Turkey, White House Fight Genocide Label

Top Officials Try To Stop Congressional Resolution Calling WWI-Era Killings Of Armenians Genocide

(AP)  Turkish and American officials have been pressing lawmakers to reject a measure next week that would declare the World War I-era killings of Armenians a genocide.

On Friday, the issue reached the highest levels as President Bush and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan talked by telephone about their opposition to the legislation, which is to go before the House Foreign Affairs Committee on Wednesday.

The dispute involves the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Armenians during the waning years of the Ottoman Empire.

Armenian advocates, backed by many historians, contend the Armenians died in an organized genocide. The Turks say the Armenians were victims of widespread chaos and governmental breakdown as the 600-year-old empire collapsed in the years before Turkey was born in 1923.

Armenian supporters of the congressional measure, who seem to have enough votes to get approval by both the committee and the full House, have also been mustering a grass-roots campaign among the large diaspora community in the United States to make sure that a successful committee vote leads to consideration by the full House.

One interest group, the Armenian National Committee of America, has engaged about 100,000 supporters to call lawmakers about the issue, according to Executive Director Aram Hamparian.

Similar measures have been debated in Congress for decades. But well-organized Armenian groups have repeatedly been thwarted by concerns about damaging relations with Turkey, an important NATO ally that has made its opposition clear.

Lawmakers say that this time, the belief that the resolution has a chance to pass a vote by the full House has both Turkey and Armenian groups pulling out all stops to influence the members of the committee.

"The lobbying has been the most intense that I have ever seen it," said the bill's sponsor, Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif.

Though the largely symbolic measure would have no binding effect on U.S. foreign policy, it could nonetheless damage an already strained relationship with Turkey.

After France voted last year to make denial of Armenian genocide a crime, the Turkish government ended military ties.

Many in the U.S. fear that a public backlash in Turkey could lead to restrictions on crucial supply routes through Turkey to Iraq and Afghanistan and the closure of Incirlik, a strategic air base in Turkey used by the United States. Lawmakers have been hearing arguments from both sides about those concerns.

The Turkish government has been holding back from public threats while making clear that there will be consequences if the resolution is passed.

"There will be a backlash and no government can be indifferent to that," says the Turkish ambassador in Washington, Nabi Sensoy.

But Armenian groups charge that behind the scenes, Turkey has been much more clear.

"Turkey has been threatening every sort of doomsday scenario," says Hamparian. "We have been saying that Turkey would harm itself more than the United States if it carries through with these threats."

Turkey argues that the House is the wrong institution to arbitrate a sensitive historical dispute. It has proposed that an international commission of experts examine Armenian and Turkish archives.

In the meantime, the Turkish embassy has been in close contact with lawmakers and is using prominent U.S. lobbyists.

"I have redoubled my efforts," says Sensoy. Turkish lawmakers have also been manning the phones to congressional offices.

According to one congressional aide, Turkey's military chief, Gen. Yasar Buyukanit, has been calling lawmakers to argue that a vote will boost support for Islamists in Turkey. The aide spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

The Bush administration has been telling lawmakers that the resolution, if passed, would harm U.S. security interests.

Gordon Johndroe, a White House spokesman, said Friday that Mr. Bush believes the Armenian episode ranks among the greatest tragedies of the 20th century, but the determination whether "the events constitute a genocide should be a matter for historical inquiry, not legislation."

White House staff have also spoken with aides to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., in the hope that she will stop the measure from coming to a vote.

"The administration has reached out to the speaker's office and made our position clear," he said. "We'll see what happens."

By Associated Press Writer Desmond Butler

[snoble_2000]

Alphaa10 demonstrates when you have no point to make you just spit at the air. You sound like an expert on nothing. The Lawrence story is so full of holes as recently found it is not funny example is how he claimed he was raped by a Turkish commander which was a story concocted by him to cover for his being a homosexual. "Ask anybody but a Turk what the Ottoman Empire was like", here you were pretty pathetic but not as pathetic as mentioning Hitler and the fabricated quote, which was never proven. "As Turkey campaigns for partnership with the EU and US", are you up on the news? There is fear that the partnership between the US and Turkey will fall apart, did you read this article or is your racist Hellenistic mentality controlling you. You are Greek and that is clear by the username Alhaa10 so we know where your heart is.

[thetruth1001]

To "snoble" you speak like a true uninformed genocide denier, The only one who seems desperate is you!

