Insanity Defense In Stolen Fetus Case

Lawyers Say Woman Who Killed A Friend And Cut The Baby From Her Womb Is Mentally Ill

(CBS/AP)  The mother of a woman who cut a baby from the womb of an acquaintance she killed testified that she caught her then-husband having sex with her daughter in 1984.

Montgomery, 39, is accused of strangling Stinnett, 23, on Dec. 16, 2004 and using a kitchen knife to cut the baby from her womb.

The baby, Victoria Jo Stinnett, survived and is now almost 3 years old.

Judy Shaughnessy, Montgomery's mother, testified Friday she found then-husband Jack Kleiner having sex with Montgomery in 1984, when Montgomery would have been about 16. She testified as attorneys began building Montgomery's insanity defense.

Lisa Montgomery has pleaded not guilty to kidnapping resulting in the death of Bobbie Joe Stinnett, 23. Her defense team admits she killed Stinnett and took the baby but says it will show Montgomery suffered from mental illnesses, including post-traumatic stress disorder brought on by abuse from her stepfather when she was a teenager.

Several of Montgomery's siblings and step-siblings testified that Montgomery's stepfather abused all of them. Shaughnessy testified about the sexual abuse but acknowledged she never filed a formal police complaint, in part because she said Kleiner had threatened her and the children.

Some of Montgomery's siblings and step-siblings described Kleiner as an alcoholic who often beat them, especially the girls, and said Shaughnessy did nothing to protect her daughters until she divorced him in 1985.

Shaughnessy's daughter, Patty Baldwin, testified that Kleiner would take her into a bathroom, make her pull down her pants and beat her with a belt. Becky Perkey, Montgomery's stepsister, said Kleiner used his fist on her and hit her with a telephone receiver. Teddy Kleiner said his father used a belt on all the children.

Kleiner, of Manhattan, Kan., was too ill to travel to Kansas City. In videotaped testimony, he denied having sex with Montgomery and said he could not remember ever physically abusing his daughters.

Shown a transcript of the divorce proceedings, during which he had admitted some physical abuse, Kleiner said he didn't have a good memory.

David Kidwell, Shaughnessy's nephew, testified that she had told him she believed Montgomery "had brought (the abuse) on herself, that she enticed him."

Pat Brunton, a former social worker for the state of Kansas who was involved in a custody dispute involving one of Shaughnessy's grandsons, also said Shaughnessy told her that Montgomery seduced Kleiner. She called Shaughnessy a manipulative, dishonest woman who pitted her children against each other so that she could be the center of attention.

Shaughnessy testified that her daughter faked several pregnancies since undergoing a tubal ligation after the birth of her fourth child in 1990.

When a man congratulated Shaughnessy on Dec. 17, 2004, for becoming a grandmother again, and said Montgomery had been showing off a new baby in her hometown of Melvern, Kan., Shaughnessy said her first reaction was "she either bought it or stole it."

Montgomery was arrested that evening, a day after Stinnett's killing, and the baby girl was returned to her father.

Shaughnessy cried on the witness stand, saying it upset her because she knew what it was like to be a mother.

"For Lisa to do something like that ... that was Bobbie Jo's first baby, Lisa just had no right to do that," she said.

Prosecutors have said they will seek the death penalty if Montgomery is convicted.

Besides convicting or acquitting her, jurors could find Montgomery not guilty by reason of insanity. If that is the verdict, she would undergo a mental evaluation and a judge would decide if she will be released or committed to a mental institution.

[keithle1]

Where do these women come from? You want a baby? We got loads of unwanted babies. Help yourself. Go on the Web & buy one.

Lisa is a real hottie.

[Krazcarl]

I''m not the sharpest tool in the shed what does her exhusbands abuse have to do with her butchering a woman all it proves is that she would do anything to keep a man even farm out her children all this does is prove the states case, She''s the devils spawn.

[slim1h2o]

You''d HAVE to be insane, to carry out such an insane and evil act.

What the *** wrong with people today?

[zootallures2]

Miss AmeriKKKa... Lisa Montgomery!

Freakin Janet Reno, Hillary Clinton, Laura Bush, and Condoleeza Rice, rolled into one women. I bet ole'' Micheal Chertoff will break her out of jail to make snuff movies if another natural disaster or false flg operation doesn''t happen soon.

[zootallures2]

***? Tie her to a poll and fire a missile at the ugly useless monstrocity.

[horse3farm]

Why waste time on a trial? How stupid. She did it. Take a knife and slice her open.

[likeitis5050]

Sooner or later we are going to have to come to terms with the reality that predators can not be judged like other offenders. They will site childhood trauma, abuse, poverty, discrimination, and any other ''reason'' for their predatory terror. Reasons are not excuses.

