is on the way out of that job, U.S. officials said Wednesday. Blackwater's contract for escorting U.S. diplomats outside the protected Green Zone in Baghdad expires in May, one official said, and other officials told The Associated Press they expect the North Carolina company will not continue to work for the U.S. Embassy after that. It is likely that Blackwater will not compete to keep the job, one official said. Blackwater probably will not be fired outright or even "eased out," the official added, but there is a mutual feeling that the Sept. 16 shooting deaths mean the company cannot continue in its current role.

U.S. soldiers who guarded the lockup that housed Saddam Hussein in his last months testified Wednesday their camp commander let former regime inmates - including those on death row - use his cell phone for unmonitored calls. The testimony, on the third day of the court-martial of 52-year-old Lt. Col. William H. Steele, an Army reservist from Prince George, Virginia, faces a life sentence if convicted on the charge of aiding the enemy by allowing the prisoners use his phone.

While Iraqis are unlikely to enjoy 24 hours a day of electrical power until 2013, they are getting about 15 hours on average nationwide, far above expectations, says the Army Corps of Engineers. Progress in reconstruction extends also to health care, with 28 newly opened primary clinics, 12 of them in Baghdad, the capital, Brig. Gen. Michael Walsh, commander of the Corps' Gulf region division for a year, said Tuesday.

© MMVII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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See all 236 Comments

by mcvet October 17, 2007 7:13 AM PDT

The Fascist in what was once the Republican Party are over joyed. Another war for them to make profits with.

Reply to this comment

by jowand October 17, 2007 7:23 AM PDT

The Fascist in what was once the Republican Party are over joyed. Another war for them to make profits with.


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Posted by MCVet at 07:13 AM : Oct 17, 2007

Give the credit where it''s due on this one, Pelosi and friends back stabbing the military once more. This is another Jimmy Carter fiasco decision, fortunately it''s dead before it arrives.

Reply to this comment

by mcvet October 17, 2007 7:33 AM PDT

Give the credit where it''''s due on this one, Pelosi and friends back stabbing the military once more. This is another Jimmy Carter fiasco decision, fortunately it''''s dead before it arrives.


Posted by jowand at 07:23 AM : Oct 17, 2007
+ report abuse

So in your poor simple fascist mind the actions of the speaker of the house, branding the actions of a government nearly 100 years ago for what it was, is the reason for this? ROFLMAO Even for a Nazi like yourself that''s just plain stupid. The Turks and the Kurds have been fighting now for HUNDREDS of years. Saddam and his Government kept the Kurds in Iraq and the Turks were happy. When Bush decided to be the dictator of America AND Iraq, he gave the Kurds the chance to resume the fight. It''s okay to be stupid, you couldn''t be a Nazi otherwise, but at least have SOME honor. The Turks were LOOKING for an excuse any excuse!! Sieg Heil Bush!! You really aren''t the sharpest tool in the old shed are ya there?

Reply to this comment

by jowand October 17, 2007 7:38 AM PDT

When Bush decided to be the dictator of America AND Iraq, he gave the Kurds the chance to resume the fight. It''''s okay to be stupid, you couldn''''t be a Nazi otherwise, but at least have SOME honor. The Turks were LOOKING for an excuse any excuse!! Sieg Heil Bush!! You really aren''''t the sharpest tool in the old shed are ya there?


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Posted by MCVet at 07:33 AM : Oct 17, 2007

You''re thicker than two short pieces of wood Sparkless, your swastika is on crooked straighten up.
You''re gal Pelosi is doing this to undermine and back stab the military. ZIG HELL

Reply to this comment

by asmauzum October 17, 2007 8:12 AM PDT

As a Turkish Citizen, i would like to say that if congress accept Armenian Genocide, relations between USA and Turkey will be decreased and we will never call USA as an ally anymore. So that we will never buy planes or tanks or rockets from USA, maybe we can work with Russians on Iran issue.

Reply to this comment

by October 17, 2007 8:15 AM PDT

jowand wrote:

"You''''re gal Pelosi is doing this to undermine and back stab the military."

GW Bush is the biggest enemy our troops have got - long before the invasion even began.

You fascist right wing extremist morons have no option to support Herr Bush - because you''re all too fu_king stupid to think for yourselves.

Reply to this comment

by jowand October 17, 2007 8:24 AM PDT

jowand wrote:

"You''''''''re gal Pelosi is doing this to undermine and back stab the military."

GW Bush is the biggest enemy our troops have got - long before the invasion even began.

You fascist right wing extremist morons have no option to support Herr Bush - because you''''re all too fu_king stupid to think for yourselves.


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Posted by mcdazz at 08:15 AM : Oct 17, 2007

You have a potty mouth but that doesn''t change the fact that Pelosi really screwed up on this one. If she doen''t want the war in Iraq to go on defund it. Pelosi is trying to cause a crisis in the US military while they are engaged with an enemy, to force a withdrawal of US forces and then proclaim defeat under Bush.

Reply to this comment

by formrusmcsgt October 17, 2007 8:37 AM PDT

Pelosi is trying to cause a crisis in the US military while they are engaged with an enemy, to force a withdrawal of US forces and then proclaim defeat under Bush.

Posted by jowand at 08:24 AM : Oct 17, 2007

As if Bush would be able to contend that his boondoggle was some kind of victory without the resolution.

Get real.

Reply to this comment

by afmca October 17, 2007 8:41 AM PDT

I am sorry but I feel Turkey has the right to defend its territory and its people. The Kurds have an autonomous territory that they could turn into a viable and responsible state. Instead they continue to live in the past and try to take regress for century old issues. If people in this area would start looking to the future instead of always living in the past - maybe they would live in peace and their children would have a future. After we invaded IRAQ on a lie; we have no right to deny Turkey the right of self-protection. The Kurds in this case are terrorists.