1. Most ALL historians today, including 21 countries officially honor the Armenian Genocide. The Armenian Genocide is well documented and includes thousands of pages in our own U.S. archives and countless eyewitnesses of the systematic extermination of the Armenian population.
2. Henry Morganthou, the American Ambassador to Turkey, who clearly saw and he himself documented the Armenian Genocide, was a Jew not a protestant.
3. The Turks did not live there for thousands of years. They decended from the asian foothills in 1070 a.d.
4. It was in Constantinople that on April 24, 1915 the Turks rounded up 250 Armenian community leaders and murdered all of them. That started the "Armenian cleansing" that eventually took 1.5 million Armenian lives. No town was sprared.
5. It was a crime to help save any Armenians as it is a crime today in Turkey if one speakes of the Armenian Genocide.

Try reading a history book outside of Turkey.

[alphaa10-2009]

snoble2000 demonstrates there are always people who want to deny a genocide. Particularly when it is an acute embarrassment.

Turkey today is a state in close pursuit of a modern standard of living and quality of life for its peoples. Yet, in many ways, its politics bears traces of the ugly and sordid past once called the Ottoman Empire.

That empire was hated for its cruelty, brutality and corruption, factors which helped eventually bring about its collapse, and revolt of subject peoples.

Ask anybody but a Turk what the Ottoman empire was like, and you will be told why the Turks were so hated that Lawrence and his Arabs took no prisoners when they attacked Turkish positions.

As Turkey campaigns for partnership with the EU and US, old graves must be opened, and the truth told about its past. Perhaps Turkey will learn from tyrants of the past like Japan-- which still refuses to apologize for some of its war crimes.

[alphaa10-2009]

Adolf Hitler, himself, quietly noted the world did nothing when millions of Greeks and Armenians were starved, shot and driven en masse withhout food or water to their deaths. The stories are horrific, and photos were taken in many instances.

Not-so-Great Britain, liberator of the MidEast from Turkey and creator of Iraq and other post-WW1 half-measures, stood by and did nothing.

What happened to truth as the operative political principle? Bush acknowledges millions of Greek and Armenian dead. He notes an ethnic cleansing which showed Hitler how to handle the "Jewish problem", but cannot bring himself to call it genocide? Is this the same bozo who likes to call Darfur a genocide?

[snoble_2000]

Frances business with Turkey decline sharply so do not fall for that. France would be happy to see relations collapse between Turkey and the US. France is already trying to show up America if you remember it recently acted tuff on Iran making the US look secondary.

[snoble_2000]

When President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran visited an Armenian shrine to the so-called genocide both Armenians and Greeks were ecstatic with the news even though this was the man who called the Holocaust a myth. The Holocaust, which has heaps of evidence and Germans galore admitting to it, was considered a myth by the president of Iran. Now talk about getting desperate. Father Eugene Papas of the Greek American Radio program in New York known as Aktina FM released this news. Desperation can get pretty ugly. Check on the priests name but the news was definitely from them as it was shocking to hear.

[snoble_2000]

Notice as I said how Greeks who had no part of the I was a victim of genocide years back now are a part of the inflated lie. The movie Ararat is a perfect example because the put a greater swell to their story they added that machines were built to torture and Kill Armenians. Stay tuned as the story gets more elaborate. If there ever was a genocide it is the genocide of truth waged by the Armenians and Greeks and it is a sad and ugly one which appeals to the ignorant.

[snoble_2000]

Armenians, Greeks and Jews of the Ottoman era were far richer and had better jobs than their fellow turkish citizens. Today an Armenian group seeked support of the Jewish community by saying don''t forget the wealth tax you paid under Ottoman rule, sad recruiting tactic. I would like to remind people that the Turks lived in that region for thousands of years along with the Arabs,Armenians and Kurds contradicting that image painted as Armenian only. Prior to 9-11 one of the other groups to carry out terrorism in Armerica was an Armenian terror group. All my information is available on the web if you just search for it.

[snoble_2000]

The amount of photographic proof the Armnians put forward is far less than that of a standard deck of playing cards and even that is filled with charcoal drawings being passed off as black and white photos. Armenians claim all non-muslims were victims yet neither the jewish or Greek citizen(Greeks recently have been saying oh yeah we too were victims but that is a part of their new found cyprus tactic)of that period claimed any targeting by ethnicity had taken place. Recently when members of the British parliament were asked if it were possible for a bill claiming a genocide could pass in the British parliament the answer was no because there is no evidence of a genocide(Britain was also a part of the war). Out east during 1915 there was a mass deportation of Armenians from the war zone while the large population of Armenians in then constantinople were not relocated and remained there. America did far worse when it placed Japenese Americans in camps when at war with Japan.