Millions of people grow up in similar, if not the same, environments and can relate experiences that, based on defenses of predators ''caught in the legal system'', should give them permission to go out and prey on defenseless and innocent people in society and walk away free as a bird simply because they were deprived, abused, neglected, etc. growing up. But truth is, millions do grow up in similar, in not the same, environments and go on to be productive and successful citizens in society.

We have got to get beyond giving predators an escape hatch called ''reasons'' when they finally have to account for their actions. There is no excuse for the brutal murder of anyone unprepared for an attack or assault...not insanity or abuse or neglect..nothing. Had Bobbi Jo been able to fight off this predator, Lisa would probably be back out on the streets looking for another unsuspecting victim right now. Predators like this need to be exterminated. Crazy? He11 yes she''s crazy and there is no law that can force her to take medication to keep her sane if she chooses not to take it. The stalking and murdering is planned and intentional...exterminate.

[zootallures2]

Lure "them" all to the Jerry Springer show and just kill them.

[michellem99-2009]

My Maine friend, she was fixed so she could not bear kids for some reason. I may not be a smart lady but yer don''t kill a lady and lift that unborn out that dead woman''s body and yell to high heavens yer crazy. She had to know what she was doing and my gress she had a helpper. The town sq. where all is to watch the hanging so the message is drove to the point. She lost her rights.

[cantshutup]

After my dad died when i was 5, his step-father DONALD PROCKUP of Medina Ohio molested and sexually assaulted me. My mother moved us to Missouri where she married a racist Fundamental Baptist Preacher named GALEN BARE, who attempted to molest me but when i fought him off, instead beat me with his belt and sticks and his fist every day. Once my mothers seemed surprised to see black and blue belt marks from the middle of my back to my calves...she kept me home from school for a week so no one would see them. I was raped when i was 14. I have been abused all my life and treated in the most worthless ways. I have never used my abuse as an excuse to harm anyone. I used to say to myself, that if I ever had children i would never hit them. I have a son, he''s a good boy and he''s never felt a belt or my hand. Time out and taking away priviledges worked just fine. People who use childhood abuse as an excuse are liars. You can make a choice to do evil or you can chose to do right and never harm anyone. I hope this sick freak is given the needle...what a horrible thing to do and completely inexcusable.

[libra127]

zootallures2: You are very sick. Please try to get some help or counseling.

[agnim]

"Insanity Defense In Stolen Fetus Case"

Now we know why ONLY WHITE PEOPLE are abducted by ''aliens'' and anally probed: Their minds and bizarre behaviors are not of this world. LOL

[whispyseas]

'' ... most disciplinary action goes to kids age 5 & less as they commit most crimes, though are most likely to suffer injury or death as a result of discipline ... ''

'' ... the lord sang scream my name & blame everyone but yourself, & dared kids sang scream our names & blame everyone but yourselfs ... ''

'' ... 300 hike naked dance dressed folk in 300 days to 300 weeks visiting up to 36 sick beds and 36 villages each night dancing get well feed world songs rallied around 100s millions sick beds drifting 10s millions spore bloom weed dragon trail fickle first aid lunch farm cottage studio trail crossing yseedsberry trail groups can assemble 90,000 little museums of medical you are here map song dance skit kit and still squeeze in up to 20 minutes each day of danceing porno get sick tax world songs ... ''

'' ... i threw grown men off backs of dragons to break all their bones, landing them in seaweeds that venomize them to keep them live for surgical recovery, it turned me on ... though they were all volunteers that enjoy that ... but everyone does it now and then, even grown men ... ''

'' ... one little naked girl on a newsdesk and the world is full of naked girls on newsdesks, one little armed dressed boy on a newsdesk, and the world is full of armed dressd boys on newsdesks ... ''

[Renegade.Rivers]

Since my return from Vietnam in 1971, I have had to deal with PTSD, so I do have experience with its affects. From what I have read and seen of the court proceeding, I question whether she really could even has PTSD and if that is even a legitimate defense. It seems to me that what this woman is guilty of is premeditated murder. She spent days and weeks, planning this out, she studied procedures for performing a Cesarean, she falsified documents, she lied to everyone including her family and friends in order to make sure the plan would work if she successfully carried it off. All of this took much thought and reason. I can tell you that when I was suffering at my peak with PTSD, the last thing that I could have done was use thought and reason like this woman did. The answers to why she did this, only she knows, but it was a well orchestrated attempt that she carried out in order to get the baby. Had she done it on a spur of the moment, in a rage, then perhaps I might consider it being caused by PTSD, but the way she planned it all out, and with the legwork she done, I don''t believe that it was PTSD. The problem that the defense in this case has is that there is no defense for premeditated murder, and the only possible hope for them to save the woman from a death sentence is to attempt some sort of insanity defense. In my opinion PTSD was not a good or plausible choice.

