Iraq Progress Could Be Major '08 Factor

Politico: The Candidates Are Even More Polarized After Petraeus' Testimony

(The Politico)  This story was written by Ben Smith and Jonathan Martin.

---

Few audiences listened more attentively to Monday’s testimony by Army Gen. David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker than the 2008 presidential field. And few audiences had more riding on what the two men said.

At the end of the day, the men (and woman) who want to be their party’s nominee appeared even more polarized on the subject of the war after a call by Petraeus and Crocker to continue President Bush’s surge policy, coupled with the promise of modest troop reductions by next summer.

Democrats mirrored the views of their base by joining hands in unified opposition to the Petraeus/Crocker analysis. Republicans - some of whom had been cool to the troop buildup - voiced their support and attacked the tactics of anti-war activists, particularly a full-page ad placed by MoveOn.org in Monday’s New York Times, making reference to “General Betray Us.”

For Republicans, some of whom had been sidling ever so slightly away from Bush on Iraq, the hint of even incremental progress was occasion to full-throatedly support the surge - a policy that continues to enjoy strong support among the GOP voters most likely to turn out for next year’s primaries and caucuses.

“The governor has been clear that he supports the surge and that he thinks that it’s working,” said Kevin Madden, a spokesman for former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, who just last week called the war “a mess.”

For Democrats, the White House push to continue the surge was unanimously opposed, despite continuing differences over legislative tactics.

“Changing the definition of success to stay the course with the wrong policy is the wrong course for our troops and our national security. The time to end the surge and to start bringing our troops home is now - not six months from now,” Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) said in a statement. “I can only support a policy that begins an immediate removal of our troops from Iraq’s civil war and initiates a sustained drawdown of our military presence.”

Senators on the Armed Services and Foreign Relations committees, including Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Obama, will have a chance to confront Petraeus and Crocker at hearings Tuesday. Obama will offer his views on future Iraq policy in Clinton, Iowa, on Wednesday.

There were chinks in the unified front, however. Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards continued to press his two chief rivals, and the rest of the Senate, to take a more confrontational stance toward the Bush administration and to block any funding for the war that doesn’t come with a timeline for withdrawal.

In a debate televised on the Spanish-language channel Univision on Sunday, Edwards spoke caustically of the Petraeus report, calling it “basically a sales job by the White House.”

Connecticut Sen. Chris Dodd took a similarly hard-edged line. “The fact that there are questions about Gen. Petraeus’ report is not surprising, given that it was brought to you by this White House. In contrast, independent report after report indicates that the whack-a-mole strategy has made this the bloodiest summer of the war. And by the general’s admission, the so-called surge has not achieved its goal of political progress,” Dodd said in a statement Monday.

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson used the long-awaited hearing to again try to draw a distinction with his opponents on Iraq. The leading candidates have been loath to detail actual withdrawal plans, and many of their advisers imagine withdrawing American troops over a period of years to attempt to avoid massive Iraqi bloodshed.

“I have challenged the other major Democratic candidates to tell the American people how many troops they will leave in Iraq and for how long,” Richardson said in a statement. “The other major candidates have suggested that they will leave some troop behind indefinitely. That idea does not make sense.”

[clestes-2009]

Could be?? It will be and the reps are going to lose the white house and not regain Congress. They have proven to be completely useless and it is time to get rid of the whole lot.

[ezillyamused]

Any person who can, with a straight face, say that the surge is working and our troops have to remain until we''ve "won" needs to get their head examined!

Congress must not only insist that the troops come home NOW, they must also impeach *** Cheney first, then Dubya IMMEDIATELY!!!

[tankersmash]

Rep or Democrat...Pro-war or anti-war...you have to admit that old "dubya" has ruined the chances of the GOP in ''08.

[realpatriot1]

When our missions in Lebanon and Somalia became counter-productive to continue Reagan and Clinton pulled the plug and removed the troops.

If we had stubbornly refused to leave and instead had continued to bear casualties in the hope of a miraculous turn around, it''s possible that it might have happened eventually. Both Lebanon and Somalia might be better today if we had remained and accepted more casualties. It might have turned around but it''s not likely.

Fortunately we had Presidents who weren''t afraid of the political criticism that comes from accepting an uncomfortable reality and ending a failed policy. We aren''t so lucky now.

