GENEVA, Sept. 3, 2007

U.S. Workers World's Most Productive

United Nations Report Says Longer Hours Worked, More Achieved Per Hour

  • Ford Motor Company employees work on an assembly line at the Chicago Assembly Plant in this June 22, 2007 file photo. A new U.N. report says only Norwegian workers top Americans' output per working hour. Photo

    Ford Motor Company employees work on an assembly line at the Chicago Assembly Plant in this June 22, 2007 file photo. A new U.N. report says only Norwegian workers top Americans' output per working hour.  (AP Photo/M. Spencer Green, File)

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(AP)  American workers stay longer in the office, at the factory or on the farm than their counterparts in Europe and most other rich nations, and they produce more per person over the year.

They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians, according to a U.N. report released Monday, which said the United States "leads the world in labor productivity."

Each U.S. worker produces $63,885 of wealth per year, more than their counterparts in all other countries, the International Labor Organization said in its report. Ireland comes in second at $55,986, ahead of Luxembourg, $55,641; Belgium, $55,235; and France, $54,609.

The productivity figure is found by dividing the country's gross domestic product by the number of people employed. The U.N. report is based on 2006 figures for many countries, or the most recent available.

Only part of the U.S. productivity growth, which has outpaced that of many other developed economies, can be explained by the longer hours Americans are putting in, the ILO said.

The U.S., according to the report, also beats all 27 nations in the European Union, Japan and Switzerland in the amount of wealth created per hour of work - a second key measure of productivity.

Norway, which is not an EU member, generates the most output per working hour, $37.99, a figure inflated by the country's billions of dollars in oil exports and high prices for goods at home. The U.S. is second at $35.63, about a half-dollar ahead of third-placed France.

Seven years ago, French workers produced over a dollar more on average than their American counterparts. The country led the U.S. in hourly productivity from 1994 to 2003.

The U.S. employee put in an average 1,804 hours of work in 2006, the report said. That compared with 1,407.1 hours for the Norwegian worker, and 1,564.4 for the French.

It pales, however, in comparison with the annual hours worked per person in Asia, where seven economies - South Korea, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Hong Kong, China, Malaysia and Thailand - surpassed 2,200 average hours per worker. But those countries had lower productivity rates.

America's increased productivity "has to do with the ICT (information and communication technologies) revolution, with the way the U.S. organizes companies, with the high level of competition in the country, with the extension of trade and investment abroad," said Jose Manuel Salazar, the ILO's head of employment.

The ILO report warned that the widening of the gap between leaders such as the U.S. and poorer nations has been even more dramatic.

Laborers from regions such as southeast Asia, Latin America and the Middle East have the potential to create more wealth, but are being held back by a lack of investment in training, equipment and technology, the agency said.

In sub-Saharan Africa, workers are only about a twelfth as productive as those in developed countries, the report said.

"The huge gap in productivity and wealth is cause for great concern," ILO Director-General Juan Somavia said, adding that it was important to raise productivity levels of the lowest-paid workers in the world's poorest countries.

China and other East Asian countries are catching up quickest with Western countries. Productivity in the region has doubled in the past decade and is accelerating faster than anywhere else, the report said.

But they still have a long way to go: workers in East Asia are still only about a fifth as productive as laborers in industrialized countries.

The vast differences among China's sectors tell part of the story. Whereas a Chinese industrial worker produces $12,642 worth of output - almost eight times more than in 1980 - a laborer in the farm and fisheries sector contributes a paltry $910 to gross domestic product.

The difference is much less pronounced in the United States, where a manufacturing employee produced an unprecedented $104,606 of value in 2005. An American farm laborer, meanwhile, created $52,585 worth of output, down 10 percent from seven years ago, when U.S. agricultural productivity peaked.

© MMVII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

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by sirgregoire-2009 September 3, 2007 6:11 AM PDT
The problem is that the dollar is undervalued in relationship to the Euro. If the dollar bought 1.10 Euros as it did 7 years ago, instead of 0.73 Euros today, the numbers would be different.
Sorry to burst your bubble...
Reply to this comment
by slim1h2o September 3, 2007 6:31 AM PDT
....Well this story makes me feel better,....NOT!

