Sparks Fly In Thompson's Debate Debut

Romney, Giuliani Battle Over Tax And Spending Cuts During GOP Debate In Michigan

(CBS/AP)  Republican presidential hopefuls Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani clashed over tax and spending cuts Tuesday, each claiming greater commitment than the other in a debate in the nation's struggling manufacturing heartland.

The government "is spending money of future generations and those yet to be born," added Fred Thompson, making his debate debut after a late entry into the race. He said future retirees should receive smaller Social Security benefits than they have been promised.

Thompson played it safe while Giuliani and Romney argued over taxes, reports CBS News correspondent Nancy Cordes.

"With all eyes on Thompson, he performed about as he has throughout the campaign thus far - marginally well but not particularly jumping off the charts," wrote CBSNews.com senior political editor Vaughn Ververs in Horserace.

After months of polite debate sparring, Giuliani and Romney squared off without hesitation, a reflection of their struggle for primacy in the race for their party's presidential nomination.

"I cut taxes 23 times. I believe in tax cuts," said Giuliani, former mayor of New York and leader in national Republican polls.

Romney in turn criticized his rival for once filing a court challenge to a law that gave President Clinton the right to veto spending items line by line. "I'm in favor of the line item veto," he said, adding he exercised it 844 times while governor of Massachusetts.

Romney also said that while mayor, Giuliani "fought to keep the commuter tax, which is a very substantial tax ... on consumers coming into New York."

The former governor leads his rivals in the polls in Iowa, where caucuses will be the first contest of the campaign, and he and Giuliani are in a close race in surveys in New Hampshire, the leadoff primary state.

Giuliani responded that spending fell in New York while he was mayor, and rose in Massachusetts while Romney was governor.

"The point is that you've got to control taxes. I did it, he didn't. ... I led, he lagged."

"It's all baloney," retorted Romney. "I did not increase taxes in Massachusetts. I lowered taxes."

The clash was among the most heated of the campaign for the Republican presidential nomination, reflecting a quickening pace as the 2008 caucuses and primaries draw close.

It also left Thompson and the other contenders as something of bystanders for the several moments that Romney and Giuliani went at one another.

All nine of the men on stage sought to stress their conservative economic credentials throughout the two-hour debate, held in the city that gave birth to the Ford Motor Co. more than a century ago.

Sen. John McCain of Arizona said President Bush was right to veto a children's health expansion bill, and he urged him to reject a multibillion-dollar public works measure as well.

"We've got to get wasteful spending under control," he said.

[dutchfarmer]

Nixon may have been right about Thompson being dumb, but I''ve never met the guy. Most Hollywood actors aren''t the brightest light in the harbor. Most of the actresses'' lights have been blown out. The most knowledgeable of the Republican candidates is Ron Paul. Vote Ron Paul for the Republican nominee.

[condumism]

A quote from Mormon Mitt Romney: "GW Bush brought dignity and personal integrity back to the White House after the unfortunate series of events during the Clinton years."

[jack3213]

Dutchfarm: You are taking Nixons word as truth? As for Fred_ I say, he is the best candidate to beat Clinton..and so many are just plain afraid of that. Too bad, that is the truth.

[hwy71so]

Come on Hunter, show us your stuff...

[missingamerica]

"It''s likely to be used by the nine candidates to push their own ideas for economic growth".

Let me guess: Cut the taxes on America''s wealthiest 10 percent, and their tax savings will "trickle down" to the rest of America.

To help ensure the success of that effort, enter into more "free trade" agreements so that more manufacturing and service jobs will go off-shore, thus increasing the income of America''s wealthiest 10 percent, thus providing even more money to "trickle down".

[walt1944-2009]

The umpteenth (whose counting?) Republican debate in Michigan tonight is supposed to be about the economy and where the Republicans are saying the country is heading (in their view) and where the country is really heading.