If we stay another 4 years for the Iraqi military to be "ready", will they be? Will the government ever be ready to meet its benchmarks? Do they even have the same agenda for Iraq that we do?

How is any of this making us any safer here? What are our soldiers dying for, a Shiite government aligned with Iran?

[nerfff-2009]

Sorry folks. The timing right now favors the republicans in ''08. The Iraq war is well on the way to being won and the political barrier that has prevented Musharaf from nabbing bin Laden is gone. Your wishful thinking and naysaying with not change the facts. Big win for republicans in ''08.

[williamf57]

Same thing every time, just another six months and everything will be fine. What a bunch of ***, they will just get more of our troops killed, spend more money, and end up in the same spot as we are now. Hundreds of billions of dollars spent on this boondoggle, going on four thousand dead troops and they''re still telling us that we''re at risk from terror attacks, what''s that tell you. We would''ve been much better off if we went after the real terrorist and then taken half the money
they''ve wasted on this war and spent it on security measures that actually work.

[getagrip54]

Big win for republicans in ''''''''08.
Posted by nerfff a

WHAT THE HELLO ARE YOU SMOKING?

LOOKS LIKE ONE VOTE FOR THE GOP

nerfff

WHAT NUMB-NUT USED PIECE OF AZZ WIPE
Posted by mocaleo at 11:20 AM : Sep 11, 2007

Now, Now, Theres no need to call names. Obviously nerfff is operating under a disability. It''s nice to see they encourage the patients to use the internet at the Psych Ward.

[pepperp1]

So the Republicans are claiming victory for the George Bush Surge his political campaign ploy of providing cover to the Republicans in the Senate and Congress to stay the course and that by doing this he out foxed to Dems to delay troop removal until the next President Takes office. And they are dancing in the streets patting themselves on the back.

They also agree this is not in American interest to stay the course or that the expense was worth the minor changes and that violence is high, that soldiers and Iraqi will are dying needlessly and will continue to do so with 9 being killed yesterday, that the deficit is putting our national safety at risk our Military in danger with this demand, and that the war and how it was conducted was a huge mistake.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE%u2026..how is that even remotely a victory how can an event about Governance for this country that allows soldiers to die for no gain be deem Politically Successful for any Political Party. I can assure you no Dem or 3 rd Party Presidential political ploy like this would ever be deemed ok by there base, let alone a victory.

CHOOSE LIFE FOR OUR TROOPS call your Senator and tell him 5 years later, 4,000 dead, 34,000 wounded, tens of thousands of Iraqi dead, and 2 Trillion is too much and our troops need to come home.


[phone] for the Senate, and [phone] for the House

[notblue]

Realpatriot1, according to your logic if we leave Iraq in defeat and letthe militant elements take over Iraq and the greater middle east they will leave America alone and we will be safer. What are you smoking! THe radical militants have been attacking America and it''s interests for over 30 years. Many attacks occured without provocation even during Clintons time in office, numerous occured before the Iraq conflict so as usual your argument contains No logic, just more of the same *** from the left. You may convince yorself that Amrica is the problem with your tired rhetoric but clear thinking Americans know the problem lies with the radical militants and there leftwing supporters in this country.

[mudrose-2009]

"I can only support a policy that begins an immediate removal of our troops from Iraq%u2019s civil war and initiates a sustained drawdown of our military presence."
Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill.

Any candidate on the left is a puppet of MoveOn.Org as well as any lefty in the House and Senate are. There are no independent candidates on the left. They are bought and paid for by MoveOn.Org, the organization that keeps murderers, philanderers, thieves, solicitors of pornography and liars in our Congress. They are not trustworthy and they are treasonous liars. To vote for anyone on the left is to vote for open borders, illegal aliens and terrorists. They are the party of hypocrites and traitors. They have no morality, no moral backbone and no humanity. Hollywood is their God and their military is the Pink Nazifeminist Brigade marching in the wings of the Congress. Woopie, the lefties, party of unprincipled magots. Spit in your own faces not on our generals. They are full of ***** and conspiracy theories which shows ya just how twisted their minds are.

[sasi1-2009]

Con game in spades! Where is the actual touted report? Why hasn''t Petraeus actually put it in writing for all of us to read? He should have had to answer each and every set point for gauging the effectiveness of said surge IN WRITING. The surge did not meet the criteria set, but they are still claiming victory? Now, I can still count, and those very few partials just don''t add up to meeting the set criteria. I''m shocked that so many people still believe everything this administration & it''s puppets say.