Reply to this comment

by radiob-2009 October 17, 2007 8:42 AM PDT

Related:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21312504/

As the majority of posters along with the NIE, Chathman House and various others have been stating for some time OUR invasion and occupation of Iraq has only ignited the war on terror.

Reply to this comment

by nolalou October 17, 2007 8:44 AM PDT

asmauzum,

I do not understand why Turks would be offended by a resolution condemning genocide committed by the Ottoman Empire! That empire ended long ago, and was replaced by modern day Turkey! We condemn Nazi Germany for the holocaust, but post-nazi Germany dosn''t take offense, in fact most German''s agree that holocaust was wrong.

Are you saying most Turks support the killing of millions of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire? The empire that was overthrown to form modern day Turkey?

Reply to this comment

by antoniof123 October 17, 2007 8:45 AM PDT

The neocons didn''t see this one coming either.

God Republicans have become dumber then dirt.

Reply to this comment

by ioweign October 17, 2007 8:51 AM PDT

As a Turkish Citizen, i would like to say that if congress accept Armenian Genocide, relations between USA and Turkey will be decreased and we will never call USA as an ally anymore. So that we will never buy planes or tanks or rockets from USA, maybe we can work with Russians on Iran issue.

Posted by asmauzum at 08:12 AM : Oct 17, 2007

Your post proves that it was Genocide and you haven''t changed since 1915. With an attitude like that, you will fit right in with Russia and Iran !

Reply to this comment

by gkc99 October 17, 2007 9:06 AM PDT

"As a Turkish Citizen, i would like to say that if congress accept Armenian Genocide, relations between USA and Turkey will be decreased and we will never call USA as an ally anymore. So that we will never buy planes or tanks or rockets from USA, maybe we can work with Russians on Iran issue." --Posted by asmauzum



I think not. Most European countries recognize the Armenian Holocaust, but Turkey is perpetually hat in hand begging to be let into the European Union, aren''t you? No, there will be a little hissy fit, and the whole thing will blow over.

And why shouldn''t the Kurdish people have their own country?

Reply to this comment

by hungry1968 October 17, 2007 9:10 AM PDT

You have a potty mouth but that doesn''''t change the fact that Pelosi really screwed up on this one. If she doen''''t want the war in Iraq to go on defund it. Pelosi is trying to cause a crisis in the US military while they are engaged with an enemy, to force a withdrawal of US forces and then proclaim defeat under Bush.
Posted by jowand at 08:24 AM : Oct 17, 2007



Call it what it really is:

Turkey wanted to invade Iraq and was looking for an excuse - ANY EXCUSE - to do it. Congress could have passed a resolution saying that Turkey''s grass isn''t as green as Syria, and they would use that as a catalyst to invade.

Get real, would you? What could this resolution have possibly done to cause an invasion of Iraq? Nothing. 22 other countries posted similar resolutions, why aren''t you belly aching about that.

I''ll tell you this though: If Saddam Hussein was still in power, there''s NO WAY Turkey would be invading. Yet even further proof that the invasion of Iraq is a regional disaster.

Reply to this comment

by rstein6 October 17, 2007 9:14 AM PDT

The US doesn''t need Turkey - We have two in the
white house, who has afflicted and caused a complete
destabilization in the middle East, a financial disaster for the economy, and a hardship for the
future "childrens" and a complete disaster for our military, in the name of the $$$$. Congress has
quite dilengtly demonstrated its ineptitude with
Nancy Pelosi as tweeker of the house. - What a bunch
of dumb *** we have running the Gov- Dumber than
whale Shi***t.

Reply to this comment

by usayesterday October 17, 2007 9:15 AM PDT

The United States has NO, ZIP, ZERO, NADA, credibility in terms of lecturing other countries when and when not to conduct military operations for the sake of "defense"...

...even if that "defense" is an offensive maneuver into a foreign country.

So with that said...

...as much of a mess Turkey would create by an invasion force in Northern Iraq, Turkey has every right to conduct its own military operations for the purpose of their own defense.

Reply to this comment

by ramos937 October 17, 2007 9:16 AM PDT

The Armenian House vote should not be taken. How would we feel if Turkey voted to condem the USA for things we did in our history - the civil rights wars, Wounded Knee, Chivington Massacre in CO, GITMO detainees, the Iraq War, etc. We must not go there.

About Turkey going into Iraq - I do not blame Turkey. In the early 1900''s Villas raided into Texas with no one to stop him. Finally, we got mad and, since Mexico failed to stop Villa, we invaded Mexico just prior to WWII.

If a country cannot stop its citizens from raiding another country, the raided country is justified in taking steps to stop such raids.

Reply to this comment

by usayesterday October 17, 2007 9:18 AM PDT

"The US doesn''''t need Turkey - We have two in the
white house, who has afflicted and caused a complete
destabilization in the middle East..."

Posted by rstein6 at 09:14 AM : Oct 17, 2007
..............

I must say you are being quite kind in implying that Bush and Cheney are "turkeys".

I tend to describe them as greedy f***ing a**holes.

Reply to this comment

by grazinggoat October 17, 2007 9:21 AM PDT

I sincerely apologize,on the other issue if the Turkish government choose to side with the Persians and the Soviet Union then we will fight them to one more enemy thats ALL.....
Posted by sunsetbillyb at 09:01 AM : Oct 17, 2007

-History says the Turks and Persians didn''t get along much. They''re natural competitors for the Western Asia power sharing and influence. Turks will not side with Iran. Unfortunately what we may see is the resurgence of AQT (Al-Qaeda In Turkey)! Which is more damaging to the yet shaky Middle-East stability. Unless Persians and Turks show more maturity and step above the traditional hurdles that separated them historically.

Reply to this comment

by sendreidpelo October 17, 2007 9:27 AM PDT

Thanks a lot Pelosi, Lantos, and all of the other cowards and traitors of the Democratic Party and their Hitlerite allies (whom they won''t say nary a word because of the paychecks)for putting our troops in harm''s way and for destablizing two allies - the Turks and the Kurds.