[snoble_2000]

Henry Morganthau who is widely mentioned as the heaviest proof that there was a genocide was a protestant involved in the missionary movement trying and failing to convert Ottoman muslims to Christianity. If one looks over Morgenthaus letters one will find it full of racist remarks. The other never mentioned side of the story is the Armenian Fedayi which was a heavily armed guerilla army numbering in the hundreds of thousands. If you search for the Armenian Fedayi you will find pictures of them posing heavily armed and proud of it and not like the innoccent beings they try to portray after their loss. The Armenian Fedayi were armed far better than their Turkish counter parts which is the funny part of this smear campaign.

[snoble_2000]

There is no proof of a genocide but hearsay and all the historians backing the Armenian claim are out numbered by real historians knowing the topic and say there was no such thing as a genocide. What occured was a loss of life on all sides in a war. A war where Turkey was fighting five countries and the Armenians decided they were going to take a piece of the country with the aid of Russia(Who later duped them). France which was part of that war did not claim any such genocide occured until 85 years later when Armenian lobbies became an influential part of the campaign support.

[sgtrds]

The Turks slaughtered tens of thousands Armenian civilians. It is all documented, how can the U.S deny it. It is genocide...Let it be known to the world loudly..

Posted by ndjam at 08:22 PM : Oct 06, 2007

It is genocide and Bush knows it, but he''s afraid that calling it so will anger the Turks, one of the very few remaining of his coalition of the bought and paid for in his debacle in Iraq.

[alphaa10-2009]

Adolf Hitler, himself, quietly noted the world did nothing when millions of Greeks and Armenians were starved, shot and driven en masse withhout food or water to their deaths. The stories are horrific, and photos were taken in many instances.

Not-so-Great Britain, liberator of the MidEast from Turkey and creator of Iraq and other post-WW1 half-measures, stood by and did nothing.

What happened to truth as the operative political principle? Bush acknowledges millions of Greek and Armenian dead. He notes an ethnic cleansing which showed Hitler how to handle the "Jewish problem", but cannot bring himself to call it genocide? Is this the same bozo who likes to call Darfur a genocide?

[ndjam]

The Turks slaughtered tens of thousands Armenian civilians. It is all documented, how can the U.S deny it. It is genocide...Let it be known to the world loudly..

[namikkemal-2009]

Finally one last word is that any Political decision on the Senate floor may result in backlash reactions and short sighted American Politicians not Turks should not be blamed for such consequences..You still wonder why the population in Armenia is really suffering because some profit hungry minority groups is pushing the HATE envelope in Boston and Los Angeles while drinking Georgia wine, eat Russian caviar, heating on Azeri oil and collecting profits in Turkish stock market.
Time to wake up and look into the world thru rational facts not Emotional Lies

[namikkemal-2009]

deartruth101..repeating a Lie 1000 times does not "Prove" anything...

Turks DO NOT deny the Dead Armenians.

But all sensible Turks and World citizens like DO DENY
*)the events always presented on one sided bias attitude
*)the fact that opposition never accept the "Dead Muslims" of the same time frame who lost their lives for the same reason
*)the unfair cries of the armed militant Armenian descendants who tried to betray their own land and lost the Revolting struggle.
*)the exaggerated dead Armenian population exceeds the actual 1912 census numbers! even though several hundred thousand Armenians did travel abroad alive!
*)the fact of NO legal decision exercise has even been tried in any international legal system (???) but cheap-shot quick resolutions on the Senate floors.(Where is the PROOF)
*)the fact that this Historical argument will not be discussed fairly by the Armenian scholars around the world with open achieves and documents(re photo-shoped documents do not reflect the truth

[thetruth1001]

The Armenian Genocide is a proven fact. The International Association of Genocid Scholars, the worlds foremost independent experts on genocide unanimously deem the Armenian Genocide as an "undeniable fact". It has been studied over and over again. The only ones who deny this are the Turks and a few paid historians. In 1915 the Turks systematically murdered 1.5 million Armenian men women and children and today do not acknowledge it let alone be remorseful or offer an opology. It is way overdue to recognize it for what it is, GENOCIDE. Remember those who deny genocide help perpetrate genocide. That includes this administeration who is afraid to offend Turkey, a genocidal perteptrating so-called "ally".

[slipster01]

As soon as we start letting politicians determine what is or isn''t history, we''ve doomed ourselves.

This is not an issue for US Politicians to determine. They are not qualified, and most are in the pockets of lobbyists and special interest groups.

They can''t be trusted to write history.

[slipster01]

As soon as we start letting politicians determine what is or isn''t history, we''ve doomed ourselves.

This is not an issue for US Politicians to determine. They are not qualified, and most are in the pockets of lobbyists and special interest groups.

They can''t be trusted to write history.

[slipster01]

As soon as we start letting politicians determine what is or isn''t history, we''ve doomed ourselves.

This is not an issue for US Politicians to determine. They are not qualified, and most are in the pockets of lobbyists and special interest groups.

They can''t be trusted to write history.