[Syndicate]

Big Win for McCain. He owns this issue. No one can touch McCain on this. How does someone like Clinton or Obama who has never served, debate a POW over war? Hell the surge was his Idea and its working. All the Democrats can do is lie and try to spin it. Sorry but the Last times the Democrats lied to me I helped reelect Bush.

[antoniof123]

Another 6 months and then another and another. Sounds like Viet Nam and in almost all cases it is except for one. Durning the 60''s and 70''s we were the economic power house of the world today the world is smaller and we are just another fish in the sea. In fact we here in America get everthing from China now. Wait did I say that right the neocons are making friends with a communist country they wanted to destroy communism. Wow, what a change in tide, of course the same outcome except now we have lost so much in American spending and economic power thanks to the GOP. In time as the value of the US dollars decreases against other countries we will have the same clout as those that we send relief too. The sad part is thanks to the neocons we will not get any help from the very ones that we help today because of the way the GOP has treated the rest of the world. But don''t worry they have a plan.

[endfascism]

The Republicans have failed. Period. And, yet, they still insist on bucking popular opinion. Go figure. By the people for the people? Hmmm, now where have I heard that phrase?

[clestes-2009]

nerfff

Where are you getting your facts from? Do you read articles that are written by people who have not only been in Iraq recently, but are completely independent.

Did you know, for example, that there now exists a civil war now raging between the Shiites sects inside the already existing civil war between Sunnis and Shiites?

Did you know that 80% of the Iraqi population thinks the US is making matters worse? Or that the current emphasis on Anbar is fuether fractioning Iraq, which is a European idea anyway?

Did you know that the less violence in Bahgdad comes not from US troops, but because the Sunni population has been purged from Bahgdad?

What is your definition of winning? Is it standing on top of a building waving a US flag?

If you didn''t know any of the above, you are clueless about what is really happening in Iraq and the situation is still going down, down down and so are the reps next year.

[skyk-2009]

Every Veteran of Vietnam knows what the REAL numbers mean... The citizens of Iraq want us out in big numbers but what is worse is that 57% of them think it''s okay to Kill our troops. Take that into account with the FACT that the resistance to the occupation is now in control of the Second Largest City in the country and you have a major problem. Some seem to think that putting a stop to the slide is turning the corner. How many corners do we turn before we realize this is a quagmire with no end in sight. We should allow the citizens of that nation to vote on IF we stay or go. I could live with it IF the citizens of Iraq said they wanted the US to stay.

[clestes-2009]

So Crash,

What is the definition of working? How is it working? Because of the lessen violence in Badhdad? Surge does not have anything to do with it.

Is there political progess? The surge was suppose to provide that. Last time I check, there was no political progress, so exactly HOW is it working?

[pepperp1]

As an Independent I will vote for NO zero Republican for any office in 08, there is something evil and corrupt and sick in the GOP and they should be not be in power.



So the Republicans are claiming victory for the George Bush Surge his political campaign ploy of providing cover to the Republicans in the Senate and Congress to stay the course and that by doing this he out foxed the Dems and delay troop removal until the next President takes office. And they are dancing in the streets patting themselves on the back.

They also agree that soldiers and Iraqi are dying needlessly that the expense was not worth the escalation, that the war has been commanded poorly, that Iraq should never have been invaded that our national safety is at risk our military diverted from security concerns.



WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE%u2026..how is that even remotely a victory, how can an event about Governance for this country that allows soldiers to die for no gain be deemed Politically Successful for any Political Party. I can assure you no Dem or 3 rd Party Presidential political ploy like this would ever be deemed ok by there base, let alone a victory.

CHOOSE LIFE FOR OUR TROOPS call your Senator and tell him 5 years later, 4,000 dead, 34,000 wounded, tens of thousands of Iraqi dead, and 2 Trillion is too much and our troops need to come home.


[phone] for the Senate, and [phone] for the House

[clestes-2009]

MudNut,

try to be less dense than a 2 by 4. I know it is hard. But try reading some and stop listening to Rush and making stupid generalizations based on your limited learning.