[grammawhamma]

I am sick of Insanity defenses. Just rename our prison system. Call them Correctional/Mental Health Care Institutions and then sentence the crimminals to due their time for the crime. Problem solved.

[jdubs63]

I also question PTSD.This lady planned this.Her eyes tell the story

[toolmangler-2009]

I love it when the defense lawyers have time to be inventive. Give them a little more time and they will prove she wasn''t even on Earth when the murder occurred.

[michellem99-2009]

That is what the town sq. was used years ago to hang them and they did. I DON''T CARE IF SHE IS MENTAL ILL ,I PANDER TO NO GROUP. We have babied persons like her too long as our prisom/jails are full. I ASKED MY FRIEND YER THINK I AM COLD AND HE SAID NO. There mental ill persons who would not dream of this as they are good citzens..She stoal an unborn child and killed a mum so why baby her asre. Gramma yer sick of it...ME AS WELL.

[toolmangler-2009]

Posted by cantshutup at 02:04 PM : Oct 13, 2007


Not ''all'' men are like that, anymore than all ''Blacks'' are like agnim. I was ''spanked'' never beaten (timeout would not have worked on me) and I am glad that I was corrected in a manner fitting to my personality at the time.

[michellem99-2009]

Tool,Dear,time out did not work for me and i had no idea of why time out..they were sighted and they had no idea of how to corrcet me. So they did all the wrong things. They just set me on the naughty step in the dark. No why so I sat there. It may sound dumb. I need more details...Sighted people. I am leglly blind. They could not relate to my world and I could not their sighted world..

[ladyephesus1]

Yeah, shes insane indeed. Only Charles Manson could have done something like this.

[mo005]

Its a shame for this women, but she took someone elses life and should be sentenced to the death penalty for this type of crime. If I remember corectly she took the baby while the girl was still alive. Yes she is crazy, so send her back to god and let him deal with this mistake.

Most of these comments don''t make any sense to me at all! I was beaten with belts, coat hangers, shoes, the heels of my boots but I have never abused another. I joined the Air Force and went into Law Enforcement, I worked as a police/fire dispatcher for 10 yrs after I got out of the Air Force. I don''t think that saying you were a victim of child abuse is a legitimate excuse to kill someone else and steal their infant. You act like a animal, you should be treated like one! How anyone could do something so barbaric is beyond me. The first case of it''s kind happened in Illinois not too far from me, they murdered the mother, stole the baby and also murdered her other two children. Their death penalty has been put on hold due to the former governor and a internal investigation finding that there were people on death row that were proven innocent once DNA testing was finally done. Makes me sick that the mother did not protect her children her her abusive husband and that they are using it as a excuse to justify her actions.

[michellem99-2009]

Some feel they can''t send her to death as they would feel they have blood on their paws if they do so. Well that female she does. Or they can''t kill a female if she gets death. Her peers did not kill her as asked for it when she did it. Kill over a baby not hers. I feel for the motherless child that the sad duty her father will have tell her when older.

[toolmangler-2009]

Posted by MichelleM99 at 06:52 PM : Oct 13, 2007


You are preaching to the choir when you talk about vision. I was stone blind at the age of two. (cataracts) Johns Hopkins butchered my eyes and I was still nearly blind till the age of five then another Baltimore Doctor, (Angus L. McLean) restored most of the vision in my left eye, the right was a lost cause. I am still blind in one eye, can''t see much out of the other but I get along and can still hit a thumbtack with a 22 cal rifle bullet at 75 feet. I also am able (if necessary) to get around very well even if totally blind, so I don''t sweat it. I just hate that you didn''t have good parents (foster or otherwise)

[michellem99-2009]

Tool. a nice gent yer are and for years could not see much born to early/so have one eye that has some sight. I told my friend babies are born with catracts well I had have that removed from my eye. at 37. The other eye the foster homes took it. I still have that eye as it is total. I wear glasses and use a magifier plus use a white cane/ and every thing that I could put in large print on computer is done.
I use to be against putting a person to death. Not now and this why have their asre sit in prisom living and they know they killed and they won''t learn and they live their live BE it locked up. They showed no mercy to that they killed and they should not shown mercy. They lost their rights as I see it.

