Clinton Calls For Universal Health Care

Plan Requires Every American To Have Insurance, With Assistance To Help Defray Cost

(CBS/AP)  Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton issued a call for universal health care on Monday, plunging back into a political battle she memorably waged and lost as first lady more than a decade ago.

"This is not government-run," Clinton said of her plan to extend coverage to an estimated 47 million Americans who now go without.

All Americans would be required to purchase health insurance, reports CBS News chief White House correspondent Jim Axelrod.

Businesses would have to offer insurance to employees or pay into a pool for the uninsured, and no insurance company could refuse anyone coverage because of pre-existing conditions, adds Axelrod.

Clinton would also offer a tax subsidy to small businesses to help them afford the cost of providing coverage to their workers.

She put the government's cost at $110 billion a year.

"Perhaps more than anybody else I know just how hard this fight will be," said the New York senator.

Dismissing the inevitable Republican criticism, Clinton admonished the crowd. "I know my Republican opponents will try to equate health care for all Americans with government-run health care. Don't let them fool us again. This is not government-run."

A front-running contender for her party's nomination, Clinton drew criticism this time from fellow Democrats as well as Republicans.

"To ensure all Americans have affordable health care will take more than leadership that simply knows how to fight," said rival Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn.

Addressing a crowd at a medical center in the early voting state of Iowa, Clinton laid out her proposal, with the centerpiece a so-called "individual mandate," requiring everyone to have health insurance - just as most states require drivers to purchase auto insurance. Rival John Edwards has also offered a plan that includes an individual mandate, while the proposal outlined by Barack Obama does not.

"I believe everyone - every man, woman and child - should have quality, affordable health care in America," said Clinton, vowing to accomplish the goal in her first term.

For individuals and families who are not covered by employers or whose employer-based coverage is inadequate, Clinton would offer expanded versions of two existing government programs: Medicare and the health insurance plan currently offered to federal employees.

Consumers could choose between either government-run program, but aides stress that no new federal bureaucracy would be created under the Clinton plan.

Clinton proposed several specific measures to pay for her plan, including an end to some of the Bush-era tax cuts for people making more than $250,000 per year. Edwards has vowed to completely repeal the tax cuts for high earners to pay for the cost of his plan, estimated at $90 billion-$120 billion per year, while Obama would pay for his plan in part by letting the tax cuts expire in 2010.

Her speech came nearly 14 years after her first attempt at a universal healthcare plan that was highly criticized by Republicans as a socialized medical plan that eventually fell apart and left a stain on the former First Lady's record, reports CBS News reporter Fernando Suarez. Despite her failed attempt in 1993 Clinton assured the crowd of about 150 doctors, nurses and patients that she grew from her experience.

Aides say she has jettisoned the complexity and uncertainty of the last effort in favor of a plan that stresses simplicity, cost control and consumer choice.

In response, Obama said Clinton's plan is similar to one he proposed in the spring, "though my universal health care plan would go further in reducing the punishing cost of health care than any other proposal that's been offered in this campaign."

He took another swipe at the Clinton administration's closed-door sessions on health care in the 1990s, saying "the real key to passing any health care reform is the ability to bring people together in an open, transparent process that builds a broad consensus for change."

Other Democratic rivals were swift in their criticism.

Delaware Sen. Joe Biden said, "If universal health care plans could have gotten us health care, we would have gotten it a long time ago." Added John Edwards: "If you're going to negotiate universal health care with the same powerful interests that defeated it before, your proposal isn't a plan, it's a starting point."

Edwards said on his first day in office he will submit legislation that would pull health insurance for the president, members of Congress and all political appointees unless they pass universal health care within six months.

Republican Mitt Romney, in New York City for a fundraising stop, criticized Clinton's proposal, saying, "'Hillary care' continues to be bad medicine ... in her plan, we have Washington-managed health care. Fundamentally, she takes her inspiration from European bureaucracies."

The plan that Romney helped institute while governor of Massachusetts requires the same individual insurance mandate as Clinton's and uses state subsidies to help reduce the cost of private coverage. Since then, Romney has said he would leave it up to the states to decide whether they supported such a mandate.

Said Republican Rudy Giuliani's campaign: "Senator Clinton's latest health scheme includes more government mandates, expensive federal subsidies and more big bureaucracy - in short, prescription for an increase in wait times, a decrease in patient care and tax hikes to pay for it all."