And how are we paid back for our hard work? Health care costs are thru the roof, Thanks to the greedy Insurance Co''s and doctors that sit idly by,....

Out sourcing of our jobs by greedy business owners out for the big bucks,....

And we can''t forget the Federal Gov''t with NAFTA, TAXING us to death and we get nothing for our money, except for shrub and his bull$hit. Oh and don''t forget the illegals crossing the border, they just love being here, driving down our productivity and wages.

Its time for a new world order all right, Its time for the middle class to take it''s future back before it''s too late!
Reply to this comment
by slim1h2o September 3, 2007 6:36 AM PDT
Teddy had it so right! Not Kennedy, but Roosevelt!

Theodore Roosevelt''''''''s ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907:

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person''''''''s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something
else also, isn''''''''t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

The first requisite of a good citizen in this republic of ours is that he shall be able and willing to pull his own weight. Theodore Roosevelt

Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or leave the country. Theodore Roosevelt

Posted by Lars
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by perception5 September 3, 2007 7:45 AM PDT
Thank you Mr. President and this great "GOP" economy for all these gains.

Wouldn''t have the same results under a Socialist Democrat government. Especially with their mob-run union pals.

Productivity suffers when under "union" influence because mob-run unions fight change.

President Bush thanks for our great economy! Now if we could get the Democrats who control America''s "deep blue" cities to "raise up" the poor people under "their" control we would be doing great.
Reply to this comment
by mcvet September 3, 2007 8:00 AM PDT
President Bush thanks for our great economy! Now if we could get the Democrats who control America''''s "deep blue" cities to "raise up" the poor people under "their" control we would be doing great.
Posted by perception5 at 07:45 AM : Sep 03, 2007
+ report abuse

Hey SWASTIKA Hugger WHO do you think makes up those UNIONS you hate so bad? Yep that''s right you pathetic LOSER, they are AMERICAN''s. You simple minded Toe Tappers have cut their throats and made them DEAD LAST in the entire world in their Standard of Living yet this report shows that those same UNION WORKERS are the most productive in the entire world. Care to explain that one? You fools have failed and failed completely on EVERY front in EVERY way but one... you ability to BLAME and EXCUSE! Sieg Heil Bush!!
Reply to this comment
by usayesterday September 3, 2007 8:31 AM PDT
This report is clearly nothing to be proud of!

In the past two decades the following has happened that has FORCED Americans to work harder... not smarter:

1. American corporations lay off thousands of employees, each, to bolster their annual bonuses, (using the excuse that they have to "bolster the bottom line", sadly, it''s only the executives'' bottom line, not the company''s)

2. Out of pure fear of losing one''s job and/or goal to show one''s value (in hopes of remaining employed), one is forced to put in more hours at work, whether they want to or not. A recent study showed that Americans take the least amount of vacation time over any other industrialized nation, for the reasons I mentioned above.

3. Since severe cuts have been made at virtually every American corporation, many workers have been forced to take on the job duties of those who have been laid-off, but with little or no pay increase.

These are the reasons why America has some of the most "productive" workers in the world. The reasons above are quite obvious to anyone who doesn''t have their head up their A$$! (which obviously does not include "perception5")
Reply to this comment
by indivthinker September 3, 2007 8:43 AM PDT
And how are we paid back for our hard work? Health care costs are thru the roof, Thanks to the greedy Insurance Co''''s and doctors that sit idly by,....
Posted by slim1h2o at 06:31 AM : Sep 03, 2007

Excuse me, you ******, but the insurance company is not greedy, and neither are the doctors. Three things drive up the costs of your insurance. One is stupid malpractice lawsuits. "The Doctor did this or didn''t do this... let''s sue for two million dollars."
It''s idiots like you that drive up the cost, not people in the medical sector like me (I am heading to med school a year from now).

The second reason is the fact that America''s medical technology and drug technology is the best in the world. You don''t actually expect to pay five dollars for an MRI, do you? It costs a lot of money to operate it and to know how to operate it, so of course you aren''t going to get a service like that for cheap. If you want cheap health care, stop using the services that cost a lot of money!
Third, the fact that hospitals are not allowed to turn someone away forces health prices to go up. Some random dude without insurance can walk in there with a broken arm and demand to be treated. Of course, he isn''t going to be paying for that now, is he? Not for a very long time... so there is more of a deficite that the health care industry has to make up for.