It''s interesting to note that of the candidates, not one of them is advocating bringing jobs back to the USSA, doing something about high prices and corporate greed, and revitalizing the shrinking middle class. It will be the same old song of cut taxes (for the elite), shrink government (and to devil with the country''s infrastructure), sell off the instructure (to the Chinese or big oil sultans), and run what is left of government like a corporation (like Enron and Worldcom!).

How is this going to help a family afford a $4 loaf of bread or $5 gallon of milk?

LONG LIVE REPUBLICAN ECONOMICS!!!

SIG HEIL, BUSH!!!

[usayesterday]

A GOP economic debate basically involves how many times a candidate can say the phrase: "tax cuts" or "cutting taxes"

Cutting certain, such as the dividend tax and the capital gains tax, mearly grows the economy for the wealthier Americans. And the attempt to get rid of the estate tax, (that would cost around $800 billion dollars)?! Those kinds of tax cuts does little good for the other 95% of Americans!

Help Americans pay for their health care, college education, force companies to keep jobs in America, and ensure a stable social security and that''s how you help improve an economy.

[geezer62]

walt 1944
well said!

[geezer62]

dutchfarmer

Just curious....Exactly how many Hollywood actors and actresses are you personally acquainted with? You seem to have an inside track there and I would like to hear more. I''m assuming that since you say you have never met Mr. Thompson and therefore aren''t sure about him, you have met most other Hollywood actors and know that they aren''t "the brightest lights in the harbor".

[gkc99]

And the big theme of the debate: GEORGE WHO?

[adventurepa]

The republicans are a dieing breed. Ron Paul is the only non-neo-con of the bunch. With all the law breaking and corruption in the Republican party they don''t have a chance to beat the Dems in 2008.

[bareemperor]

The Economy?

The GOP cares?

Wasted air - there won''t be another Repuglickken president for forty MORE years...

[marcodele]

It will be a much different debate with Thompson up there. You''ll see paramedics waiting in the wings.

[condumism]

Thompson, a career lobbyist, represents everything that is wrong with Washington. Hes the corporations and special interests wet dream. If you like Bush, youll just love Thompson. If you like government by the corporation, of the corporation and for the special interests, hes your man. Hes a multinational corporation posing as a human being.

How convenient that when america notices what a sorry lot the GOP candidates are some other fake actor ronald reagan wanna be comes in with so much media favor to take the reins as the official banana republicon candidate for empire and national decline...

[roger_inkart]

If this nation is stupid enough to elect another dim-witted GOP dullard then, alas, we will only be getting what we deserve. Unfortunately, so will the rest of the world.

Hate America? Then vote GOP! No one organization has done more to inflict misery, division, chaos and damage on the US then they have. A month of 9/11s couldn''t equal what the Bush administration has done to America.

[gwagener]

All you have to remember about Thompson is Fred = dead, literally.
Fred Thompson has Non-Hodgkin''s Lymphoma. That is a disqualifier. It''s not even close to a gray area. He has less

than a 50% chance of living until 2013. My mother died of Non-Hodgkin''s Lymphoma, so I know what I''m talking about.

http://www.lymphomation.org/statistics.htm

Giuliani had prostate cancer. McCain had skin cancer. I say HAD (past tense) because a cancer you can cut out or

irradiate can be gone. Not so with blood cancers. Thompson HAS cancer. His cancer is in remission, but could come

back at any time.

[sftodd]

Wow, Ron Paul actually is a true conservative, unlike the rest of the fascist that have taken over the repuglican party. Too bad, he doesn''t stand a chance, check out his closing comments at the Value Voters Debate and you''ll see what an honest conservative has to say. He''s not as crazy as I once thought.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6420088762110480414&q=ron+paul&total=10250&start=40&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

[roger_inkart]

Hey SF Todd, may I suggest you make use of tinyurl.com? Very few people are going to take them time to copy and paste four lines of text.