[jimfinster]

This seems really unwise on her part. Many people have negative memories of her previous attempt in 1994. Not a smooth move at all...

[socrates392]

Posted by jimfinster at 12:39 AM : Sep 17, 2007

Ya, not only that, but many libertarian types just don''t like to be told what to do. Mandating health care isn''t going to make them too happy. This will certainly alienate some independents that she might have been able to woo otherwise.

Personally, I think mandated insurance is a good idea if it leads to lower premiums . . . I just hope there are adequate provisions in her plan to supply free or no cost insurance to low income families.

[usayesterday]

This seems really unwise on her part. Many people have negative memories of her previous attempt in 1994. Not a smooth move at all...

Posted by jimfinster at 12:39 AM : Sep 17, 2007
.............

I see your point, however...

...in 1994, there were no where near as many uninsured Americans as there are now.

There were no where near as many Americans filing for bankruptcy due to medical costs in 1994 as there are now.

Health care premiums in 1994 were less than half of the monthly average cost as they are now.

Thousands more employers in America covered their employees with health care insurance in 1994 than they do now.

Hillary Clinton was not "evil" or "Communist" as radio fascists Limbaugh, Hannity, O''Riely, and others made her out to be.

Hillary Clinton, in 1994, was simply ahead of her time!

[kissamaarse]

On the one hand, it is a pittance that our tax dollars contribute this amount. On the other hand, COMPULSORY health insurance to the insurance companies? Like setting the fox to watch the hen-house.

[jerr11]

The best thing I''ve heard in a long time!

If we can spend $2 billion a week to keep the Islamist regime alive in Iraq, we can afford to spend $110 a year to take care of our own taxpayers.

[socrates392]

On the one hand, it is a pittance that our tax dollars contribute this amount. On the other hand, COMPULSORY health insurance to the insurance companies? Like setting the fox to watch the hen-house.

Posted by kissamaarse at 12:55 AM : Sep 17, 2007

I too am dubious of insurance companies, but as the article points out, most states already have a similar system in place for auto insurance. There will undoubtedly will be abuses, but nothing too outrageous . . . at least as long as a dems control congress and the whitehouse . . .

[jimfinster]

It will be a rally point for the neocons. Expect to hear "nanny state" over and over. Man, am I so tired of those idiots.

[socrates392]

It will be a rally point for the neocons. Expect to hear "nanny state" over and over. Man, am I so tired of those idiots.

Posted by jimfinster at 01:05 AM : Sep 17, 2007

Me too brother, me too.

[tasmhs]

Personally, I think mandated insurance is a good idea if it leads to lower premiums . . . I just hope there are adequate provisions in her plan to supply free or no cost insurance to low income families.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by socrates392 at 12:48 AM : Sep 17, 2007


Socrates392,

I agree with you on the worries about how poor people are going to afford the monthly premiums. And that is why I could not support a mandated insurance program. I strongly support universal health care, but single-payer Canadian/British style. I am a Moderate GOP and the right wingers hate my point of view, but sometimes you just have to do the right thing. It is disgraceful that in the most prosperous country in the world, over 40 million people are uninsured.

I give Hillary credit for tackling the issue, it shows some guts on her part.

[jyu1915]

On the one hand, it is a pittance that our tax dollars contribute this amount. On the other hand, COMPULSORY health insurance to the insurance companies? Like setting the fox to watch the hen-house.

Posted by kissamaarse

Insurance companies increase their bottom line by denying claims. Just look what the insurance companies did to the Katrina victims. I doubt anything will change no matter which party is in power. Remember that Hillary is one of the top receivers of contributions from the health care industry in the Senate.

[socrates392]

Posted by tasmhs at 01:09 AM : Sep 17, 2007

We''ll have to wait and see what the details of this plan look like. I would also prefer a British/Canadian style system, but maybe Hillary has found a way to make mandated insurance workable. I remain cautiously optimistic.

P.S. It is great to actually talk to a free thinker on this board. So many posters are just partisans of one party or the other-- that doesn''t always lead to very good conversation! :)

[lars008-2009]

billarycare 2 / the communist manifesto...

as the socialist governments of canada and europe are having huge problems with their socialized healthcare and the rich come to the usa for their healthcare...

billary klintoon seeks to destroy what is left the the usa healthcare that the illegals have not already destroyed...

Clinton Readies Her U.S. Health Plan as Pitfalls Loom
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a5Oi_hYhtiOo&refer=worldwide

[lars008-2009]

it is fascist nazi terrorislam stupid%u2026.

non muslims of the world unite... fight against the tyranny of the fascist nazi terrorslam imperialist empire of the darkside...