WE ARE NOT GREEDY. THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY IS NOT MAKING MUCH AT ALL. Hospitals have gone out of business because of ******* like you.
Reply to this comment
by armandbeni September 3, 2007 8:47 AM PDT
I find it interesting that the American Farm Worker is producing 10% less than 7 years ago. I would think that all these "hard working" illegals would have raised that number not lowered it. Oh yeah thats right the article is about American Workers working hard not Mexican workers working hard. If Mexican workers worked hard then Mexicans wouldn''t be coming here for a free ride.
Reply to this comment
by slim1h2o September 3, 2007 8:56 AM PDT
Posted by indivthinker at 08:43 AM : Sep 03, 2007

Well I rest my case, the Medical Industry is being "Dumbed down". As evidence of this guy spewing names at me.

I guess if you can''t beat''em, call''em names, Eh buddy?
Reply to this comment
by Krazcarl September 3, 2007 8:56 AM PDT
Well good news lazy organized workers are the most productive this goes against everything we''ve been told the last century, Why is every tool made overseas????
Reply to this comment
by slim1h2o September 3, 2007 9:07 AM PDT
WE ARE NOT GREEDY. THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY IS NOT MAKING MUCH AT ALL. Hospitals have gone out of business because of ******* like you.
Posted by indivthinker at 08:43 AM : Sep 03, 2007

Answer this, there Sparky, If the Industry is losing money, Where is it going? Medical bills are through the roof And How am I responsible for the hospitals losing money and going out of business?
Reply to this comment
by gkc99 September 3, 2007 9:12 AM PDT
This high productivity is at odds with the decreasing financial position of the average American family since the 1960s. Who is getting the benefit of all the productivity? Not the workers, with our pathetic 2 weeks vacation (if lucky), minimal benefits (if lucky), and job insecurity.

Clearly, it is going to Bushit''s Billionaires.

Americans must be the biggest dupes and stupes on the planet to tolerate this. The fascists who own and operate America are very good at divide and conquer, keeping us at each others'' throats as they plunder the treasury.

Perhaps a few of them hanging from the streetlights might improve the situation.
Reply to this comment
by gkc99 September 3, 2007 9:15 AM PDT
"WE ARE NOT GREEDY. THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY IS NOT MAKING MUCH AT ALL. Hospitals have gone out of business because of ******* like you."
Posted by indivthinker


You ignore the huge profits being sucked out of the medical industry by the insurers and managers of health care. For example, William McGuire of United Health, Minneapolis, MN, reportedly took personal compensation in excess of $240 million last year.

That is $240 million paid by insurance ratepayers that did not go to health care providers. It is not necessarily the doctors and med techs who are getting rich off this. In fact, M.D.s have experienced a drop in income. It goes to the United Healths of this country.

It''s time for some kind of socialized medicine to remove the profit motive from providing medical care.
Reply to this comment
by zootallures2 September 3, 2007 9:35 AM PDT
Funny???? Why do I think I hear my boss''s sarcastic laughter?
Reply to this comment
by zootallures2 September 3, 2007 9:39 AM PDT
WE ARE NOT GREEDY. THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY IS NOT MAKING MUCH AT ALL. Hospitals have gone out of business because of ******* like you.
Posted by indivthinker at 08:43 AM : Sep 03, 2007

Cleans ''em right out and keeps kittie nice and healthy, heh! Maybe your hospitals just don''t know good feminine hygene...lol
Reply to this comment
by drinuk September 3, 2007 9:44 AM PDT
So...If we are the most productive, why are we not producing far more economical smaller vehicles and attacking those markets which have been successfully
occupied by both Europe and Japan? I would suggest that the company executives don''t really give a dam as long as the workers are being shafted and working for peanuts. Their big salaries and bonus insulates them from expensive fuel. Same old story, one law for the workers another for Corporate America.
Reply to this comment
by zootallures2 September 3, 2007 9:47 AM PDT
American workers stay longer in the office, at the factory or on the farm than their counterparts in Europe and most other rich nations...