If a single American soldier dies as a result of this, I favor shipping every Democratic member of Congress, especially those like Pelosi and Waxman who have never served a day in their lives in the Armed Forces of this country over to Iraq. Let them go in harm''s way especially after all of their lies about "supporting the troops"...

Supporting America''s enemies is more like it.

Reply to this comment

by hungry1968 October 17, 2007 9:29 AM PDT

Posted by USAyesterday at 09:15 AM : Oct 17, 2007


I agree. Turkey can do whatever it wants to Iraq in regards to stopping the terrorist attacks that are being launched from Iraq.

Seven years ago, America had the influence to be able to negotiate with countries like Turkey, and could use that influence to URGE them not to invade. When we talked other countries used to listen.

Now Russia openly snubs our Secretary''s of State and Defense in high level meetings and delivers warnings to us before high level meetings with one of our enemies, Iran, Venezuela, and North Korea are constantly shooting us the middle finger, China is trying to position itself to own us outright, and nobody on the continent of Africa cares about one single thing we say.

I''d say Bush''s foreign policy is rolling along smoothly.

Reply to this comment

by joehawkinson October 17, 2007 9:34 AM PDT

Turkish foreign minister talked to Rice and others few weeks ago and he said "if you know there are terrorists hiding in Mexico and attacking US citizens on US soil what would you do?".
Truth is PKK is recognized as a terrorist group by US and EU, Turkey asked US and Iraqi government to help but it went nowehere. In fact Kurdish government of northern Iraq publicly defended PKK and stated they would never ban PKK or its activities. Turks believe -Public and the government officials- that US and Kurdish government are aiding PKK in every possible way, including arming them. You know what that means US-Turkey alliance is down the tube. Thanks to Bush and his neocon sh*theads.

Joe

Reply to this comment

by briannorwood October 17, 2007 9:34 AM PDT

I keep thinking about Collin Powell''s "Pottery Barn" remarks before the war.

I wish those neocon idiots would have listened!

Reply to this comment

by usayesterday October 17, 2007 9:37 AM PDT

Posted by hungry1968 at 09:29 AM : Oct 17, 2007
............

Regardless of what the Neo-Cons say about Hillary, (and my lack of excitement about her), Hillary as president would bring an extremely well, worldwide respected statesman and diplomat...

...her husband Bill.

Perhaps it would take the two of them to bring back U.S. credibility and respect among the worlds'' nations.

The worlds'' leaders would probably prefer an adulterer over a murderer any day!

Reply to this comment

by abbe91 October 17, 2007 9:51 AM PDT

"I agree. Turkey can do whatever it wants to Iraq in regards to stopping the terrorist attacks that are being launched from Iraq.
Posted by hungry1968 at 09:29 AM : Oct 17, 2007"

And how would we tell them not to do it when we did it in 2003, supposedly to go after the 911 terrorists ?
Maybe Turkey should claim that the PKK has got WMD''s.
That''s the problem with our occuption of Iraq: we lost credibility.

In the same line of tought. I have no sympathy for the Iran regime but who are we to tell them to shutdown their nuclear program ? On the basis of which international rules ?

Reply to this comment

by abbe91 October 17, 2007 9:58 AM PDT

"... of the Democratic Party and their Hitlerite allies (whom they won''''t say nary a word because of the paychecks) ..."

Let me suggest that you google "Prescott Bush" and "Thyssen" to learn more about "Hitlerite" allies.

"If a single American soldier dies as a result of this, I favor shipping every Democratic member of Congress, especially those like Pelosi and Waxman who have never served a day in their lives in the Armed Forces of this country over to Iraq. Let them go in harm''''s way especially after all of their lies about "supporting the troops"..."
Posted by SendReidPelo at 09:27 AM : Oct 17, 2007"

Why waiting and not shipping the guys responsible for the soldiers killed so far, starting with AWOL Bush and 5-deferments Cheney ?

Reply to this comment

by hungry1968 October 17, 2007 9:59 AM PDT

"Turkish foreign minister talked to Rice and others few weeks ago and he said "if you know there are terrorists hiding in Mexico and attacking US citizens on US soil what would you do?"."
Posted by joehawkinson at 09:34 AM : Oct 17, 2007


If you''re president Bush, you try to push for amnesty for 12 million illegal aliens, ease border restrictions for Mexican trucking companies, and cut funding for the border patrol.

Reply to this comment

by notblue October 17, 2007 9:59 AM PDT

Iran cannot have nukes on the basis they are terrorist supporters and enablers. The radical mullahs are not to be trusted, there agenda is not of civil rights and freedom it is theocracy and repression. America is everything they will not and cannot tolerate in order to remaim in power and have some self perceived relevance. The president of iran has pledged to wipe Israel off the map and people still question why they shouldn''t be allowed a nuclear program????? The only possible answer would be purposeful blind indifference to the FACTS!

Reply to this comment

by abbe91 October 17, 2007 10:13 AM PDT

"people still question why they shouldn''''t be allowed a nuclear program?????
Posted by notblue at 09:59 AM : Oct 17, 2007""

Read again. That wasn''t the question. The question was : what legitimate authority has America to force them to shutdown their nuclear program ? And I would add : what about Russia then ?

As for the terrorist supporters and enablers ... if you accept a definition of a "terrorist" as somebody who kills innocent civilians (historically depending on which side and who wins, they are either called terrorists or patriots, making a definition difficult but I''ll try anyway), then, the US match the definition with Blackwater.

Reply to this comment

by roger_inkart October 17, 2007 10:24 AM PDT

Turkey has a much, much more legitimate claim for military action in Iraq then the US ever did and will. How can we tell them not to?