I was a fanatic...I know their thinking, says former radical Islamist
By blaming the Government for our actions, those who pushed this "Blair''''''''s bombs" line did our propaganda work for us.
More important, they also helped to draw away any critical examination from the real engine of our violence: Islamic theology.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=465570&in_page_id=1770

Bless the Beasts and Children
Fascist nazi terrorslam kills every man woman and child in the village again%u2026 typical mo for terrorslam%u2026
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/bless-the-beasts-and-children.htm

Our Prophet commanded us to fight the kaafirs when we are able and to attack them in their homelands and to give them three choices before we enter their lands: either they become Muslim and be like us, sharing our rights and duties; or they pay the jizyah (poll tax) and feel themselves subdued; or they fight, in which case their wealth, women, children and homes become permissible as booty for the Muslims.
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=13759&ln=eng&txt=before%20islam%20arabia%20pagan

the truth about fascist nazi terrorislam...
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

[lars008-2009]

LOOK WHO IS TARGETING CIVILIANS!!!

Qaeda warns of attacks ''''''''worse than 9/11''''''''
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070530102648.wuwa6k96&show_article=1

Hizbullah Deputy Sec-Gen Sheikh Naim Qassem: We Have Jurisprudent Permission to Carry Out ''Martyrdom'' Operations, Fire Missiles on Israeli Civilians From Ayatollah Khomeini
http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD154907

Switching Sides: Inside The Enemy Camp

But then in 2000, well before his arrest, something happened which would make Abas question everything he believed in: a fatwa, a religious edict, was issued by Osama bin Laden.

"It should be understood that killing Americans and Jews anywhere found are the highest act of worship and the highest form of good deeds in the eyes of Allah," Simon quotes bin Laden.

Abas and his fellow commanders were ordered to read the fatwa to their men and make sure they carried it out. The others obeyed, but Abas refused. It was his moment of truth. He firmly believed that jihad was to be fought only on the battlefield in defense of Islam; he had always been taught that the killing of civilians had nothing to do with holy war and that it was forbidden.

The fatwa justified killing non-Muslim civilians everywhere.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/04/60minutes/main2761108.shtml?source=RSSattr=60Minutes_2761108
American Al Qaeda Member Threatens Attack
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/29/terror/main2865282.shtml

[lars008-2009]

Magnus Gahnstrvm We have to defend our democratic rights against religious faschism. The swedish government must act now.

LEIF LJUNGKVIST PEOPLE SHALL BE FREE TO SAY AND THINK WHAT THEY WANT

Bjorn Danielsson When foreign jihadists solicit murder, a military response is appropriate.

Kevin North Islam is not a race, Islam is not a religion. Islam is a megalomaniacal socio-political doctrine not unlike Facism. It relies upon fear, hatred and a systemic supremecist ideology to spread around the world. Islam should be made illegal in every civilized country.

Jon Dear Unless we stand together, the freedoms we inherited will be lost to this cult that threatens murder at every opportunity.

Andreas E. Islam: the new nazism

Josef Fransson Islam = Nazism & kommunism

Stewart C. Sawyer Protect your rights, OUTLAW ISLAM!!!!!

Marcus Eriksson Stop taking the "lesser" muslims side by calling them victims! This is an open declaration of war on free speech, democracy and our economy!

Julius Balogh This Swedish CITIZEN needs his rights protected from these foreign terrorists. When will the government protect its own people? Defend Swedes from islamic immigrants who seek to overthrow your nation using your own laws against you. Outlaw islam today and send home all muslims to their homelands. All other religions are outlawed so why do we tolerate seditionist islam in our borders? Islam is a political cult posing as a religion.

[lars008-2009]

sign the petition...

Support Free Speech, Support Lars Vilks Petition, hosted at petitiononline.com.
http://www.petitiononline.com/vilks/petition.html

http://www.vilks.net/

[socrates392]

Lars008, do you think anyone actually takes you seriously? You be much more persuasive if you stopped the mass cut-n-pastes and wrote short, concise posts.

Just a little friendly advice . . . because as it, you just seem hysterical.

[lars008-2009]

IS EUROPE WAKING UP TO FASCIST NAZI TERRORISLAM!!! WILL THE DEMONIC-RATS???