That''s usaully were we find our mistress to cheat with. Wanna call it overtime go a head, but I''m doing what I love.
Reply to this comment
by zootallures2 September 3, 2007 9:53 AM PDT
I think you added in their demolition crews, prison labor, ''guest workers'', and military... didn''t you!
Reply to this comment
by emma915 September 3, 2007 10:31 AM PDT
Seems to me that this article might be the script for a Saturday Night Live skit. . . . I''m still waiting for the punch line. . . .
Reply to this comment
by my2centss September 3, 2007 11:13 AM PDT
Just think, lazy Americans are the most productive. So if we are lazy, what are the rest of the world called?
Reply to this comment
by fairandbal September 3, 2007 11:27 AM PDT
WE ARE NOT GREEDY. THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY IS NOT MAKING MUCH AT ALL. Hospitals have gone out of business because of ******* like you.
Posted by indivthinker at 08:43 AM : Sep 03, 2007

What?? Read the facts buddy. For example, the highest paid CEO in Minnesota is from United Health. He earns $127 Million/year, and second place is not even close. So don''t tell me about the health care industry not making much. They''re robbing us blind.
Reply to this comment
by omega39-2009 September 3, 2007 12:58 PM PDT
If we are so productive, why are we hemorrhaging jobs to every third world economy in the world? Why are we importing foreigners by the thousands to replace the American worker? We work longer hours with fewer benefits than most of the industrialized world, this is how our corporate backed politicians reward us.
Reply to this comment
by standlee5 September 3, 2007 1:31 PM PDT
It would be easy to BUY health insurance if we''d quit importing cheap labor. we could demand higher wages.
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by rmsdm4 September 3, 2007 2:04 PM PDT
What would be interesting is to know the productivity of union versus non union workers. I would be willing to be non union is MUCH higher.
Reply to this comment
by jsutaguy September 3, 2007 2:46 PM PDT
US productivity is simply the measure of how much the average US worker is getting screwed by CEOs and the politicians that run our "democracy".
Highly skilled jobs, knowledge, and competitive advantage across all segments of the US economy are being given to undertrained third world workers by the thousands every month, completely at the expense of US families and workers. US CEOs and corporate executives continue to increase the amount they pay themselves, so they can buy their 5th or 6th mansion on the beach, while their employees continue to have their health benefits, pension benefits, wages, and job security destroyed to pay for that.
The lobbyists paid by this small group of ultra rich US CEOs and corp executives in turn buy out the politicians we supposedly elected to serve the interests of "the people". "The People" are not being served, but the execs in the corporations certainly are. America is no longer America, it is completely for sale to enrich a few already-rich morally bankrupt human beings who are robbing us all blind.
Reply to this comment
by michellem99-2009 September 3, 2007 3:08 PM PDT
I mean HA HA. There was a day when Amreica had pride not now. We don''t know how to build,make,run anything..We can''t educate. We are a dumb nation.
Reply to this comment
by rmsdm4 September 3, 2007 4:25 PM PDT
To justaguy11, we are a republic not a democracy. There is a difference.
Reply to this comment
by omega39-2009 September 3, 2007 4:36 PM PDT
To justaguy11, we are a republic not a democracy. There is a difference.
Posted by rmsdm4

True, it would be a lot harder to bribe 300 million people rather than the 535 that is currently required.
Reply to this comment
by wayne1231 September 3, 2007 4:50 PM PDT
Ever wonder how productivity can keep going up but nothing new appears in your bank account?

That would be because productivity is based upon the GDP which is no longer a meaningful number. The GDP as it''s calculated now is for an economy long gone.

Say a cloth mill closes down in NC and moves manafacturing to China. The money the company saves gets rolled up into GDP figures as increased productivity.

Smoke and mirrors.

If interested, Business Week had an entire issue on this about 2-3 months ago.

