On Covering The Kids' Health

The New Republic: Debunking Conservatives' Myths About S-CHIP

(The New Republic) 
Keep in mind one other fact, frequently overlooked (or, at least, not mentioned) in the conservative critiques of the proposed expansion: It's not like S-CHIP is free for these folks. Under both the existing law and the proposed renewal, states are allowed to charge premiums and co-payments for the insurance for all but the poorest beneficiaries. And most do, asking enrollees to contribute anywhere from $5 to $250 a month in premiums, plus cost-sharing payments for most services they receive. It's generally cheaper than medical care through comparable private insurance would be, but the government still asks these people to make some kind of contribution — and, in some cases, a substantial one — all the same.

And yet ... it's true that a few of the people who would end up getting coverage from S-CHIP would have otherwise purchased private insurance, either on their own or through an employer. In these cases, public money would effectively be taking the place of private money that might otherwise have gone towards buying health insurance. Or, to put it more simply, these people would be getting something of a sweetheart deal, courtesy of the taxpayers.

But if you want to expand health insurance, there is simply no way to avoid this effect, which is known in policy circles as "crowd-out." At any given income level — say $80,000 a year — some families have access to affordable health insurance, while others don't. Since it's very difficult to tell who falls into what category, the choice essentially boils down to including some people who don't need help or excluding some people who do. Probably the clearest explanation of this phenomenon I've heard came last week from Peter Orszag, director of the Congressional Budget Office, during a roundtable sponsored by the Alliance for Health Reform:

[T]hink of a lot of kids swimming around in a pool. The uninsured kids are swimming in the same pool as the insured kids, and you can think of providing insurance as throwing kickboards to the kids who are uninsured. It is inevitable that ... some of the kickboards are going to wind up in the hands of kids who were previously insured and some who were uninsured.

Inevitable — and, given the alternatives, acceptable. As I've noted before, crowd-out is even larger for the right's preferred method of helping the uninsured: Tax credits. If your goal is to help people without health insurance get covered, public programs like S-CHIP are pretty much the most cost-effective means we have.

Actually, that's not entirely true. There is one way to avoid crowd-out altogether — one solution in which taxpayer dollars would theoretically subsidize only those people who needed assistance, so that everybody would pay what they could for health insurance but not more. The government could simply require that all Americans buy into one common insurance program, adjusting each person's contribution by income, so that those Americans with more money helped cover the cost of health insurance for those with less.

Does this elegant solution have a name? Why, yes it does. It's called universal health care. I'm all for it. Most conservatives, alas, are not.

[john0211]

Many of your politicians have received a great deal of money in contributions from Doctors, Pharmaceutical companies, Insurance Companies, and Hospitals. And promises of even more money later. And more money when they leave office. To do the wrong thing. The corrupt thing. The immoral thing.

To let the Doctors, Pharmaceutical companies, Insurance Companies, and Hospitals. Continue to rape the American people. Even the little children, and babies. By refusing to pass Universal National Health Care For All. Like every other developed, civilized country in the world has done.

You, the American people have to hold your politicians accountable for the continuation of this CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY, and AMERICA. Each of you individually, and collectively. YOU HAVE THE POWER. USE IT. sickocure.org, michaelmoore.com

God Bless You...

[john0211]

They, (the Doctors, Pharmaceutical companies, Insurance Companies, Hospitals, and politicians) wont answer you. They know I''ll incinerate their LIES and distortions with the truth. About their raping, and murder of the American people for greed, and PROFIT. :-(

You have to take the profit motive out of Health care. Caring for sick people is not about becoming wealthy. It''s about public service. In the US. Medical practice has become a perversion of "champaign wishes, and caviar dreams." Think about it.

National Health Care is a no-brainer. It''s time for action. Find out if your senator or congressman is backing National Health Care HR 676. And prepare to file and run against them if they don''t get HR 676 passed pronto! See sickocure.org. And michaelmoore.com

And don''t worry that you might not be good enough. Any man or woman that supports National Health Care for all is a better person than any politician that doesn''t support National Health Care will ever be. No matter how big the politicians name may be. Do it. NOW!

