War Critics Question Obama's Fervor

Washington Post: Some Say Senator's Actions On Iraq War Don't Match Talk

(Washingtonpost.com)  This story was written by Perry Bacon Jr..

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For antiwar Illinois Democrats, the speech that made them fall in love with Barack Obama was not the one he gave in Boston in 2004 at the Democratic National Convention, but one two years earlier at a hastily organized rally in Chicago on the eve of the congressional vote to authorize the Iraq war.

"I don't oppose all wars," Obama, then a state senator, said on Oct. 2, 2002. "…. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne."

This week, Obama quoted his own words in a speech on Iraq that chastised those who "took the president at his word instead of reading the intelligence for themselves."

But some antiwar Democrats have raised questions about the depth of Obama's opposition, taking aim at one of the signature arguments for his candidacy - that he is the only leading Democratic candidate who opposed the war from the beginning.

They say that while Obama did argue against the war as a Senate candidate, he tempered his rhetoric and his opposition once he arrived in the Capitol, rejecting timetables for withdrawal and backing war funding bills. He returned to a sharper position, they say, when he started running for president.

"So many politicians were afraid" to oppose the war, "so he gets credit for that," said Jim Ginsburg, a Chicago Democratic activist. He backed Obama when he ran for the Senate in 2004 but says Al Gore is his preferred candidate for president.

"Some of his actions and speeches once he got in the Senate did not match his rhetoric," Ginsburg, the son of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, said of Obama. "He started making very mealy-mouthed comments and voted to authorize funding for the war. Once he started seeing how angry Democrats were, his rhetoric has turned to where it was in the 2004 campaign."

Obama's early opposition to the war, his advisers say, presents a telling contrast with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., and fits neatly into the candidate's larger argument that experience in Washington is not important.

At the same time, its political benefit has been limited: Polls of Democratic voters show that those who favor immediate withdrawal from Iraq and who say the war is the top issue favor Clinton, as do Democrats overall. And some in the party's Net roots - the bloggers and online activists who have grown in influence and were also early critics of the war - argue that former senator John Edwards of North Carolina has been more outspoken in his opposition in the past two years.

"It's great [Obama] had good judgment," said Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, who runs the popular liberal blog Daily Kos, but he added: "There's no clarity of message." Moulitsas said that Obama should have firmly come out against any bill that offers funding for the war without a timetable for withdrawal, as Edwards has.

"Barack Obama was against the war from Day One and has consistently fought to end it in the quickest, most responsible way possible," responded Obama spokesman Bill Burton. "Friends can disagree, but Obama has been one of the steadiest antiwar voices in Washington since he got there."

In a speech Wednesday, Obama offered his most detailed plan yet for getting troops out of Iraq, calling for the withdrawal of at least one of the 20 brigades (each made up of about 3,500 soldiers) in Iraq every month starting now, with all combat troops out by the end of next year. And even among the most antiwar audiences, Obama still has many supporters.

"He's been there from the very beginning," said Tom Andrews, the national director of a group called Win Without War.

That beginning dates to the fall of 2002, when a group of 15 liberal activists in Chicago, furious about the Bush administration's intentions in Iraq, were organizing a rally to show opposition.

They were not sure who would show up, even in liberal Chicago, as many leading Democrats all over the country were strongly backing President Bush's war effort. Along with inviting a group of clergymen and more senior political figures in the city, such as Jesse L. Jackson, one of the activists, Bettylu Saltzman, called Obama.

Saltzman said she had not even heard Obama's position on the war but thought that, as one of the more liberal members of the state Senate, he would be against it. Dan Shomon, a political strategist who was advising Obama at the time, said Obama told him he was concerned he would be perceived as a pacifist if he attended the rally. Shomon told Obama it was important to speak on a core issue, particularly with longtime allies such as Saltzman organizing the event.

At the rally, Obama spoke after Jackson, and a story in the next day's Chicago Tribune did not even mention his appearance. But the fiery speech, much different from the unifying address he would give almost two years later at the Democratic convention, impressed many of the antiwar activists, who would become important backers of Obama's underdog Senate campaign.