[bnf2]

She will appear in court magically "cleaned up" and nicely "coiffed". She will have doses of tranquillizers and whatever else some psychologist (well-paid by the defense) chooses to dispense to her to facilitate, at the least,"pseudo-normalcy." She will lose and feel the needle because the citizens of the world know the difference between true insanity and this woman''s criminality and indifference to the rights of the pregnant woman to conceive, bear a child and LIVE to see the baby grow up. Instead, she was murdered, in cold blood, by a CRIMINAL (NOT an insane) woman who is really going to be lucky-the Romans would have crucified her (upside down), but she will only know the tiny prick of a needle. pba43

[incog-nito]

Doesn''t matter whether she''s mentally ill or not. She is obviously a threat to society and needs to be kept away from society. Murder is enough of a threat to be put away forever. Justice should be about protecting the innocent. Nothing personal.

[michellem99-2009]

tHEY WILL PAT HER ASRE,PUT HER IN A NICE CELL,MEET HER NEEDS, HAVE 3 MEALS A DAY,MEDICAL CARE BETTER THAN US, TREATED MORE HUMANELY ,PITY HER,LET HER GO AND GO..I am for the good and I am a kind person. Something is wrong when the killers getit better than us.

[crazydonna49]

THIS WOMAN HAS GOT TO BE CRAZY TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS. SHE NEEDS TO BE LOCKED UP FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE.

[slim1h2o]

For Lisa to do something like that ... that was Bobbie Jo''s first baby, Lisa just had no right to do that," she said.
...............................................................

OH!, as if somebody else had that right? Nobody, And I mean "NOBODY" has the right to do what you did, You''re scum!

[dgquast]

Put her in prison for life...execute her lawyer.

[wolfboi1970]

For Lisa to do something like that ... that was Bobbie Jo''''s first baby, Lisa just had no right to do that," she said.

SOOOOO...IF IT WAS HER 2ND CHILD ITS OK THEN??? SOUNDS LIKE MOMMY''S A COOKOO CLOCK TOO!!!

DEATH BY LETHAL INJECTION....AND THATS TOO NICE

[grapefruit67]

Ok, so she was abused when she was 16, spanked, quite possibly sexually abused, etc... I''m sorry, but many of us in that era were verbally abused, neglected and spanked, (often times with wooden spoons, hairbrushesand more often than not...a belt on our bare butts. My dad''s belt was 4in wide with a big buckle).

Statistics say that most women have been sexually abused at some point in their life (I was). The majority of us don''t, however, some 20 years later, feel that that abuse gives us the right to go out and cut a baby from her mother''s womb while claiming something that happened over 20 years ago drove us to that point. It''s ridiculous.

When you''re a child, sometimes very bad things happen to you. It happens, it sucks, but you DON''T let it make you who you end up being. The thing many people nowadays tend to forget is that we all have a CHOICE in what we do and how we live our lives. We alone are responsible for our actions and if we screw up, rather than blaming it on an incident that happened 20 yrs ago, we should be accountable and ADMIT that we screwed up and take the CONSEQUENCES for our actions.

To be continued...

[grapefruit67]

part 2...

This woman knew FULL WELL what she was doing, when she was doing it and I''m sorry but I refuse to accept the EXCUSE that she did it because her step-father''s treatment of her and her siblings over 20 years ago MADE her do it. That''s just assinine. Nobody can reach into your brain and pull some strings to make you do something...you alone are responsible for what you do. She needs to admit what she did, admit that she screwed up and accept the consequences for her actions. The End.

[billpl-2009]

Quote: "Several of Montgomery''s siblings and step-siblings testified that Montgomery''s stepfather abused all of them."

...fine let the daughter go and lock up the mother for allowing this all to happen.

somebody needs to pay for this murder

[grapefruit67]

Quote: "Somebody needs to pay for this murder"
---
Exactly! And the person who needs to pay for it needs to be the person who committed it: Lisa Montgomery. She alone is the responsible party, regardless of her mother''s LACK of mothering...regardless of the abuse. It''s her crime, she owns it, she should pay for it.

[gmond]

Her lawyer wouldn''t know the meaning of abuse if someone him in the head with a dictionary.

[michellem99-2009]

I was abused in the foster homes years ago and never ever dreamt of this..no way..sorry I am not buying in to it. Yer know right from wrong even if yer never went to church.

[jankebenz]

Romans 1:29 they have become filled with every kind of wickedness,evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder,strife,deciet, and malice

I can''t believe such a hideous act of killing and carving up somebody for their baby was humanly possible. The bible says that those who reject God ,will ultimately sink to the lowest forms of life

[michellem99-2009]

The bible is not allowed in most homes. I can''t read it.I have a limited reading level being legally blind and poorly schooled but I know yer don''t do this. This would have shocked me years ago. I asked how could a woman do it. She had to be fully sighted. It saddens me and others that this female had the gall to do this. She oaught pay for it even tho it won''t bring back the girl''s mother. That is bloody cold... Time to put the Allmighty back in this nation. I don''t attend church.

