Iraq Debate Flares Before Petraeus Report

Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Says Commander Is "Dead Flat Wrong"

(CBS/AP)  President George W. Bush's war strategy is failing and the top military commander in Iraq is "dead flat wrong" for warning against major changes, the Democratic chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee said Sunday.

Ahead of Monday's crucial testimony by Bush's leading military and political advisers on Iraq, Sen. Joseph Biden indicated that he and other Democrats would persist in efforts to set target dates for bringing troops home.

"The reality is that although there's been some mild security progress, there is in fact no security in Baghdad or Anbar province where I was dealing with the most serious problem, sectarian violence," said Biden, a 2008 presidential candidate who recently returned from Iraq.

Gen. David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker were scheduled to testify before four congressional committees, including Biden's, on Monday and Tuesday. Lawmakers will hear how the commander and the diplomat assess progress in Iraq and their recommendations about the course of war strategy.

Officials familiar with their thinking told The Associated Press over the weekend that the advisers would urge Congress not to make significant changes. Their report will note that while national political progress has been disappointing, security gains in local areas have shown promise, according to the officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were discussing internal deliberations.

Petraeus and Crocker will say the buildup of 30,000 troops, which brings the current U.S. total in Iraq to nearly 170,000, is working better than any previous effort to quell the insurgency and restore stability. The officials also disputed suggestions that Petraeus and Crocker would recommend anything more than a symbolic reduction in troop levels and then only in the spring.

The testimony sets the stage for a nationally televised speech by Bush later in the week about how he will proceed.

There is widespread public unhappiness and growing congressional discomfort with the war. But, a new CBS News/New York Times poll suggests the "surge" strategy may be gaining support among the American people.

The poll finds 35 percent say the surge has made things better, up from 29 percent last month and 19 percent in July. Only 12 percent say it has made things worse, but nearly half see no change in either direction, according to the poll.

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CBS Poll: More Think The 'Surge' Is Helping

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Biden, signaling that tough questioning awaits the pair from majority Democrats and moderate Republicans, said Petraeus' assessment missed the point. The Delaware Democrat said focusing on a political solution, such as by creating more local control, was the only way to foster national reconciliation among warring factions.

"I really respect him, but I think he's dead flat wrong," Biden said.

Biden contended that Bush's main strategy was to buy time and extend the troop presence in Iraq long enough to push the burden onto the next president, who takes office in January 2009, to fix the sectarian strife.

"This president has no plan - how to win and how to leave," Biden said.

Stressing that a political solution was the key, he said, "I will insist on a firm beginning to withdraw the troops and I will insist on a target date to get American combat forces out," except for those necessary to protect U.S. civilians and fight al Qaeda.

Sen. John Kerry, the 2004 Democratic presidential candidate, agreed. "The problem is, if you don't have a deadline and you don't require something of the Iraqis, they're simply going to use our presence as cover for their willingness to delay, which is what they have done month after month after month," he said.

"I think the general will present the facts with respect to the statistics and the tactical successes or situations as he sees them," the Massachusetts Democrat said. "But none of us should be fooled - not the American people, not you in the media, not us in Congress - we should not be fooled into this tactical success debate."

On Face The Nation, Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., said the Bush administration is leaving the ultimate decision on whether to keep troops in Iraq to the next president.

"It's clear that ... this administration is trying to delay the ultimate judgment till the next president gets into office, that's what this president has said, and then let them take the burden on it," Kennedy told Bob Schieffer.

Sen. Arlen Specter, a Pennsylvania Republican, said he respects the judgment of Petraeus but will not blindly follow his assessment.

"We're going to look behind the generalizations that General Petraeus or anybody gives us and probe the very hard facts to see exactly what the situation is," Specter said. "As I've said in the past, unless we see some light at the end of the tunnel here, very closely examining what General Petraeus and others have to say, I think there's a general sense that there needs to be a new policy."

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, said it would be foolish for Congress to try and second-guess commanders on the ground.

In the end, Graham said, the U.S. cannot afford to withdraw prematurely if it is military unwise and risks plunging the region into more chaos.

"If the general tells me down the road we can withdraw troops because of military success, we should all celebrate it," Graham said. "But if politicians in Washington pick an arbitrary date, an arbitrary number to withdraw, it's not going to push Baghdad politicians.

"It's going to re-energize an enemy that's on the mat," he said.

Biden spoke on NBC's "Meet the Press," Kerry appeared on ABC's "This Week," and Graham was on "Fox News Sunday."

[forthepeopl1]

BUSH/CHENEY REGEIM ALL OF THEM NED TO BE TAKEN OUT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER IF WE THE PEOPLE HAVE ANY CHANCE TO SAVE OURSEVLES.