"Bush's ratings were at an all-time high," said Marilyn Katz, another organizer of the rally, who is now one of the top fundraisers for Obama's 2008 campaign. But Obama "was willing to stand up and stake out a leadership position."

[samthetvcat]

"It''s very difficult to force a president, once you''ve given him power to go to war, to get him to change," said Lawrence Korb, a former Reagan Defense Department official now at the liberal Center for American Progress. "It''s almost impossible for Congress to do that."

What''s the deal with the Washington Post, are they owned by Rupert Murdoch too?

If Webb''s bill passes, then isn''t that the first one to do so? They need to just keep plugging away trying different things because they''re obviously making headway. Reframing it in terms of troop rest, demanding accountability reports, etc.

[socrates392]

"It''''s very difficult to force a president, once you''''ve given him power to go to war, to get him to change," said Lawrence Korb, a former Reagan Defense Department official now at the liberal Center for American Progress. "It''''s almost impossible for Congress to do that."

Wait, when did the congress declare war on Iraq? I don''t remember a formal declaration of war.

[donnie900]

Whats all this gonna do to America when it really has to defend itself? I mean, when the war powers of the president are really needed because we''re under attack and Congress can''t decide to declare war. Probably the real reason why the framers figured a president should have war powers.

Whats going to happen when this country really has to defend itself? And its not just some phony baloney making stuff up, being the exception and not the rule, and taking away an honest president''s abilities?

[myidoncbs]

Another approach, the one that the p*ssies are really afraid of, but which is absolutely necessary for the survival of this once-great nation, is to IMPEACH CHENEY AND BUSH for the appalling HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS that they have already committed. Sure, they''ll whine, "we don''t have the votes," but if the house started having impeachment hearings on TV 24x7, and the people of this country could see and hear direct testimony on the far reaching violations of the Constitution of the United States, then the people would demand that congress force these two miscreants out of office and send them to prison.

Pick the right thing to do, and the people will follow. Pick the wrong thing to do, and you let the weasels win.

IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY. THEY ARE THE ENEMY OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, AND THEY ARE THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES.

[homespunlady]

Hmm...Osama''s well rested and is busily working at his NEW film studio paid for by Sunni backers (family?) out of Saudi since George has followed a minimal manning drawdown in the country that harbored the people that attacked us - AFGHANISTAN!

But FINALLY a pageant contestant has SOLVED the mystery of WHY we''re in IRAQ - George Doesn''t have a MAP and thinks like THIS - "like and uh Afghanistan, yeah is like Iraq and uh they''re the SAME PLACE like uh and stuff and OSAMA IS uh SADDAM like - oh heck gimme another drink or uh coke or uh yeah..."

[myidoncbs]

donnie900 says, "Whats all this gonna do to America when... the war powers of the president are really needed because we''re under attack and Congress can''t decide to declare war."

The Framers of the Constitution of the United States, the Founding Fathers, specifically chose to give the power to make war to the Congress, not to the President. They did this because Kings use their armies for personal vendettas (like little Georgie attacking Iraq to "get even with Saddam for trying to kill my daddy"). If the country is under attack, Congress is not going to fail to declare war. A single, very flawed, human being should not have the power to commit the armed forces of the United States to eternal warfare.

BushWorld is the antithesis of the rule of law. King George rules by decree, not by law. Our "freedom" is subject to his whim, so we are not free. We are not a democracy. We are not America any more. With a single act of a few lunatics, wielding box cutters, and the willing over-reaction by our president and his loyal subjects, OBL has destroyed this nation.

"The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave" is no more. The people wish to be slaves once again.

[homespunlady]

Love that record POPPY Crop in Afghanistan. Heroin and Viagra for everybody! NOT!!!

Reconstituted Taliban, health spa improvements for the relative of the Bush family friends - the BIN LADENS.

Record obscene profits for the War Profiteers.
Record widening of the asset gap between the rich and the rest of us.
Record lengthening of combat tours for the members of the US military.