Todd''s link:

http://tinyurl.com/2jvadm

[katg21]

All you have to remember about Thompson is Fred = dead, literally.
Posted by gwagener at 04:30 PM : Oct 09, 2007

A glass is half empty kind of person, huh? I now think I''ve heard it all.

[katg21]

Hate America? Then vote GOP! No one organization has done more to inflict misery, division, chaos and damage on the US then they have. A month of 9/11s couldn''''t equal what the Bush administration has done to America.
Posted by roger_inkart at 04:17 PM : Oct 09, 2007

What a load of ***. I am so sick of you idiot lefty wackos, it''s unfortunate there are so many of you.

[vastr-wcon]

Nobody has better summed-up Fred Thompson than his fellow Repug TrickDick, who called Fred "dumb as hell", even while this good ol'' boy ********* was betraying Congress and his fellow Senators by passing confidential Senate impeachment information to Tricky.

Fred has spent 20 years of his career as the ultimate Washington insider -- a lobbyist -- working for an abortion-rights group (the National Family Planning and Reproductive Health Association) and some of the sleaziest companies and people in the world (Haiti''s Aristide and the Libyan bombers of Pan AM Flight 103 that blew-up over Lockerbie, for example). Moreover, when Thompson married his first wife, Sarah Lindsey, in 1959, she was already two months pregnant with their first child. In her original divorce writ against Thompson, she accused him of "cruel and inhuman treatment", proving that Fred is just another Repug "Family Values" guy! This and his past betrayals of trust make him a PERFECT candidate for the nomination of the Gross Old Pervert party. Perhaps he can get toe-tapping, Lusty Larry to be his running mate - just to give his candidacy more class than it has now.

[marcodele]

"when Thompson married his first wife, Sarah Lindsey, in 1959..."

I thought his first wife was named Jane, and he married her in 1906.

[roger_inkart]

I am so sick of you idiot lefty wackos, it''s unfortunate there are so many of you.

Posted by katg21 at 04:49 PM : Oct 09, 2007

Well, thanks in large part to the insane and destructive policies of the Bush adminstration and the corrupt GOP enablers we can expect there to be many more ''leftys.'' Perhaps even a whole generation of them rebeling against the madness of the right-wing and it''s moronic and hate-filled idealogy.

[jamurphy4]

Ok folks, are you ready?? Lights, Camera, Action!! Wait a minute..Somebody wake up Fred.. Ok, Lets try that again with the stand in.. Bring in Brad Pitt. Let''s start over. Are you awake Fred??

[nolalou]

SFTodd, Sorry, but Ron Paul is even crazier than I realized. Here''s an excerpt from a fund raising letter he recently sent out.
"I don''t need to tell you that our American way of life is under attack. We see it all around us -- every day -- and it is up to us to save it.

The world''s elites are busy forming a North American Union. If they are successful, as they were in forming the European Union, the good ''ol USA will only be a memory. We can''t let that happen.

The UN also wants to confiscate our firearms and impose a global tax. The UN elites want to control the world''s oceans with the Law of the Sea Treaty. And they want to use our military to police the world."

Where does he get that c-rap? Either he really believes it, which proves how nuts he is, or he''s just saying it to get money from fringe conspiracy groups, which means I can''t trust him!

[roger_inkart]

I thought his first wife was named Jane, and he married her in 1906.

Posted by marcodele at 04:52 PM : Oct 09, 2007

Tshh...don''t be absurd. We all know it was in 1911.

[sparks224]

GOP Debate: All Eyes On Thompson

Why?
There''s nobody there.
There''s nobody home.

[katg21]

Perhaps even a whole generation of them rebeling against the madness of the right-wing and it''''s moronic and hate-filled idealogy.
Posted by roger_inkart at 04:54 PM : Oct 09, 2007

Laughable. I think rational people see what the Democratic party is really all about and aren''t buying into the nonsense.

[marcodele]

"I am so sick of you idiot lefty wackos, it''''s unfortunate there are so many of you."

Yes, I think it is Lefty Wackos 50.0037%, and Right Wing Neocon Nutjob Hypocrites 49.0063%.

