Is Iraq A Failed State?

Senators With Dueling Prognoses Of Iraq And the Success of the Surge

(CBS)  Two U.S. Senators offered decidedly different perspectives on the state of Iraq's government and the prospects of success for the U.S. military's "surge" in that nation.

Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., dismissed the argument that a military push on the part of the United States could by itself ensure the political success of the Iraqi government. "Look, the idea there's going to be a strong, central government in Iraq is not going to happen in your lifetime, it's not going to happen in mine," Biden told CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer on Face the Nation. "It's the central fallacy of this administration's policy."

"The purpose of this surge was to give breathing room to acquire some political reconciliation. There is no political reconciliation. And the total number of Iraqi civilian deaths are up around Iraq, not down. The number of people fleeing their homes has gone from 50,000 a month to 100,000 a month since the surge."

Biden referred to the Biden-Levin Amendment to immediately draw down combat troops and have them out of the country by March 2008, leaving only those necessary to train the Iraqi army to protect U.S. civilians in Iraq and to deny al Qaeda the ability to occupy Anbar province. "That requires about one-fifth of the number of troops we have there."

"It is true things are better where our military is physically sitting. But it's like putting your fist in the water - the minute you take the fist out of the water, you can't even tell it was ever there. That's why there's a need for a political settlement.

"It doesn't matter how many troops we put there. Unless you have a political settlement, when we leave we're going to leave chaos behind. And you'll find you have a regional war.

"We should begin to draw down these combat troops and get them out of the civil war."

Meanwhile, Senator Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., a member of the Air Force Reserve who had just returned from Reserve duty in Iraq for the last two weeks, offered Schieffer the point of view that the surge of troops has been working and only needs more time and more troops to be successful.

"Well, the surge has worked," Graham said. "It's provided a level of security I haven't seen [in Iraq before]. We're finally getting the formula right. Anbar is just not about more troops; Anbar is about the local people, the Sunni Arabs in Anbar rejecting al Qaeda."

Graham pointed to a jump in recruits for the police force in Anbar and a diminishing of al Qaeda's influence in the same area because of the surge. "We can hold areas now because the Iraqi people are getting involved," he said.

"The government at the central level is dysfunctional, but it's not a failed state. [And] the worst thing that can happen for America is a failed state in Iraq, where Iran is the winner and al Qaeda comes back."

Graham predicted that there would be a major breakthrough in political reconciliation in Baghdad, and on the benchmarks, because of pressure being placed on Iraqi politicians by their own people at the ballot box.

"That's the best pressure that could be applied - the people themselves, frustrated with their own elected representatives, having their say. And I saw that all over Iraq.

"The Iraqi people are tired of the killing. They're tired of the dying. And that frustration is beginning to float up to the national level."

Closer to home, Graham predicted that any Senate effort to withdraw troops would fail. "Now is the time to pour it on and not withdraw - more of the same. More political, economic, military support will affect dramatically the outcome in Iraq."

Graham suggested, though, that U.S. support alone would not be all that is needed to ensure that change in Iraq is successful, "if you could have an economic surge, if the international community could come in, if the Gulf States could come in and provide economic help.

"We have a chance to change things on the ground forever in a way that would contain Iran and diminish al Qaeda. We have a long ways to go yet, but we're about to turn a corner."

[j-whitman]

Perhaps the Question should be when was it actually a state or a sovereign country ?? Is it now ?? Or if it is ever possible with foreign policies that create artificial borders,, artificial leaders & impose control over thier security & politics ---
--- Pehaps we might ask ourselves how we would like a Mexican military occupation of our country or even a Canadian one ????

[myidoncbs]

j-whitman is right, Iraq has not been a Sovereign State since the US invaded and overthrew its president, so there''s no point in questioning whether or not it''s a "failed" state.

Iraq is now an occupied territory of the United States of Bush. The occupation is is going very well, thank you. There''s no end to the amount of money Cheney can funnel to his "former" company, Haliburton, for various activities in Iraq. There''s no end to the amount of fear that the "war on terror" generates, and that fear is a fascist''s best friend. Just look at how many rights we''ve given up due to that fear! The oil thing hasn''t worked out too well, though. Gee, maybe the Iraqis don''t really understand that they''ve been "liberated"? Otherwise, why do they keep blowing up the oil wells and sabatoging the pipelines? Could it be that they aren''t too happy that Bush''s Buddies would get all that oil, and the Iraqi people would get nothing? I guess they think, "If we can''t have it, why should our enemy get it?" Who could blame them for that!