Reply to this comment
by incog-nito September 3, 2007 8:14 PM PDT
American workers may be more productive, but the same position in China costs 1/5 as much. Conclusion: Outsourcing wins every time.
Reply to this comment
by godseyesore-2009 September 3, 2007 8:48 PM PDT
We might be the most productive but we certainly don''t have a high standard of living to show for it, which is abysmal.
Reply to this comment
by sharncedar September 3, 2007 9:33 PM PDT
schmand31 has an interesting point. Yeah I was wondering about that since I was once in an offshoring situation where we had froeign scum replacing the American workers, and for those of us left our "productivity" nust have shot through the roof. I would do 3 times as much work, because to replace the 4 other people on the team there were now 10 or more foreign job thieves working offshore. A very, very dumb a&&hole like Alan "destroy America" Greenspan would have counted that as my productivity being much higher. It seems to be higher because 1 is doing the former work of 5. But in fact, 11 are doing the former work of 5, the world''s productivity is now much lower. Which even Alan "I love evil" Greenspan would probaly say is bad, even according to his twisted and satanic thinking.

But what the Bush butchers are good at is ignoring facts that make them uncomfortable. they create comfort through lying and intentional ignorance. And there you have it, the world''s most productive country where the ordinary citizen can''t afford a house or college tuition without an exorbiant loan they likely will never pay back. Or basic health care. Thanks, Alan Greespan.
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by chinesespy September 3, 2007 11:49 PM PDT
except black people,they are the laziest people in the world
Reply to this comment
by mcvet September 4, 2007 6:07 AM PDT
American workers may be more productive, but the same position in China costs 1/5 as much. Conclusion: Outsourcing wins every time.
Posted by incog-nito at 08:14 PM : Sep 03, 2007

Don''t you mean GREED win''s every time... IF we let it?
Reply to this comment
by mcvet September 4, 2007 6:11 AM PDT
we are a republic not a democracy. There is a difference.
Posted by rmsdm4 at 04:25 PM : Sep 03, 2007
+ report abuse

Not so... why people keep repeating this is beyond me but we CHANGED the Constitution to make it a true REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY a LONG time ago. A Republic is when the STATES appoint Representatives who then represent the Federal Government. That was the case in the begining, the elected officials of the several states got together and appointed the senators from that state. As well we had what was know then as "States Rights" where one state could ignore or overlook the rights of citizens of another state. The 14th Amendment stopped that dead in it''s tracks. A lot of VERY good and honorable men died ending States Rights and GOOD people stopped state officials from appointing senators. Sieg Heil Bush!!
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by tyjohn47 September 4, 2007 9:52 AM PDT
Let''s see we get more work done and we are ready, willing and able to put in long hours. Unfortunately, we also want pay and bennies equal to our efforts. So, in the world of stockholders and investors needing record setting profits like a drunk needs a drink or they will pull out and run away like the wind, yes, outsourcing wins!



Reply to this comment
by ianlou September 4, 2007 10:18 AM PDT
What do you do with a good horse in America??
Work it till it drops, feeding it as little as possible.

Now that''s good business!
Reply to this comment
by amycaruso September 4, 2007 10:28 AM PDT
Then why the need for all of this outsourcing who''s products pose dangers for Americans and clog up our legal system?
Reply to this comment
by juwboy September 4, 2007 10:29 AM PDT
MCVet:

It never ceases to amaze me that so many US citizens by birth would fail miserably if they were required to pass the examination that aliens must undergo when they apply for citizenship.

One of the standard questions is, "What is the difference between a republic and a democracy?"

The CORRECT answer is:

A republic is a form of government where a law is passed by elected representatives of the citizens.

A democracy is a form of government where a law is passed by a direct vote of the citizens.

So, the United States of America is a republic but is not a democracy.

Some New England towns are pure democracies, while many states, counties and cities have aspects of both systems of government.
Reply to this comment
by perception5 September 4, 2007 12:11 PM PDT
Thank you Mr. President and this great "GOP" economy for all these gains.

Wouldn''''t have the same results under a Socialist Democrat government. Especially with their mob-run union pals.

Productivity suffers when under "union" influence because mob-run unions fight change.

