"Difficult Time" In U.S.-Turkey Alliance

Rice Urges Restraint Toward Kurds; U.S. Officials Regret Armenian Genocide Label

(AP)  Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Saturday urged Turkey to show restraint in its response to attacks from Kurdish rebels based in northern Iraq, as two visiting U.S. officials expressed regret over a congressional resolution on Armenians that has severely strained relations.

Turkish leaders have appeared to be less receptive to Washington's appeals since a committee of U.S. lawmakers passed the resolution last week labeling as genocide the World War I-era killings of Armenians by the Ottomans - a characterization that Turkey rejects.

The issue raised concerns that, as a result of the resolution, Turkey is more likely to take unilateral military action against rebels in northern Iraq.

"Did they seek permission from anyone when they came from a distance of 10,000 kilometers and hit Iraq?" Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said of the U.S. on Friday. "We do not need anyone else's advice."

"If such an option is chosen, whatever its price, it will be paid," Erdogan said, responding to a question about the possible repercussions of a northern Iraq campaign.

Rice, speaking during a visit to Moscow on Saturday, acknowledged that "it's a difficult time for the relationship" between the two allies.

Two senior U.S. officials flew to Ankara from Moscow, where they were on the trip with Rice and U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

The two are Dan Fried, assistant secretary of state for European affairs, and Eric Edelman, who is the undersecretary of defense for policy and was the United States' ambassador to Turkey from July 2003 to June 2005.

The U.S. House of Representatives' Foreign Affairs Committee approved the nonbinding resolution on Wednesday. Its passage was deemed an insult by most Turks and prompted Turkey to recall its ambassador from Washington for consultations. The resolution could be brought to a vote in the full House by the end of the year.

"Secretary of State Rice Condoleezza Rice asked us before we came here to express that the Bush administration is opposed to this resolution," Edelman told a group of reporters in Ankara after meeting with officials from Turkish Foreign Ministry. NTV television broadcast his remarks with simultaneous Turkish translation. The AP translated them back to English.

The two Americans also wanted to assure Turkey that they will do whatever they can to prevent the genocide resolution from going to a vote in the entire House of Representatives, a U.S. official told The Associated Press. The official declined to be named because of the sensitivity of the matter.

The administration of U.S. President George W. Bush opposed the measure out of concern it would harm relations with an important NATO ally and could generate added danger for U.S. soldiers in Iraq.

At the same time, Turkey, which has long considered a cross-border operation against bases of the Kurdistan Workers' Party in Iraq, has moved more troops and equipment to its side of the border after a recent surge in rebel attacks.

The separatist rebels have been fighting the Turkish government since 1984 in a conflict that has claimed tens of thousands of lives.

Washington opposes any unilateral Turkish action that could destabilize one of the few relatively peaceful parts of Iraq.

A vote in Turkey's parliament authorizing troops to go into Iraq is expected after the weekend. Legislators are expected to vote strongly in favor of action.

The visiting officials presented the U.S. concern with Turkey's military plans.

"Turkish officials told us what has happened in (the province of) Sirnak near the Iraqi border, and we told our concerns" about a military incursion, Edelman said.

The two Americans told reporters they would convey Turkey's unease over rebel activity in Iraqi territory to Iraqi officials. They also said they might return to Turkey for more discussions after the weekend.

Rice said she spoke Friday by telephone with Turkey's president, prime minister and foreign minister about the genocide resolution. "They were dismayed," she said.

In discussing their reaction to the resolution and activities of the Kurdistan Workers' Party in northern Iraq, she said, "I urged restraint."

"The Turkish government, I think, is trying to react responsibly. They recognize how hard we worked to prevent that vote from taking place," the secretary said.

[speakinup]

so, sunsetbillyb... I repeat for your benefit:

Thirdly, as for the countries of IRAN, RUSSIA, SYRIA, NORTH KOREA, LEBANON, VENEZUELA, CHINA,& CUBA; I suspect you''ll find the "world" agrees with us.