[michellem99-2009]

i did some digging about God and the us constution. I found it interesting..This nation is not a Christian nation..No where in the constution does it say God,Jesus,The Bible in its text..It has the word religion.

[michellem99-2009]

That woman had to have med traing or some thing to forgive my poor english remove an unborn baby by cutting out and killing the mother to be. Dang barbaric. She looks in the face as mean and cold. Don''t hold her paw.

[toldyouso21]

Why is this titled a "Stolen Fetus case" Even more heinous is "murdered mother to be with torn open belly..." Why title it as if the only thing is the stolen fetus--? This was the case of a woman being killed and her baby being cut out of her--they should just call it like it is.

[toldyouso21]

Well of course this woman is crazy. She is also evil. Why do we act like crazy people can''t plan things or methodically carry out crimes? Every serial killer can and without a doubt the carnage they do is crazy.
Then again, why do we think crazy people should be excused? The very fact that they are crazy should be grounds for deciding they should not be a part of society.

Why is it that we feel crazy people who kill could get sympathy? I have never understood this.When I was a kid, I asked my mom this very question. (the innocent by reason of insanity defense was really going strong then) my argument was: If the murderer is really crazy, then he will be so far removed from reality, that he will not know we killed him--so why do we hesitate? After all, if the killer is not in his right mind, he''ll never know what hit him/her. LOL

[toldyouso21]

use to be against putting a person to death. Not now and this why have their asre sit in prisom living and they know they killed and they won''''t learn and they live their live BE it locked up. They showed no mercy to that they killed and they should not shown mercy. They lost their rights as I see it.
Posted by MichelleM99 at 10:00 PM : Oct 13, 2007

You are absolutely right, Michelle. When people kill on purpose they lose their rights to society or any of the consideration that society gives people. One of those rights it to keep on living. It should be understood by all those who deliberately seek to kill others (as opposed to accidents that kill) if you seek to destroy life--then you should realize you automatically give up your claim to keep living too.

That is only right. The fact that some people are too scared or squeamish about the death penalty and that it takes too long, makes it easy for many people to kill with impunity. If people knew death was immediate, they might reconsider. One thing is for sure--dead people never go back out and hurt anyone else.

[toldyouso21]

"Several of Montgomery''s siblings and step-siblings testified that Montgomery''s stepfather abused all of them. Shaughnessy testified about the sexual abuse but acknowledged she never filed a formal police complaint, in part because she said Kleiner had threatened her and the children. "

MOST women who stay with men they KNOW are sexually abusing their kids--do so out of fear of being alone and losin the financial support. It has little to nothing to do with fearing physical retaliation from the man and usually has more to do with the woman being afraid of making it on her on with kids. Such a woman offers her kids up as sacrifice in order to keep her home life.

Either the woman turns a blind eye and refuses to acknowledge, accept or believe the rapes are occurring OR she blames the kids and believes they encouraged or seduced the man. Most find it almost impossible to accept that THEY failed to protect their kids and that they share heavily in the blame --especially when the abuse is repeated over and over again.

The story now, of the fear--is a cover for allowing it to continue and doing nothing. The real question is--in 1985 did she divorce him or did he just get rid of her? What was the breaking point? It certainly was not seeing her daughter being raped/fvcked by her husband.

[Krazcarl]

toldyouso21...I agree on this one had a lady was raprd by her dad for 8 years several times a week and the mother claims she never knew he also abused other faimly members is in prison I asked her what she thought she said how could she not have known. She is a lovely lady and incapale of hurting anyone other than poor choices yes there was damage. It may have made it easier but is not the reason. The wierd thing is mom will blow in and play the mother of the year.

[akpals]

So, Ok she was abused. Ok fine she''s nuts. Do the lawyers she has honestly believe that should make her a free woman. How many abused kids could go around killing people everyday then? I honestly feel sorry for the guy who has to defend this woman.
I pray the jury doesn''t have to deliberate long before coming back with a Guilty, Gas Her decision.

[candy-apple]

Excuses! Excuses! Excuses! Sound like the majority of those on this board are just as tired of hearing them as the rest of the world. As some others here, I was also sexually abused as a child but that does not give me an excuse to do the same to children. The past is no excuse for actions of today.

TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS AND QUIT BLAMING EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING ELSE AROUND YOU!!!