[cdfoxtrot]

Is Iraq a failed state? Well, now that the moron-in-chief removed the one person who could actually maintain order and calm in that country, yes it is a failed state. For all his faults, Saddam Hussein kept that country together and kept religious extremists in check. And under Saddam, it was a secular state - not the religion-based collection of sub-states it is degenerating into.

[chasphx]

I find pretty funny that Binden can call for the attorney general be a honest person when he himself platinrized a paper years ago. He who has not sinned may throw the first stone. Or in case of Joe do as I say not as I do which is the case with most of the people in congress. I don''t know how these people can be in office so long and not get a *** thing done. They always seem to react in place of acting first .

[radiob-2009]

Iraq? That was a "dream" and not of its citizens but of our delusional commander in chief.Its a power grab, multiple civil wars going on and when all is said and done how many states will come out of 3 or more?

[actornaught]

"the total number of Iraqi civilian deaths are up around Iraq, not down. The number of people fleeing their homes has gone from 50,000 a month to 100,000 a month since the surge."

What a horror this administration has heaped on these people.

"Well, the surge has worked," Graham said. "It''s provided a level of security I haven''t seen [in Iraq before]."

A half-truth is still a lie, a total lie. The surge has seen some inprovement in Baghdad, but it''s made it worse in the rest of Iraq, see the first quote.

This was a failed state, a failed experiment, and a victory for moslem death-mongers as soon as the looting started.

It could''ve been saved, but the Big Money Grab was on. Everybody that voted for this administration, especially for a second term, should be ashamed.

[v_1618]

THE REALLITY IS THIS..

THE UNITED STATES A GREAT INDUSTRIAL COUNTRY AND A GREAT COUNTRY IS LOST UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF EVIL FROM THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND THE INTERNATIONAL BANKERS, THEY''RE USING AND SACRIFICE THIS GREAT COUNTRY TO GO TO WAR IN A PRIVATE WAR THAT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE UNITED STATES INTEREST.

BUSH IS PUSHING THE UNITED STATES TO THE END OF HIS EMPIRE AND ALL FOR THE SAKE OF HIS GREEDY ALLIES AND COMPANIES.

THANK YOU G. BUSH FOR MAKE MORE SHINING THE WORLD WITH MURDERS.. THANK YOU G. BUSH FOR MAKE THE VALUE OF THE HOUSES CARS PRODUCTS AND FOOD MORE EXPENSIVE ALL AROUND THE WORLD ..THANKS MR. BUSH FOR GOING TO WAR AGAINST OTHER COUNTRIES FOR THE SAKE OF THIS GREEDY *** OF EUROPE AND MAKE THE GREEDY PEOPLE MORE RICHER AND THE MIDDLE CLASS AND POOR CLASS MORE DOWN .. THANK YOU MR. BUSH FOR PUSH THE UNITED STATES A GREAT COUNTRY TO HIS END.. THANK YOU BUSH YOU BAZTARD MORON....

WWW.ZEITGEISTMOVIE.COM

WWW.MONEYASDEBT.COM

[cbs_oliver]

Senator Graham, R-SC, says "The government at the central level is dysfunctional, but it''s not a failed state. [And] the worst thing that can happen for America is a failed state in Iraq, where Iran is the winner and al Qaeda comes back."

My goodness. There he goes linking Iran and al Qaeda to each other and Iraq.

The recent labeling of insurgent groups in Iraq as "al Qaeda" by the US military and US government and affiliated groups is just market branding of very diverse groups under a commonly feared and reviled name.

Additionally, the government of Iran is well known to despise al Qaeda.

Also Iran is not particularly active in Iraq. Desperate efforts to prove otherwise have not been successful.

Lindsey Graham is not a truthful man.

[melcarnahan]

And the worst thing that can happen for America is a failed state in Iraq, where Iran is the winner and al Qaeda comes in and... Oops!

[libsluvsuvs]

Posted by CBS_Oliver at 02:39 PM : Sep 02, 2007
+ report abuse
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creating a democracy in middle east is not an easy task. Time, effort and tragically blood is needed to make it happen. There are too many factions opposed to this type of democratic environment..its infectious.
However, our permanent presence will not do to it. We need to creat a force strong enough to hold back the tide..pretty much like in israel.
Iran has not desire to be buddies with "al queda". I am just irritated that anything that happens in middle east has to be "buddies". The share the same common interest..a bigger imprint of thier influence. I would not doubt that when we move out..iran with fight the insurgency for total control.
and when would this relationship be obvious enough fro you??? when moore makes a movie about it??or Jon Stewart validates it?? these endless stream of violence has to come from somewhere..NOT UNLESS IT WAS THE LIBERALS WHO ARE SUPPLYING THESE INSURGENCY.