Germany considers increased spying on Muslims
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/19539.html

Swiss expulsion proposal draws criticism
Under the plan, entire families would be expelled if their children are convicted of a violent crime, drug offenses or benefits fraud.

"We believe that parents are responsible for bringing up their children. If they can''''t do it properly, they will have to bear the consequences," Ueli Maurer, president of the People''''s Party, told The Associated Press.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070901/ap_on_re_eu/switzerland_deportation_campaign
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2938940.ece

Netherlands sets plan against extremism
The Dutch government will spend $38 million over the next four years to prevent both the growth of Islamic fundamentalism and right-wing nationalism, an official said Monday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070827/ap_on_re_eu/netherlands_extremists_1

Germany Wants to Spy on Suspects Via Web
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RC4F2O1&show_article=1

Straitjackets for illegals
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2176422,00.html

[socrates392]

Lars008, do you think anyone actually takes you seriously? You be much more persuasive if you stopped the mass cut-n-pastes and wrote short, concise posts.

Just a little friendly advice . . . because as it, you just seem hysterical.

[tnt1954]

good food, good shelter, good clothing, love and
recreation and rest and medication are all necessary
to good health. isn''t that great the government
is gonna provide it for all of us? if you aren''t
healthy you can''t work to provide the essentials
of ''staying alive''. us public health is at stake.
so is everyone else''s on the planet. war is not
healthy for anyone. its unhealthy. medical community
to figure out a way to bring about a healthy
planet. once you lose your health, its very hard
to get it back. welcome to zee medical dictatorship.
we know what''s best for you. take five of these
and call me in ten years. my appointment calendar
is full till then.

[incog-nito]

Whatever this is, it''s NOT universal healthcare. It does nothing to contain exploding health care costs year after year. The insurance companies will simply take advantage of the tax credit by raising premiums even more. This will be just another huge windfall for corporations paid for by the American taxpayers.

[socrates392]

Whatever this is, it''''s NOT universal healthcare. It does nothing to contain exploding health care costs year after year. The insurance companies will simply take advantage of the tax credit by raising premiums even more. This will be just another huge windfall for corporations paid for by the American taxpayers.

Posted by incog-nito at 01:38 AM : Sep 17, 2007

There is no way she will get support for this plan unless she places some cap on premiums! No way! Besides, as the article says, many states aleady mandate auto insurance . . . are your auto insurance premiums skyrocketing?

Also, I got to say, if everyone is covered, it is universal insurance.

[lars008-2009]

Posted by socrates392 at 01:29 AM : Sep 17, 2007

We make war that we may live in peace. Aristotle

[incog-nito]

Mandatory health insurance is NOT the same as universal healthcare. In my state which has mandatory car insurance, it''s estimated that at least 25% of drivers do not have insurance. Can somebody explain how mandatory car insurance somehow magically lowers costs? Of course it doesn''t. This plan makes no sense whatsoever. It simply forces people to buy health insurance whether they can afford it or not. The tax credit may help, but insurers can simply raise their premium. This is NOT the answer.

Hillary Clinton has finally shown her true colors.

[brianbwb-2009]

Any requirement that we have to pay for is just another tax. If anyone is truly interested in improving health care, the government ought to take back the war profiteers'' ill gotten gains, couple it with a tax on tobacco, alcohol, firearms, marijuana, and gambling, and use the money to build and maintain hospitals.

Then subsidize med school in exchange for a bond to serve four years for reasonable pay in the public hospitals with published rates for categories of procedures, set to cover costs, rather than maximize profits.

This will pressure the insurance industry to lower premiums and improve service, if they want to stay in business.

[socrates392]

We make war that we may live in peace. Aristotle

Posted by lars008 at 01:49 AM : Sep 17, 2007

Aristole was racist who believed that the ideal society was an absolute monarchy. He readily encouraged Alexander to launch his ill-fated crusade into the Persian Empire-- sorta like ancient Karl Rove!

Thus, I can see why his philosophy may appeal to you, but it certainly does not appeal to me.

[incog-nito]

Just like "public" college education is becoming less and less affordable, what will happen is that this health plan will start out great. Then the insurers will find ways to raise their premiums (just like they''re doing now). Then the taxpayer has to foot the bill for more tax credits. Then the cycle continues.

If you''re going to have universal healthcare, then have universal healthcare. Not this giving with one hand and taking back (more) with the other.