This is one of the greatest drawback to cowboy diplomacy. It turns the world into the wild west; lawless, brutal and cavalier.

Reply to this comment

by mrmazerati October 17, 2007 10:35 AM PDT

And so it it begins... WWIII. Turkey will invade Iraq and we will be drawn into a conflict with them. Iran will sense opportunity and invade from the east. Russia will ally with Iran. The rest is all downhill from there.

Reply to this comment

by abbe91 October 17, 2007 10:38 AM PDT

"hungry1968..your so easy,liten answer JOE , youre so brave your attacking the frigging Mexicans, a handful of Muslims destroy those towers on 911 and all you do is point to the south?
Posted by sunsetbillyb at 10:30 AM : Oct 17, 2007"

Go figure ... a handful of ***saoudis*** fly planes on WTC towers and we invade Iraq.

Reply to this comment

by hungry1968 October 17, 2007 10:38 AM PDT

hungry1968..your so easy,liten answer JOE , youre so brave your attacking the frigging Mexicans, a handful of Muslims destroy those towers on 911 and all you do is point to the south? over two million muslims live in USA with MOSQUES and all!! speak up damm it!!!
Posted by sunsetbillyb at 10:30 AM : Oct 17, 2007



I was sarcastically responding, to the hypothetical question that was asked. And yes, national security be d*mned, Bush wanted an illegal immigrant superhighway between Mexico and America. And that superhighway wouldn''t just be used by Mexicans, it would be used by terrorists too.

And could you please learn how to type legibly? I can hardly understand that junk you just typed. Further evidence that those under the age of 13 shouldn''t post on these boards - it hampers the adult conversations.

Reply to this comment

by asmauzum October 17, 2007 10:46 AM PDT

It is certain that American goverment is supporting PKK terorist because America wants to establish a Kurdish goverment so that petrol areas can be controlled very easily.America aims to make Kurds a military garrison in middle east because its cheapest way to control and america also wants to make better relations with Turkish R. It is impossible and not logical. Our benefits are different from now on. Turkish goverment will look out for Turkish benefits and will not ask anyone how to behave.

Reply to this comment

by notblue October 17, 2007 10:49 AM PDT

Abbe, when people start splitting hairs and play word games in order to justify unjustifiable positions as in comparing America to radical regimes then the realization must be these people cannot understand the concept of good and evil.

Reply to this comment

by abbe91 October 17, 2007 10:52 AM PDT

"Are you saying most Turks support the killing of millions of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire? The empire that was overthrown to form modern day Turkey?
Posted by nolalou at 08:44 AM : Oct 17, 2007"

Excellent point. If Turkey would just condemn it, it would put an end to that mess. But you see, Turkey always had trouble with his minorities like Armenians, Kurds, ... Admitting there was a genocide is almost admitting that there are Armenians in their country, something they are ashamed of.
An important point to be part of the EU is how you respect minorities in your country. Codemning the genocide would be a first step.
Those who say this is just old stuff and should be forgotten fail to understand nowadays implications.

Reply to this comment

by ioweign October 17, 2007 10:52 AM PDT

Turkish goverment will look out for Turkish benefits and will not ask anyone how to behave.

Posted by asmauzum at 10:46 AM : Oct 17, 2007

Was that the frame of mind back in 1915 when 1.5 million Armenians were murdered ?

Reply to this comment

by v_1618 October 17, 2007 10:55 AM PDT

TURKEY HAS TO GO AHEAD TO PROTECT THEIR SOVEREIGN

Reply to this comment

by asmauzum October 17, 2007 10:57 AM PDT

As the Americans invaded Iraq for petrol money. We are going Iraq to kill terorists, not for money and we will come back to homeland 1 year later. We are not invading,if you are not supporting terorists help us.Iraq is not our enemy,our enemy is terorists that attacks turkish borders.If %u0131raq cannot control them,then we do.

Reply to this comment

by abbe91 October 17, 2007 10:57 AM PDT

"Abbe, when people start splitting hairs and play word games in order to justify unjustifiable positions as in comparing America to radical regimes then the realization must be these people cannot understand the concept of good and evil.
Posted by notblue at 10:49 AM : Oct 17, 2007"

How do you qualify "Operation Northwoods" ? Good or evil ? Just help me understanding ...
Blackwater mercenaries shooting civilians at will, playing war games ? Good or evil ?
Prescott Bush making money with nazis ? Good or evil ?

Reply to this comment

by red164 October 17, 2007 11:00 AM PDT

a handful of Muslims destroy those towers on 911

Posted by sunsetbillyb at 10:30 AM : Oct 17, 2007

INSIDE JOB

NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable

Implicitly acknowledges controlled demolition only means by which towers could have fallen at free fall speed
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, October 16, 2007

NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable

Tuesday, October 16, 2007

Reply to this comment

by clestes-2009 October 17, 2007 11:03 AM PDT

Oh yeah, Turkey attacking Iraq from the north is really going to help stablize Iraq. And I have another beef about the whole idea of "victory over al-quida" BS floating around. One of the claims that they are finished is that IED attacks have dropped from 60 a day to 30 a day.

30 a day attacks is now considered a victory??? How about ZERO a day being a victory??? Has the bar for victory been lowered that low????

That is one of the stupidest claims I have heard and ranks right up there with the original claim that US troops would be in and out of Iraq in 2 months!!

Al-Quida is nothing if not resiliant!! No matter what tactics we use, they adapt and only a COMPLETE FOOL would believe at this point that al-quida was finished.

This claim no doubt originated from some ignorant neocon and is being passed off as a military view. You notice that neither Admiral Fallon or General BetrayUs endorse this fallicy.

Reply to this comment

by abbe91 October 17, 2007 11:06 AM PDT

"hungry1968.. go back to your PORN ...
Posted by sunsetbillyb at 10:44 AM : Oct 17, 2007"

Lack of valid arguments ? That was short ...