President Bush thanks for our great economy! Now if we could get the Democrats who control America''''s "deep blue" cities to "raise up" the poor people under "their" control we would be doing great.
Reply to this comment
by dogsoul September 4, 2007 12:45 PM PDT
''America''s increased productivity "has to do with the ICT (information and communication technologies) revolution, with the way the U.S. organizes companies, with the high level of competition in the country, with the extension of trade and investment abroad," said Jose Manuel Salazar, the ILO''s head of employment. ''

I SO love it when informed people talk about REAL variables that actually have an influence over the issues they discuss. First and foremost, the wealth of the United States is generated by way of the capitalist system & support structures in place - most are identifiable & measurable... Liberals, on the other hand, like to talk in vague sort of sentimental emotion-based nebulous mantras - and will often outright deny basic fact & fundamental concepts. They''ll say the economy is horrible when it''s great, they''ll say the US is NOT wealthy or claim it''s just the corporations & not the people, they''ll EVEN say things like GDP is a meaningless number... or desbribe economics 101 in classist marketing smippet terms like ''trickle down economics'' to try & evade simple truths... Now sure, if it''s poetry on the table for discussion - I say, liberals have AT it... but when it comes to such things as brain surgery or nat''l economic policy - I''d rather deal w/ the straight forward facts...

Reply to this comment
by sharncedar September 4, 2007 12:50 PM PDT
So, the United States of America is a republic but is not a democracy.
blah blah blah more lies
Posted by juwboy at 10:29 AM : Sep 04, 2007

What you are miscalling "democracy" is the concept of direct democracy, which exits nowhere and never will. I think you and your vicious friends use this concept of "Republic not a Democracy" as some kind of excuse for what is really Oligarchic rule, which is what you secretly believe in, and is not Democracy or Republic.

"Oligarchy (Greek %u1F48%u03BB%u03B9%u03B3%u03B1%u03C1%u03C7%u03AF%u03B1, Oligarkhma) is a form of government where political power effectively rests with a small, elite segment of society (whether distinguished by wealth, family or military powers)." (Wikipedia)
Reply to this comment
by sharncedar September 4, 2007 12:55 PM PDT
when it comes to such things as brain surgery or nat''''l economic policy - I''''d rather deal w/ the straight forward facts...

Posted by dogsoul at 12:45 PM : Sep 04, 2007

OK smart guy tell me what percent of the GDP is financial services, meaning stuff that has no reality and is just rich people creating wealth by increasing the money supply? You are so smart, let''s hear your "facts" on that one. Then tell me how much of the measurement of GDP used in this report was in fact value added in foreign countries via offshoring or products created in a foreign country but realize din the US with funny accounting. Then tell me how much of the GDP was related to phony asset bubbles, such as the "real estate industry" which is no industry at all, rather an asset bubble created by mismangement.

You may find your fabulous productivity is mostly smoke and mirrors.
Reply to this comment
by dogsoul September 4, 2007 1:32 PM PDT
"OK smart guy tell me what percent of the GDP is financial services, meaning stuff that has no reality and is just rich people creating wealth by increasing the money supply?"

Case in point, thank you for illustrating how liberals will discount such matters as financial services & real estate as literally non-existent, of course w/ the added bonus of claiming it''s some ''rich people''s'' scheme to rob the lower & middle classes... beautiful - couldn''t have timed or worded it better myself... bravo nimrod.... bravo....
Reply to this comment
by ianlou September 4, 2007 4:27 PM PDT
Headline "U.S. Workers World''s Most Productive"
And below the headline? A picture of a UAW Line worker!!!

This must be left wing propaganda; a *** Union Conspiracy!!!

No Really, It makes me feel better knowing that statistics confirm we work like dogs in the U.S.A.
I thought maybe it was just my imagination.
Reply to this comment
by klifton2-2009 September 4, 2007 5:07 PM PDT
Depends how "productivity" is measured and by whom and for whom the results are meant. In the land of the pygmies, a 4-footer is a giant!
Reply to this comment
by juwboy September 5, 2007 5:31 AM PDT
SharnCedar:

I was simply repeating the answer that applicants for US citizenship are expected to give when asked, "What is the difference between a republic and a democracy?"

Jews are out-numbered by about 50-to-1 in the US.
So, why are limp-wristed, c@cks@cking
Gentile-Americans like yourself so weak and ineffective at presenting your case?
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