[skyk-2009]

You may convince yorself that Amrica is the problem with your tired rhetoric but clear thinking Americans know the problem lies with the radical militants and there leftwing supporters in this country.
Posted by notblue at 11:28 AM : Sep 11, 2007


You think you can change REALITY by spouting this Propaganda and thats what it is. Iraq had NO Weapons and posed NO threat to us. The REAL Enemy, the guy who did attack us and who WILL do so again isn''t in Iraq but has used it to completely rebuild his organization. Iraq is and will forever be the biggest Policy Blunder in this nations history. You think you can stop the radical take over of Iraq? LOL Better look close because they ALREADY control the 2nd largest city in the Country AND the Government we are backing has little to no support. You can dream all you want but, as was the case before, this dog won''t hunt. The goal of the enemy was to suck us into this quagmire, as they did the USSR in Afganistan, keep at us with a million cuts of the razor and bankrupt us. They will NEVER allow YOUR idea of a government to take hold....

[pepperp1]

As an Independent I will vote for NO zero Republican for any office in 08, there is something evil and corrupt and sick in the GOP and they should be not be in power.



So the Republicans are claiming victory for the George Bush Surge his political campaign ploy of providing cover to the Republicans in the Senate and Congress to stay the course and that by doing this he out foxed the Dems and delayed troop removal until the next President takes office.



They also agree that soldiers and Iraqis are dying needlessly, that the expense was not worth the escalation, that the war has been commanded poorly, that Iraq should never have been invaded, that our national safety is at risk our military diverted from security concerns.



WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE%u2026..how is that even remotely a victory, how can an event about Governance for this country that allows soldiers to die for no gain be deemed Politically Successful for any Political Party for any Politician, the Cult that is the GOP is a danger to America.


We need to do our job as the People who are this Government 17 Republican Senators are required to vote with the Democrats to change the mission in Iraq.




CHOOSE LIFE FOR OUR TROOPS call your Senator and tell him 5 years later, 4,000 dead, 34,000 wounded, tens of thousands of Iraqi dead, and 2 Trillion is too much and our troops need to come home.


[phone] for the Senate, and [phone] for the House

[lochlan-2009]

"Iraq Progress Could Be Major ''08 Factor"
That''s an understatment. If they don''t continue the lieing and manipulating of the information on Iraq and the continual forcing of the media to spit their propaganda, we are at risk of seeing the entire GOP party removed from D.C.!! The ignorant southern base is all there is preventing this parties demise.

[toldyouso21]

CBS: OH DO SHUT THE FVCK UP. We have heard and KNOWN this stupid, illegal war would be a factor in the elections. Either get better writers or better titles or just realize that particular headline is like beating a dead horse. "Iraq will be important in the elections..." DUH!!!!! That is about as likely as the "surge" will be continuing for years and the "success date" will keep getting pushed further and further back. Some things are a given--seeing as who is on the right and who is on the left and Iraq is just a money drain for some and a PAYDAY for others.

[westrajc-2009]

"Congress must not only insist that the troops come home NOW..." "...needs to get their head examined!"

I find two things interesting about "ezillyamused''s" comments. First, they suggest people who believe US victory is important have their "heads examined." Second, that we impeach our Pres. and VP "immediately."

What would our enemies think if we followed the first suggestion? Do you believe that Iran and Syria would suddenly respect the sovereign borders of Iraq and stop their proxy war of influence in the region? Do you believe that our losses, both military and civilian would be less over the next five years by pursuing this course of action?

How would impeaching our President and VP strengthen our nation? I''m trying to imagine "President Pelosi" and all the positive International and National initiatives that we would enjoy under her "command."

Another Interesting Phenomenon...

Double-click on "ezillyamused''s" ID in their post. On my system I get a pop up that offers the following:

Spell Check
Did You Mean:
Islamism (Islamic revivalist movement)

Copyright ) 2007 Answers Corporation. All rights reserved.

[lars008-2009]

CHINESE OWN DEMONIC-RATS AND BUY THEM THE ELECTIONS!!!

The tale of shady Chinese Clinton donors avoiding U.S. justice is a familiar one that dates back to the 1996 Clinton-Gore fundraising scandal known as Chinagate. The Clintons took millions in laundered foreign campaign donations from Chinese Communists in exchange for liberalizing trade policy with China, dropping pending indictments against influential Chinese figures, spots on a U.S. trade mission and overnight stays at the White House.
Many of the Chinagate donors were successfully prosecuted even though Clinton Attorney General Janet Reno blocked investigators%u2019 efforts at the Justice Department. More than 100 people connected to the fundraising scandal fled the country, however. Norman Hsu seems to be following their lead.
http://www.corruptionchronicles.com/2007/09/hillary_donor_flees_like_china.html

and you thought gonzales was bad...