Reply to this comment

by mrmazerati October 17, 2007 11:09 AM PDT

Someone posted that 911 was an inside job, citing total collapse of twin towers was unexplainable by NIST. Just because the collapse is not completely understood (as with many structure failures- they''ll be looking at that Minn. bridge for years), does not mean it was an "inside job." Popular Mechanics has a very good website debunking the 911 conspiracy theory: go to http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=1.

Reply to this comment

by jowand October 17, 2007 11:13 AM PDT

NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable

Tuesday, October 16, 2007




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by red164 at 11:00 AM : Oct 17, 2007
Do you live in Roswell NM?

Reply to this comment

by hungry1968 October 17, 2007 11:15 AM PDT

"hungry1968.. go back to your PORN ...
Posted by sunsetbillyb at 10:44 AM : Oct 17, 2007"


Lack of valid arguments ? That was short ...
Posted by abbe91 at 11:06 AM : Oct 17, 2007


Just an insolent child. It can''t read previous posts, then spouts off in an incoherent rambling type post. When I reply, I get "Go back to your porn".
Just a child and it''s not worth my effort to debate it.

Reply to this comment

by red164 October 17, 2007 11:16 AM PDT

Posted by jowand at 11:13 AM : Oct 17, 2007

Is Santa coming to your house?

Reply to this comment

by jowand October 17, 2007 11:16 AM PDT

a handful of Muslims destroy those towers on 911

Posted by sunsetbillyb at 10:30 AM : Oct 17, 2007

INSIDE JOB

NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable

Implicitly acknowledges controlled demolition only means by which towers could have fallen at free fall speed
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, October 16, 2007

NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable

Tuesday, October 16, 2007




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by red164 at 11:00 AM : Oct 17, 2007

Latest comprehensive independent report is. Floor trusses buckled under high temperatures snapping the outside verticle girders. There is only a conspiracy if you want to find one, hating Bush is a prerequisite, go with the real science and not with the political science.

Reply to this comment

by jowand October 17, 2007 11:17 AM PDT

Is Santa coming to your house?


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Posted by red164 at 11:16 AM : Oct 17, 2007

Nope and Hillary isn''t going to the White House, both are myths propogated by the media.

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[mcvet]

The Fascist in what was once the Republican Party are over joyed. Another war for them to make profits with.

[jowand]

The Fascist in what was once the Republican Party are over joyed. Another war for them to make profits with.


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Posted by MCVet at 07:13 AM : Oct 17, 2007

Give the credit where it''s due on this one, Pelosi and friends back stabbing the military once more. This is another Jimmy Carter fiasco decision, fortunately it''s dead before it arrives.

[mcvet]

Give the credit where it''''s due on this one, Pelosi and friends back stabbing the military once more. This is another Jimmy Carter fiasco decision, fortunately it''''s dead before it arrives.


Posted by jowand at 07:23 AM : Oct 17, 2007
+ report abuse

So in your poor simple fascist mind the actions of the speaker of the house, branding the actions of a government nearly 100 years ago for what it was, is the reason for this? ROFLMAO Even for a Nazi like yourself that''s just plain stupid. The Turks and the Kurds have been fighting now for HUNDREDS of years. Saddam and his Government kept the Kurds in Iraq and the Turks were happy. When Bush decided to be the dictator of America AND Iraq, he gave the Kurds the chance to resume the fight. It''s okay to be stupid, you couldn''t be a Nazi otherwise, but at least have SOME honor. The Turks were LOOKING for an excuse any excuse!! Sieg Heil Bush!! You really aren''t the sharpest tool in the old shed are ya there?

[jowand]

When Bush decided to be the dictator of America AND Iraq, he gave the Kurds the chance to resume the fight. It''''s okay to be stupid, you couldn''''t be a Nazi otherwise, but at least have SOME honor. The Turks were LOOKING for an excuse any excuse!! Sieg Heil Bush!! You really aren''''t the sharpest tool in the old shed are ya there?


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Posted by MCVet at 07:33 AM : Oct 17, 2007

You''re thicker than two short pieces of wood Sparkless, your swastika is on crooked straighten up.
You''re gal Pelosi is doing this to undermine and back stab the military. ZIG HELL

[asmauzum]

As a Turkish Citizen, i would like to say that if congress accept Armenian Genocide, relations between USA and Turkey will be decreased and we will never call USA as an ally anymore. So that we will never buy planes or tanks or rockets from USA, maybe we can work with Russians on Iran issue.

jowand wrote:

"You''''re gal Pelosi is doing this to undermine and back stab the military."

GW Bush is the biggest enemy our troops have got - long before the invasion even began.

You fascist right wing extremist morons have no option to support Herr Bush - because you''re all too fu_king stupid to think for yourselves.

[jowand]

jowand wrote:

"You''''''''re gal Pelosi is doing this to undermine and back stab the military."

GW Bush is the biggest enemy our troops have got - long before the invasion even began.

You fascist right wing extremist morons have no option to support Herr Bush - because you''''re all too fu_king stupid to think for yourselves.


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Posted by mcdazz at 08:15 AM : Oct 17, 2007

You have a potty mouth but that doesn''t change the fact that Pelosi really screwed up on this one. If she doen''t want the war in Iraq to go on defund it. Pelosi is trying to cause a crisis in the US military while they are engaged with an enemy, to force a withdrawal of US forces and then proclaim defeat under Bush.

[formrusmcsgt]

Pelosi is trying to cause a crisis in the US military while they are engaged with an enemy, to force a withdrawal of US forces and then proclaim defeat under Bush.

Posted by jowand at 08:24 AM : Oct 17, 2007

As if Bush would be able to contend that his boondoggle was some kind of victory without the resolution.

Get real.