[brianbwb-2009]

What good is a tax credit, if you work at a McJob, and can''t afford to pay the fees anyway? Or if you lose your job to a Mexican trucking firm, or are a laid off auto worker, or a sweatshop employee? Or a phone service employee, whose job just got on the plane to India?

Those working at or near the minimum wage, who cannot afford any extra expenditures, are being asked to add a bill of at least another $100 per month, and there is no oversight to prevent collusion by the insurance companies to set premiums wherever they want, and there will be no alternatives, as Hillary naively believes.

Ironic how the fake "conservatives" hate Hillary, even though the plan she offers could easily be claimed as one of their own.

[brianbwb-2009]

Universal health care is not even needed, the rich can afford health care, and need no help.

What is needed is affordable access for those earning the median income level or below. My plan, posted below, is an idea aimed at those who cannot afford a new "tax". It may not be perfect, but it will work far better than Hillary''s...

[socrates392]

Posted by brianbwb at 02:02 AM : Sep 17, 2007

The added cost for low income families is definitely a concern. But surely she has some sort of provision for that in her plan. This is Hillary we are talking about here. She has to at least try to maintain her image as the defender of the poor. I think we should all wait to hear the details before we dismiss the plan outright.

I agree though that I would feel a lot more confident if she were unveiling a plan more along the lines of England or Canada.

[lars008-2009]

Aristole was racist who believed that the ideal society was an absolute monarchy. He readily encouraged Alexander to launch his ill-fated crusade into the Persian Empire--
Posted by socrates392 at 01:58 AM : Sep 17, 2007

hahahaha leave it you to call Alexandder The Great ill-fated... hahahahaha

so tell us... what was Ginghis Khan then haji???

better yet... what was mud-ham-mad ali baba''s crusades then haji???

[lars008-2009]

the war Muhammad ali baba started rages on 1400 years later...
623 - Battle of Waddan
623 - Battle of Safwan
623 - Battle of Dul-''Ashir
624 - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
624 - Zakat becomes mandatory
624 - Battle of Badr
624 - Battle of Bani Salim
624 - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
624 - Battle of Bani Qainuqa''
624 - Battle of Sawiq
624 - Battle of Ghatfan
624 - Battle of Bahran
625 - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
625 - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
625 - Battle of Banu Nudair
625 - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
626 - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
626 - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
626 - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
627 - Battle of the Trench
627 - Battle of Ahzab
627 - Battle of Bani Quraiza
627 - Battle of Bani Lahyan
627 - Battle of Ghaiba
627 - Battle of Khaibar
628 - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
630 - Battle of Hunsin.
630 - Battle of Tabuk
632 - Muhammad dies.
http://www.carm.org/islam/islam_chronology.htm

[lars008-2009]

the war that fascist nazi terrorislamic muslims started rages on 1400 years later...

The Truth about Islamic Crusades and Imperialism

Historical facts say that Islam has been imperialistic%u2014and would still like to be, if only for religious reasons. Many Muslim clerics, scholars, and activists, for example, would like to impose Islamic law around the world. Historical facts say that Islam, including Muhammad, launched their own Crusades against Christianity long before the European Crusades.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/11/the_truth_about_islamic_crusad.html
http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/08/the_muslim_crusades.html

the truth about fascist nazi terrorislam...
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

Islamic origins
http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/pdf/compass/hico_058.pdf

Origin of Islam
http://www.allaboutreligion.org/origin-of-islam.htm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Origin+of Islam%3A Secular History

[incog-nito]

socrates392: It''s probably premature to judge this plan, but based on the limited information this article provides I must say I am rather disappointed.

[socrates392]

hahahaha leave it you to call Alexandder The Great ill-fated... hahahahaha

so tell us... what was Ginghis Khan then haji???

better yet... what was mud-ham-mad ali baba''''s crusades then haji???

Posted by lars008 at 02:13 AM : Sep 17, 2007

I don''t know, haji? Why don''t you tell me without cutting and pasting from Wikipedia.

[lastdance2]

RE : lars008

Get off the Net ! ! !

Take your low-life Spam with you

Lastdance

[socrates392]

socrates392: It''''s probably premature to judge this plan, but based on the limited information this article provides I must say I am rather disappointed.

Posted by incog-nito at 02:15 AM : Sep 17, 2007

Fair enough. I think we all are. But are you really surprised. I don''t know, I guess I never had a lot of confidence in Hillary to do the right thing.