The neocons haven''t stopped dancing in the streets and probably won''t until the world wakes up to a global Hangover that will take decades to recover from.
UK having bank runs, incomprehensible levels of debt, the incredible shrinking Middle Class, threats of loss of technological control, increasingly unstable weather, earthquake and volcanic instability all add up to HUGE warning signs.

Nothing like walking the train tracks with earphones on turned up loud enough to NOT hear the oncoming train.

[donnie900]

Well, isn''t it the "special ops" argument? A horse and buggy "special ops"? True that the President is one man. But also true is that no other one man in all the world is under more scrutiny by so many people.

How many of your Congressman are corrupt? How many of your local Congressman and Congresswomen? And because you choose to place so much sardonic attentions on what could be a valid excuse for a war but that you won''t let be a valid excuse for a war, they get away with everything.

[donnie900]

I believe that a President should be able to declare war. That that should be an executive privilege. An executive duty. "Commander and Chief of these Armed Forces". Congress is full of bickering and petty personal conflicts. Better the illness and conscience of a war be a thing schizophrenic, and of the soul.. than just a mere talking point.

[donnie900]

This is not a democracy. This is a Republic! And the media proves it.

[homespunlady]

From above:
"It''s very difficult to force a president, once you''ve given him power to go to war, to get him to change," said Lawrence Korb, a former Reagan Defense Department official now at the liberal Center for American Progress. "It''s almost impossible for Congress to do that."

I believe our Founding Fathers had the answer.
Maybe bringing back REAL Education rather than taxpayer funded, mass entertaining, babysitting and "standarized tests" to track the regurgitation by our young of the latest propaganda might help fix that problem.

[homespunlady]

Which First Lady backed a campaign that coined the phrase "JUST SAY NO!"
Apparently, it''s just as effectively followed by Congress as it was by young girls.

[middleman8]

The republicans have yet to learn what the whole world knows.
That g. bush strategy is like a dog chasing its tail, going in circles, going nowhere, accomplishing nothing.

[tbweb]

I was thinking about the AIDS virus. The AIDS virus will go down in history as one of the trickiest, slickest, deadliest and most elusive and evasive super germ ever. It''s ability to change on the fly like a chameleon, stay alive and avoid being killed by attackers is legendary. No matter what is tried or attempted it lives, it survives and the killing goes on unabated to the frustration of us all.

[conserva-2009]

EXACTLY why I made the country''s first and only politically CONSERVATIVE MUSIC CD. Someone had to do it! SEan Penn, Gore, Hillary and the gang get to hear THEIR names in popular music--Hollywood in reverse!
www.conservativemusiconline.com

[antoniof123]

So the administration won''t budge well in 2008 it will budge and so will the GOP they will budge from having a say in congress to having none. Within a few months into 2008 they will be running for cover but this time they will know that when you do not listen to America you will pay the price.

[imnho]

Its very hard to take anything that the president say as creditable. He took the country to war in Iraq without having a sound reason. It was more to get revenge on Saddiam Hussien then anything else. Thats a poor reason to go to war.

He also has failed to put the nation on a war time footing. As a result the pain is being felt only by the miltary and not by other segments of the population.

He went to war without trying to understand the mentality of the people he was fighting. He presumed that they would welcome us and the just got really angry.

Now he is trying to hand off the problem to the next president

[myidoncbs]

donnie says, "I believe that a President should be able to declare war. That that should be an executive privilege. An executive duty"

Then you are OPPOSED to the American system of government, OPPOSED to the Founding Fathers. You would be happier under a monarchy. because that is exactly what you are suggesting.

[myidoncbs]

PS, donnie: Under the Constitution, war powers are divided, not equal. Congress has the power to declare war and raise and support the armed forces (Article I, Section 8), while the president is Commander in Chief (Article II, Section 2). It is generally agreed that the Commander in Chief role gives the president power to repel attacks against the United States and makes him responsible for leading the armed forces.

Your fears about the president not being able to act in an emergency are unfounded.