[afmca]

I am sorry but I feel Turkey has the right to defend its territory and its people. The Kurds have an autonomous territory that they could turn into a viable and responsible state. Instead they continue to live in the past and try to take regress for century old issues. If people in this area would start looking to the future instead of always living in the past - maybe they would live in peace and their children would have a future. After we invaded IRAQ on a lie; we have no right to deny Turkey the right of self-protection. The Kurds in this case are terrorists.

[radiob-2009]

Related:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21312504/

As the majority of posters along with the NIE, Chathman House and various others have been stating for some time OUR invasion and occupation of Iraq has only ignited the war on terror.

[nolalou]

asmauzum,

I do not understand why Turks would be offended by a resolution condemning genocide committed by the Ottoman Empire! That empire ended long ago, and was replaced by modern day Turkey! We condemn Nazi Germany for the holocaust, but post-nazi Germany dosn''t take offense, in fact most German''s agree that holocaust was wrong.

Are you saying most Turks support the killing of millions of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire? The empire that was overthrown to form modern day Turkey?

[antoniof123]

The neocons didn''t see this one coming either.

God Republicans have become dumber then dirt.

[ioweign]

As a Turkish Citizen, i would like to say that if congress accept Armenian Genocide, relations between USA and Turkey will be decreased and we will never call USA as an ally anymore. So that we will never buy planes or tanks or rockets from USA, maybe we can work with Russians on Iran issue.

Posted by asmauzum at 08:12 AM : Oct 17, 2007

Your post proves that it was Genocide and you haven''t changed since 1915. With an attitude like that, you will fit right in with Russia and Iran !

[gkc99]

"As a Turkish Citizen, i would like to say that if congress accept Armenian Genocide, relations between USA and Turkey will be decreased and we will never call USA as an ally anymore. So that we will never buy planes or tanks or rockets from USA, maybe we can work with Russians on Iran issue." --Posted by asmauzum



I think not. Most European countries recognize the Armenian Holocaust, but Turkey is perpetually hat in hand begging to be let into the European Union, aren''t you? No, there will be a little hissy fit, and the whole thing will blow over.

And why shouldn''t the Kurdish people have their own country?

[hungry1968]

You have a potty mouth but that doesn''''t change the fact that Pelosi really screwed up on this one. If she doen''''t want the war in Iraq to go on defund it. Pelosi is trying to cause a crisis in the US military while they are engaged with an enemy, to force a withdrawal of US forces and then proclaim defeat under Bush.
Posted by jowand at 08:24 AM : Oct 17, 2007



Call it what it really is:

Turkey wanted to invade Iraq and was looking for an excuse - ANY EXCUSE - to do it. Congress could have passed a resolution saying that Turkey''s grass isn''t as green as Syria, and they would use that as a catalyst to invade.

Get real, would you? What could this resolution have possibly done to cause an invasion of Iraq? Nothing. 22 other countries posted similar resolutions, why aren''t you belly aching about that.

I''ll tell you this though: If Saddam Hussein was still in power, there''s NO WAY Turkey would be invading. Yet even further proof that the invasion of Iraq is a regional disaster.

[rstein6]

The US doesn''t need Turkey - We have two in the
white house, who has afflicted and caused a complete
destabilization in the middle East, a financial disaster for the economy, and a hardship for the
future "childrens" and a complete disaster for our military, in the name of the $$$$. Congress has
quite dilengtly demonstrated its ineptitude with
Nancy Pelosi as tweeker of the house. - What a bunch
of dumb *** we have running the Gov- Dumber than
whale Shi***t.

[usayesterday]

The United States has NO, ZIP, ZERO, NADA, credibility in terms of lecturing other countries when and when not to conduct military operations for the sake of "defense"...

...even if that "defense" is an offensive maneuver into a foreign country.

So with that said...

...as much of a mess Turkey would create by an invasion force in Northern Iraq, Turkey has every right to conduct its own military operations for the purpose of their own defense.

[ramos937]

The Armenian House vote should not be taken. How would we feel if Turkey voted to condem the USA for things we did in our history - the civil rights wars, Wounded Knee, Chivington Massacre in CO, GITMO detainees, the Iraq War, etc. We must not go there.

About Turkey going into Iraq - I do not blame Turkey. In the early 1900''s Villas raided into Texas with no one to stop him. Finally, we got mad and, since Mexico failed to stop Villa, we invaded Mexico just prior to WWII.

If a country cannot stop its citizens from raiding another country, the raided country is justified in taking steps to stop such raids.

[usayesterday]

"The US doesn''''t need Turkey - We have two in the
white house, who has afflicted and caused a complete
destabilization in the middle East..."

Posted by rstein6 at 09:14 AM : Oct 17, 2007
..............

I must say you are being quite kind in implying that Bush and Cheney are "turkeys".

I tend to describe them as greedy f***ing a**holes.

[grazinggoat]

I sincerely apologize,on the other issue if the Turkish government choose to side with the Persians and the Soviet Union then we will fight them to one more enemy thats ALL.....
Posted by sunsetbillyb at 09:01 AM : Oct 17, 2007

-History says the Turks and Persians didn''t get along much. They''re natural competitors for the Western Asia power sharing and influence. Turks will not side with Iran. Unfortunately what we may see is the resurgence of AQT (Al-Qaeda In Turkey)! Which is more damaging to the yet shaky Middle-East stability. Unless Persians and Turks show more maturity and step above the traditional hurdles that separated them historically.

[sendreidpelo]

Thanks a lot Pelosi, Lantos, and all of the other cowards and traitors of the Democratic Party and their Hitlerite allies (whom they won''t say nary a word because of the paychecks)for putting our troops in harm''s way and for destablizing two allies - the Turks and the Kurds.

If a single American soldier dies as a result of this, I favor shipping every Democratic member of Congress, especially those like Pelosi and Waxman who have never served a day in their lives in the Armed Forces of this country over to Iraq. Let them go in harm''s way especially after all of their lies about "supporting the troops"...