Yeah - I do think the world agrees with us about our policy on these countries.

You are just amazing, sunsetbillyb. I offer you a point counter-point argument, and your retort, just like the typical liberal''s - bears no relation to what I said. (Note - I wasn''t talking about which planet I was from.) Oh, ok I did call you a Moron (note - there is one r in Moron).

I do see you make it a point of the US of A being my country. Are you from Britain, or just out there bashing those that are willing to take on injustice in the world ?

[speakinup]

Below is a repeat of the post I made earlier, as I''d like everyone to see how this myserable liberal took my snetence out of context:

"THE UNITED STATES IS IN DIFFICULT TIME WITH IRAN RUSSIA SYRIA IRAQ AFGHANISTAN PAKISTAN NORTH KOREA CHINA INDIA AFRICA SAUDI ARABIA LEBANON VENEZUELA CUBA ..COME ON.. THE UNITED STATES AND BRITAIN ARE IN A DEEP DIFFICULT TIME WITH ALMOST THE ENTIRE WORLD ...
Posted by V_1618

First off - AFRICA isn''t a country twit.

Secondly - I would not characterize the US and British relationship with India, Afghanistan, China & Saudi Arabia as a "deeply difficult" one.

Thirdly, as for the countries of IRAN, RUSSIA, SYRIA, NORTH KOREA, LEBANON, VENEZUELA, CHINA,& CUBA; I suspect you''ll find the "world" agrees with us.

But since you characterized the US and Britain as having a "deeply difficult time with almost the entire world". I find myself curious as to how many countries you think are in the world...

Hint, if you are able to add, you are only one hundred seventy-eight short. That would hardly be the rest of the world we''re in trouble with. Moron.

[down-ndirty]

"Secretary of State Rice Condoleezza Rice asked us before we came here to express that the Bush administration is opposed to this resolution,"
_________________________________

Isn''t the current House Foreign Affairs Committee part of the "Bush administration?"

The "Armenian Holocaust" was the forcible deportation and massacre of as many as 1.5 million Armenians from 1915 to 1917 during the government of the Young Turks.

Turkey rejects the event as genocide. Armenians living outside of Armenia have pushed for formal recognition by various governments and 22 countries and 40 U.S. states have recognized it as genocide and an historical event. However, the U.S. government has not. That''s what the Foreign Affairs Committee is trying to do.

My question is, "After almost 100 years, what is the point?" On the other hand, we recognize the Jewish Holocaust, why not recognize the Armenian Holocaust?

I''m waiting for someone to propose that the forcible removal and extermination of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of indiginous people of the North American continent was genocide.

[speakinup]

sunsetbillyb - so, I''ll assume yo''ve served, right ?

[speakinup]

sunsetbillyb - ARMY - been there, done that - 1972-76.

[starleo146]

Miss rice is as competent to be Secretary of State as bush is to being a President. And that ain''''t sayin'''' much. It seems as if fate has gathered up all the idiots, crooks, liars, perverts, incompetents, etc. and said "Let''''s see if The United States can survive this!" There''''s not a day that goes by that there''''s not another country those feet we didn''''t step on or another scandel uncovered. bush, you are one useless dog.

Posted by leftyintexas at 01:09 AM : Oct 14,

Why isn''t he on the phone calming Turkey down, can he not talk to anyone? If he can''t I am sure Darth Vader can speak, hasn''t had a problem so far.Diplomacy is not his game, pointing fingers are.

[starleo146]

I think we all got off topic, the question is should the House have brought up this resolution Now? I honestly do not know much about what happened between the Armenians and the Turks, I can give a little history but not much. Today we really need Turkey to get the equipment to the troops etc and this is not good for us, good for the Armenians but in 2015, it will be a hundred years. Why now? I think because, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein have a large constituency in California is WHY. They gave no credence to the troops and this caused great harm. I am not a republican either. Our side make mistakes and this was one I feel.We needed Turkey for withdrawal as well.