[feelfree1]

"Why we stand for immediate withdrawal of all U.S. troops from Iraq"

"THE U.S. occupation of Iraq has not liberated the Iraqi people, but has made life worse for most Iraqis."

"Tens of thousands of U.S. service people have been killed or maimed, and hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis have lost their lives as a result of the U.S. invasion in 2003, the ongoing occupation, and the violence unleashed by them."

"Iraq''s infrastructure has been destroyed, and U.S. plans for reconstruction abandoned. There is less electricity, less clean drinking water, and more unemployment today than before the U.S. invasion."

"All of the justifications initially provided by the U.S. for waging war on Iraq have been exposed as lies; the real reasons for the invasion %u2014 to control Iraq''s oil reserves and to increase U.S. strategic influence in the region %u2014 now stand revealed."

"The Bush administration has insisted again and again that stability, democracy, and prosperity are around the next bend in the road. ..The U.S. says that it cannot withdraw its military because Iraq will collapse into civil war if it does. But the U.S. has deliberately stoked sectarian divisions in its ongoing attempt to install a U.S.-friendly regime, thus driving Iraq towards civil war."

"We call on the U.S. to get out of Iraq %u2014 not in six months, not in a year, but now."

www.ipetitions.com/petition/OutNow

[edward1975-2009]

We''re dealing with a culture far older than ours, whose base is tribal law. They neither want democracy nor understand it. They are tied to tradition much like the Far East. We will not change that. Time to understand that we failed in our strategy and execution. And neither party has a solution for what ails the Middle East. Which is evident in their flip flop politics.

[klifton2-2009]

"we are turning the corner," "we are turning things around." What these tired remarks really mean is that we do not know what is going on, we do not have a clue, your guess is as good as mine.... and blah blah blah. In short, we are $screwed#.

[radiob-2009]

Dig a moat around Iraq
Take the dirt and sand fill in New Orleans
Take the alligators and crocodiles and fill in the moat.

Any other problems?

[actornaught]

libsluvsuvs, i had thought to respond with something evenhanded, even tho'' your broken english is hard to read.

BUT, your last statement just flags you as a jerk, nevermind...

[sevenveils]

Iraq is a failed state. When the US occupied Germany and Japan after WW2 every aspect of the these countries government were scrutinized and tweaked with US oversight. In Iraq, this is not the case and as a result the majority of politicians running Iraq are allied with Iran.

Iran is recognized world wide as the heart of religious terrorism and to let Iran have any aspect of control over a Iraq; whose freedom was paid for with the blood of American brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers is absolutely unacceptable.

The Iraq government should be reigned in again. If it takes one or two "do-overs" to get Iraqi politics right, then so be it.

[seven-pesos]

in the south a nonbeliever cannot win public office.

even if he is the most qualified.

the church will not allow it.

in the south religion is not about christ...

in the south religion is about politics.

and the church controls the politics.

ha,ha,ha.

and the southern church loves bush, war, hate and false religion.

ha,ha,ha,

that''s the south for you, folks!

[ubrew12]

cdfoxtrot said: "under Saddam, it was a secular state - not the religion-based collection of sub-states it is degenerating into." Too true. Basically, in taking out Saddam, we took out an effective deterrent to islamic extremism, including Al-Qaida. Only Bush would do something that stupid post-911.

[seven-pesos]

after bush and his southern christian base have lost the war in iraq...

they will procede to lose the war in iran.

after the war in iran is lost, america will be too weak to lose anymore wars.

the russians will obtain hegemony in europe and the middle east

and the whole world will be laughing at america.

thanks, bush... thanks, christian creeps...thanks, confederate south...thanks, republican snakes!

ha,ha,ha.

that''s the south for you, folks!

[ubrew12]

CBS_Oliver said: "the government of Iran is well known to despise al Qaeda." Well, duh, since one is Shia and the other Sunni. However, Graham is preaching to the group of Americans for whom they are all jihadists, screaming for the blood of American babies. This group isn''t into the subtleties.