Supporting America''s enemies is more like it.

[hungry1968]

Posted by USAyesterday at 09:15 AM : Oct 17, 2007


I agree. Turkey can do whatever it wants to Iraq in regards to stopping the terrorist attacks that are being launched from Iraq.

Seven years ago, America had the influence to be able to negotiate with countries like Turkey, and could use that influence to URGE them not to invade. When we talked other countries used to listen.

Now Russia openly snubs our Secretary''s of State and Defense in high level meetings and delivers warnings to us before high level meetings with one of our enemies, Iran, Venezuela, and North Korea are constantly shooting us the middle finger, China is trying to position itself to own us outright, and nobody on the continent of Africa cares about one single thing we say.

I''d say Bush''s foreign policy is rolling along smoothly.

[joehawkinson]

Turkish foreign minister talked to Rice and others few weeks ago and he said "if you know there are terrorists hiding in Mexico and attacking US citizens on US soil what would you do?".
Truth is PKK is recognized as a terrorist group by US and EU, Turkey asked US and Iraqi government to help but it went nowehere. In fact Kurdish government of northern Iraq publicly defended PKK and stated they would never ban PKK or its activities. Turks believe -Public and the government officials- that US and Kurdish government are aiding PKK in every possible way, including arming them. You know what that means US-Turkey alliance is down the tube. Thanks to Bush and his neocon sh*theads.

Joe

[briannorwood]

I keep thinking about Collin Powell''s "Pottery Barn" remarks before the war.

I wish those neocon idiots would have listened!

[usayesterday]

Posted by hungry1968 at 09:29 AM : Oct 17, 2007
............

Regardless of what the Neo-Cons say about Hillary, (and my lack of excitement about her), Hillary as president would bring an extremely well, worldwide respected statesman and diplomat...

...her husband Bill.

Perhaps it would take the two of them to bring back U.S. credibility and respect among the worlds'' nations.

The worlds'' leaders would probably prefer an adulterer over a murderer any day!

[abbe91]

"I agree. Turkey can do whatever it wants to Iraq in regards to stopping the terrorist attacks that are being launched from Iraq.
Posted by hungry1968 at 09:29 AM : Oct 17, 2007"

And how would we tell them not to do it when we did it in 2003, supposedly to go after the 911 terrorists ?
Maybe Turkey should claim that the PKK has got WMD''s.
That''s the problem with our occuption of Iraq: we lost credibility.

In the same line of tought. I have no sympathy for the Iran regime but who are we to tell them to shutdown their nuclear program ? On the basis of which international rules ?

[abbe91]

"... of the Democratic Party and their Hitlerite allies (whom they won''''t say nary a word because of the paychecks) ..."

Let me suggest that you google "Prescott Bush" and "Thyssen" to learn more about "Hitlerite" allies.

"If a single American soldier dies as a result of this, I favor shipping every Democratic member of Congress, especially those like Pelosi and Waxman who have never served a day in their lives in the Armed Forces of this country over to Iraq. Let them go in harm''''s way especially after all of their lies about "supporting the troops"..."
Posted by SendReidPelo at 09:27 AM : Oct 17, 2007"

Why waiting and not shipping the guys responsible for the soldiers killed so far, starting with AWOL Bush and 5-deferments Cheney ?

[hungry1968]

"Turkish foreign minister talked to Rice and others few weeks ago and he said "if you know there are terrorists hiding in Mexico and attacking US citizens on US soil what would you do?"."
Posted by joehawkinson at 09:34 AM : Oct 17, 2007


If you''re president Bush, you try to push for amnesty for 12 million illegal aliens, ease border restrictions for Mexican trucking companies, and cut funding for the border patrol.

[notblue]

Iran cannot have nukes on the basis they are terrorist supporters and enablers. The radical mullahs are not to be trusted, there agenda is not of civil rights and freedom it is theocracy and repression. America is everything they will not and cannot tolerate in order to remaim in power and have some self perceived relevance. The president of iran has pledged to wipe Israel off the map and people still question why they shouldn''t be allowed a nuclear program????? The only possible answer would be purposeful blind indifference to the FACTS!

[abbe91]

"people still question why they shouldn''''t be allowed a nuclear program?????
Posted by notblue at 09:59 AM : Oct 17, 2007""

Read again. That wasn''t the question. The question was : what legitimate authority has America to force them to shutdown their nuclear program ? And I would add : what about Russia then ?

As for the terrorist supporters and enablers ... if you accept a definition of a "terrorist" as somebody who kills innocent civilians (historically depending on which side and who wins, they are either called terrorists or patriots, making a definition difficult but I''ll try anyway), then, the US match the definition with Blackwater.

[roger_inkart]

Turkey has a much, much more legitimate claim for military action in Iraq then the US ever did and will. How can we tell them not to?

This is one of the greatest drawback to cowboy diplomacy. It turns the world into the wild west; lawless, brutal and cavalier.

[mrmazerati]

And so it it begins... WWIII. Turkey will invade Iraq and we will be drawn into a conflict with them. Iran will sense opportunity and invade from the east. Russia will ally with Iran. The rest is all downhill from there.

[abbe91]

"hungry1968..your so easy,liten answer JOE , youre so brave your attacking the frigging Mexicans, a handful of Muslims destroy those towers on 911 and all you do is point to the south?
Posted by sunsetbillyb at 10:30 AM : Oct 17, 2007"

Go figure ... a handful of ***saoudis*** fly planes on WTC towers and we invade Iraq.

[hungry1968]

hungry1968..your so easy,liten answer JOE , youre so brave your attacking the frigging Mexicans, a handful of Muslims destroy those towers on 911 and all you do is point to the south? over two million muslims live in USA with MOSQUES and all!! speak up damm it!!!
Posted by sunsetbillyb at 10:30 AM : Oct 17, 2007



I was sarcastically responding, to the hypothetical question that was asked. And yes, national security be d*mned, Bush wanted an illegal immigrant superhighway between Mexico and America. And that superhighway wouldn''t just be used by Mexicans, it would be used by terrorists too.