[me4prezz]

Interesting, I found this article going around the UK:

Senior American intelligence and defence officials believe that President George W Bush and his inner circle are taking steps to place America on the path to war with Iran, The Sunday Telegraph has learnt.


*** Cheney (''The Man'') with George W Bush


Pentagon planners have developed a list of up to 2,000 bombing targets in Iran, amid growing fears among serving officers that diplomatic efforts to slow Iran''s nuclear weapons programme are doomed to fail.

Pentagon and CIA officers say they believe that the White House has begun a carefully calibrated programme of escalation that could lead to a military showdown with Iran.

Now it has emerged that Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, who has been pushing for a diplomatic solution, is prepared to settle her differences with Vice-President *** Cheney and sanction military action.

[me4prezz]

Mark Fitzpatrick, an analyst at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London, said there was now a serious prospect of American military action against Iran. He said: "There is a real possibility that President Bush will feel compelled not to allow this problem to pass to his successor."

An all-out assault on Iran''s scattered nuclear research facilities could be over in a matter of hours if it was carried out by long-range bombers and missile strikes, a report from the School of Oriental and African Studies in London said.

"The US has made military preparations to destroy Iran''s WMD, nuclear energy, regime, armed forces, state apparatus and economic infrastructure within days if not hours of President George W Bush giving the order," the report said. "The US is not publicising the scale of these preparations to deter Iran, tending to make confrontation more likely."

Also in UK news. Wonder why we are not made aware of these grand plans, BUSH!

[gkc99]

Not only does Bushit have absolutely no intention of withdrawing any significant number of troops from Iraq, ever, but the American Sheeple should get ready for the attack on Iran, that will happen sometime next year before the Nov. 2008 election.

[j-whitman]

Anyone actually trust Bush on War decisions ???

[wogerwabbit]

...and, after Bush starts the invasion of Iran, he declares martial law and cancels the elections (we''ll be told they''re being postponed). Check mate... we lose... again.

[citizenusa-2009]

We need an amendment to the Constitution that limits the ultimate power of ONE MAN. It is dangerous to let one individual have this kind of power. Look what this one has done with it! Oh my God!!!

[tbweb]

Not only does Bushit have absolutely no intention of withdrawing any significant number of troops from Iraq, ever, but the American Sheeple should get ready for the attack on Iran, that will happen sometime next year before the Nov. 2008 election.

Posted by gkc99 at 08:28 PM : Sep 16, 2007,,,

The French government is already preparing their nation for an attack on Iran, the U.S. will find out about it after the first volley of advanced Cruise Missiles are launched, unless of course CNN does its in the dark "lights, camera, action" beach routine again and we find out that way!

[me4prezz]

"French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner says the world should prepare for war over Iran''s nuclear programme.
"We have to prepare for the worst, and the worst is war," Mr Kouchner said in an interview on French TV and radio.

Mr Kouchner said negotiations with Iran should continue "right to the end", but an Iranian nuclear weapon would pose "a real danger for the whole world".

Iran has consistently denied it is trying to acquire nuclear weapons but intends to carry on enriching uranium.

Mr Kouchner also said a number of large French companies had been asked not to tender for business in Iran."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6997935.stm

WWIII anyone?

I don''t mean to sound dire, but with the US and now France talking strongly of war, I really do see WWIII as a strong possiblity and that has me scared to death. How many died in WWII? Hundreds of thousands. I don''t want my kids to grow up in that, but how do you protect them against political agendas such as these?

[sgtrds]

Bush doesn''t see Iraq as a quagmire anymore then Cheney does. To them it''s just another step in the neoconservative goal of conquest in the Middle-East to control the worlds oil supply. Cheney (who really is the president anyway) will launch an attack on Iran, no matter what the Congress or the people want. He sees this as an imperial White House, a monarchy, more then a democracy. He is determined to continue this war throughout the entire region and if it looks like a democrat who wants to change this policy is going to get elected then have no doubt that Cheney will have them killed. There is far too much money and power at stake and far too long of prison terms for those involved, to allow anyone to stop it now. If a Democrat is elected to the White House them mark my words, they''ll be the next JFK and be assassinated. Cheney really is that insane and that evil.