CANT ALL OF YOU SEE WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON, CANT YOU SEE THAT CHENEY/BUSH/ROVE WANTED ALL THE NUKES MOVED, WERE IS ALL THE NEWS ON THAT,THEY WERE CAUGHT RED HANDED BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY TO MISTAKENLY MOVE THEM..NO WAY PERIOD.

AND IF YOU WERE IN THE SERVICE YOU WOULD KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE...

SO GET READY FOR SOMETHING ELSE THAT THIS CHIMP/CHIMPS WILL DO TO AMERICA..

[BlueInWI]

How many commanders on the ground have we had since the occupation of Iraq started? What makes Patraeus correct - the fact that he is the most political and subservient to GW/Cheney?

[iceman_1960]

"I am not a Zionist, nor am I a practicing Jew, but I have a great deal of sympathy for my fellow Jews and a deep concern for the survival of Israel.

The pro-Israel lobby has been remarkably successful in suppressing criticism. Politicians challenge it at their peril because of the lobby''s ability to influence political contributions. Following his criticism of repressive Israeli policy on the West Bank, former president Jimmy Carter has suffered the loss of some of the financial backers of his center.

One of the myths propagated by the enemies of Israel is that there is an all-powerful Zionist conspiracy. That is a false accusation. Nevertheless, that AIPAC has been so successful in suppressing criticism has lent some credence to such false beliefs. Demolishing the wall of silence that has protected AIPAC would help lay them to rest. A debate within the Jewish community, instead of fomenting anti-Semitism, would only help diminish it."

George Soros, April 12, 2007

[iceman_1960]

"Bush''s war in Iraq has done untold damage to the United States. It has impaired our military power and undermined the morale of our armed forces. Our troops were trained to project overwhelming power. They were not trained for occupation duties.

Before the invasion of Iraq, we could project overwhelming power in any part of the world. We cannot do so any more because we are bogged down in Iraq...

The war on terror as defined by President Bush is a one-dimensional presentation of reality. We cannot fight terrorism by military means alone. We can use military force only when we have a known target; but it is the habit of terrorists to keep their whereabouts hidden. To track them down we need the support of the populations amongst whom they hide. Offense is not necessarily the best defense if it offends those whose allegiance we need."

- George Soros, October 2004

[iceman_1960]

"George W. Bush revels in being a war president. His campaign is shamelessly exploiting the fears generated by 9/11. Vice President Cheney is conjuring mushroom clouds into our cities. But fear is a bad counselor; we must resist it wherever it comes from. President Roosevelt had the right idea when he said, "We have nothing to fear but Fear itself.

President Bush has shown that he is incapable of recognizing his mistakes. He insists on making reality conform to his beliefs even at the cost of deceiving himself and deliberately deceiving the public. There is something appealing in the strength of his faith, especially in our troubled time. But the cost is too high. By putting our faith in a President who cannot admit his mistakes we commit ourselves to the wrong policies."

- George Soros, October 2004

[lars008-2009]

Posted by hungry1968 at 09:16 AM : Sep 10, 2007

hahahahaha poor haji... the bosnia war was illegal...

the iraq war is legal

the resumption of hostilities was only a matter of time since iraq broke the ceasefire agreement.....

blame saddam for iraq... Even clintoon and the dems wanted the resumption of hostilities back in 1998

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq''''s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

Moreover, no international law can prevent the United States from taking actions to protect its vital interests, when it is manifestly clear that there is a choice to be made between law and survival. I believe, however, that such a choice is not presented in the case of Iraq. Indeed, should we decide to proceed, that action can be justified within the framework of international law rather than outside it. In fact, though a new UN resolution may be helpful in building international consensus, the existing resolutions from 1991 are sufficient from a legal standpoint. - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/go
re/gore092302sp.html

[brain1014]

s1ckd09,
Great job! These half wit knuckleheads have no concept of reality. They continue to repeat the same arguments over and over without even having the basis for such. All they keep saying over and over is how "Bush" wants to get rich and he had no right to attack Iraq. All the points you made answered their questions and yet they still want to deny and repeat. I for one think these guy''s are just a joke! Anyone who keeps asking for the answer to a question that they already know is bogus has no credibility. This feelfree1 guy and brianbwb are just cnn puppets repeating all the negatives from their favorite anchor''s just to keep this country divided. I certainly don''t mind a logical discussion but when it come''s to bashing our President for doing the job he was elected to do just because they don''t like him crosses the line. All their so-called patriotism and love of country cannot shine through their cloud of hate. I''ll keep an eye on these freaks, hopefully they mend their ways, probably not but hey, theirs still chavez for them to look up too!!!!!!!

[iceman_1960]

USA''s PLEDGE 2 THE WORLD GIVEN BY GEORGE SOROS!!

"I have devoted half my fortune and most of my energies in the last 15 years to promoting the values of democracy and open society all over the world, especially in the former Soviet Empire. After 9/11 I came to feel that those principles need to be defended at home.

