A 500-Mile Commute Without Gasoline?

Secretive Tech Startup Makes Bold Promises About The Future Of Electric Cars

(CBS/AP)  Millions of inventions pass quietly through the U.S. patent office each year. Patent No. 7,033,406 did, too, until energy insiders spotted six words in the filing that sounded like a death knell for the internal combustion engine.

An Austin-based startup called EEStor promised "technologies for replacement of electrochemical batteries," meaning a motorist could plug in a car for five minutes and drive 500 miles roundtrip between Dallas and Houston without gasoline.

By contrast, some plug-in hybrids on the horizon would require motorists to charge their cars in a wall outlet overnight and promise only 50 miles of gasoline-free commute. And the popular hybrids on the road today still depend heavily on fossil fuels.

"It's a paradigm shift," said Ian Clifford, chief executive of Toronto-based ZENN Motor Co., which has licensed EEStor's invention. "The Achilles' heel to the electric car industry has been energy storage. By all rights, this would make internal combustion engines unnecessary."

Clifford's company bought rights to EEStor's technology in August 2005 and expects EEStor to start shipping the battery replacement later this year for use in ZENN Motor's short-range, low-speed vehicles.

The technology also could help invigorate the renewable-energy sector by providing efficient, lightning-fast storage for solar power, or, on a small scale, a flash-charge for cell phones and laptops.

Skeptics, though, fear the claims stretch the bounds of existing technology to the point of alchemy.

"We've been trying to make this type of thing for 20 years and no one has been able to do it," said Robert Hebner, director of the University of Texas Center for Electromechanics. "Depending on who you believe, they're at or beyond the limit of what is possible."

EEStor's secret ingredient is a material sandwiched between thousands of wafer-thin metal sheets, like a series of foil-and-paper gum wrappers stacked on top of each other. Charged particles stick to the metal sheets and move quickly across EEStor's proprietary material.

The result is an ultracapacitor, a battery-like device that stores and releases energy quickly.

Batteries rely on chemical reactions to store energy but can take hours to charge and release energy. The simplest capacitors found in computers and radios hold less energy but can charge or discharge instantly. Ultracapacitors take the best of both, stacking capacitors to increase capacity while maintaining the speed of simple capacitors.

Hebner said vehicles require bursts of energy to accelerate, a task better suited for capacitors than batteries.

"The idea of getting rid of the batteries and putting in capacitors is to get more power back and get it back faster," Hebner said.

But he said nothing close to EEStor's claim exists today.

For years, EEStor has tried to fly beneath the radar in the competitive industry for alternative energy, content with a phone-book listing and a handful of cryptic press releases.

Yet the speculation and skepticism have continued, fueled by the company's original assertion of making batteries obsolete - a claim that still resonates loudly for a company that rarely speaks, including declining an interview with The Associated Press.

[gopack443]

Hope it works

[rnekich]

Will it work in Detroit when it''s 16 below zerow and your looking for someone to jump your battery with jumper cables?

[kaiyo4u]

All you calculating your math trying to look intelligent you pump gas just like me to save a few bucks so your smarts impresive but of no value.
Posted by crzmeat at 09:55 PM : Sep 04, 2007

Really...? You have to do the math in order to see if it viable. I happen to be an electrician. So this is interesting to me.
Yes I do pump gas, but if there were a viable alternative that was cheaper than gas, you bet I would go for it.

[Krazcarl]

Oh by the way the electric car killed itself the batteries have to be desposed of after not that many miles there toxic the scrap yard doesn''t want them plus replacement the cost of new car you save nothing. Batteries the problem that''s why this article pipe dream, wish it were true is not true. There would be men laughing all the way to the bank thers just a couple of guys ripping the system.

[Krazcarl]

thanks bobnjersy at. good point but will it ever get off the table haven''t seen any demos just pictures of what could be. This is trash has nothing to do with big oil just sorry inventivness another pipe dream they want millions for. Don''t you people realize that if this tech was real it won''t be millions but billions. All you calculating your math trying to look intelligent you pump gas just like me to save a few bucks so your smarts impresive but of no value.

[heyitsme_76]

Just watch the movie "Who killed the Elctric car ?" and you''ll know what the future holds for this new invention.. NONE..

[monkfellow]

well, this car will most CERTAINLY be bought enmasse by the big three and left in the desert with all those tankers which dropped off the excess gasoline that could have kept prices low in the 70s,during the oil embargo...
yea, right..

[rray52]

A HV capacitor in a CRT TV is impressive when they short, I would hate to see one of these ultra-capacitors let go. Actually it might be fun from a distance.

[bobgee_1999]

The implications for a fossil-fuel free society are staggering in more than one area. Technology of this sort, if it is ever truly developed and utilized, would effectively send Middle-eastern tyrants back to well-deserved obscurity. It will be amazing how quickly America loses interest in anything that occurs in the entire region.

[kaiyo4u]

It''s called voltage drop. DC cannot be transformed into different voltages like AC can. With an AC distrubution system, boost transformers can be place along the line to boost the voltage back to it''s original force until it gets near enough to a power plant. Voltage grows weaker the farther it goes down a line. We have to figure voltage drop into a load at about 200 ft (depending on the voltage) and size our wire accordingly. I''m talking about 120/240V. The distance is greater for higher voltages...