Make sure you know your filing date. And filing fee. This is bigger than personal fears any of you may have about your inadequacy. You can do this. You must do this. Run if you have to. Run in teams if you have to. Just make sure you take out your representative if they don''t back quick passage of HR 676. Now!

It''s not ok for children, babies, and other Americans to die for lack of affordable health care in America. It''s a disgrace.

Best of luck.

[the74blaster]

I''''ll answer you the74blaster, and the rest of you that just salivate at the prospect of even more government control over peoples lives.

Posted by interested4

You make some good points, and the best one of all is how people run off to the doctor or an emergency room when rest and letting the cold or flu run its course solves the problem. However, there are some assumptions you made that do not reflect my beliefs.

I agree with your point regarding people living beyond their means. Consider the the ever increasing numbers of foreclosures as evidence that supports your point.

However, have you ever considered what would happen if middle-class America suddenly decided to live within their means? Our economy to a large extent is being driven by people taking out credit so they can continue living beyond their means. However, there also people taking out credit to survive.

My second point is government waste and inefficeincies have been a problem regardless of what party controls the executive branch or congress. Having a large government agency to control healthcare is obviously not the ideal solution. What it comes down to is a simple question of priorities.

Is it better to waste 500 billion in Iraq where there is no return on the taxpayers investment or is it better to use it here with a properly managed healthcare plan to help Americans who have a real need?

If you have a better solution please post it! I will read it with an open mind.

[john0211]

In anticipation of coming changes in our health care system. Thousands of patients are being killed at a fevered pitch. And millions injured, and poisoned with unnecessary medications, medical procedures, and surgery''s. In an orgy of greed, and profiteering a head of proposed changes to our current disgraceful health care system.

I advise you to be careful of taking any recommended medical care at this time without doing your home work. And getting a good independent 2nd, or 3rd opinion. Especially if you have good insurance coverage.

[john0211]

All of this horror, and nightmare is happening in the RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. And supposedly the most developed country in the world. AMERICA!!!! THE UNITED STATES!!!

A country that spends more on health care than any other country in the world. But has 45-60 million Americans with no health care.

A country that has 18000 people a year die!! because of a lack of health care. Millions raped, mutilated, crippled, and injured for greed, and profit!!!!!!!

A country that calls it''s self the most Christian in the world!!!

A country that makes up less than 2-4% of the world population. But purchases, and consumes approx 50% of all pharmaceuticals world wide!!!!!!!!!

A country where medical bills are the #1 reason for bankruptcy''s, and financial destruction. Most of whom had health insurance.!!!!!

A country that has approx 600 women die yearly from complications of pregnancy. And millions more are injured, and mutilated for life without medical necessity. Just for profit.

A country where Millions of emotionally, and mentally ill Americans are poisoned with toxic cocktails of pharmaceutical poisons for profit.

A country with a skyrocketing rate of death, and injury from accidents like falling, tripping, and other accidents by patients impaired on legal pharmaceutical poisons.

[wogerwabbit]

National health care would put a lot of corporate crooks out of business, so it''ll never happen until we take control of our country back from the corporate financed, monied elite, neocon shadow government that has metastasized into the life threatening cancer on our republic it has become today.

[john0211]

It''s alarming. Americans are being poisoned, raped, crippled, mutilated, and killed at an alarming rate with pharmaceutical poisons. And injured with medical devices. Along with ranking #37 in the world in quality of health care. Life expectancy continues to drop dramatically. Americans rank 42nd in life expectancy. Down over 300% in just two decades of pharmaceutical poisoning, and medical device injury''s. Infant death rates in America equal to a third world country. Childhood illness, and death rates skyrocketing. And childhood life expectancy plummeting down faster than their parents precipitous decline.