[starleo146]

They should get over it. If they want they can pass a resolution about us having killed so many Native Americans hundreds of years ago and call it a genocide. Why not?

Posted by fibonacci_ at 02:40 PM : Oct 14, 2007

I am not a native American but I really agree with your post. It will be about time.

[starleo146]

Nancy_Naive

Maybe the congress should make an amendment to apologize to all Native Americans for what the did to them. We are great at pointing fingers at everyone else, but ignore what we do for gain. 100 years from now we will be apologizing to the IrAqi people. The Native Americans were here first, and one thing they knew how to take care of this planet, I doubt we would have all we are having now. I always felt we have done a grave disservice to the native Americans and to tell you the truth we still are.

[fibonacci_]

They should get over it. If they want they can pass a resolution about us having killed so many Native Americans hundreds of years ago and call it a genocide. Why not?

[down-ndirty]

Evicted? Yeah, from the planet. Oh, I see, because they were already the victims of a cruelty perpetrated by others, than that makes them fair game?
Posted by Nancy_Naive at 06:30 AM : Oct 14, 2007
________________________

Oh, I see, too. It doesn''t matter that the Powhatans wiped out 90% of the Kecoughtans, blame their entire demise on the English settlers.

You picked the wrong tribe as an example, and your "reasoning" is based on passion rather than common sense and facts.

[down-ndirty]

The second weapon was genocide. Given a week, the Japanese would have surrendered.

"after all, Japan attacked us." -- the earmark of revenge; revenge the earmark of genocide.
Posted by Nancy_Naive at 06:48 AM : Oct 14, 2007
____________________________

"...would have surrendered...?" Do you know something that the WWII U.S. military leaders and Truman didn''t know? The only "humane" way to end the war would have been for the Allies to invade Japan; that would have resulted in a large number of Allied casualties.

TWO atomic bombs were dropped and it STILL took Hirohito another SIX days to surrender. So your reasoning is faulty.

You seem to forget that by 1941 Japan was already invading Manchuria and mainland China and was intent on extending its colonial realm.

"...earmark of revenge...?" Perhaps you forget that the Japanese were "determined" to win...at any cost. After all, like the modern day terrorists, weren''t the "Kamakazi" pilots willing to commit suicide for the ideals of their fanatical emporer?

You base your opinions on passion instead of common sense.

[speakinup]

"THE UNITED STATES IS IN DIFFICULT TIME WITH IRAN RUSSIA SYRIA IRAQ AFGHANISTAN PAKISTAN NORTH KOREA CHINA INDIA AFRICA SAUDI ARABIA LEBANON VENEZUELA CUBA ..COME ON.. THE UNITED STATES AND BRITAIN ARE IN A DEEP DIFFICULT TIME WITH ALMOST THE ENTIRE WORLD ...
Posted by V_1618

First off - AFRICA isn''t a country twit.

Secondly - I would not characterize the US and British relationship with India, Afghanistan, China & Saudi Arabia as a "deeply difficult" one.

Thirdly, as for the countries of IRAN, RUSSIA, SYRIA, NORTH KOREA, LEBANON, VENEZUELA, CHINA,& CUBA; I suspect you''ll find the "world" agrees with us.

But since you characterized the US and Britain as having a "deeply difficult time with almost the entire world". I find myself curious as to how many countries you think are in the world...

Hint, if you are able to add, you are only one hundred seventy-eight short. That would hardly be the rest of the world we''re in trouble with. Moron.

[speakinup]

Nancy_Naive, during war time, Militaristic governments have EXCELLENT communications. No doubt, since city-wide bombings were an every day occurance for Japan at the time, their information network (you have hear of radio, right?) was reporting daily as to targets and damage.

Since Hiroshima is 421 miles from Tokyo - I rather doubt your assessment is likely.