[kaiyo4u]

My bob boo on the last post, I juxtaposed a decimal place.... It should read almost 30,000V.
Amtrak was going to use electric similar to the euro rail lines. Using overhead lines, they wouldn''t need to use diesel to power their trains. Passenger trains are a lot lighter than freight trains, but I suspect the voltage would have to have been up there. I know the MAX in Portland uses 600V DC to power their lightrail trains... There is a problem with DC though.

[kaiyo4u]

According to my conversion program 4000 HP = 2982.8 KW.
Is this the motor rating or the engine rating for the locomotive? It is my understanding they use DC current. Correct me if I am wrong in this. DC is known to have more torque (especially low end) and more consistent operations at varying voltages. According to what was stated in your post, the voltage would equal almost 300,000 volts (dividing 2,982,800W by 100A). That''s not a voltage you have in an enclosed area with people around it. The arc factors would be that of lightning.

[davideo2]

Ahh! Good catch Kaiyo4u!

darkfyreaol said that his 4000 horsepower engine uses 80 amps. 4000 hp X 746 watts/hp = 2,984,000 watts. 2,984,000 W / 80 Amps = 37,300 Volts!

So, he actually gave us the answer but misled us with the little 80 amps number. Wow, 37KV. I wouldn''t have guessed that. I wonder if the 80 amps is correct.

Anyhow, that gives us a good reality check as to why Amtrak didn''t go electric! How do you store enough electricity to get 3 MILLION watts?

[kaiyo4u]

If you''''ll look over at the locomotive yard..It takes about 80amps of power for a 4,000hp diesel locomotive to get the cars moving. Let''''s not forget that each car weighs more than 90 tons. An average train has about 10 cars..that''''s one locomotive spending 80-100 amps of energy to move 900 tons of steel. Now, look at your 20 amp outlet. 20 amps seems like a hell of a lot of energy to be wasting on a blow dryer, by comparison..
Posted by darkfyreaol at 03:08 PM : Sep 04, 2007

I''m not familiar with locomotives, but I do know they are powered by diesel generators. What voltage are we talking here? An electric motor has (generally) a lot more torque than an engine.
If it is only taking 80 to 100 amps to move those cars, what voltage are they using? 460V, 4160V? I know you can do a lot more with higher voltages which is why they are common in industry. How big are the motors that the locomotives use? What is their horsepower rating? Amtrak had the option to switch to electric back in the 70''s and didn''t go through with it. So we''re still using fossil fuels to power trains.

[bobnjersey]

forget the capacitor ... all you need is air.

http://www.theaircar.com/

[libsluvsuvs]

I bet the idea of a car that will cut gas consumption dramatically really scares the big oil, their investors and a lot of politicians!
Posted by rudy654 at 03:41 PM : Sep 04, 2007
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I am sure it does..it would scare people world wide..from Saudi Arabia all the way to Velenzuela.
But if we can just remain focus on the "green" movement. when we get this going, the sheer weigth of the demand for change, it would be unstoppable. (that includes the psuedo-no war for oil poser liberals..if you are that sincere about this whole issue and not just riding allong with the ''fad'')

[rudy654-2009]

I bet the idea of a car that will cut gas consumption dramatically really scares the big oil, their investors and a lot of politicians!

[davideo2]

darkfyreaol: Something''s amiss in your energy math. How did you come up with 200 watts for riding your bike across the country.

I did the math on cbscrash07''s 2400 Watts (which is the electrical code rating for most home outlets) and found this:

2400 W for 5 mins = 720,000 Watt-Seconds
which = 720,000 joules.

720,000 joules / 4.184 joules per calorie = 172 K-calories. The average person requires 2000 to 3000 K-calories in their diet.

You said your locomotive uses 80 amps but you did not tell us how much energy that is because power is equal to amps x volts. Many state of the art CPU chips use close to 80 amps but only at a voltage of 1.2 volts (96 watts) and we certainly know they don''t have the power to pull any trains! Tell us the voltage applied to the locomotive motors and we can get down to some meaningful facts.

[gmcnally2]

Again, must be a paranoid day for me. But it seems like the oil industry will use this kind of story to say,
''We will not expand our refining capabilities.''

Then, EEstor will say, ''Oops, we failed, sorry, that is why we tried to be so secretive.''

Then, big oil wins again as prices (and profits) skyrocket with no practical solution or relief.

If EEstor turns out to be a flop, the people in charge should be prosecuted for the billions they will have cost the public.

[Krazcarl]

With no actual working product even claims are less than exciting a 4 hour charge after 50 miles what value is that to the average man. But if we give them millions there on there way sorry sounds like a total scam with a possibility of a maybe. When I was a young man on the street I learned never put your money into what you can''t see. In the 70''s there was a big perprtual motion machine scam where many lost cash. A few CAD drawings with a few graphs is not a product. I can see that the posters never bought contraband in thier younger day. These promices have been floating since the first oil embargo. Remember no working product.