[toldyouso21]

Questions that should have been asked of Patreaus:

1. What was Bush''s stated rationale for the surge and what it was to accomplish?

2. The first date to measure success was given as Spring 2007, then Summer 2007, then Fall 2007 and now Winter 2008 with true success slated for 2 to 4 years away or longer, why does the date for even gauging success not stable and keep getting further away?

3.. As violence went down in Iraq, Did it escalate elsewhere and how do those numbers differ or compare?

4. IN 2004, Patreaus was quoting as saying the signs of improvement in Iraq were very good and success was around the corner. Mr. Patreaus your assessment was not accurate then, why should we believe it now?

5. Is the political process in Iraq better or worse since 2006?

6. Various factions want Al Maliki to resign and there are talks of new elections or coups, how has our surged helped that process?

7. What is the state of the infrastructure? Has it improved since 2006? Anywhere?

We already know the answer to these questions and NONE show progress. Anbar is won. calmed and lost on a quarterly basis, as is Fallujah and elsewhere.

[starleo146]

The House and the Senate even if every democrat vote to bring the troops home, do not have enough votes to pass. The same situation in the Senate and they cannot get 60 votes to pass lets quit kidding ourselves here the republicans will vote against it, therefore I suggest since Cheney keeps stalling on these papers to give to the judiciary, we should stall this vote just stall it and stall it on the surveillence vote as well it is obvious Bush wants this vote so until the republicans come out against this war because of the election we should stall.

[pepperp1]

So while most of the Republicans are claiming victory for the George Bush Surge, his political stunt called the SURGE as a campaign ploy of providing cover to the Republicans in the Senate and Congress to stay the course. And that they believe by so doing he has out foxed the Dems and delayed troop removal until the next President takes office. And they believing themselves safe are dancing in the streets patting themselves on the back. ONE Statesman speaks out and says not so fast%u2026..


A prominent Republican on Tuesday said he remains deeply skeptical of the U.S. war strategy in Iraq, comparing the long and bloody military campaign to a farmer risking his savings to plant on a flood plain.


%u2026%u2026..we should acknowledge that we are facing extraordinarily narrow margins for achieving our goals.


Unlike his peers in the Senate, Senator Lugar THANK GOD, ONE Statesman in the REPUBLICAN Congress, who refuses to dance in the blood of our soldiers for a political stunt gain %u2026%u2026..Good Man, Good Man







CHOOSE LIFE FOR OUR TROOPS call your Senator and tell him 5 years later, 4,000 dead, 34,000 wounded, tens of thousands of Iraqi dead, and 2 Trillion is too much and our troops need to come home.


[phone] for the Senate, and [phone] for the House

[lars008-2009]

The fact that 80% of Iraqis would prefer Sadaam back instead of an Illegal U.S. Occupation says it all.
Posted by veteran71 at 12:23 PM : Sep 11, 2007

the war is legal, demonic-rat hero al bore says so...

the resumption of hostilities was only a matter of time since iraq broke the ceasefire agreement.....

blame saddam for iraq%u2026%u2026. Even clintoon and the dems wanted the resumption of hostilities back in 1998

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq''s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

Moreover, no international law can prevent the United States from taking actions to protect its vital interests, when it is manifestly clear that there is a choice to be made between law and survival. I believe, however, that such a choice is not presented in the case of Iraq. Indeed, should we decide to proceed, that action can be justified within the framework of international law rather than outside it. In fact, though a new UN resolution may be helpful in building international consensus, the existing resolutions from 1991 are sufficient from a legal standpoint. - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/gore/gore092302sp.html

[Razzl]

The Iraq occupation has no meaning other than as the symbol of whether the American public has prevailed and overthrown the wicked and dishonorable Bush regime and returned the US government to the control of the people; the occupation serves no viable foreign policy strategy and must be ended in order to sweep away the neocon dictatorship from national politics and reestablish rule by the people. Congress should take all measures to begin dismantling the occupation, as Petraeus'' testimony is irrelevant to the real struggle going on..