[tbweb]

I don''''t mean to sound dire, but with the US and now France talking strongly of war, I really do see WWIII as a strong possiblity and that has me scared to death. How many died in WWII? Hundreds of thousands. I don''''t want my kids to grow up in that, but how do you protect them against political agendas such as these?

Posted by me4prezz at 11:31 PM : Sep 16, 2007,,,

You are not being dire, you are being practical and realistic! I''ve studied the Spiritual domain for many years, mostly privately. I find mythology fascinating and fun too. I''ve never made any public predictions about any of it. But based on what I''ve studied I can share this; Now is the time to make your peace with your maker! Now is the time to prepare for the afterlife. The only way Earth and Humans can survive at this stage is with extreme Diplomacy and kindness and goodwill towards each other and this process will need to last for at least the next 20 years! Personally I don''t think humans can rise to the occasion. Humans like to think they are masters of all they survey but this 20 year peace challenge will be the ultimate test and I don''t think humans can be peaceful the way they need to be for even a few years. Unless humans are, these will be the last days in time. In the Spiritual domain its written, but if humans are the true masters of all they survey, it doesn''t have to be.

[brianbwb-2009]

"If a Democrat is elected to the White House them mark my words, they''''ll be the next JFK and be assassinated. Cheney really is that insane and that evil."
Posted by SgtRDS

Pre-emptive strike on Bush/Cheney? Something to think about, "clear and present danger"...

"Check mate... we lose... again." Posted by WogerWabbit

Pre-emptive strike on Bush/Cheney? Something to think about, "clear and present danger"...

"Pentagon and CIA officers say they believe that the White House has begun a carefully calibrated programme of escalation that could lead to a military showdown with Iran." Posted by me4prezz

Pre-emptive strike on Bush/Cheney? Something to think about, "clear and present danger"...

[realpatriot1]

me4prezz,

The need for long range bombers to attack Iran makes the B-52 broken arrow incident recently all the more intriguing.

The fact that several airmen from Minot have turned up dead under mysterious circumstances, including the airman responsible for the security of the tactical nukes loaded on the B-52, adds to the intrigue.

Mutiny anyone?

[forthepeopl1]

"It''s very difficult to force a president, once you''ve given him power to go to war, to get him to change," said Lawrence Korb, a former Reagan Defense Department official now at the liberal Center for American Progress. "It''s almost impossible for Congress to do that."

thats bull-s/h/i/t all congress has to do is to de-authurize the 2002 authurisation to use force..

its that simple...so why will they not do this????

[tbweb]

Part 1:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/16/wiran116.xml

Part 2:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411419433&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Part 3:
WWIII ???

[bluestardad]

TRY BUSH CHENY FOR WAR CRIMES...TAKE THEIR NEOCONS WITH THEM INTO TRIAL!

THE WAR WAS ILLEGAL AND STARTED ON A LIE!

[liberalme]

Hopefully GOD will get rid of all the "evil-doers" seeing as no one in America has the backbone to get these terrorists out of our White House!!

Republicans are balking like mules and democrats have a yellow line as wide as the Atlantic ocean going down their backs.

Why are these people afraid of Bush? There are a lot more of us than there is of his kind!
I personally, am sick of our "do nothing" representatives--I don''t care how difficult it is to impeach a president during war time!!!!!

[tbweb]

God and the Constitution

On Sept. 17, 1787, after a long summer of argument and compromise, the Founders completed and signed what would become the U.S. Constitution. And despite popular misconception, it didn''''t include a word about the USA being a "Christian nation."

In fact, the Constitution doesn''''t mention Christianity, or God, at all. It is a secular document outlining the structure of what would become the new government of this nation.

Likewise, the First Amendment to the Constitution, which protects every individual''''s right to practice his or her own religion %u2014 bans government "establishment" or direct support of religion %u2014 makes no mention of Christianity.

Source: http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/index.html#entry-39032319