[j-whitman]

Is Iraq a failed state ??? ---- I guess if you consider failing 3rd grade over, & over, & over -- Then of coarse it is ---- Bush lovers would argue that point.

[rafterman1]

84 US soldiers and almost 1800 Iraqis died in August. It''s been over four years now. No one can possibly say that we are "winning" in Iraq. Not with those casualty numbers after four+ years.

[mcvet]

And neither party has a solution for what ails the Middle East. Which is evident in their flip flop politics.
Posted by Edward1975 at 03:05 PM : Sep 02, 2007
+ report abuse

I beg to differ. Bill Clinton actually had these people TALKING to each other and Jimmy Carter had Egypt and Isreal reach an agreement. We DO have statesmen or Stateswomen who can and DO get people together who do treat people with respect. By invading this country and imposing our beliefs and OUR system on these people we not only insulted them we created a Civil War. You can NOT get people to respect each other and honor their beliefs at the point of a gun. That''s why the vast majority of the world looks upon Bush as a Fascist..that''s what fascist do. Sieg Heil Bush

[seven-pesos]

the south makes big talk about winning the war in iraq.

the south has lost every war they ever started...

davis, johnson, bush...

all slave state losers.

the religious, christian south is all talk.

alligator mouth...canary azz!

ha,ha,ha.

war, hate, arrogance, christian creeps, republican snakes...

nothing good comes out of the south.

Gee, the criminals that have blundered us into this nearly 5 year old disaster are now finally getting it right and success will result if just stick with them. That''s not optimism, it''s delusion.

[micma-2009]

Iraq was a lost cause when Bu$hco allowed it to slip into a civil war. There is no military solution and the Iraqis don''t have the will for a political solution. It''s all over but the denying.

[seven-pesos]

white trash, republican christian south...bush country!

who''s the next creep those idiot southern snakes will try to put in the white house?

war, hate, arrogance, reborns & rednecks...

that''s the south for you, folks!

[seven-pesos]

not one southern state will vote for hillary...

that''s because hillary refuses to bend to those phony chistian creeps that control the south.

war, hate, christian creeps, republican snakes...

that''s the south for you, folks!

[armandbeni]

The war in Iraq was won when we dragged its leader out of a hole. War is about destruction and we did that very well. This concept of bombing the hell out of a country then fixing it and installing a government is not war, it''s a fantacy. Democracy is formed by the people seeking it, the people have to have the will to make it work, it is not formed by young soldiers from a far away land. I was not against the war until it was transformed into nation building. We should have stopped when we were ahead and left Iraq in ruins. If the people of Iraq, once rid of their tyrant decided to rebuild as a democracy that would have been great, if they tolorated a new tyrant who wanted to treaten the west, then we could have revisited and put them back into the dark ages where tyrants and warlords belong.
If the USA insists that we build governments then I believe our armed forces are not equipped to do it. We should send Congress, they''re the experts and they aren''t doing much these days anyway.

[j-whitman]

I like the Dixie Chicks, Southern Fried Chicken, & Biscuits & Gravy

[radiob-2009]

Is a Iraq a failed state? Cmon now its Disney world, with lots of "rides" courtesy of suicide bombers, full of colours, friendly hosts (as long as your back is not turned)magical sounds that go off at any time any place, dancing in the streets (to move away from flying debri) Flowers(for the dead).Reserve a room bring the family and thank Bush/Malki/Sadr for their"Disney World". Round trips are not currently available.

[tnichlsn]

When are these moronic GOP sheep going to realize Iran won this war the day Rumsfeld forgot to secure those weapons depots? The war has been over for years now except for the needless bloodletting. The longer we stay there the more nails in the coffin of the GOP. A good number of American voters are a bit ''slow'', but not many are so slow as to not see the writing that''s been on the wall since 2005... In the end, the Sunnis will be extinguished unless the Saudis intervene, and the Kurds will have their own state, which will **** our friends the Turks off no end. I wonder if the arab states will continue to bend over backwards for their good friends the Bushes and the GOP???

[seven-pesos]

in the south christian love is not christ''s love.

in the south christianity is all about politics and power.

if jesus could see what christianity in the south has devolved to...

jesus would surely cry.

war, hate, christian creeps, republican snakes...

nothing good comes out of the south.

[j-whitman]

I got a laugh out of Alabama''s Shelby this morning.... "You can wald down the streets of Fallujah" ----
---- I want to see him even try to stand in the streets 15 minutes after we turn over to Iraqi''s & say that.