The war in Iraq was misconceived from start to finish - if it has a finish. It is a war of choice, not of necessity, as President Bush claims. It goes without saying that Saddam was a tyrant, and it is good to be rid of him. But in invading Iraq as we did, without a second UN resolution, we violated international law. By mistreating and even torturing prisoners, we violated the Geneva conventions. President Bush has boasted that we do not need a permission slip from the international community, but our disregard for international law has endangered our security, particularly the security of our troops." - George Soros

[lars008-2009]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill

It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

A self-respecting nation is ready for anything, including war, except for a renunciation of its option to make war. Simone Weil

If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. Thomas Paine

Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realise that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. Winston Churchill

One ought never to turn one''s back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Winston Churchill

[lars008-2009]

We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. Ben Franklin

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin

We make war that we may live in peace. Aristotle

It is an unfortunate fact that we can secure peace only by preparing for war. John F. Kennedy

There''s a graveyard in northern France where all the dead boys from D-Day are buried. The white crosses reach from one horizon to the other. I remember looking it over and thinking it was a forest of graves. But the rows were like this, dizzying, diagonal, perfectly straight, so after all it wasn''t a forest but an orchard of graves. Nothing to do with nature, unless you count human nature. Barbara Kingsolver

They have not wanted Peace at all; they have wanted to be spared war -- as though the absence of war was the same as peace. Dorothy Thompson

There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy. George Washington

I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain. John Adams

[iceman_1960]

USA''s PLEDGE 2 THE WORLD GIVEN BY GEORGE SOROS!!

"War and occupation create innocent victims. We count the body bags of American soldiers... The rest of the world also looks at the Iraqis who get killed daily. There have been 15 times more. Some were trying to kill our soldiers; far too many were totally innocent, including many women and children. Every innocent death helps the terrorists'' cause by stirring anger against America and bringing them potential recruits." - George Soros

[hungry1968]

lars008


Why do you keep quoting Patrick Henry, JFK, Patton, etc?

Patrick Henry was referring to the new country America being oppressed by the monarchy of Britain and we should stand up for our freedom and liberty.

JFK was referring to the Cold War with the Soviet Union. We should stand our ground and never worry about losing our freedom or liberty.

Patton was referring to brave soldiers that died in battle fighting the German war machine. We entered the war after we were attacked by Japan on December 7, 1941. Our liberties and freedom were attacked by the Axis, so we fought back.

What does any of this have to do with Iraq? What''s happening there, whatever it is, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with OUR liberties or freedoms. Why do you keep trying to make a connection between them? Bush is more like Hitler than he is like JFK or Patrick Henry, and George Patton was one of our greatest military generals while Bush joined the National Guard to avoid serving in Vietnam AND THEN WENT AWOL FROM THAT!!

How can you possibly make any comparisons between those great Americans, and the worst President we''ve ever had?!?!?!

[lars008-2009]

Posted by Iceman_1960 at 08:51 AM : Sep 10, 2007

hey nancy...

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! March 23, 1775 Patrick Henry

[iceman_1960]

USA''s PLEDGE 2 THE WORLD GIVEN BY NANCY PELOSI!!

"Why should we put a plan out? Our plan is to stop him. He must be stopped." - Nancy Pelosi, referring to George W. Bush.

[iceman_1960]

USA''''s PLEDGE 2 THE WORLD GIVEN BY JFK!!

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

[iceman_1960]

"many usa citizens went to canada... in ww2 to get into the war since the usa would not..."
- Posted by lars008 at 08:37 AM : Sep 10, 2007

One flag-waving, pro-war coward went into the Texas Air National Guard as an alternative to fleeing to Canada or "suffering" a self-inflicted wound.

Who was that ?

The hero of lars008: George W. Bush (a fellow General Patton would have slapped in the face.)

In a 1994 interview, Bush stated that he joined the Guard because I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to Canada. So I chose to better myself by learning how to fly airplanes."

[lars008-2009]

Posted by Iceman_1960 at 08:51 AM : Sep 10, 2007

hey nancy...

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! March 23, 1775 Patrick Henry

[iceman_1960]

USA''s PLEDGE 2 THE WORLD GIVEN BY JFK!!

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." - John F. Kennedy

[iceman_1960]

"It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived. George S. Patton"
- Posted by lars008 at 08:37 AM : Sep 10, 2007

I''ll remember this when you get killed fighting in Iraq, lars.

I''ll mention it at your funeral.

[lars008-2009]

Posted by Iceman_1960 at 08:26 AM : Sep 10, 2007

many usa citizens went to canada... in ww2 to get into the war since the usa would not...

It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived. George S. Patton

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! March 23, 1775 Patrick Henry

USA''s PLEDGE 2 THE WORLD GIVEN BY JFK!!

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - John F. Kennedy, Inaugural Address, Jan. 20, 1961

One ought never to turn one''s back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Winston Churchill