And could you please learn how to type legibly? I can hardly understand that junk you just typed. Further evidence that those under the age of 13 shouldn''t post on these boards - it hampers the adult conversations.

[asmauzum]

It is certain that American goverment is supporting PKK terorist because America wants to establish a Kurdish goverment so that petrol areas can be controlled very easily.America aims to make Kurds a military garrison in middle east because its cheapest way to control and america also wants to make better relations with Turkish R. It is impossible and not logical. Our benefits are different from now on. Turkish goverment will look out for Turkish benefits and will not ask anyone how to behave.

[notblue]

Abbe, when people start splitting hairs and play word games in order to justify unjustifiable positions as in comparing America to radical regimes then the realization must be these people cannot understand the concept of good and evil.

[abbe91]

"Are you saying most Turks support the killing of millions of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire? The empire that was overthrown to form modern day Turkey?
Posted by nolalou at 08:44 AM : Oct 17, 2007"

Excellent point. If Turkey would just condemn it, it would put an end to that mess. But you see, Turkey always had trouble with his minorities like Armenians, Kurds, ... Admitting there was a genocide is almost admitting that there are Armenians in their country, something they are ashamed of.
An important point to be part of the EU is how you respect minorities in your country. Codemning the genocide would be a first step.
Those who say this is just old stuff and should be forgotten fail to understand nowadays implications.

[ioweign]

Turkish goverment will look out for Turkish benefits and will not ask anyone how to behave.

Posted by asmauzum at 10:46 AM : Oct 17, 2007

Was that the frame of mind back in 1915 when 1.5 million Armenians were murdered ?

[v_1618]

TURKEY HAS TO GO AHEAD TO PROTECT THEIR SOVEREIGN

[asmauzum]

As the Americans invaded Iraq for petrol money. We are going Iraq to kill terorists, not for money and we will come back to homeland 1 year later. We are not invading,if you are not supporting terorists help us.Iraq is not our enemy,our enemy is terorists that attacks turkish borders.If %u0131raq cannot control them,then we do.

[abbe91]

"Abbe, when people start splitting hairs and play word games in order to justify unjustifiable positions as in comparing America to radical regimes then the realization must be these people cannot understand the concept of good and evil.
Posted by notblue at 10:49 AM : Oct 17, 2007"

How do you qualify "Operation Northwoods" ? Good or evil ? Just help me understanding ...
Blackwater mercenaries shooting civilians at will, playing war games ? Good or evil ?
Prescott Bush making money with nazis ? Good or evil ?

[red164]

a handful of Muslims destroy those towers on 911

Posted by sunsetbillyb at 10:30 AM : Oct 17, 2007

INSIDE JOB

NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable

Implicitly acknowledges controlled demolition only means by which towers could have fallen at free fall speed
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, October 16, 2007

NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable

Tuesday, October 16, 2007

[clestes-2009]

Oh yeah, Turkey attacking Iraq from the north is really going to help stablize Iraq. And I have another beef about the whole idea of "victory over al-quida" BS floating around. One of the claims that they are finished is that IED attacks have dropped from 60 a day to 30 a day.

30 a day attacks is now considered a victory??? How about ZERO a day being a victory??? Has the bar for victory been lowered that low????

That is one of the stupidest claims I have heard and ranks right up there with the original claim that US troops would be in and out of Iraq in 2 months!!

Al-Quida is nothing if not resiliant!! No matter what tactics we use, they adapt and only a COMPLETE FOOL would believe at this point that al-quida was finished.

This claim no doubt originated from some ignorant neocon and is being passed off as a military view. You notice that neither Admiral Fallon or General BetrayUs endorse this fallicy.

[abbe91]

"hungry1968.. go back to your PORN ...
Posted by sunsetbillyb at 10:44 AM : Oct 17, 2007"

Lack of valid arguments ? That was short ...

[mrmazerati]

Someone posted that 911 was an inside job, citing total collapse of twin towers was unexplainable by NIST. Just because the collapse is not completely understood (as with many structure failures- they''ll be looking at that Minn. bridge for years), does not mean it was an "inside job." Popular Mechanics has a very good website debunking the 911 conspiracy theory: go to http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=1.

[jowand]

NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable

Tuesday, October 16, 2007




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Posted by red164 at 11:00 AM : Oct 17, 2007
Do you live in Roswell NM?

[hungry1968]

"hungry1968.. go back to your PORN ...
Posted by sunsetbillyb at 10:44 AM : Oct 17, 2007"


Lack of valid arguments ? That was short ...
Posted by abbe91 at 11:06 AM : Oct 17, 2007


Just an insolent child. It can''t read previous posts, then spouts off in an incoherent rambling type post. When I reply, I get "Go back to your porn".
Just a child and it''s not worth my effort to debate it.

[red164]

Posted by jowand at 11:13 AM : Oct 17, 2007

Is Santa coming to your house?

[jowand]

a handful of Muslims destroy those towers on 911

Posted by sunsetbillyb at 10:30 AM : Oct 17, 2007

INSIDE JOB

NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable

Implicitly acknowledges controlled demolition only means by which towers could have fallen at free fall speed
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, October 16, 2007

NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable

Tuesday, October 16, 2007




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by red164 at 11:00 AM : Oct 17, 2007

Latest comprehensive independent report is. Floor trusses buckled under high temperatures snapping the outside verticle girders. There is only a conspiracy if you want to find one, hating Bush is a prerequisite, go with the real science and not with the political science.

[jowand]

Is Santa coming to your house?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by red164 at 11:16 AM : Oct 17, 2007

Nope and Hillary isn''t going to the White House, both are myths propogated by the media.