[lars008-2009]

Posted by socrates392 at 02:21 AM : Sep 17, 2007

so it is only Alexander The Great you have a problem with...

not the robber, raper, murderer, pedophile, jesus wannabee mud-ham-mad ali baba''s crusades... lol

hahaha

[brianbwb-2009]

"This is Hillary we are talking about here. She has to at least try to maintain her image as the defender of the poor" Posted by socrates392,

They all do that, left and right, until they get their feet in the trough, then, once their fortunes are salted away, its the same line from the Senate scene in Mel Brooks'' "History of the World, Pt 1", where the senate shouts in unison "*** the poor!"

[incog-nito]

Socrates: This may the best America is ready for at this time. I hope it''s just a first step.

Good night all.

[brianbwb-2009]

And to the site admins, why does this site echo apostrophe? Watch this;

'' is an apostrophe
" is a quote

Shall I offer my IT services? I can do better, and I am overseas, so you could say it is "outsourcing"...

[socrates392]

so it is only Alexander The Great you have a problem with...

not the robber, raper, murderer, pedophile, jesus wannabee mud-ham-mad ali baba''''s crusades... lol

hahaha

Posted by lars008 at 02:26 AM : Sep 17, 2007

Did you really have to go there?! Why do you feel it necessary to denegrate the prophet of the Muslim faith. What is wrong with you?!

Also, FYI, I''m not a big fan of any imperial power that launchs wars of agression. That goes for pagans, muslims, christians, jews, etc. I just don''t like crusades in general.

[lars008-2009]

Posted by socrates392 at 02:32 AM : Sep 17, 2007

ummmm that would be false prophet...

[brianbwb-2009]

Posted by socrates392,

Yo Soc, you ought to know by now that the Belgian Bomber, lars, is just a troll. He has for months been cutting and pasting the same irrelevant self hatred inspired drivel on all the topics, just take it as background noise, let those extremists who use it as proof of western ill will, also see that there is rational discussion also on these topics.

[socrates392]

They all do that, left and right, until they get their feet in the trough, then, once their fortunes are salted away, its the same line from the Senate scene in Mel Brooks'''' "History of the World, Pt 1", where the senate shouts in unison "*** the poor!"

Posted by brianbwb at 02:27 AM : Sep 17, 2007

Truer words were never said.

[one_american]

HillaryCare is Dead on Arrival.

And it''s been long dead, from the smell of it.

[lars008-2009]

MUHAMMAD ALI BABA CALLS OUT TO HIS SATANIC GOD ON HIS DEATH BED...

allah obviously not the same God as the Christians and Jews.......

"Allah''s damnation be on the Jews and the Christians who made the graves of their prophets objects of worship."

When the last moment of the prophet was near, he used to draw a sheet over his face; but when he felt uneasy, he removed it from his face and said: "Allah''s damnation be on the Jews and the Christians who made the graves of their prophets objects of worship."

Muhammad attacked Khaibar. He destroyed, tortured, murdered, plundered, and enslaved many people (ref Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, volume 2, page 134, 136, 137). They were not preparing to attack him. A Jewish woman, whose family had been wiped out by Muhammad, put poison into a lamb and fed it to Muhammad and the other Muslims. Muhammad ingested some of the poisoned lamb and began to feel it''s effects. He died three years later as a result of the poisoning.

Muhammad was not a real prophet, he was a false prophet. He died as a result of eating poison that he didn''t know about. The poisoned lamb "spoke" to him too late. Only when he realized he was dying did Muhammad "spiritualize" his suffering and coming death. Prior to that he tried to get well.
http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Silas/mo-death.htm
http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/index.html

[socrates392]

Yo Soc, you ought to know by now that the Belgian Bomber, lars, is just a troll. He has for months been cutting and pasting the same irrelevant self hatred inspired drivel on all the topics, just take it as background noise, let those extremists who use it as proof of western ill will, also see that there is rational discussion also on these topics.

Posted by brianbwb at 02:39 AM : Sep 17, 2007

I know he''s a troll. I just get sick of seeing his god awful ramblings go unanswered. It''s truly outrageous what he writes. Disgraceful. And it interupts genuine coversation.

[socrates392]

Ok, I''m starting to leave out letters when I''m typing. Good night all.

[conserva-2009]

WHAT? A nanny state delivered by ''mom.''I say what needs to be said on my CONSERVATIVE MUSIC CD I call
''Blaming America First.'' Hillary gets addressed, for sure. Good God! See if I speak for you....

www.conservativemusiconline.com