[myidoncbs]

Chris Dodd summed up the real situation nicely: "Independent report after report indicates that the whack-a-mole strategy has made this the bloodiest summer of the war. And by the general''s admission, the so-called surge has not achieved its goal of political progress."

That really amounts to "total failure".

At best, all Petraeus can crow about is "limited tactical successes" due to the surge. Due to that "success", he says soon we can bring some of our soldiers home. That''s good news for the few who might get to leave, but it is not a formula for success. If the surge is a "success", how can it be good to end it?

At the same time he says we can bring some of them home, he also says we must "stay the course". This plays well to the re-tarded republican base, but the real goal is to extend this war past the term of office of the sitting president and vice. Having created one of the biggest messes of all time, in the messiest part of the world, repugs are hoping that they can blame the NEXT president (likely a democrat) when he isn''t able to quickly fix the mess that they created. That''s dirty politics at its dirtiest-- playing with the lives of the men and women of the armed services of the united states of america (not to mention the millions of innocent Iraqis that have already been killed, and the uncounted number of dead Americans, who will be killed in the eventual blow-back!).

[tbweb]

The hallmarks of Democracy are power to the people, freedom of expression, majority rule via the Vote and the peaceful transfer of power through elections! In addition, winners and losers unite and join forces and go in the direction of and support the agenda of the winners. This is the way America always did it and its always served us well. Democrats and Independents still play by those rules, Republicans now don''t! When Republicans lose now or are in the minority these days the fight continues with fierce opposition. Republicans divide the nation, practice divisive politics and run dirty swift-boat type campaigns(Kerry,Ford,Clinton) to name a few! Republicans are sore losers and rip America apart with divisive agendas and politics. This new dynamic now added to American politics by Republicans will destroy America! Finally anyone who does not follow their lead are unpatriotic, attacked and demonized.

[mike71067]

The Democrat party is being controlled by the nuts at MoveOn.org. They do not have Americans'' best interest in mind - they are afraid of their puppetmasters at MoveOn.org, and will do all they can to appease them.

Sad, but true. Remember the moderate left? It no longer exists, and has been replaced by the lunatic left-wing fringe.

[toldyouso21]

No one should be surprised that Patreaus wants to stay the course and is touting success as around the corner. He was saying the same thing in 2004. He''s consistent, even if he''s wrong.

[mike71067]

"The fact that 80% of Iraqis would prefer Sadaam back instead of an Illegal U.S. Occupation says it all."
-Posted by veteran71 at 12:23 PM : Sep 11, 2007

What it says is that the Iraqi''s are far more stupid than we ever gave them credit for. Perhaps they deserve 30 years of fear and threat of execution by their former dictator. What a bunch of retarded idiots. If there were ever an argument for pulling our troops out of Iraq, it would be that those muslim morons are not worth defending.

Also, the Bush administration did not commit any impeachable offenses, nor did they commit any "war crimes". Otherwise, leftist clowns like Pelosi and company would have prosecuted them by now. They know they can''t, which is more then I can say about you.

Put down the crack pipe.

[toldyouso21]

Patreaus is NOT dishonest--he just has a one tracked mind. Patraeus is a flawed general.For him, Success in war is the ONLY option. Either git ''er done or die trying...and that goes for all who are under him. He could answer no differently at the hearings and he has the conviction of his beliefs. He also has blinders on and staying the course is his ONLY option--because if he leaves, he failed and that is NOT an option.

No one should be surprised that Patreaus wants to stay the course and is touting success as around the corner. He was saying the same thing in 2004. He''''s consistent, even if he''''s wrong. He will continue to say the same thing if he is at the helm in 2012 or 2016. It is the way he is made. It does not make him right or the sacrifices right--it is just the way he is.
Bush finally struck the war mongeror''s jackpot with this guy.

[lars008-2009]

"The fact that 80% of Iraqis would prefer Sadaam back instead of an Illegal U.S. Occupation says it all."
-Posted by veteran71 at 12:23 PM : Sep 11, 2007

hahahahaha

and what do you think a poll of germany, japan and italy would have said after ww2 haji???

and it is not illegal haji... demonic-rat al bore says so...