[prinzowhales]

nolalou--If it were ''c*ap'' he would have opened up your head and scooped it out...You have to have been asleep not to have heard the discussion of the various energy taxes. Ronald Reagan vetoed the Law of the Seas Treaty for precisely that reason--now its supporters say they have worked out the kinks...hardly. If you heard Vincente Fox on CNN last eve, you would have heard it from the horses mouth about the North American Union and currency changes that Bush and Fox wanted...information on this is readily available. The UN''s position on private firearms is longstanding...and, our armed are being used as the "world''s policeman"...only its not for the sake of any ''hands around the world touchy feel-ly nonsense--its for the sake of the Corporatists who run the UN...Read a book for God''s sake...something by Jerome Corsey, THE LATE, GREAT USA, for instance...or, check out WORLD NET DAILY or INFOWARS.COM...these guys deal in source documents and citations.

RON PAUL IN 2008!

[marcodele]

I hope they place Fred Thompson next to Mitt Romney.
It will look like a Shar Pei next to a Yorshire Terrier.

[katg21]

Yes, I think it is Lefty Wackos 50.0037%, and Right Wing Neocon Nutjob Hypocrites 49.0063%.
Posted by marcodele at 05:12 PM : Oct 09, 2007

What you "think" doesn''t matter.

[sharncedar]

How many wives must a Republican have?
Is two enough, or is three?
How many times must hey cheat and have affairs,
In order to be considered nominee?

The answer, my toe-tapping friend,
is blowing in the john,
the answer is blowing in the john.

[sftodd]

Where does [Ron Paul] get that c-rap? Either he really believes it, which proves how nuts he is, or he''''s just saying it to get money from fringe conspiracy groups, which means I can''''t trust him!
Posted by nolalou at 04:56 PM : Oct 09, 2007

My sense is that Ron Paul, like most politicians, is exaggerating. However, unlike Republican politicians, it seems that his exaggerations at least have a true factual basis, which sets him miles apart from the rest of the scumbags in his party. I respect him for that.

[roger_inkart]

I think rational people see what the Democratic party is really all about and aren''t buying into the nonsense.

Posted by katg21 at 05:10 PM : Oct 09, 2007

So, are you calling the voters last year - who gave BOTH houses on congress to Democrats irrational then?

Your party is fragmenting. The indepedents and moderates that were critical to the GOP''s success are GONE. Don''t talk to me about what is ''rational.'' If, after the last 12 years of GOP lunacy, you still support this party then you clearly have no clue as what the word even means.

[toldyouso21]

I think that the new "N" word of the 21st century may well be the word: "Republican" they are turning their party into Pariah fodder.

[irishmail42]

After watching about 20 mins. of the debate I turned my TV off. Without a script Fred Thompson a blank page.

[jack3213]

The fact of the matter is, the stronger of the two can make a differance, and it isn''t about the fact they are Republican. If you think the Democrats have done anything you live on a differant planet. They will raise taxes and bankcrupt the country. Nothing is perfect, my friends, but you must accept the obvious truth, no man wants to drown in freedom.

[toldyouso21]

Okay. I admit it. Sometimes, when I have road rage, or someone really gets on my nerves or I see someone acting really sleazy or evil, or corrupt. I do mutter the epithet "Republican" under my breath. I try not to--because my kids are picking up that bad habit. I overheard my daughter call one of our dogs "Republican" after he tore up some papers in our car. I told her --I would not tolerate her cussing and threatened to wash her mouth out with soap if she did not stop.

Of course she wanted to know why I could call people "Republican" but she couldn''t. It was one of those moments, when you really have to remember that you set an example of younger minds. I am trying to progress to the more benign expressions of "beeyatch or basttttard--or even motherfvcker

[roger_inkart]

Way to go Fred! Another clunker. You''re just lighting the crowd up. (Geez...did he drink a bunch of Nyquil before the debate?)