[radiob-2009]

Ole Seven he does not like the blues, rock, country, jazz or folk music he hates the south where most of our modern day music originated from. He sure has no knowledge of the history of American arts or music, or food. Ernest Hemiway,William Faulkner,Captain John Smith,Caroline Gordon, Tennesse Williams,Margaret Mitchell,Harper Lee,Truman Capote, John Grisham,John Berendt,Tom Wolfe just to name a few writers.

[seven-pesos]

history shows what happens when southerners get the power in america.

the south has a dark and sordid past.

bush is just the latest snake to come out of that most militaristic and extremist region of america.

the south never does good for america.

always war, hate, phony christian creeps and crooked republican snakes.

ha,ha,ha.

that''s the south for you, folks!

[j-whitman]

usmcvn,,,,, Yep Yep Yep Yep Yep Yep Yep Yep --- Sure enough, no doubt about it.

[b1lowry]

Is Iraq a failed state? Yes. Next question.

[seven-pesos]

the south will vote for the candidate that campaigns on christian values...

it doesn''t matter if this candidate is the best qualified.

the south thinks that the most religious is the best qualified candidate.

that''s how america got bush...

ha,ha,ha.

what a bunch of christian creeps that control the politics in the south.

ha,ha,ha....anti-american confederate creeps.

that''s the south for you, folks!

[bluestardad]

LINDSEY GRAHAM WONT EVEN BE REELECTED IN HIS HOME STATE TO SENATOR....

HE IS A BLIND JOCK STRAP OF THE TEXAS DICKTATER!
OR SHOULD I SAY SUPPORTER...STANDING IN THE DARK TELLING EVERYONE IT IS DAYLIGHT!

THE DEMOCRATS MUST SHOW SOME BACKBONE AND NOT FUND THIS WAR!

[seven-pesos]

being the poorest region in america the south has no economical or financial power.

the south only has that religious power....

christian sheep by the millions.

and religion has nothing to do with christ.

religion is all about power...power and politics.

ha,ha,ha.

christ would cry if he could see the south.

nothing good comes out of the south.

[drummer94]

Sen Graham:"That''s the best pressure that could be applied-the people themselves, frustrated with their own elected representatives, having their say." Oh, he was talking about Iraq. I thought his conass was talking about America!

[sioux4life1]

Is Iraq a failed State? I though geographically it was a country. Stupid me.

[gkc99]

Yes, and very handily so for the neocons, who WANT Iraq to be a failed state, since a docile puppet state is out of the question. Anyone who can read must realize that the Iraqis will never be a docile puppet state. Therefore, to maintain permanent neocon fascist control of Iraq, a permanent condition of disability must be maintained. Otherwise the multinational corporations won''t be able to maintain the control they have at least temporarily achieved through the efforts of THEIR puppet, George W. Bushit, manipulated at the hands of Bushit''s Balls, Dicky ("Darth") Cheney and the people he represents (and a hint: it''s not the American people).

[seven-pesos]

america has a knack for sticking its nose in other country''s business...

that comes from those southern religious folks that are always sticking their noses in your business.

bush loving religious war making south...

the closest thing to fascism on the north american continent.

ha,ha,ha.

war, hate, reborns, republican christian snakes...

nothing good comes out of the south.

[j-whitman]

Sioux4Life1,,, Listening to Miss North Carolina its a shortage of maps in America... I don''t know if you heard her... She sounded just like Bush describing what sovereign is.

[seven-pesos]

i heard that southern lady make a fool of herself.

is she the best and brightest of that state of north carolina?

[drummer94]

Good thing she''s from North and not South Carolina or ''ol seven would be goin ballistic. lol

[cbs_oliver]

From my point of view one of the most significant aspects of this story is the effort made by Senator Lindsey Graham to link Iran to al Qaeda as opposition to the US in Iraq.

Some UK sources indicate that the US is planning a massive 3 day strike against Iran taking out over 1000 targets and destroying Iran''s military.

It appears that Lindsey Graham is making preparations for that.

It seems that Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda are not the only crazy killers in the world.

[seven-pesos]

news item:..

wrong way anti-war protesters flee to canada to evade bush''s expected draft.

unfortunately they end up in south carolina where they are forced to join the army and are shipped off to iraq.

they were brought back yesterday in coffins.

hallelujah, more martyrs for bush and his christian supporters.

ha,ha,ha.

war, hate, phony christian snakes...

nothing good comes out of the south!