All prescription pharmaceuticals are foremost poisons. And potentially highly toxic. This is supposed to be the reason that the FDA makes them prescription only. So that you will have highly trained medical supervision to keep you from being injured by these poisonous toxic effects while you use them. Unfortunately most US doctors have completely abandoned this critical responsibility. And instead continue to push highly toxic, less proven poisonous pharmaceuticals on unsuspecting patients for greed, and profit.

No patient should be denied safe and effective relief of their pain and suffering. Nor denied access to the best drugs, and medical technology available to relive suffering. And aid healing. But many doctors use this legitimate need of a few patients. To justify poisoning millions of other patients with no legitimate need for such toxic, and expensive poisons.

[interested4]

I''ll answer you the74blaster, and the rest of you that just salivate at the prospect of even more government control over peoples lives. Although too complex to answer in full, here are a couple very sound reasons:

1. There are truly people in need, but someone with a 200K mortgage probably isn''t one of them. The same people who moan over health care costs are often overextended on credit, and have lives full of things they don''t actually NEED. If more people lived within their means, they might have the money for health care.

2. The health insurance idustry itself. So many people today take for granted that hhealth care is some kind of "right". It''s not. It never has been. And by overutilization of health services, along with the general ignorace of actual costs of care that things like low co-pays encourage such ignorance and over-utilization, costs have been driven through the roof.

I know people who run to the doctor with even the slightest sniffle. If they realized how much impact that had on the sytem overall, and that costs could be reduced simply by excersing some common sense (on a mass scale, of course), maybe they would be more discriminating in their use of the system.

Of course, sound economics and multiple examples of government funded health care nightmares in some other countries does nothing to stop those who would prefer to give even more control to beuaracracies that they fault for incompetence in almost all other arenas.

[the74blaster]

Apparently, president Bush acts on his priorities and sticks to his agenda regardless of the political opposition.

His actions speak louder than words. Our president would rather spend taxpayer money in Iraq or on corporate welfare and not on American families who need assistance with healthcare.

How many families in the middle class can afford to spend over a $ 1,000 per month, $ 1,700 a month for a 200K mortgage, buy food, pay utilities and still have disposable income after paying for gas?

Does any Bush supporter care to address my question?

[john0211]

These people against universal National Health Care For All (HR 676) arent really concerned about what it would cost. They know we can easily afford it. And it would cost much less than what we pay now.

They arent worried about socialism. Or government taking over controls of our lives. They know that will never happen. Having guaranteed health care will just make America stronger, and more free. Because people will be healthier.

Americans can take more chances. And change jobs without worry over loss of health care. Or being bankrupted, and financially destroyed if they get sick. Or have an accident.

Parents can let children go out to play. And let them participate in sports. Without fear of financial destruction if the child gets injured or hurt. No more children will die from a tooth ache that turns into an abscess and destroys their brain before the parents can get help for the child.

Sounds beautiful doesn''t it. And you can have it. But you have to act now! Get on your politician''s. Or run against them if you have too. See sickocure.org

These people opposed to universal health care for all. Are the people who have raped you. Your family''s. And your loved ones with, and through medical care for years. Doctors. Pharmaceutical company''s, insurance company''s, hospitals, and politician''s.

Forget about these bums. Take what is yours. And make your politicians give you what you want. Or be thrown out of office by the seat of their pants.

Love.... With a clinched fist.

[rhs648]

correction

Extending government paid health insurance to children is a backdoor approach to a national healthcare program. It is hard to say no to anything that affects children. National healthcare advocates know this. What politician wants to look like a bad guy?
Posted by rhs648

[rhs648]

Extending government health paid insurance to children is a backdoor approach to a national healthcare program. It is hard to say no to anything that affects children. National healthcare advocates know this. What politician wants to look like a bad guy.

[lorinkundert]

"This bill essentially extends a welfare benefit to middle-class households,"

Exactly what the Socialists want, they already have rendered the poor in the inner cities to a state of where they can''t exist without someone telling them what to do and feeding them, New Orleans was a fine example of the new progressive society, Now it''s time to absorb the middle class leaving the elite.