[pepperp1]

So while most of the Republicans are claiming victory for the George Bush Surge, his political stunt called the SURGE as a campaign ploy of providing cover to the Republicans in the Senate and Congress to stay the course. And that they believe by so doing he has out foxed the Dems and delayed troop removal until the next President takes office. And they believing themselves safe are dancing in the streets patting themselves on the back. ONE Statesman speaks out and says not so fast%u2026..


A prominent Republican on Tuesday said he remains deeply skeptical of the U.S. war strategy in Iraq, comparing the long and bloody military campaign to a farmer risking his savings to plant on a flood plain.


%u2026%u2026..we should acknowledge that we are facing extraordinarily narrow margins for achieving our goals.









CHOOSE LIFE FOR OUR TROOPS call your Senator and tell him 5 years later, 4,000 dead, 34,000 wounded, tens of thousands of Iraqi dead, and 2 Trillion is too much and our troops need to come home.


[phone] for the Senate, and [phone] for the House


Do not be distracted the facts are simple the math just as simple, the guilty sacrificing our soldiers and their lives unnecessary are the Republicans in the Senate Bush and Petraeus can not keep our troops in Iraq if 17 Republican Senators switch their vote for America and our Troops so they may come home and live long lives with their families.

[tejasdemo]

General Betray Us is lying. The right wingers buy this load because they have no vested interest. It''s not their kids dying in Iraq. It''s(primarily) the poorest among us who fight. Everyone knows poor people dont vote Republican.

Republicans know it but dont have the guts to admit it. In fact, they dont have the guts to admit anything they have been solely wrong on.

It''s really pathetic.

[tejasdemo]

Put down the crack pipe.
Posted by mike71067 at 12:55 PM : Sep 11, 2007

You first.

[imarltool]

Q: General, how many American troops have been killed and wounded in the 6 months prior to the surge?
A: Thousands.
Q: And in the 6 months of the surge?
A: Thousands.
Q: Did 9 more Americans die yesterday?
A:Yes.
Q: That averages 270 dead per month, not counting the wounded?
A:Yes,not counting the wounded.
Q: But we count the wounded, and their spouses, and children, and parents and families, because their lives are forever changed too?
A: Yes.
Q: So the surge is still working?
A: But W told me to say it is working.
Q: Did W go AWOL during his time in the service?
A: Yes.
Q: Anything else?
A: I guess not.

[toldyouso21]

What happens when people believe in the integrity and promise of any institution, and the banker/CEO, broker or other they put at the helm to guide them is honest and sincere but has a secret flaw?

Maybe they are a bit of a gambler and believe the rainbow is just over the bend...so they gamble all of your and every other investor''s money? What happens? You get Enrons, and Silverado and junk bond scandals---billions lost and millions of people destroyed...Not because the brokers were simply dishonest or evil--but because their flaw means they have blinders on--they BELIEVE in and head toward that rainbow--and do it all the more quickly--because it is someone else paying the price. They may even believe in it soooo much that they put themselves and their money on the line...but belief does not negate reality--it either confirms it or refutes it--and one has very bad consequences.

Fast forward to Iraq. So what happens when a nation gambles its treasure and soliders on a ''true believer with blinders?" one who is sure "the success rainbow" is just around the corner. No the next corner...no the next one...okay, then...the next one for sure...well---then the nextest, next, next one.....

What are the results? Where are we going with this? And what kind of person is at the helm? Who are his generals? And what kind of blinders do they wear? What is the reality? How many "next times" do we get--before we ''get it''?

[imarltool]

Hey Mike71067, be sure you and your friends of the Nationalist Extreme Right Republican Party wipe off your Swastikas after all that uber drool.

[toldyouso21]

"his political stunt called the SURGE as a campaign ploy of providing cover to the Republicans in the Senate and Congress to stay the course. And that they believe by so doing he has out foxed the Dems and delayed troop removal until the next President takes office"

I''m sorry, I despise the neo cons tremendously BUT...the very fact that the Dems were outfoxed and easily lied to to go to war. to go along with the torture bill, to push through the patriot act,to ignore the breaching of FISA, to not see the ploys of the DOJ, to be outfoxed in Bush''s appt to the UN and several ambassadorships, to being outfoxed on funding the war, to not being able to pursue impeachment, to being outfoxed in positions they took on immigration, impeachment or war funding and now being outfoxed on the war reports.