Oh, but I do hope he gets the GOP nomination. He''ll get roasted like Dole did in ''96.

[usayesterday]

I think rational people see what the Democratic party is really all about and aren''''t buying into the nonsense.

Posted by katg21 at 05:10 PM : Oct 09, 2007
................

So, katg21...

...please list all of the "rational" things that the GOP has done from 2000 to 2006...

...I look forward to your response.

[drummer94]

They can rant and rave and debate and give all their dough to the media in ads. Doesn''t matter. The republicans are done like dinner. Maybe if they change their ways, we''ll see ''em again-in about 12 years. lol

[toldyouso21]

Nothing is perfect, my friends, but you must accept the obvious truth, no man wants to drown in freedom.


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Posted by Jack3213 at 05:35 PM : Oct 09, 2007


Precisely--but if most of us have to choose between a bankrupt country or a police state that does not mind drowing other countries for "freedom", torturing, wiretapping, stacking the courts and the DOJ, outing agents, lying to start wars or other crazy 1984 *** Naziesque crappollla.... you may be surprised that most of us do not want to be evil, corrupt, greedy torture lovers.

Or...at least 68% of us don''t. Which means we need to just say no to anything Republican.

[toldyouso21]

Voting for a Dem is no different than voting for a Repub.

They are both equally corrupt.

Anyone who is going to vote for a Dem or Repub should do the world a favor and stay home.


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Posted by tuckerndfw at 05:44 PM : Oct 09, 2007


You are partially correct. They both will lie and steal from us--but only one would get off on imprisoning, torturing and killing us to boot.

[speakinup]

"They can rant and rave and debate and give all their dough to the media in ads. Doesn''t matter. The republicans are done like dinner. Maybe if they change their ways, we''ll see ''em again-in about 12 years. lol Posted by drummer94

Note the meaningful content of this typical liberal''s post. Nothing but hot air - just like Hillary''s platform.

[roger_inkart]

Mitt Romney is an idiot. Plain and simple.

Giuliani bashing Democrats every single time he speaks is wearing a little thin. He is an a$$.

Thompson looks half dead. And McCain is saying the nation has faced ''some pretty good blows.'' What?

You go Ron Paul! You are the ONLY moderately sane one on the stage right now. Everyone else are just morons, political ****** or idiots. Some are all three.

[drummer94]

speakinup: and you are a typical con. Blinders on till the end. lol

[donbl1]

Just as the Demos mantra has been tax the rich the Repubs seem to think their mantra should be "control the free wheeling spending".

These are not chance mantras but well developed through numerous focus groups and marketing analysis.

I am against more taxes for very personal reasons...... so, I "guess" I am for curtailing spending.....

[toldyouso21]

They can rant and rave and debate and give all their dough to the media in ads. Doesn''''t matter. The republicans are done like dinner. Maybe if they change their ways, we''''ll see ''''em again-in about 12 years. lol Posted by drummer94

Note the meaningful content of this typical liberal''''s post. Nothing but hot air - just like Hillary''''s platform.




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Posted by speakinup at 05:50 PM : Oct 09, 2007


And yet the repartee of the Republicans is so "innovative" , "new" "forward thinking" and "refreshing."... NOT

It is like, after 7 years of Bush squatting and ********** on the American public--the GOP candidates, dare to scoop all the turds back out of the toilet and serve it up on the platter yelling "Dinner''s served"

If everyone is really sick of Bush (or if most of us are--and I am an Independent) then we certainly don''t want 4 more years of Bush repackaged in little Bushette GOP candidates.

[roger_inkart]

Man, what a bunch of dopes! I''m no fan of the dem candidates, but at least a few of them have a head on their shoulders. These guys, save for perhaps Huckabee and Paul (and perhaps McCain of eight years ago) are all hopeless.

Giuliani, shut up about Democrats already! The nation voted them to control congress last year, so perhaps you need to look inwards with your criticism first. It''s going to turn a lot of people off.