What I do find likely is that your are an Indian Tribe member that has an axe to grind about the privileged relationship you have with the US government. Close ?

[v_1618]

DIFFICULT TIME WITH TURKEY.. COME ON WHAT A JOKE... THE UNITED STATES IS IN DIFFICULT TIME WITH IRAN RUSSIA SYRIA IRAQ AFGHANISTAN PAKISTAN NORTH KOREA CHINA INDIA AFRICA SAUDI ARABIA LEBANON VENEZUELA CUBA ..COME ON.. THE UNITED STATES AND BRITAIN ARE IN A DEEP DIFFICULT TIME WITH ALMOST THE ENTIRE WORLD ...

[missingamerica]

The second weapon was genocide. Given a week, the Japanese would have surrendered.

"after all, Japan attacked us." -- the earmark of revenge; revenge the earmark of genocide.

Regards,

Posted by Nancy_Naive at 06:48 AM : Oct 14, 2007

I''m curious as to what sources led you to draw that conclusion? In particular, the source of your statement that the Japanese would have surrendered, "given a week"?

[down-ndirty]

We also need to remember that we left the Kurds to twist in the wind at the end of WWII, Posted by LawyerTom1 at 01:09 AM : Oct 14, 2007
_______________________

We left the Kurds to twist in the wind long before WWII.

As a nation, Kurdistan was erased from world geography after WWI when the Allies carved up the middle east and denied the Kurds a nation-state. What we know as "Kurdistan" today is actually a "cultural" area that covers many countries.

U.S. government response to the plight of the Kurds has been "classic Washington politics" in that the Kurds were "used" when our government wanted to hurt Saddam and then turning its back on them when they were no longer useful.

Where was the promised U.S. support of the Kurds against Saddam when they needed it most?

Who gave Saddam WMD, which he used against the Kurds?
Answer: Reagan

The Iranian dictator "Shah" suppressed the Kurds. Who restored the "Shah" to power in 1953?
Answer: Eisenhower

[down-ndirty]

You may not want to believe it, but those that were sacrificed in both cities were far less than the amount that would have lost their lives has the bombs not been used.
Posted by speakinup at 07:59 PM : Oct 13, 2007
_______________________________

Truman agonized over the decision to drop the bombs. He knew, that if he didn''t take the drastic measure to stop the war, that millions more U.S. soldiers, sailors, and Marines could die in an endless war.

Truman made the right decision; after all, Japan attacked us.

[down-ndirty]

You can start by apologizing to the Kecoughtan tribe -- the first to be "ethnicly cleansed".
Posted by Nancy_Naive at 07:38 PM : Oct 13, 2007
________________________

Don''t you mean the Powhatans? The Kecoughtans were over 1000 people with 300 houses in 1598 before being conquered by the Powhatans, and by 1608 the Kecoughtans were a village of 18 houses.

While it''s true that the English evicted them from their lands it''s also true that the Powhatans subjugated them at least ten years prior and, for the most part, the Kecoughtans were slaves of the Powhatans. However, by the late 1600s, the Powhatan Confederacy also disappeared.

[alphaa10-2009]

LawyerTom1 said, " Leave events of a century ago to the historians."
---
All reasonable points, Tom, but whether speaking softly around China (for practical advantage) or speaking softly around Turkey (for practical advantage) or around Saddam Hussein (for practical advantage), this country loses its sense of the truth and of itself when it burlesques Disraeli and tries to finesse its way over complex situations without dropping a dinner napkin.

The soul of this nation is the courage to witness to the truth, to the freedom of ideas. That has cost us dearly in our past, but it remains our signature as free Americans.

And this question-- how can you be critical of Bush, and not also be truthful about the genocide against one million Armenians and at least an equal number of Greek natives of land the Ottomans claimed? Hitler was inspired to his murderous plans when he reflected the world did not seem to care about one million dead Armenians.