The fact is, they seem to get outfoxed alot. Granted we don''t want fascists or evil people in charge of America--but can you honestly say the Democrats have shown they are fit to lead? They take no stand on any issue--(Just what the people want) and cave in at any opportunity if they think the politics are against their stand. Like I said, I loathe the Republicans--but the Dems get very little respect either. Neither group is fit. One is possibly evil, the other is too weak and easily outfoxed.

[clestes-2009]

mike71067

you are as dense as MudNut. You either never read anything beyond Weekly Standard or listen to anyone beyond Rush.

Open you eyes and ears to the TRUTH. I know it is hard, because the truth is going to HURT, but jut try it for a while.

People who are against the continuing surge/war are motivated by facts like

Death of civilians is at an all-time high, because a new civil war has emerged between Shiite sects.

Anbar short term success can be duplicated because no other province is solely Sunni.

Baghdad is silent only because all Sunnis have been purged from it. The rest of the population live under martial law.

AND dispite all other claims, THERE IS STILL NO POLITICAL PROGRESS.

Wrap your midget mind around these few facts and then claim Moveon is behind them.

What an idiot.

[toldyouso21]

It''s like we have to choose between the fox who ravages all of the chickens (republicans) and the dog with mange who can''t get beyond the wormy butt scoot and chewing on his own itchy azz (the Democrats)

I don''t want leaders who are weak enough to take no stand or who always try to go which way the wind blows the hardest --for THAT day) and I don''t want any leaders too lazy and stupid to read the fine print of the legislation that they sign--so that stuff they agree to is horrible and a shock even to them, and I don''t want leaders whose excuse for not standing firm, is that they are outnumbered or cannot take a stand (like standing firm on the funding bill and not blinking in the face of Bush''s veto) and I don''t want a group whose only virtue is that they are not the other guys.


On the other hand, we are all tired of the Nazi wannabeeism of the Republican Party, the blind loyalty bordering on fanatacism and the lust for blood and treasure from the rest of America--the rabid fox or the mangy dog--some choice, huh America?

[actornaught]

Hey, w found found a shill to say what he wants to hear. Well good for him... and al qaeda!

Bad for us, our military, the Iraqi''s, our taxes, our global reputation, etc etc......

[toldyouso21]

Asking Patreaus if the surge is working, is like asking a compulsive gambler/or gambling addict if he thinks his "big win" can happen with his next bet! LMAO

[pepperp1]

Iraq should be a major issue but it is a representation of the broader failure of the Republican reign as an exercise in incompetent bravado, run away spending, massive debt and reckless national security policy. A massive failure of ethical moral Leadership and Governance that at its core has disrespected this countrys People and placed our prosperity in jeopardy.




CHOOSE LIFE FOR OUR TROOPS call your Senator and tell him 5 years later, 4,000 dead, 34,000 wounded, tens of thousands of Iraqi dead, and 2 Trillion is too much CHANGE THE MISSION.


%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026modify the American mission to emphasize the training and advising of Iraqi security forces so that Iraqis would be pushed into the lead and a vast majority of American combat troops could be quickly withdrawn.





[phone] for the Senate, and [phone] for the House


Do not be distracted the facts are simple the math just as simple, the guilty sacrificing our soldiers and their lives unnecessary are the Republicans in the Senate Bush and Petraeus can not keep our troops in Iraq if 17 Republican Senators switch their vote for America and our Troops so they may come home and live long lives with their families.



28 Soldiers dead in 6 days since Bush declared we are kicking arse in IRAQ. Ask Romney if he to would also want to live vicariously through our soldiers since he too did not serve in the last war.

[lars008-2009]

CHINESE OWN DEMONIC-RATS AND BUY THEM THE ELECTIONS!!!

The tale of shady Chinese Clinton donors avoiding U.S. justice is a familiar one that dates back to the 1996 Clinton-Gore fundraising scandal known as Chinagate. The Clintons took millions in laundered foreign campaign donations from Chinese Communists in exchange for liberalizing trade policy with China, dropping pending indictments against influential Chinese figures, spots on a U.S. trade mission and overnight stays at the White House.
Many of the Chinagate donors were successfully prosecuted even though Clinton Attorney General Janet Reno blocked investigators%u2019 efforts at the Justice Department. More than 100 people connected to the fundraising scandal fled the country, however. Norman Hsu seems to be following their lead.
http://www.corruptionchronicles.com/2007/09/hillary_donor_flees_like_china.html